John 12.24to28

Here is the website to more information on this topic: 

https://www.befree2023.com

I do not know the organizer and I am not part of any organized protest movements, but I do know that just like some people go door-to-door to talk about religion while others go door-to-door to sell vacuums or to take a census...so similarly, not all who go to the Capitol go for the same reasons or the have the same motivations.

The "signage" section on the "be free" website appears to be all slogans that just bear witness to the truth about sketchy stuff going on in the organization. Jehovah's witnesses are commanded by Jesus to bear witness to the truth, even to those in high stations. While it seems many who consider themselves to be "ex-jw" will attend, in essence the messages (according to that website) to be shared could easily be shared by those who still have faith in Jehovah God and obey what is written in the Bible.

Generally speaking, going to a beast to lobby for change doesn't work well. However, there have been instances recorded in the Bible where Jehovah used random people going to the king to make something happen. Haman, though a pagan, was in the courtyard when the king of Medo-Persia had a dream. Jehovah used Haman's words to reward Mordecai. Esther's requests to the king worked well. Exiled Daniel was around when the king of Babylon had a dream, and Jehovah used him to help the king understand a situation. Paul spoke to governmental authorities frequently. 

Even if only a handful of 45 people show up, what of it? Numbers don't matter with Jehovah, if He decides to use it for something. The Bible shows that the US/UK breathes life into the UN for the attack on Babylon the Great to start at the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. It isn't wrong to bear witness to the authorities regarding the sins of the organization. We're going to have to keep bearing witness to the truth during the entire tribulation anyway.

Will others show up who will not adhere to what is outlined on that website? Quite likely. In the Kingdom Halls, many also show up who do not follow what is written in God's Word. If any true Christians participated in such an event as what is described on the "be free" website, they would have to be extremely careful to obey the command of the Christ by not taking part in violence: "If anyone has an ear, let him hear.  If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones."

Yesterday at the assembly, it was like a little case study or experiment for whether "disfellowshipping" as currently practiced has Jehovah's backing. (I already know it doesn't, but this was just more evidence it doesn't.) 

Very soon, those people are going to know that Jehovah doesn't support the false Babylonish doctrines in the organization, and those people who embrace the false doctrines will repent, hopefully. "They will have to know I have loved you." They will have to know that Jesus loves so many of the "shunned" ones who are labeled "disfellowshipped" or "apostate" or "rejected" or "worldly". 

(There is a summary of our day at the assembly in the "Status Updates" here...

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/profile/20132-audreyannanana/   )

"The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."

The unscriptural manmade "law" of disfellowshipping with its kangaroo court and OD book and elder book regulations and flowcharts and so on, those types of disfellowshipping things are against God's spirit. Jehovah is a witness by means of His spirit.

(The real type of "shunning" was when I turned around and walked away from the mean elders. Jehovah says "shun" foolish debates and regarding fake elders "from these turn away".)

The friends who didn't know I was "disfellowshipped" by the laws of men, they talked to me yesterday and I talked to them. The spirit of Jehovah was on us - there was love and joy and peace, all the fruitage of the spirit. The holy spirit was not "shunning" me. The holy spirit was not "grieved" because the friends were talking to me even though the wolf-elders made an ungodly decree about shunning me. Jehovah didn't back their decree. Jehovah was a witness that their decree is bogus. Jehovah's holy spirit is from Jehovah.

"The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children."

"...while God joined in bearing witness...with the holy spirit distributed according to his will."

"When the helper comes that I will send you from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which comes from the Father, that one will bear witness about me;  and you, in turn, are to bear witness..."

"And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also. And he made no distinction at all between us and them, but purified their hearts by faith.  So why are you now making a test of God by imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?  On the contrary, we have faith that we are saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus in the same way that they are."

The disfellowshipping doctrine is antichrist, against Jesus' teachings; it is from Babylon the Great, false religion. It doesn't belong in Jehovah's House.

Many elders are kind, but some elders are wolf-elders. The rotten fruitage of the wolf-elders at the assembly proved that they didn't have Jehovah's holy spirit. They had the spirit of the world.

"...egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another."

"...hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects,  envy..." Additionally, the same elders that disfellowshipped me for obeying Jehovah and being a faithful witness are the ones who approved of those in the congregation committing adultery, drunkenness, fraud, and other serious wrongdoing.

