John 12.24to28
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Posts posted by John 12.24to28
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3 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
So the question is, if excommunication was an issue, why did Jesus establish it and why did Paul actually remove wrongdoers from the congregation if, in your words, it is a wrong practice? And secondly, you never explained how anyone, and or any Jehovah’s Witnesses should deal with a wrongdoer, knowing unrepentant sins can ruin a congregation community.
Paul excommunicated Christian who were unrepentant and continued to practice sexual immorality. Paul also excommunicated Hymenaeus and Alexander. Was Paul in the wrong?
I never said Paul was wrong or that there isn't a place for removing wrongdoers from our association. It's the modern-day process used in the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses that has apostasized from what Jesus and Paul and John said.
Where in the Bible is there instruction for a two or three elder committee secret meeting judicial hearing Pharisee-style? There isn't. Justice used to take place in the city gate or the whole congregation would know, like how Paul let everybody in the congregation know the details of what was going on with that guy who was sleeping with his dad's wife. There was no hearing to get the guy reinstated. When he stopped sleeping with the lady, then they welcomed him back.
The whole business about not eating with a serious wrongdoer in context was talking about for the Memorial meal.
John's letter was saying not to "rejoice" with someone teaching false doctrine - in other words, don't be commending a person teaching false doctrine like the way the GB does about 1914 or FDS title. Don't be encouraging them to keep teaching such things.
If someone claims to be a brother but treats others in an unloving way by teaching to shun family members, don't let that person come in your home because then you're encouraging perpetuation of that antiChrist doctrine.
Paul said that in our day in the congregation there would be some taking the lead who say they have godly devotion but prove false to its power. The governing body says they have godly devotion, but then they teach people to shun in an unscriptural way. We are told: "from these" (people like the GB) "turn away."
It doesn't mean to abandon the organization bearing God's name. There are wheat-like teachings and there are weed-like teachings. They have grown together. It just means that we need to reject the weed-like ones.
Jesus is coming to remove all the weedy teachings and weed-like people at the appointed time near at hand. In the meantime we need to stay unsullied from the satanic teachings that have infiltrated the organization like the leaven in the dough. Disfellowshipping doctrine as currently practiced is one of those satanic teachings.
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32 minutes ago, Equivocation said:2 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:
Our brothers and sisters in the first century had high regard for those appointed to take the lead, and we feel similarly today. We do not idolize well-known representatives of the Christian congregation or react in their presence as if angels were standing nearby. Still, we do respect and honor such brothers for their hard work and humility.—Read 2 Corinthians 1:24; Revelation 19:10.
@redHarmonioussparrow Bingo, 100% 👍🏾
Playing bingo is always taking a chance. There's a chance you might lose. It's not 100%.
If you follow a brother who is loyal, you'll end up in the right place. But how can you tell if a brother is loyal? Who is the only brother who was loyal 100% of the time? Jesus is the only perfect brother who always adhered to God's Word. Follow him. His path is described for us in God's Word.
Respect and honor for brothers in authority positions needs to be balanced with respect and honor for the Highest Authorities, Jehovah God and His Son Christ Jesus.
Following imperfect men without thinking is not the way to follow God and Christ. (If the first-century Christians followed Peter when he was shunning Gentiles, where would we be today? Actually, we're in the same place...the GB teaches to unscripturally shun all kinds of people..."If the blind follow the blind, both will fall in the pit.")
Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners. He talked to them before they repented. He said if someone sins 77 times a day and repents to forgive then that day, not to wait for some committee a year later to give you permission to speak to them.
The organization leaders like to say how they "progressed" from voting democratically for leaders to a more refined way, but read this definition and the following examples to see how similarly they fit the modern organizational processes and ways of governing...
"Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages
so·cial·ism
noun: socialism
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."we want a real democratic and pluralist left party—one which unites all those who believe in socialism"
Jehovah's Witnesses view saying the Pledge of Allegiance as an act of worship, and rightfully so.
(from https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm )
If you changed a few words, the pledge could read...
"I pledge allegiance to the JW.ORG and the Governing Body Faithful Discreet Slave for which it stands; one ORG indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
Jehovah detests idol worship. Jehovah is jealous for His Holy Name, and rightfully so.
"We must obey God as ruler rather than men." Even if those men are on the governing body. Humans are made of dust, the same thing graven images are made of. Jehovah is the Only True God.
"Little children, keep yourselves from idols."
