John 12.24to28

On 2/4/2023 at 6:41 PM, Moise Racette said:

 😂 Twist and turns 

 

Come on, @boyle! You like to do the twist! Lol...😆

 

On 4/11/2023 at 10:14 PM, AudreyAnnaNana said:

...I will post something again on another thread sometime in answer to your "concrete evidence" request, and you can twist twist twist away on it all you like. 

 

47 minutes ago, boyle said:

2 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

"disgusting things that cause desolation"

How is Bethel the disgusting thing that causes desolation? So far your running commentary is one big opinion. Still waiting for your solid proof

 

Hey, look, @boyle! Prophecy fulfilled. 😆 Twist, twist, twist!

 

Here is what I actually said, my dear...

 

16 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

 

"“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),  then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.  Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house,  and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment.  Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days!  Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day;  for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.  In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

 

standing in a holy place = Bethel

 

disgusting thing causing desolation = United Nations

 

"Let the reader use discernment."

 

The UN is the disgusting thing and it will attack what is viewed as a holy place by Jehovah's Witnesses, Bethel. "Let the reader use discernment."

13 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

14 hours ago, boyle said:

You can add how Bethel is now Jerusalem? Be specific with your evidence.

 

"“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),  then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.  Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house,  and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment.  Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days!  Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day;  for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.  In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

 

standing in a holy place = Bethel

 

disgusting thing causing desolation = United Nations

 

"Let the reader use discernment."

 

Daniel chapter 11 talks about different "disgusting things that cause desolation" standing "in a holy place". Daniel chapter 11 is where the King of the North and King of the South are discussed. Examining who some of these different characters are helps us to discern what Jesus meant regarding "let the reader use discernment".

 

Verse 16 says: "The one coming against him will do as he pleases, and no one will stand before him. He will stand in the land of the Decoration, and ability to exterminate will be in his hand." This was when Antiochus III marched against Jerusalem, ready to exterminate any Jews who opposed him. Jerusalem is "the land of the Decoration."

 

Verse 20 says: "And there will stand up in his position one who causes an exactor to pass through the splendid kingdom, but in a few days he will be broken, though not in anger nor in warfare." This is when Caesar Augustus put forth the decree for a registration/census that included the area of Judea and Jerusalem. Judea and Jerusalem is "the splendid kingdom".

 

Verse 22 says: "And the arms of the flood will be swept away on account of him, and they will be broken; as will be the Leader of the covenant." The latter part of the verse is talking about when Jesus was killed during the reign of Tiberius Caesar. Jesus is "the Leader of the covenant."

 

Verses 30 says: "“He will go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will go back and will give attention to those leaving the holy covenant." This is when Hitler cruelly persecuted the Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses around the time of WWII.

 

Verse 31 says: "And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature." This is when Hitler and his associates severely restricted worship of Jehovah.

 

The second part of verse 31 says: "And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation." This is when the kings put in place the United Nations. The United Nations is "the disgusting thing that causes desolation". It is disgusting because it claims to be able to do what only God's Kingdom can do. It is disgusting because it is Satan's Kingdom and it reflects its ruler. It is disgusting because it turns people away from loving Jehovah and His Ways. It causes desolation during the great tribulation when it attacks religious institutions.

 

Verse 41 says: "He will also enter into the land of the Decoration." Vladimir Putin has been harassing Jehovah's Witnesses' worship by taking over the branch office in Russia and many other forms of persecution. The land of the "Decoration" is worship of Jehovah.

 

Verse 45 says: "And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration." Vladimir Putin has not relented on his harassment of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, as he continues to imprison them and make worship difficult in other ways. The "holy mountain of Decoration" is worship of Jehovah.

 

Chapter 12 of Daniel continues: "During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book."

 

During the time Vladimir Putin is ruling Russia, that is when Jesus (Michael) takes the throne in heaven. That is when the great tribulation begins (since that is when Jesus kicks Satan out of heaven down to the earth). That is when all religious institutions are attacked.

 

In Daniel 12:6 it says: "How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then the angel answers in verse 7: "It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.” Three and a half years. As soon as the attack on religious institutions begins, which includes the attack on "the holy people" (Jehovah's Witnesses), then there will be three and a half years. 

 

Daniel 12:9-12 says: "Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end.  Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!"