What is the point? The time is very near for Babylon the Great to be destroyed by the United Nations. There are many kind, sheep-like, loving people in the different religions. There are also many kind sheep-like, loving people who are atheists. Jehovah is not partial. He can see beyond the labels and the masks. Jehovah knows where they are, and at the appointed time He will gather them together. He has left His Name on Jehovah's Witnesses. That will be the basic organizational structure that He will gather the sheep to after He cleans it for the sake of His Name. (Right now, Jehovah's Witnesses are giving Jehovah a bad reputation, but He will remedy that shortly.) "Any branch not bearing fruit will be cut down and thrown in the fire." The parts of the organization that are family-like and not institutional, the parts that are loving and not business-like, the parts that are real and good - those will remain. The wheat will remain. The weeds will be removed. 

When all the Babylonish institutions are destroyed, the corporation parts of Jehovah's Witnesses will be destroyed. The false teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses will be removed. The people who Jehovah can work with, who respond to the holy spirit, they will remain, but the Kingdom Halls and the Bethels and the properties and the JW ClergyClassSystem will be gone. Those will be the first things to go. It will be like a shark feeding frenzy - once the first shark gets a taste of that blood, there is no stopping the frenzy. There will be nothing left of the physical part of the corporation. The destruction by means of the nations will be fast and complete. "Like a millstone thrown into the sea."

Some people may get caught up in the spirit of the world during that time and join in the melee. That would be very unwise. Jehovah is Real, and He will protect His Real witnesses.

I know what I would do if someone tried to attack my kids. Jehovah is Way Bigger, and I have seen Him protect me and my kids already from some outstandingly bigger forces than us. Jehovah allows suffering, but He also has a line that His enemies dare not cross. He also has an Appointed Time to reverse this whole mess.

Please, keep faith in Jehovah. The days ahead are going to be terrible. Jehovah knows those who belong to Him. He knows the heart. Don't be afraid. Once it starts, it will happen fast - the tribulation will be 3 1/2 years. Some who are "asleep" in faith will see that Jehovah is real. Some will join Jehovah's witnesses and some will oppose. "And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt. And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever."

Jehovah is calling you to His side. May you respond to Jehovah's love and love Jehovah and live on for time indefinite, beloved ones. 

"He Causes To Become."

11 hours ago, boyle said:

reverse

@boyle  - I'm not the one going backwards, lovey...

"Above all the things that you guard, safeguard your heart, 

For out of it are the sources of life.  

Put crooked speech away from you, 

And keep devious talk far away from you.  

Your eyes should look straight ahead, 

Yes, fix your gaze straight ahead of you.  

Smooth out the course of your feet, 

And all your ways will be sure.  

Do not incline to the right or the left. 

Turn your feet away from what is bad."

11 hours ago, boyle said:

psychology

(Best to stay away from all that twisted psych-ick stuff anyways...)

"Do not turn to the spirit mediums, and do not consult fortune-tellers so as to become unclean by them. I am Jehovah your God."

11 hours ago, boyle said:

You would have to prove your perfection before you can point out the faults of others that would be meaningful to Jehovah.

Glad to hear you believe in Jehovah. That's progress in the right direction. 🙂

11 hours ago, boyle said:

So, keep using the word twist as many times you feel comfortable with. Audrey

As you wish...

Since I'm a sister and you like to call me a twisted, thought you might like the lyrics to this song by Twisted Sister:

"We've got the right to choose, and

There ain't no way we'll lose it

This is our life, this is our song

We'll fight the powers that be, just

Don't pick on our destiny, 'cause

You don't know us, you don't belong"

I will always choose Jehovah over Satan. Satan doesn't know us, and he doesn't belong with us. Satan has no power over Jesus. Jesus is in union with Jehovah, and when we take Jesus' hand it doesn't matter how imperfect we are - Jehovah is the one who carries the load for us. Jehovah always wins. Praise Jehovah.

The wicked one doesn't belong with us, but there are many lost ones who will repent and join Jehovah. I hope you are among them, @boyle 🥰

"And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."

Hope you have a nice day! 💖

28 minutes ago, boyle said:

Can you prove you're a "perfect" being in order for your words, can then be true about you being equal to Christ?

As usual, @boyle, you twist everything.

I am extremely and utterly imperfect.

I have faith in the ransoming blood of my Lord, the Christ, the head of the congregation. He is the Master and, happily, I am one of many of his slaves. Jehovah is My Father and My God.

Jesus never made himself equal to God, and neither do I. I know my Lord, and he knows me. He is superior to all of us. He is my King. He is the one that gives me strength even though I am exhausted and lowly and weak.

You, @boyle, are just like someone else I read about who lied a lot.

"This is why the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God."

28 minutes ago, boyle said:

I seriously doubt the GB knows everyone in the Org. What makes you think they held a special interest in your behalf? The watchtower receives much unsolicited mail by former and disfellowshiped members along with apostates with time in their hands. Usually, the GB has workers to reject mail that is deemed nonsense. Just like spam mail.