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22 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
Unfortunately, Excommunication DOES have some contextual meaning and usages in the Scriptures, and in the Christian congregation (there were people literally excommunicated in the Scriptures; having congregation ties cut). There were points, even Space Merchant made on here that solidifies that, even in example of verses that shows such. Like the early Christians, the JWs apply it (Jehovah’s Witnesses practice Expelling for a reason, it wasn’t something random concerning wrongdoers), we don’t do total censure though, which was a claim someone made a while back. The practice of Expelling (Excommunication or Disfellowshipping) of incorrigible wrongdoers is a clear and explicit teaching in the Bible. As some mentioned before, or in your pervious discussion with SM, it was pointed out that Jesus Christ was the very person to establish this as a requirement for the Christian congregation, to not even recognize this, is a telling sign of what I met about identifying marks of a True Christian, in terms of knowing what the Bible says or what Jesus says. For example, Matthew 18:17, which reads:
[17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.]
The context of his words points back to how judges and officers represented the nation of Israel in dealing with judicial matters under the Old Law Deut. 16:18. In Jesus’ day, offenders answered to the local courts made up of Jewish elders, and later, men would be appointed by the spirit to act as judges in each Christian congregation. For these offenders would end up being treated as a tax collector of whom the Jew had no dealings with. In the Christian congregation, or in this case, among Jehovah’s Witnesses, Expelling, according to commentary, is an exercise by the Christian Congregation, is not merely founded on the natural right, possessed by all societies, nor merely on the example of the Jewish Church and nation. It was instituted by our Lord… The meaning of this is, cease to have religious intercourse with him... Regard him as obstinate, self-willed, and guilty... We should disown him as a Christian brother...This is the only way of kindness. This is the only way to preserve peace and purity in the church… Christ’s teachings repeatedly showed that a willful incorrigible reprobate would be “cast out” from true worshipers, especially in the “last days” during his second presence. And that “his servants” would be commanded to carry out this command.
Obviously, the Apostles understood that Christ commanded the expelling of obstinate sinners since Paul showed that it was done with Christ's authority. Expelling can be permanent or temporary regarding congregation members who were cast out of the community. This practice, specifically mentioned in Matthew's Gospel (Mt.18:15-17) and the Corinthian correspondence (1 Cor.5:5; 2 Cor. 2:6), served 2 purposes.
Although congregation ties are cut, Family ties remain (usually depends on the culture in most cases), for, there are former Witnesses, some whom I ran into, who said they’re expelling was justified because of some of the thing they did, some things they do not want to go into detail about, these former witnesses are different from the Apostate types who are very rude and aggressive in some cases, even towards former witnesses who do not share in their thoughts and ideas, in two situations, I had to defend the bullied, in this case, another, regarding someone’s girlfriend, who was studying with us at the time, being the subject of attack by Apostates, resulting in a very angry significant other and an angry community.
Anyways those 2 purpose, being,
[1] It protects the community from the harmful influence of the sinner (1 Cor.5:6-7).
[2] It reminds the sinner of the sin (2 Cor.2:7) in the hope that repentance (7:9) and redemption occur.
Expelling can be done instituted via various actions (ofc used in the correct way), for example, serious matters, sexual sins (1 Corinthians 5:1), Unrepentance (Matthew 18:15-17), Facetiousness (Titus 3:10-11) and speaking heresies (Roman 16:17), so we, as True Christians, would need to stop mixing company with such persons. Or other practices that are unclean and or immoral. Anyone who is truly showing repentance, we are to forgive and take that person back, this is why there is a reinstate process to this too (James 5:14-16; Acts 17:30; Proverbs 28:13). The action deals with sinners and or wrongdoers, and it are done to dealt with them quickly and seriously for both the health of the community and the spiritual health cast out.
One of the identifying marks of True Christians and a faith is to follow what Jesus said, as is follow the command of the one who sent him, therefore, within a community of Christians who worship the True God together, we are to remove willful sinners on the grounds of sin, even serious sin. We already see the state of those who do not even follow what Jesus command, and now look what entered into their church to fit in with what is seen as normal in today’s society.
Just wanted confirmation lol. I bring it up because unlike everyone here I do not log on here as much, but how you constantly post remind me of Witness, in a way, even Jesus.Defender. I think she is a nice person too, but as others have pointed out, even others who aren’t even religious, points out she is misguided. Since we are all talking about core teachings, there were some things that she has said that are both contradicting and or did not make sense in some cases. She was also unfazed and seem supportive of the very people who raided my Hall some years ago. 🤷🏾♂️
Indeed, God has not change, but it should not stop us from following his command, as well as the command of his Son. To fail on trying to keep the community clean would only result in problems later on, and upon his return, judgement for not taking action.