 

Revelation 11 says: "And a reed like a rod was given to me as he said: “Get up and measure the temple sanctuary of God and the altar and those worshipping in it.  But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months. I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” 

 

Since the anointed are still on earth doing a witness work during the first 1,260 days of the great tribulation, they cannot be "resurrected" until after that point (because they aren't all "killed" at that point yet.)

 

Revelation 11:7 says: "When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them."

 

Revelation 11:11,12 says: "After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them.  And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them."

 

The resurrection of the anointed takes place during the three and a half years of the great tribulation, after the 1,260 days goes by and the 3 1/2 days. At 1,290 days there is a noteworthy event, and also at 1,335 days.

 

Praise Jehovah, the One who tells the finale from the beginning. Praise Jehovah, the Revealer of Secrets, who does Love His Dear Little Ones.

 

“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),  then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.  Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment.  Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days!  Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day;  for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.  In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

 

The UN is going to attack the Bethels at the beginning of the great tribulation. "Leave behind even your outer garment." The great tribulation is going to begin soon. Please, if you know anyone at Bethel, please help them get to a safer location, like maybe their old congregation locations. Please keep praying for them. They will need help. Jesus said: "All will know you are my disciples, if you have love amongst yourselves."

3 minutes ago, boyle said:

Word·play

/ˈwərdˌplā/ noun

• 1. the witty exploitation of the meanings and ambiguities of words, especially in puns: "so many of the jokes are based on wordplay"

 

"Then the men said to Lot: “Do you have anyone else here? Sons-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and all your people in the city, bring out of this place!  For we are going to destroy this place, because the outcry against them has indeed grown great before Jehovah, so that Jehovah sent us to destroy the city.”  So Lot went out and began to speak to his sons-in-law who were to marry his daughters, and he kept saying: “Get up! Get out of this place, because Jehovah will destroy the city!” But to his sons-in-law, he seemed to be joking."

28 minutes ago, boyle said:

You can add how Bethel is now Jerusalem? Be specific with your evidence.

 

"“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),  then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.  Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house,  and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment.  Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days!  Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day;  for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.  In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

 

standing in a holy place = Bethel

 

disgusting thing causing desolation = United Nations

 

"Let the reader use discernment."

"And when he got nearby, he viewed the city and wept over it, saying: “If you, even you, had discerned on this day the things having to do with peace—but now they have been hidden from your eyes.  Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side.  They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.” (😭Bethel is our Jerusalem💔)

 

"Then he entered the temple and started to throw out those who were selling,  saying to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a cave of robbers.”"

 

(I do cry over Bethel a lot...But thank you for trying to make me laugh, @Pudgy🥲😊 It would be bad to "blow up" from the type of upset-ness like in that cartoon, lol😆)

@Pudgy, I am an ex-sf person. (Ex-sci-fi.) I was too addicted to sci-fi/horror for too much of my life, back in my evolution/atheist days. It's nothing personal, and I don't care if other people enjoy sci-fi. It's just not my thing anymore. I know Asimov wrote a ton of books, and many of them aren't sci-fi, I'm probably more likely to look at one of those non-sci-fi books, especially if it's non-fiction. I'm trying to be more boring.🙂

 

When I think about the great tribulation beginning at the Bethels, emotionally it's almost like watching that playground nuclear apocalypse scene from Terminator 2. It doesn't matter how "good" the kids are doing in school. When the tribulation hits, how "good" the kids are doing secularly, in the congregation, in the world - it won't matter. What matters is their relationship with Jehovah. He's the only one that can save any of us.

 

These "kids" at Bethel - they're Jehovah's kids. This is Jehovah's organization, and His Name is on it. I don't have any doubts that it's His organization, and I don't have any doubts that many people are better for having been taught Bible basics from Jehovah's organization. But I also understand what Jesus said when he told the Pharisees they scoured the earth to find a proselyte but then made that proselyte more ready for Gehenna then before.

 

It wasn't until I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses that I learned how to completely shun my mother. For about 15 years I ignored my own mother because she was "disfellowshipped". Of all the horrible things I have done in my life, that is the second most horrible. (The other horrible thing was something I did in college when I was an atheist in order to further my "career" and not be "distracted" by another little life.) I later repented about both horrible things - but I am still cut to the core by both, and that I stupidly ignored my own mother for 15 years because some dumb guys at Bethel who don't know anything about families want to make up rules that cause divisions. I could say, "oh well, I just did those two really bad things just out of ignorance." But that's not how repentance works. You still have to face the people you hurt, and you can't rewrite history.