I wrote to the governing body many times for several years before being "disfellowshipped" for telling on sketchy stuff the elders were doing. I wrote to Bethel many times asking for help with the shenanigans going on in my circuit. I wrote to over fifty different "leaders" in the organization by name, repeatedly. "We love you very much" is what they say on the videos, but it's not real. I begged them for help and sent them evidence of the things going on, evidence from multiple witnesses, including the things the elders said and approved of in emails that were clearly serious sins against both scripture and against what is written the elder book and the OD book. Those men didn't care. They are not ignorant or innocent victims of pressure and heavy workload. They know what they are doing.

They disfellowshipped me for keeping my integrity to Jehovah. 

One of Mark Sanderson's secretaries is from my congregation. His father is one of the elders here. When we used to visit Bethel, we ate lunch with him and also his dad took us on extra tours of the video department. The week my "disfellowshipping" was announced, that's when Mark Sanderson returned my letter with a big red "REJECTED" stamp on it. (After that when I sent letters, I didn't include a return address. I am sure they probably just throw them away anyway, so I started sending postcards. It's cheaper.)

28 minutes ago, boyle said:

The more you post, the more you appear to sound like witness. That's an interesting turn of events.

You can believe fairy-tales if you want, @boyle. You'll see how that works out for you. I am going to be busy the rest of this evening, so if you want to keep twisting stuff and being yucky, go ahead - Jehovah is listening. I'll be excusing myself from the thread for now. 

"Jehovah will go out like a mighty man. 

He will awaken his zeal like a warrior. 

He will shout, yes, he will let out a war cry; 

He will show himself mightier than his enemies."

"My strength and my might is Jah, since he has become my salvation. 

This is my God, and I will praise him; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 

Jehovah is a powerful warrior. 

Jehovah is his name."

Praise Jehovah😌🌷

1 hour ago, boyle said:

4 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Just like Jehovah has a better chariot, so He also has better armor for His soldiers.

Yet a soldier that behaves like a soldier gets kicked out, lol! This doesn't make any sense coming from you.

2 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses. Jehovah is the One who invented humor. 😃 Jehovah is our Refuge. We will be Happy in His Arms.

Does this mean you are in good standing with the Org? The way you disparage the GB, I seriously doubt you are. Care to prove me wrong?

Jehovah hasn't kicked me out of His congregation, the body of Christ, just like He didn't kick out my Lord, Christ Jesus.

Jesus was kicked out of the physical organization by wicked apostates on the elder body. The same one that kicked out my Lord is the one who kicked me out. 

Jesus showed who their father was.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was necessary to do, yet not to disregard the other things.  Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel! 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of greediness and self-indulgence.  Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may also become clean. 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness.  In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you build the graves of the prophets and decorate the tombs of the righteous ones, and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have shared with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’  Therefore, you are testifying against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.  Well, then, fill up the measure of your forefathers. 

“Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna?  For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,  so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.  Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

When the "org" "disfellowships" Jehovah's kids, they are filling up the measure of their forefathers.

Jehovah's witnesses are not a business corporation. Those men have made it a cave of robbers. Jehovah sending Jesus soon to remedy things.

Praise Jehovah.

How did Jesus address the wicked scribes and wicked Pharisees? "Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me.  Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to my word.  You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.  Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me.  Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me?  The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God."

The governing body "rejected" me because I stood fast by my Lord Christ Jesus. They literally sent back one of my many many letters with a red stamp on it marked "rejected". I came to them in Jehovah's Name and in company with Christ.

(It wasn't me they were rejecting.)

Some of the Pharisees knew they messed up big when Jesus was resurrected. It will be the same when Jehovah gathers all His faithful sheep and removes the wolves from the organization that is bearing His Name. Jehovah will act for the sake of His Holy Name, and for the sake of His Beloved Little Sheep. Praise Jehovah.

21 minutes ago, boyle said:

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

if the governing body doesn't know that Jesus didn't take the throne in 1914

Can you prove this? It appears you are making another absolute statement as though you have concrete evidence, so let's hear it.

@boyle, Jesus is the one who makes it clear by means of the holy spirit, the helper.

"He answered them: “I told you already, and yet you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? You do not want to become his disciples also, do you?”

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

  … it is Not worth $675.

FD$ = WTBT$ = $🤑🖤

"Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him.  So he said to them: “You are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight."

(I used to donate faithfully every week to the "Faithful and Discreet Slave", but since they tried to cut me off from the organization and I saw their true colors now I only send them donations in coconut, since I heard they like coconut. Speaking of colors, I'll be wearing a coconut colored outfit at the assembly tomorrow - a dress that is coconut colors and some coconut smelling lotion, just to show support for coconut lovers in my family everywhere...)