@Equivocation, I follow God's commands and support His Son's commands. I am sure you would agree that that means taking Bible verses in context.
The specific verses used by the organization to attempt to support the current way of applying disfellowshipping doctrine are discussed in context in this post...
...and also on this thread...
...and this one...
But to summarize some of it, we have to look at the specific scriptures in context and the Bible as a whole, as well as the original language meanings. An example below is given of how looking at specific Bible verses in the original language helps clarify the true meaning of a scripture and identify twisted teachings in the org...
"Go to the congregation" means tell the congregation members, not just the elders...
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1 hour ago, Equivocation said:
As far as I know there is only a few people here who are very very knowledgeable about the UN itself, @JW Insider is one of them, I learned from him about some stuff, as well as from @Arauna, for I had no idea what the WEF is until she explained it alongside Agenda 21 stuff or all this Globalist stuff that, to be honest, sounds like a Legion of Doom kind of group lol. Then you have the guy who is literally in the crossfire and war zone of all things UN, Babylon and the Beast, and people with agendas, @Space Merchant, who ironically, although cryptic at times, his words have some sense, and often times is true, for example Ukraine, China and the Education system, he was right about the UK, his community tends to know things that are vital from the way he talks on here. The United Nations is a threat but I doubt they would go for bethel first. If you made attention to what those 3 mentioned over the years, you'd realize it. I am not as knowledgeable regarding the subject matter as they are but I know a bit.
Jehovah is the Source of all True Knowledge. Jehovah's Word is Always Reliable, it never fails. Jehovah's Holy Spirit teaches us. Here is what Jehovah's Word and Holy Spirit teaches about the UN:
The UN in Bible prophecy in Daniel...
Daniel chapter 2
"feet were partly of iron and partly of clay" (Daniel 2:33)
The UN is made up of NGOs and human groups as well as governmental authorities and representatives. The UN is the feet of iron and clay.
"And just as you saw the feet and the toes to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay. “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy." (Daniel 2:41-44)
The UN has not come to full ruling power yet. It will. We are not living in the end of the last days yet.
Daniel chapter 7
"After this I kept watching in the visions of the night, and I saw a fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong, and it had large iron teeth. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it trampled down with its feet. It was different from all the other beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns. While I considered the horns, look! another horn, a small one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up from before it. And look! there were eyes like human eyes in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking arrogantly." (Daniel 7:7,8)
The small horn is the UN. It humiliated Germany, Austro-Hungary, and Italy.
"I kept watching as that horn made war on the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was rendered in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the appointed time arrived for the holy ones to take possession of the kingdom." (Daniel 7:21,22)
While the UN is ruling in its full power, it will attack and make war on the holy ones. Later during the great tribulation it will be the appointed time for the holy ones to take possession of the kingdom.
"As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings. He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." (Daniel 7:24,25)
The UN starts as an extension of the US/UK but is different than the other previous kingdoms. The UN humiliated Germany, Austro-Hungary, and Italy after WWII with the settlements and treaties (those three kingdoms were previously under the domain of the Roman empire).
When soon ruling as the dominant world power, the UN will harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. It will be for "a time, times and half a time" or three and a half years.
Daniel chapter 8
"Out of one of them came another horn, a small one, and it grew very great toward the south and toward the east and toward the Decoration. It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down. It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success." (Daniel 8:9-12)
The UN is the small horn that grows great all the way toward the Decoration. The UN started as an extension of the US/UK. It will "cause some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth and trample them down" when it attacks all religions including Jehovah's Witnesses.
"And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?” So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”" (Daniel 8:13,14)
Though the scriptures show the entire tribulation lasts 3 1/2 years, this verse shows there will be a refining in the organization. By the 1,500th day of the tribulation, the organization bearing God's name will be refined so that all the sheep can be gathered together there. (An evening and a morning equals one day. 1,500 evenings plus 1,500 mornings equals 2,300 evenings and mornings. 1,500 evenings plus 1,500 mornings equals 1,500 days.)
"Then he said: “Here I am causing you to know what will happen in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of the end." (Daniel 8:19)
The appointed time of the end hasn't started yet, but it will start soon.
"And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand." (Daniel 8:23-25)
The leader of the UN will be the "fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings. His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively" when he "brings mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones" when he attacks all religious institutions.