 

For those 15 years that I ignored my mother, I had what seemed a "better" life in the eyes of many - pioneering, interviewed at convention/assembly, friends with the "popular" people, approval of the "important" people - but what good was it? It was a bunch of junk. It wasn't Jehovah's approval. It wasn't showing love. It was fake. What good are all the "sacrifices" we make supposedly "for Jehovah" when we are ignoring the Most Important Command of Jehovah?

 

Does Jehovah call that doing "better"? Jehovah, the Creator of the family, the One to whom every family owes its name - how did He feel that I ignored my mom for 15 years? I know how He feels. When I ignored her, it was like I was ignoring Him. I was not closer to Jehovah for ignoring my mom. I was further away. My kids didn't get to know her. She didn't get to be around her own grandkids. Jesus died and his ransom blood was enough, and I rejected it and instead embraced that false doctrine of imperfect men so that those imperfect men would give me "privileges" in the congregation.

 

It makes me sick to think about.

 

The Pharisees had a rule they called "corban". Jesus made clear how "corban" was viewed.

 

I am glad you are proud of your kids. You have had enough taken away from you - I will not state the obvious because I know it's too painful already.

 

Jehovah's name people is not the same as the corporation part. Jesus is going to allow the corporation part to be removed. When I point out the inconsistencies in doctrine and corruption in the organization, it's not out of hatred for people or out of a lack of gratitude for the good parts. It's because I keep seeing that T2 scene, and those are Jehovah's kids in the picture at Bethel. I know Jehovah is going to clean house. They are His Kids, it's His Name. He's warned them, it's been in the Bible for a long time. The greatest tribulation ever. And they don't even know where it's going to start, even though it's as clear as day in the Bible. Ignorance is not a good place to be.

 

As much as I wish you were right about the "ignorance" part on the corporation leaders, James, I know better. There are many in the organization who are just acting out of ignorance, of course, Jehovah knows and He will protect those ones to the degree possible. (Although it would be better for those ignorant ones if they weren't at Bethel - it would be less traumatic.) But there are many who are not acting out of ignorance. They are the ones Jesus foretold who act like some of the wicked Pharisees and scribes of old, and like Judas Iscariot. God's Word is true. There is a reason He's going to allow the nations to attack His Name People, just like there was a reason He allowed His Name People in Jerusalem to be attacked. There will be a faithful remnant saved.

 

I am glad your kids are not at Bethel. I love Jehovah's kids at Bethel, and it's just like in that movie scene - nobody can hear the warning. They are all deaf.

 

This "Happy at Bethel" video is fun but it makes me cry sometimes when I think about what is coming. I wish they would go back to their home congregations instead of staying at Bethel. The UN is going to destroy the Bethels.

 

 

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

My three children, to the best of my knowledge are absolutely 100% committed to the organization and its teachings.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

One is an Elder in Texas. All three are model Citizens. 

They are doing much better than I in almost every measurable way.

 

I am glad they are well. I am interested, though, in how you are defining "better" in this instance. I mean that with all respect, my brother. Do you mean "better" from a worldly point of view, or "better" from a what-is-published point of view, or from a dad point of view? I am curious.

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Jesus gave the church authority over its members by means of the Elders

 

Who are the two oldest "elders" anyway? What Does the Bible Really Teach?

 

“I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.  A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him. A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The Court took its seat, and books were opened."

 

"And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah, The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah, From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.  So he will give them up Until the time that she who is to give birth has given birth.  And the rest of his brothers will return to the people of Israel. He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah, In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God.  And they will dwell in security, For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.  And he will bring peace."

 

Jehovah, the Ancient of Days

Jesus, whose origin is from ancient times

 

The eldest of the elders.

 

Always obey those elders. The authority of Jesus and Jehovah is more than the authority of any other elder on earth. Praise Jehovah.

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Elders

 

"Elder" means "older brother". I know who my real older brothers are. (The ones who act like older brothers, for real. 🙂)

1 hour ago, boyle said:

So when Jesus gave the church authority over its members by means of the Elders, you obey Jesus, not yourself?

 

 

When the elders in Jerusalem told the disciples to stop telling the truth, how did the disciples respond?

 

"In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men...we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”

 

We obey the elders when they tell us to do things that are in harmony with God's Word.

 

We obey God first when the elders/branch/Bethel/FDS/GB tell us to do things that are not in harmony with God's Word.