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses. Jehovah is the One who invented humor. 😃 Jehovah is our Refuge. We will be Happy in His Arms.

"Why are the nations agitated

And the peoples muttering an empty thing?  

The kings of the earth take their stand 

And high officials gather together as one 

Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.  

They say: “Let us tear off their shackles 

And throw off their ropes!”  

The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; 

Jehovah will scoff at them.  

At that time he will speak to them in his anger 

And terrify them in his burning anger, 

Saying: “I myself have installed my king 

On Zion, my holy mountain.”  

Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; 

He said to me: “You are my son; 

Today I have become your father.  

Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance 

And the ends of the earth as your possession.  

You will break them with an iron scepter, 

And you will smash them like a piece of pottery.”  

So now, you kings, show insight; 

Accept correction, you judges of the earth.  

Serve Jehovah with fear, 

And rejoice with trembling.  

Honor the son, or God will become indignant 

And you will perish from the way, 

For His anger flares up quickly.  

Happy are all those taking refuge in Him."💖

12 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Well…. WHATEVER Nebuchadnezzar’s toes mean  … it is Not worth $675.

Amen! 😁

"And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

So, how did the King use that information?

How can I make practical use of that information … I mean …. What? Buy a sky blue UN army helmet?

Nah, I'd definitely skip out on the sky blue UN army helmet. Just like Jehovah has a better chariot, so He also has better armor for His soldiers...(Praise Jehovah.🥰) I like how the illustrators in the organization portray it:

"Stand firm, therefore, with the belt of truth fastened around your waist, wearing the breastplate of righteousness,  and having your feet shod in readiness to declare the good news of peace.  Besides all of this, take up the large shield of faith, with which you will be able to extinguish all the wicked one’s burning arrows.  Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word,  while with every form of prayer and supplication you carry on prayer on every occasion in spirit. And to that end stay awake, constantly making supplication in behalf of all the holy ones.  Pray also for me, that the words may be given to me when I open my mouth, so that I may be able to speak boldly in making known the sacred secret of the good news,  for which I am acting as an ambassador in chains, and that I may speak about it with boldness, as I ought to speak."

"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.  For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.  Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.  But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves,  for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness. So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses.  For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night.  But as for us who belong to the day, let us keep our senses and put on the breastplate of faith and love and the hope of salvation as a helmet because God assigned us, not to wrath, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  He died for us, so that whether we stay awake or are asleep, we should live together with him.  Therefore, keep encouraging one another and building one another up, just as you are in fact doing."

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

So, how did the King use that information?

How can I make practical use of that information … I mean …. What? Buy a sky blue UN army helmet?

You have three children in the truth, correct?

Here are some screenshots from two of the most recent videos posted on jw.org.

The governing body is saying that they are the voice of Jesus.

They are also saying that obeying direction from the branch is the way to be saved in the days ahead.

They did a partial quote of a Bible verse: "Your strength will be in showing trust." The part they left out is the trust in Jehovah part. They are saying "trust in the men of the governing body because they are Jesus' voice."

They are wrong about the governing body being Jesus' voice. They are liars. The way to be saved is to trust in Jehovah. Jehovah is obviously not using the governing body as Jesus' voice because they don't even know who the toes on the dream image are, and yet some little unimportant disfellowshipped person from nowhere can understand because Jesus doesn't give the spirit of understanding based on a theocratic resume, that Jehovah may get the glory and Jehovah may be praised.

When the branch gives direction that is in harmony with God's Word, then great, yes, listen to that specific direction that is in harmony with God's Word. "Commit your way to Jehovah" is good advice. Following the scriptures is always good advice.

(There is an assembly scheduled for tomorrow in my circuit. It is called "Jehovah's United Family". I am attending because they are my family, those people that are shunning me. They are foolish for shunning me, (I have kept my integrity) but they are just ignorantly listening to the doctrines of men, and someday they will repent. May Jehovah give me strength. I am attending because it is not unreasonable for men taking the lead to schedule such assemblies, even though I know half of what they teach will be a lie and no one there will talk to me because they will label me worthy of shunning. The men taking the lead are not united nor do they unite families. Jehovah's Word unites families. I do not take my children to the local congregation even though they ended the trespassing ban because I cannot stomach them learning that it is okay to talk to the children but not their own mother, I went once to show I could do it with Jehovah's strength and sang confidently and refused to say "Amen" to the prayer, but I will not go to the local congregation again until the wolves who disfellowshipped me are gone. I will go to the assembly, please pray for me.)