"What was said in the vision about the evenings and the mornings is true, but you must keep the vision secret, for it refers to a time many days from now." (Daniel 8:16)
The organization will be attacked, but it will be refined by the 1,500th day of the tribulation.
"“How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.”" (Daniel 12:6,7)
The great tribulation begins when the UN comes to complete power. It will last for 3 1/2 years, the appointed times of the nations.
"And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" (Daniel 12:11,12)
There will also be specific noteworthy events at the 1,290th day and the 1,335th day. Revelation gives clues on these other events.
Jehovah's Word always comes true. These things are speeding toward an accomplishment, but we still need to exercise patience. When the UN attack starts at the Bethels, do not be afraid, Jehovah foretold it ahead of time. Jehovah will discipline and refine His organization and gather in all the sheep wherever they have been scattered to, whether inside or outside the organization or whatever denomination they currently belong to or don't belong to...Jehovah is the true God. He can read thoughts and the intentions of the hearts, He knows all things and is a merciful judge. Jehovah always does what is right. Jehovah is the Revealer of Secrets. Praise Jehovah.
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49 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
excommunicated? That disciplinary action made by elders results in congregation ties being cut, but it doesn't stop you from attending meetings or listening to talks. That action wasn't made by man, but if you really look into where it came from, it came from Jesus and later applied by the early Christians
The way "excommunication" is applied in the Jehovah's Witnesses organization is not in harmony with the scriptures.
49 minutes ago, Equivocation said:But that last remark is kind of sus, you sure you aren't @Witness or Pearl?
Here is a photo of me and my kids from the Portland Maine 2023 Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses from this past weekend...
Jehovah's angels arranged for us to meet with the US Spokesperson for the US Branch of Jehovah's Witnesses, Robert Hendriks, and his wife to show that Jehovah is not the one behind the disfellowshipping doctrine. Robert Hendriks gave me his personal mobile number. (You can read more about our conversation with him and what else happened at the convention this weekend on this thread... )
My point in sharing the photo is so that you can see two things:
(1) I am Audrey. I am not @Witness or Pearl. I do not share the same beliefs as those two, but I do have respect for their zeal.
(2) Jehovah's holy spirit obviously does not bless disfellowshipping and Jehovah's holy spirit is not the force behind a disfellowshipping committee or label. It was Jehovah's holy spirit that moved me to talk with Robert Hendriks and it was Jehovah's holy spirit that moved him to talk with me. The witness of Jehovah's holy spirit is always 100% trustworthy. Jehovah doesn't lie. His spirit doesn't lie. The disfellowshipping doctrine is manmade, it's like the corban teaching of the Pharisees, it is unscriptural and anti-Christ. It is one of the reasons Jesus is coming to cleanse the organization.
It may seem like a "strange deed" to some that the UN would begin their attack on religion at the Bethels, but it is what is prophesied in Jehovah's Word. Jehovah told the elders and leaders among His Name People in the past these words that are also applicable for today - Jehovah has not changed and the primary application is for after Jesus takes the throne in heaven which is very soon...
"So hear the word of Jehovah, you boasters,
You rulers of this people in Jerusalem,
For you men say:
“We have made a covenant with Death,
And with the Grave we have made an agreement.
When the raging flash flood passes through,
It will not reach us,
For we have made a lie our refuge
And we have hidden ourselves in falsehood.”
Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a tested stone,
The precious cornerstone of a sure foundation.
No one exercising faith will panic.
And I will make justice the measuring line
And righteousness the leveling tool.
The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will flood out the hiding place.
Your covenant with Death will be dissolved,
And your agreement with the Grave will not stand.
When the raging flash flood passes through,
You will be crushed by it.
As often as it passes through,
It will sweep you away;
For it will pass through morning after morning,
During the day and during the night.
Only terror will make them understand what was heard.
For the bed is too short to stretch out on,
And the woven sheet is too narrow to wrap up in.
For Jehovah will rise up as at Mount Pe·raʹzim;
He will rouse himself as in the valley near Gibʹe·on,
That he may do his deed—his strange deed—
And that he may carry out his work—his unusual work."
(Isaiah 28:14-21)
The leaders in the organization claim to have "a covenant with Death" in that they don't think the UN will attack them and take their stuff. They are wrong.
The organization has a ton of properties and stuff. The UN is a beast. It doesn't respect whatever "covenant with Death" the org thinks it has. It is going to ravage the fleshly parts of the organization, namely, the properties, the real estates, the KHs, the Bethels, the studios - all of the material wealth will be completely stripped. It will start at the Bethels because that's where the GB sits.