 

"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves."

 

When the elders/branch/Bethel/FDS/GB tell someone to embrace a false teaching or to ignore their brother, the elders/branch/Bethel/FDS/GB are taking a stand against the Highest Authority. Jehovah appointed Jesus as King. Jesus' blood is enough to repurchase any of Adam's children who have faith and obey Christ, regardless of the man-made regulations and decrees of some Pharisee court on earth. (The OD book is not canonical. The elder's book is not canonical. The currently practiced  disfellowshipping doctrine is not scriptural. Neither is the 1914 teaching and many other teachings put forward by the so-called "Faithful and Discreet Slave".)

 

I will continue to speak to my brothers (or anyone else who wants to listen for that matter) about the truth, regardless of any satanic doctrines passed by apostates in the organization who want to call themselves elders. I respect elders who are really elders. I know there are real elders in the organization (and some outside the organization) at present. 

 

Jesus was "disfellowshipped" by corrupt elders in Jerusalem who sat on a kangaroo court. Jehovah did not approve of that court. He permitted it, but He didn't approve of it. The "judicial hearings" in the organization  today are also kangaroo courts. They do not have God's support, as He is about to show very soon.

 

I support my Father, Jehovah, and my Lord, Christ Jesus, and whoever they appoint to act as elders. Real Elders and Fake Elders are known by their fruits.

 

"Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.  By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?  Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.  A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.  Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men."

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/music-songs/become-jehovahs-friend-children-original-songs/the-fruitage-of-the-spirit-memorize-the-qualities/

25 minutes ago, boyle said:

What, you're saying, you are equal to Jesus by this comment? Please explain? How can Jesus words and your opinion be the same? Remember, Jesus was perfect, while the rest of us aren't.

 

I am definitely not Jesus. I am not anyone important. I am just a slave for the Master, just like so many others. When I share the words he gave me, he is the one who is glorified, and His Father. "Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as for Jehovah, and not for men, for you know that it is from Jehovah you will receive the inheritance as a reward. Slave for the Master, Christ." I am happy slaving for Him.

 

"You will be brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name.  It will result in your giving a witness.  Therefore, resolve in your hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make your defense,  for I will give you words and wisdom that all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute."

 

As regards your desire for evidence, you will have to exercise your thinking ability to decide who comes in God's name and who doesn't. A lot of people might say "we're on a mission from God..." but that doesn't necessarily make it so...

 

 

John said to "test the inspired expressions."

 

"When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’"

 

If the governing body told the truth about what the Bible teaches as regards 1914 and the great tribulation and the heavenly resurrection, fine, then believe that they came in harmony with Jesus direction when they spoke those things. If what happens is in harmony with what some other lowly person told you who claimed to be "on a mission from God," well, then, there's your "absolute concrete evidence." It's not complicated.

 

"“You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain.  People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house.  Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens. 

 

“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.  Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place."

 

All of the prophecies recorded in the scriptures will come true. Including what the Bible prophesies about the organization being attacked by the UN at the beginning of the great tribulation, and what the scriptures say about the heavenly resurrection taking place during the great tribulation. Jehovah always sends his messengers first, Jehovah's witnesses, that He may be glorified when His Word comes true. The prophecies will all take place. Jehovah is glorified in this. Praise Jehovah.

 

(I have some stuff I have to get done now this afternoon, hope you guys have a good rest of your day!) 😊

1 hour ago, boyle said:

I'm still waiting for with your answer

 

As Axl Rose sang in "Patience":

 

"Said "woman take it slow, and it'll work itself out fine"

All we need is just a little patience

Said "sugar make it slow and we'll come together fine"

All we need is just a little patience (Patience)

Mm, yeah." 

 

Be patient, @boyle you will get your answer, your "concrete evidence" in time. "All we need is just a little patience."

 

Sometimes when people wanted "concrete evidence" regarding Jesus' words, he told them they needed patience. "Then as an answer to him, some of the scribes and the Pharisees said: “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet. For just as Joʹnah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.  Men of Ninʹe·veh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at what Joʹnah preached. But look! something more than Joʹnah is here.  The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solʹo·mon. But look! something more than Solʹo·mon is here.""

 

Jesus said of himself: "“I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator.  He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit.  You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.  Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me.  I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all.""