But if the branch gives direction that is not in harmony with God's Word, like to listen to imperfect men ahead of Jehovah's Word, then no, one would not want to listen to that direction. That direction is dangerous. God's Word is the Source of Truth, not the manmade doctrines and decrees of those who brazenly disregard God's Word. "There is no wisdom, nor discernment, nor counsel in opposition to Jehovah. The horse is prepared for the day of battle, But salvation belongs to Jehovah."

If the governing body doesn't even know that the toes of the Nebuchadnezzar dream image are the UN, if the governing body doesn't know that Jesus didn't take the throne in 1914, if the governing body doesn't know that accepting blood fractions is a sin, then how are they going to give direction that helps the congregation during the great tribulation?

@Pudgy, they are the blind leading the blind. They are going to fall into a pit.

When the great tribulation starts, your kids are going to be in shock. They are going to be afraid. They are going to go through a difficult time emotionally because much of what they put their trust in will seem to be shaken. They love Jehovah, yes, but their ways of worshipping Him have been all mixed up with worship of the governing body. We know what that is like - waking up. It's not easy, and it takes time to come to grips with the fact that the governing body has been lying on many things all these years.

A lot of people are going to wake up all at once and they're going to need help not losing faith in Jehovah.

I'm afraid you can't retire, @Pudgy. You're going to be the one who has to help your family because your knowledge of truth is "better" than theirs is. You have practical wisdom, and you have scriptural understanding. They're going to need you. You tell the truth, and they're going to need to hear it.

Summary: Practical application - "Then he said to them: “That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.”"

"Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our trials so that we may be able to comfort others in any sort of trial with the comfort that we receive from God."

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

A decade and a half ago, when my children were teenagers, I had to work so I sent them to an assembly somewhere, a three day assembly that cost me $675 before it was all over.

When they finally got home late Sunday night, still in their suits, I asked them what did they learn? The reply was “oh…… Oh…… Oh yeah, we learned that …. you know …. what we used to think we knew about Nebuchadnezzar‘s Statue’s toes… Well it’s an entirely different explanation now, and it’s …. And at that point my eyes glazed over and I had a vision of US currency flapping like a bird, with six $100 bills and more into the night sky.

I am afraid I busted out laughing and almost fell off of my chair, and it’s only a vision of almost $700 evaporating that kept me I’m having a bad case of giggle fits.

@Pudgy and Nathanael, cut of the same cloth...

"But Na·thanʹa·el said to him: “Can anything good come out of Nazʹa·reth?” Philip said to him: “Come and see." Jesus saw Na·thanʹa·el coming toward him and said about him: “See, truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”"

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

It is written, "A calm heart gives life to the body" and "Who of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his life span?"

"What, me worry?"

(No wonder Alfred E. Neuman never ages!)

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

When they finally got home late Sunday night, still in their suits, I asked them what did they learn? The reply was “oh…… Oh…… Oh yeah, we learned that …. you know …. what we used to think we knew about Nebuchadnezzar‘s Statue’s toes… Well it’s an entirely different explanation now, and it’s ….

(I'd say I hate to tell you, @Pudgy, but...)

The toes in the Daniel chapter 2 Nebuchadnezzar dream image thing are actually the United Nations.😃

"“And just as you saw the feet and the toes to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay.  And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile.  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay. 

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

It is so good to hear from you, @Witness!

I am sorry I misunderstood the reason why you weren't commenting. I hope you can figure out a way to comment again soon. Thank you for sharing what you think about.

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@Witness said: 

There is something that you should consider.  The "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" is not the UN (if that is what you said).  Remember, the anointed are the spiritual Temple of God (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  The scriptures define "holy place" for us - Exod 26:33; Lev 16:20; 1 Kings 8:10, and many more.  Just type in "holy place".

Here is what Jesus said about "holy place" as recorded in Matthew 24:15:

"Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment)..."

Notice that Jesus didn't say "as spoken about by the apostle Paul" or "as spoken about by Moses" or "as spoken about by Ezekiel". 

(Of course, Paul wasn't a Christian yet anyway...) but the point is that many different Bible writers talked about a "holy place". Paul talked about anointed Christians being a living temple, a holy place for God to inhabit. Ezekiel talked about a holy place that was defiled, the temple of old in ancient Jerusalem. Ezekiel also talked about a future temple. Moses talked about the physical tabernacle.

How do we know whether Jesus was talking about a physical "holy place" or a spiritual "holy place"? Do we have to guess?

No. We do not have to guess. Jesus made it clear. "As spoken about in Daniel the prophet." 

Daniel did not talk about any spiritual temple holy place made up of anointed ones. Not even a little bit. Daniel's visions were about world powers and physical people on the earth and the places where they worshipped. When Daniel talked about things going on in heaven, it was always in the context of a dream or a vision - he never talked about physical people on earth "being" a holy place.