Jehovah's rage is great against His Name People because they have allowed terrible things to take place in the organization and have hurt many sheep. Jehovah will fix it, but everyone will know how mad He is at the guys taking the lead when He allows them to get hit first by the UN during the great tribulation. Jehovah's Name will be sanctified. He will protect the right-hearted ones during that time, and many will repent after they see how Jehovah really feels. Praise Jehovah for His loyal love!
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The Kingdom Law of Love is the highest command. To these, all the others are linked.
@Equivocation, I just got back from the 2023 Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some people who have known me and claimed to be my friends for two decades were willing to treat me as if I am invisible for no reason at all except that they follow the commands of men ahead of the command of God.
If you can't see that the GB is worshipped and that God hates it, you soon will. Jesus is coming to remove their idol worship. Jesus is zealous and jealous for Jehovah's holy name. When Jesus receives the kingdom, everyone will know how much Jesus hates that idol worship of the GB. The attack on religion by the UN will start at the Bethels.
"You should start from my sanctuary.” So they started with the elders who were in front of the house."
(Ezekiel 9:6,7)
"Then he said to them: “Defile the house and fill the courtyards with the slain. While they were striking them down, I alone was left, and I fell facedown and cried out: “Alas, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah! Are you going to destroy all the remaining ones of Israel while you pour out your rage on Jerusalem?” So he said to me: “The error of the house of Israel and Judah is very, very great. The land is filled with bloodshed, and the city is full of corruption. For they say, ‘Jehovah has left the land, and Jehovah is not seeing.’ But as for me, my eye will not feel sorry; nor will I show compassion. The consequences of their way I will bring down on their own head.” Then I saw the man clothed in linen with the inkhorn at his waist bringing back word, saying: “I have done just as you have commanded me.”"
(Ezekiel 9:7-11)
Jehovah has not changed. He will sanctify His Holy Name, which has been profaned and reproached by Jehovah's Witnesses. He will rescue and protect those sighing and groaning over the detestable things going on in the organization. Praise Jehovah.
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36 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
This may be true, but as @Space Merchant said before and I guess here, if you can't recognize core teachings from what isn't core, you are going to have a problem, probably why he gave you that question about different faiths in the first place. You can see @Srecko Sostar's answer about the New Covanant (assuming it was conjured by the GB) vs @Arauna and SM's, both knowing where it originated from, and that is only ONE example. 🤭
Although False Christendom is near it's end, it takes a discerning individual to know what are the true identifying marks of a True Christian or a True faith vs marks of a false Christian or a false faith, this goes for those who ultimately have bad intentions, like people who falsify forgiveness before God while at the same time manipulate others for a gain, something I posted a while back.
At the end of the day, yes, some false teachings are to be cast aside but as Christians we were given a specific command, that we must do in this day and age. Doing so or refuse puts Christians on 2 seperate routes.
What really is a true Christian?
How much "doctrine" type teaching did Jesus focus on teaching when he was here on earth during his ministry? How many times do we hear him talking about elderpowersetup/1914invisiblecoming/thewordneutrality/threepersonjudicialbackroomdisfellowshippingwithextendedtimereinstatementprocess/etc doctrine in the gospels?
.......
What did Jesus talk about the most? What did he illustrate the most?
Love.
Being a Christian isn't about making up details and procedures like Pharisees and adhering to the manmade checklists for every little thing in the universe. It's about being loving, like Our Father is loving. (Jesus said his yoke was kindly and load light and refreshing.)
The person who has no clue about Bible prophecy and yet is super loving is closer to God than the person who knows every detail about prophecy and is cold or partial in love. The person who still ignorantly celebrates Christmas and slips up on their drinking problem but is humble and loving is closer to God than the person who "turns in their time" every month and gives a "perfect seamless talk" but is cold or partial in love.
It is not wrong to know all the details about Bible prophecy, that is a good thing we should seek for such knowledge, and it is good to discard pagan celebrations, of course, but the point is, we have to remember the more important things. Love is the most important thing.
God is not partial. He knows the hearts. He is a righteous judge. Jehovah is coming to make all things clear. Praise Jehovah.
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love."
(1 Corinthians 13)
God is Love. His children must love too. That's the resemblance, how people can say "you look just like your Father!" Jesus said so.
"Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples - when they see the love you have for each other."