 

Jesus said he would send the helper, the holy spirit, to help his followers understand the scriptures at the proper time. I do not come in my name, I come in Jehovah's name, in union with Christ. When I share what the scriptures say about the United Nations attacking the Bethels at the beginning of the great tribulation, I am speaking in harmony with the direction of the holy spirit. You will know that Jehovah sent me by means of the holy spirit when those things take place. Have patience. You will see your "concrete evidence". 

 

"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.""

 

"But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth.  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man."

I am all for Bible morality. You will always get a straight answer from me.😁

Perhaps this is more of the kind of "dancing" that you prefer? Dancing with wolves?

 

 

"Righteousness will be the belt around his waist, 

And faithfulness the belt of his hips.  

The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, 

And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, 

And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; 

And a little boy will lead them.  

The cow and the bear will feed together, 

And their young will lie down together.  

The lion will eat straw like the bull. 

The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra, 

And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.  

They will not cause any harm 

Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, 

Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah 

As the waters cover the sea."

 

All things are possible with God. He can heal the sick and resurrect the dead, even the spiritually sick or the spiritually dead.

 

"The wolf and the lamb will feed together, 

The lion will eat straw just like the bull, 

And the serpent’s food will be dust.  

They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” says Jehovah."

 

Praise Jehovah.💖

Did you say you liked Yul Brynner and dancing, @boyle?

40 minutes ago, boyle said:

which I'm still waiting for with your answer instead of dancing around it...

 

On 4/7/2023 at 6:15 PM, boyle said:

Yesterday, I saw two movies.

1.   The Ten Commandments 1956

2.   Solomon and Sheba 1959

Both movies had the actor Yul Brynner on them.

I was going to post a clip from the movie “Solomon and Sheba” as they used the name of god Jehovah many times.

 

 

As a kid I always wondered why they called Curly "Curly" since he was the bald one and it was Larry with the curly-ish longer hair...

(It would be a pity to make such a mess with food...definitely not proper manners or "following the course of hospitality"😁...)

 

 

Now, @boyle, I just know you will "follow the course of hospitality" and mind your proper manners when you eat 😆...

 

...just like these nice young gentlemen...(excerpt from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlSN4LSzgTo minutes 47:21 to 51:45)

 

7 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Perhaps some nice resort area in Andromeda Galaxy?

 

Sounds lovely, lol...

 

@boyle said he likes concrete with his Word salad.

 

On 4/11/2023 at 8:27 PM, boyle said:

Does this mean you have concrete evidence... Can you provide that...

 

17 hours ago, boyle said:

Hope, to see your concrete absolute evidence.

 

"In its simplest form, concrete is a mixture of paste and aggregates. The paste, composed of portland cement and water, coats the surface of the fine and coarse aggregates. Through a chemical reaction called hydration, the paste hardens and gains strength to form the rock-like mass known as concrete." (from cement.org)

 

That sounds like a good idea, to build with concrete. Jesus is the Rock-Mass. Jesus said it is wise to build on the Rock-Mass. He is also the Word.

 

"But let each one keep watching how he is building on it.  For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,  each one’s work will be shown for what it is, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire, and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built.  If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward..."

 

Alright, then, concrete salad. Let's eat! (Hope you like "mass quantities"!😬)

 

11 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Daniel had several visions that presented the progression of world powers in slightly different ways (kind of like how John had the visions of Revelation that depict the coming of the kingdom in slightly different angles.)

 

In an earlier post we looked at Daniel chapter 8. This time it's Daniel chapter 7...

 

The march of world powers here is depicted as...

Lion

Bear

Leopard

Dragon-like Beast

then there is a focus on a Small Horn.

 

(see verses 1-8)

 

The angel explains who is who...

Lion, Bear, Leopard, Dragon-like Beast, are four kings who stand up from the earth. 

 

(Daniel chapters 2 and 8 give more specifics; that's where we find out they are specifically...

Lion=Babylon

Bear=Medo-Persia

Leopard=Greece

Dragon-like Beast=Rome.) 

 

(We know from Daniel chapter 11 that Rome eventually led to the US/UK. We know from Revelation that the US/UK eventually breathes life into the UN.)

 

The Dragon-like Beast Small Horn here in Daniel chapter 7 is the United Nations.

 

Thus...

Dragon-like Beast Small Horn=United Nations

 

(see verses 16-25)

 

Daniel chapter 7 gives more specifics that help us identify the United Nations in prophecy. "It had ten horns" is similar to in Revelation 17 describing the UN: "The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast."