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@Witness said: 

The "disgusting thing" is also called the "abomination standing in the holy place".  This also, is defined by God's word.  An "abomination" that is committed in God's "holy place", is either through the presence of idols, or by "foreigners" entering the Temple, and the actions related to it.  Ezekiel 8:6,9; Ezek 44:6-9.  The elder body is the "disgusting thing"/abomination standing in the holy place.  They have replaced God's priests and act as if they are making sacrifices to God.

Similarly, as regards the word "abomination" or the words "disgusting thing", again, the context shows what Jesus was talking about. "As spoken about by Daniel the prophet."

Daniel never talked about an "abomination" or "disgusting thing" being apostate elders in the congregation. 

(True, Paul talked about the abomination of lawless ones sitting as gods in the temple of God, but those verses in Thessalonians are about the lawless apostates taking the lead in the organization, not about the UN. Those apostates in the organization will be removed when religion is attacked, because they will not be protected by Jehovah's angels. Jesus said in Revelation that when he comes he would remove such "Jezebels" - those who misuse their authority in the congregation in order to do wickedness.)

In Daniel chapters 7,8,11, and 12, Daniel references "abominations" or "disgusting things" and all of them are talking about physical governments doing something to a physical holy place or places or physical worshippers. Taken in harmony with what John said in Revelation, the disgusting thing spoken of in Daniel is the United Nations.

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@Witness said:

Again, the temple IS the anointed "living stones".  Anyone not anointed as "Israel", is a spiritual "Gentile".  (Rom 9:6-8)

@Witness, even if the "holy place" of Matthew 24:15 was the anointed, then what you are saying still doesn't make any sense. Some supposed "Gentiles" can't go into an anointed person and interfere with the holy spirit. 

If you think the "holy place" is the spiritual temple, then the physical "Gentiles" can't go in anyway. It's not possible. Either make the "holy place" a physical place or make it a figurative illustration or make it a spiritual place. It can't be both at once.

Here's the thing: Paul talked about a spiritual temple as an illustration. When we go to heaven and take our places in the kingdom, that's when we are part of the illustrative spiritual temple. While we are on earth, we are not "in" a spiritual temple. We are to be living stones, yes, we are being built up, yes, but it's not until after the marriage of the Lamb that the spiritual temple goes into effect. It's not possible.

Jesus is the Great High Priest, and he's already in heaven, but most of the anointed ones are still dead. Some of us are alive, but we're not spirit creatures. You can't have the spiritual temple in place until it's completed. It's not completed until the "stones" are all in place. It's not in place until all the anointed die and all the anointed are resurrected and all the anointed are raised to heaven. And that won't happen until after the fall of Babylon the Great during the great tribulation.

@Witness just messaged me! It seems I misunderstood why she has not been able to comment (sorry about that @Witness) - and she has a lot to say on this topic that we are speaking of on this thread - so I will just paste what she said and then respond...

41 minutes ago, Witness said:

Audrey,

You said,  "She private messaged me to let me know the administrator froze her abilities to comment, but that didn't have anything to do with me. I like talking with @Witness, even though I don't agree with what she believes on many things, I am proud of her for being willing to keep her integrity to what she believes.

I never said the admin revoked or froze my ability to comment.  Please correct that.  Both the Admin and the Librarian said it wasn't an issue on their end.  This war is spiritual, and likely, Satan is sick and tired of me being on this forum and declaring truth.  I put the blame on him.

There is something that you should consider.  The "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" is not the UN (if that is what you said).  Remember, the anointed are the spiritual Temple of God (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  The scriptures define "holy place" for us - Exod 26:33; Lev 16:20; 1 Kings 8:10, and many more.  Just type in "holy place".  In that time period, it is related to the temple, the priesthood and sacrifices.  The "disgusting thing" is also called the "abomination standing in the holy place".  This also, is defined by God's word.  An "abomination" that is committed in God's "holy place", is either through the presence of idols, or by "foreigners" entering the Temple, and the actions related to it.  Ezekiel 8:6,9; Ezek 44:6-9.  The elder body is the "disgusting thing"/abomination standing in the holy place.  They have replaced God's priests and act as if they are making sacrifices to God.  The anointed are silenced because of this, their "daily sacrifices" of praise, have been removed.  (Dan 8:11,12)  The priests are the teachers assigned by God, NOT elders who were never anointed to be his priests.  (Mal 2:7)  We can't ignore the definitions in God's word to help us understand the "man of lawlessness"/"disgusting thing" that resides right where the "holy city"/"place"/temple of God, is found - with the anointed ones. 