 

The small horn that plucks up the three other horns is also described in this way: "This is what he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour all the earth and will trample it down and crush it.  As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings.  He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

 

(Side note on the "humiliation of three kings": At times coalitions of nations have acted in the role of what is called today the United Nations - like the League of Nations did, or post WWII when the US the UK and USSR made the 1945 Potsdam Agreement or when the US the UK the USSR and France made the 1947 Paris Peace Treaties - which "humiliated three kings". Austria-Hungary, Germany, and Italy were three humiliated "kings" who had their roots in the Roman empire. They were humiliated by the Postdam Agreement and the Paris Peace Treaties which cut down their defenses and economies, divided their territories, and dictated unacceptable styles of governance.)

 

For 3 1/2 years during the great tribulation (or a time, times and half a time) the UN will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. The UN will attack all religious institutions, including Jehovah's Witnesses. The UN will speak words against the Most High.

 

The UN is permitted to harass the holy ones during the great tribulation. After the three and a half times, the Court in heaven sits, and the UN will be removed. 

 

(see verses 9-15 and verses 26-27)

 

"He" [the UN leader] "will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.  But the Court sat," [Jehovah's Court in heaven] "and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely. “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’"

 

Below are the verses from Daniel chapter 7 for reference:

 

(Verses 1-8)

 

"In the first year of King Bel·shazʹzar of Babylon, Daniel saw a dream and visions of his head as he lay on his bed. Then he wrote down the dream; he recorded a complete account of the matters.  Daniel declared: “I was watching in my visions during the night, and look! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea.  And four huge beasts came out of the sea, each different from the others. 

 

“The first one was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were plucked out, and it was lifted up from the earth and was made to stand up on two feet like a man, and it was given the heart of a man. 

 

“And look! another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Get up, eat much flesh.’ 

 

“After this I kept watching, and look! another beast, like a leopard, but on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. And the beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. 

 

“After this I kept watching in the visions of the night, and I saw a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it trampled down with its feet. It was different from all the other beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns.  While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it. And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly. 

 

(Verses 9-15)

 

“I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.  A stream of fire was flowing and going out from before him. A thousand thousands kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The Court took its seat, and books were opened. 

 

“I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire.  But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season. 

 

“I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.  And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed. 

 

“As for me, Daniel, my spirit was distressed within me because the visions of my head frightened me."  

 

(Verses 16-25)

 

"I went near to one of those who were standing there to ask him about the true meaning of this. So he replied and made known to me the interpretation of these things. 

 

“‘These huge beasts, four in number, are four kings who will stand up from the earth.  But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will possess the kingdom forever, yes, forever and ever.’ 

 

“Then I wanted to know more about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others; it was extraordinarily fearsome, with iron teeth and copper claws, and it was devouring and crushing, and trampling down what was left with its feet;  and about the ten horns on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth speaking arrogantly and whose appearance was bigger than that of the others. 

 

“I kept watching as that horn made war on the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them,  until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was rendered in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the appointed time arrived for the holy ones to take possession of the kingdom.

 

“This is what he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour all the earth and will trample it down and crush it. As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings.  He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.  

 

(Verses 26-27)

 

"But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely. 

 

‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’"

 

Jehovah's Word Always Comes True. Praise Jehovah.

Remember that scene where Kermit says something like: "We need more dogs and bears and chickens and whatever!"

 

I like that Jehovah's love for people is like that. He doesn't only love or only save Jehovah's Witnesses. Just like He didn't love only the Jews. Jehovah brought the nations into a relationship with Him. It's going to be the same again. It's not just Jehovah's Witnesses that He's going to save during the tribulation. The ransom is enough for them - those who are not yet Jehovah's Witnesses. We don't have to be the judge, thank God, that's not our job. We just have to love.

 

Those of the nations who became Christians were drawn by the love, not by the requests for Bible studies.

 

"Let your love be without hypocrisy."

 

"“‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.’” And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."

 

The ransom is enough for them. Praise Jehovah. 🥰

 

 

Moving right along...I'm glad Jehovah's chariot has Jehovah driving and Jehovah knowing the time table - we just get to go along for the ride...

 

 

"Movin' right along in search of good times and good news

With good friends you can't lose

This could become a habit!

Opportunity knocks once let's reach out and grab it (yeah!)

Together we'll nab it

We'll hitchhike, bus or yellow cab it!

(Cab it?)

Movin' right along

Footloose and fancy-free

Getting there is half the fun, come share it with me

Moving right along (doog-a-doon doog-a-doon)

We'll learn to share the load

We don't need a map to keep this show on the road

(Hey, that song is sounding better Fozzie)

Movin' right along, we've found a life on the highway

And your way is my way

So trust my navigation

California here we come, the pie-in-the-sky-land

Palm trees, and warm sand

Though sadly we just left Rhode Island

(We did what?!)

(Just forget it)

Movin' right along (doog-a-doon doog-a-doon)

Hey LA, where've you gone?

Send someone to fetch us, were in Sasketchewan!

Movin' right along (doog-a-doon doog-a-doon)

You take it, you know best

Hey, I've never seen the sun come up in the West?

Movin' right along we're truly birds of a feather

We're in this together

And we know where we're going

Movie stars with flashy cars and life with the top down

We're storming the big town

(Yeah, storm is right, should it be snowing?)

(Uh, no I don't think so)

Movin' right along,

Do I see signs of men?

Yeah, "welcome" on the same post that says "come back again"

Moving right along (nice town!)

Footloose and fancy-free

You're ready for the big time

Is it ready for me?

Movin' right along

Movin' right along

Movin' right along

Movin' right along"

😁

"Maintain low tones!" 😆

 

Low tones, is that like an undertone?

 

"This book of the Law should not depart from your mouth, and you must read it in an undertone day and night, in order to observe carefully all that is written in it; for then your way will be successful and then you will act wisely.  Have I not commanded you? Be courageous and strong. Do not be struck with terror or fear, for Jehovah your God is with you wherever you go."

 

"Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked

And does not stand on the path of sinners 

And does not sit in the seat of scoffers.  

But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, 

And he reads His law in an undertone day and night.  

He will be like a tree planted by streams of water, 

A tree that produces fruit in its season, 

The foliage of which does not wither.  

And everything he does will succeed."

 

"Maintain low tones!" 

Some people don't like salad. That's cool. I'd don't care for seaweed salad myself. But I think a nice Greek salad with lots of feta and olives is good. Or an antipasto with some Genoa salami. Perhaps just fresh greens with garden cucumbers and a Beefsteak tomato, a little oil and vinegar and salt and fresh basil...

 

Okay, @Pudgy, you might have to close your eyes for a minute, I have a whole bunch of word salad here, lol...Daniel chapter 8 verses and explanation regarding the UN. I put the verses at the end of this post for reference.

 

Daniel had several visions that presented the progression of world powers in slightly different ways (kind of like how John had the visions of Revelation that depict the coming of the kingdom in slightly different angles.)

 

Daniel chapter 8 progresses...

 

from Ram to Goat 

...to Four-Horns-On-the-Goat 

...to Focus-On-One-Small-Horn on the Goat.

 

Later in the chapter, the angel explains who's who...

 

Ram=Media/Persia

Goat=Greece

Four Horns=Four Kingdoms that descend from Greece.

 

The context and other parts of the Bible show that...

 

The One-Small-Horn is the United Nations.

 

(side note: Daniel chapter 11 describes the details of the descent of the Four Horns into two kingdoms, the King of the North and the King of the South. Revelation 13 shows the King of the South as US/UK breathing life into the UN. The UN is an extension of the US/UK world power. Thus the UN is depicted as the Small Horn in Daniel chapter 8.)

 

The details in verses 13-14 show that the United Nations rules for a little while and it is the king that attacks religion on a global scale as foretold in Revelation during the appointed time of the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation.

 

The leader of the United Nations will come to his power "as the transgressors act to a completion". The "transgressors" are the lawless ones in the organization, those foretold who are apostatizing, sitting as lawless ones like gods in the House of God, described in 2 Thessalonians. The lawless ones who are like wolves in the congregation are saying "Peace and Security", namely, that they will not be attacked during the tribulation because of their titles and prominence, that they will survive despite their ungodly deeds. They are wrong. They will not be safe when the UN attacks Babylon the Great because titles and prominence will not save anybody. The UN will attack the Bethels and the KHs, and Jehovah will permit it because Jehovah does not dwell in handmade temples. Jehovah will allow His angels to protect faithful individuals in the congregation (and outside the congregation) who are sighing and groaning over what is going on.