2 Thess 2:3,4 - "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Rev 11:1,2 - "Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. "

Again, the temple IS the anointed "living stones".  Anyone not anointed as "Israel", is a spiritual "Gentile".  (Rom 9:6-8)

 

Okay, @boyley, did you get to eat dessert? Here is something sweet to eat...

"Pleasant sayings are a honeycomb, 

Sweet to the soul and a healing to the bones."

Jehovah's Word is sweet.

"How sweet your sayings are to my palate, 

More so than honey to my mouth!"

3 hours ago, boyle said:

So you don't believe the bible when it states Christians should be alert to the signs. Where in the bible does it state not to understand scripture as it is written?

 I believe everything that Jehovah has written down in His Word. Jehovah is trustworthy. 

Here is something definitely true:

"For the senseless one will speak nonsense, 

And his heart will devise harmful things, 

To promote apostasy and to speak what is wayward against Jehovah, 

To cause the hungry one to go unfed 

And to deprive the thirsty one of something to drink.  

The devices of the unprincipled man are bad; 

He promotes shameful conduct 

To ruin the afflicted one with lies, 

Even when the poor speaks what is right."

Here is something Jesus said: “O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with you? How long must I put up with you?"

Here is something Jehovah said: "As for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death." I know Jehovah will do what He says.

Some people think it's fun to lie, but it's really not a good idea (unless you like hanging out in an abyss...)

"Look at the one who is pregnant with wickedness; 

He conceives trouble and gives birth to lies.  

He excavates a pit and digs it deep, 

But he falls into the very hole he made."

3 hours ago, boyle said:

So far, that's all you have provided. Personal opinions, and conflicting ones at that.

That's your opinion. 😬

3 hours ago, boyle said:

What is your understanding since it differs from scripture? Let's set aside the Org, and stay on what you said about the UN attacking the Bethels and KH's by confiscating their property, which a veto power in the UN, Russia already did. Under your own words, that would mean the tribulation has started. So, is the UN one, body, and soul? Or are they working in unity?

I really don't understand your question here, @boyle. In Bible prophecy, the UN is depicted as a beast, but it's just an illustration. It's not literal. There is not a real physical multi-headed beast monster running around - I know some people teach that, but it's not true, so you don't have to be afraid. And if you want to know if the great tribulation started, you could do the "window test" like @Pudgy suggests. 

So far, when I look outside there's no great tribulation, but you could look out your own window, so I don't know why you keep asking me. Just look out your window. Why do you keep asking me anyways? (You must think I'm some kind of prophet or something?)

Jesus is the prophet to follow. Here is what he said: "When evening falls, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is fire-red,’  and in the morning, ‘It will be wintry, rainy weather today, for the sky is fire-red but gloomy.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but the signs of the times you cannot interpret." A wicked and adulterous generation keeps seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah.” With that he went away, leaving them behind."

(I wonder if they like coffee twist ice cream?)

"Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

get one's just deserts

phrase of deserts

1. receive the appropriate reward or (more usually) punishment for one's actions."those who caused great torment to others rarely got their just deserts"

It sounds like they got their just deserts for trying to stealing dessert!

I don't have time for a twist right now, @boyle, usually we wait and have ice cream after supper. I will do my best to get back to you later this evening.🍦

10 minutes ago, boyle said:

So, let's not twist your own twist and stay focused on your own words and understanding.

@boyle, what do you think of this outfit? (I don't celebrate Halloween, but I think I know somebody who could pull this off...)

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

…. and why worry about the UN confiscations of Kingdom Halls.

(It won't be the first time a beasty-government came to take away the spoils of Jehovah's organization...)

"At that time the king of Babylon, Merʹo·dach-balʹa·dan son of Balʹa·dan, sent letters and a gift to Hez·e·kiʹah, for he had heard that he had been sick and had recovered.  Hez·e·kiʹah gladly welcomed them and showed them his treasure-house—the silver, the gold, the balsam oil and other precious oil, his whole armory, and everything that was to be found in his treasuries. There was nothing that Hez·e·kiʹah did not show them in his own house and in all his dominion. 

"After that Isaiah the prophet came in to King Hez·e·kiʹah and asked him: “What did these men say, and where did they come from?” 

"So Hez·e·kiʹah said: “They came from a distant land, from Babylon.” 

"Next he asked: “What did they see in your house?” 

"Hez·e·kiʹah replied: “They saw everything in my house. There was nothing that I did not show them in my treasuries.” 

"Isaiah now said to Hez·e·kiʹah: “Hear the word of Jehovah of armies,  ‘Look! Days are coming, and all that is in your house and all that your forefathers have stored up to this day will be carried off to Babylon. Nothing will be left,’ says Jehovah."

https://jw-avcenter.org

https://bronx.news12.com/news-12-tours-jehovahs-witnesses-249-acre-property-where-massive-production

57 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

(cockroaches) will be killed.