 

The leader of the United Nations' "power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way" (the footnote reads, "or bring terrible destruction") "...during a time of security he will bring many to ruin" (the footnote reads, "or possibly, 'and without warning.'") Similar to when Jesus said "at an hour you do not think it to be." Also, that many in the organization would be asleep. They are waiting for the nations to cry "peace and security" because they are looking in the wrong place. The nations will not say "peace and security" in any special way before the UN attacks religion. It is the lawless ones in the congregation that are saying "peace and security" when they are attacked by the UN.

 

"He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand. “What was said in the vision about the evenings and the mornings is true, but you must keep the vision secret, for it refers to a time many days from now.” 

 

The UN will stand up against the Prince of princes during the great tribulation. The UN will attack Jehovah's Witnesses at the beginning of the tribulation, and also throughout the 3 1/2 years of the tribulation.

 

Jehovah is making clear now what is about to happen. May Jehovah be praised. It is important because the destruction will be so great, "unless Jehovah cut it short, no flesh would be saved." The organization will be restored and refined, after the 2,300 evenings and mornings (which means after 1,150 days). 

 

It matters that you know. It matters because somebody has to know and tell the brothers. They don't have a clue it's coming in this way. Do you have relatives or friends who are Jehovah's Witnesses? They will be shocked when the Bethels are gone, when the governing body is shown to be the lawless ones who apostatized, when the attack on false religion by the UN STARTS AT THE BETHELS. The faith of Jehovah's Witnesses will be tested. They don't expect the great tribulation to last 3 1/2 years. They won't know what to do. They will be afraid. You will be able to comfort them, and tell them that Jehovah foretold these things - Jehovah hasn't left them. You are one of Jehovah's witnesses. They will have to know that Jehovah loves you in that hour, and that you love them, when you comfort them with this information. They will need comfort, and you will be able to comfort them. Jehovah is praised in this, humbling the haughty and exalting the lowly, and sending comforters to comfort the mourning ones. Praise Jehovah.

 

"Look! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying—look! I will make them come and bow before your feet and make them know that I have loved you.  Because you kept the word about my endurance, I will also keep you from the hour of test, which is to come upon the entire inhabited earth, to put to the test those dwelling on the earth.  I am coming quickly."

 

(Verses 1-12)

 

"In the third year of the kingship of King Bel·shazʹzar, a vision appeared to me, Daniel, after the one that appeared to me previously.  I saw the vision, and as I watched I was in Shuʹshan the citadel, which is in the province of Eʹlam; I viewed the vision, and I was next to the watercourse of Uʹlai.  As I raised my eyes, look! there was a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns. The two horns were tall, but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up later.  I saw the ram making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south, and no wild beasts could stand before it, and there was no one who could provide rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and exalted itself. As I kept watching, look! there was a male goat coming from the west crossing the surface of the whole earth without touching the ground. And the goat had a conspicuous horn between its eyes.  It was coming toward the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing before the watercourse; it was running toward it in a powerful rage. I saw it closing in on the ram, and it was filled with bitterness toward it. It struck down the ram and broke its two horns, and the ram was powerless to stand up to it. It threw the ram to the ground and trampled it down, and there was no one to rescue it from its power. Then the male goat exalted itself exceedingly, but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken; then four conspicuous horns came up instead of the one, toward the four winds of the heavens. Out of one of them came another horn, a small one, and it grew very great toward the south and toward the east and toward the Decoration.  It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down.  It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down.  And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success."

 

(Verses 13-14)

 

"And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?”  So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”" 

 

(Verses 15-22)

 

"While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and seeking to understand it, suddenly I saw standing in front of me someone who appeared to be a man.  Then I heard the voice of a man in the midst of the Uʹlai, and he called out: “Gaʹbri·el, make that one understand what he saw.”  So he came near to where I was standing, but when he came I was so terrified that I fell facedown. He said to me: “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”  But while he was speaking with me, I fell fast asleep with my face to the ground. So he touched me and made me stand up where I had been standing.  Then he said: “Here I am causing you to know what will happen in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of the end. “The two-horned ram that you saw stands for the kings of Meʹdi·a and Persia.  The hairy male goat stands for the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between its eyes stands for the first king.  As for the horn that was broken, so that four stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from his nation that will stand up, but not with his power."

 

(Verses 23-26)

 

"And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up.  His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones.  And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand. “What was said in the vision about the evenings and the mornings is true, but you must keep the vision secret, for it refers to a time many days from now.”"