(Regarding cockroaches and beer...You can't believe everything you read on the internet, but here's what one website had to say...)

"A persistent urban legend has argued that cockroaches could actually survive a nuclear blast. After all, many cockroaches survived the 1945 nuclear blasts in Japan. MythBusters decided to test this theory. Their research indicated that cockroaches can indeed survive higher levels of radiation than humans can. However, not even these resilient insects could survive radiation levels of 100,000 rads. Of course, if you don’t have a nuclear warhead handy, you might want to consider more conventional ways to get rid of your cockroaches."

"They love beer!

Just when you thought cockroaches had no redeeming features!

It turns out that cockroaches like their cold pints! However, they’re not exactly party insects. They’re not drinking to get drunk. Instead, they’re simply attracted to the sugars and hops found in beer. That’s their excuse anyway…"

(from the deBugged Pest Control Blog)

They're not my favorite critters, but Jehovah said they have their place.

"And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."

Unlike those nasty bad beasties of Revelation...

"And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army.  And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur."

Gehenna - the ultimate pest control!

31 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

EXAMPLE: Tomorrow evening at 3:21PM there will be a massive total spasm launch of missiles resulting in Global Thermonuclear War, an all life on Earth (except cockroaches) will be killed.

WHOA!!, Bummer!

Time to stock up on beer?

 

I didn't think cockroaches drank beer?!

33 minutes ago, boyle said:

Under your own words and understanding, the UN is now attacking both the Bethels and KH's by the property that has already been confiscated by a primary UN charter member Russia. Can you provide evidence where the great tribulation started according to your personal understanding?

Twist twist twist, lol...😆

The great tribulation hasn't started yet, as you are well aware. So, no, I won't provide any evidence for that because the Bible doesn't teach that so neither would I.

I will not provide my own understanding. I have not been sharing my own personal understanding. I will share what is provided in the Bible, as I already have done.

Daniel chapters 11 and 12 provide a timeline of events. The angel of Jehovah spoke words that are recorded in Daniel chapters 11 and 12. It is Jehovah's message. 

When Antiochus III marched against Jerusalem some 200 years before Christ, that was a form of tribulation and it was great if you were living there and Antiochus didn't like you. (Daniel 11:16) When Hitler attacked the Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses, that was not the great tribulation Jesus spoke about at Matthew 24:21, even though it was a great tribulation. When Putin has attacked the branch in Russia and the Witnesses there, it is a great tribulation for each one of the Witnesses personally, but it is not the great tribulation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:21.

The angel told Daniel that "time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time" (the great tribulation) would take place after Michael (Jesus) would take the throne in heaven. Jesus did not take the throne in the 2nd century BCE. Jesus did not take the throne in 1914. Jesus was not king in heaven when Hitler was the ruler of Germany. Jesus had not yet taken the throne when Putin first became the ruler of Russia. The angel of Jehovah said that while the King of the North was doing his shenanigans (as recorded in Daniel 11:44,45) that is when Michael (Jesus) would stand up in heaven and take the throne. The Bible is clear. 

34 minutes ago, boyle said:

Is the UN therefore of one mind, body, and soul, or is it comprised of many body parts working in unity? Which is it?

What do you think? The illustration from jw.org makes it quite clear I think. Can a beast with multiple heads be of one mind? Not possible usually. It is one body figuratively. But the Bible says Jehovah will put it into their mind to do His one thought, to destroy false religion. 

14 minutes ago, boyle said:

23 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Come on, @boyle! You like to do the twist

Sure do.

I'm glad. It's nice to have fun sometimes. 😊

(from "The Cat in the Hat"...)

2 minutes ago, boyle said:

When do you believe Jehovah's witnesses designated Bethel as a holy place as opposed to all the dwellings that are considered consecrated when there is a spiritual gathering?

All the dwellings are considered dedicated to God when there is a spiritual gathering. I never said they weren't considered consecrated by Jehovah's Witnesses. If you reread some of the older posts on the topic, you'll see that both the Bethels and the KHs and the other properties are what will be attacked and confiscated by the UN during the attack on Babylon the Great. 

The United Nations is a physical-minded organization. The Bible depicts it as a beast. It is beast-like, physical-minded. When the UN attacks religion, it cannot attack the minds of people and completely remove their ideas. It cannot attack the hearts of people to completely take away their feelings for God. It can only attack and completely remove the physical things. Since the KHs and the Bethels and the other properties are physical, that is what they will attack. 

It's right in the Bible. It's not my word, it's God's Word.

Or if you prefer, @boyle, to twist to a different beat...