(John 13:34,35 The Message Bible)
Jesus' love wasn't just for fellow Jews. It wasn't just for those in good standing with the Pharisees. It wasn't just for perfect people. Jesus showed love for those who were shunned and of other faiths. He commanded that we do the same.
"Now I am giving you a new command—love one another. Just as I have loved you, so you must love one another. This is how all men will know that you are my disciples, because you have such love for one another."
(John 13:34,35 JB Phillips Bible)
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17 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
This may be true, but as @Space Merchant said before and I guess here, if you can't recognize core teachings from what isn't core, you are going to have a problem, probably why he gave you that question about different faiths in the first place. You can see @Srecko Sostar's answer about the New Covanant (assuming it was conjured by the GB) vs @Arauna and SM's, both knowing where it originated from, and that is only ONE example. 🤭
Although False Christendom is near it's end, it takes a discerning individual to know what are the true identifying marks of a True Christian or a True faith vs marks of a false Christian or a false faith, this goes for those who ultimately have bad intentions, like people who falsify forgiveness before God while at the same time manipulate others for a gain, something I posted a while back.
At the end of the day, yes, some false teachings are to be cast aside but as Christians we were given a specific command, that we must do in this day and age. Doing so or refuse puts Christians on 2 seperate routes.
Jesus can discern all things. He will be a righteous judge.
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25 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
It is a simple question regarding what you posted in your conversation with @Arauna. So that is where the curiosity sits.
From what you posted before, you were implying that we worship the GB as if they were above God himself, even @Arauna raised a brow to it, and the other guy with the long name (can't "@" him for some reason) even questioned you. You then brought up a series of screens to imply worship of a religious kind, even compared using the Shintoist/Buddhism practitioners, even went as far as to use the English definition whereas if any of us already know "worship" has several meanings, just as @Space Merchant.
As for the articles listed in your screenshot, when you read it for context, shows something entirely different from what you were suggesting.
Example the first article in your screenshot, titled, Building a Strong Spiritual Family. When clicked and read through, the focus is helping to grow Spiritually, as a family and about children; them developing in this sense, in turn builds the family. The discreet slave, in this case, like the first century Christians, do what they can to provide in, in turn, assisting with the Spiritual growth of a child, Matthew 24:45-47, i.e. Bible study with kids, encouraging to read about God everyday, Joshua 1:8, just as Jesus had done as a child. Even in comparison, it is no different in a school board or committee (also a GB in that field) taking a similar role in the educational growth of a child. So, just as early Christians were thankful, even honored, of people like Paul and a few others, doesn't mean they were worshipped religiously like God. Same case today. There may be some who show way too much honor but never in their right mind would they replace the Most High for a follower on the same route as they are on. 🤷🏾♂️
I really, really, really wish you were right, @Equivocation - I wish it with all my heart, but unfortunately I know better - I know for a fact that most of the people in the organization do replace worship of Jehovah with worship of men. I will explain what I mean...
Jehovah said that we need to obey Jesus. Jesus said to show love for our neighbor.
The governing body says we need to obey what the GB says ahead of what Jesus says. The governing body says we need to show hate for our neighbor.
When people in the organization obey the disfellowshipping doctrine, they are obeying men rather than God. When people in the organization show hate to their fellow man by obeying the disfellowshipping doctrine, they are being anti-Christ.
It doesn't matter what the rest of any of those articles say, the point was that all the ones that mention the FDS/GB and "obey" and "be thankful" are weaving in false worship with true worship. It's the oldest trick in the book.
"Is it really so that God said you must not eat of every tree of the garden?"
(They learned it from their father.)
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3 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
Jesus made it clear
"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place..."
"Happy is the one who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy and who observe the things written in it, for the appointed time is near."
(Revelation 1:1,3)
Most of Revelation hasn't happened yet - Jesus hasn't taken the throne yet, the Devil hasn't been cast down yet, the plagues/horsemen haven't happened yet - when those things happen, Jesus will make it clear. Nobody will have to ask "I wonder what this means?" They'll know.
The religious institutions will be removed, the false doctrines cast aside, and then the light will shine brighter than ever. True worshippers of God will be gathered together as one for Jehovah's name, and they will worship in spirit and truth. Jehovah's name guarantees it.
"And you will defile the silver overlay of your graven images and the golden plating of your metal statues. You will cast them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Be gone!” And he will give the rain for the seed you sow in the ground, and the bread that the ground produces will be abundant and rich. In that day your livestock will graze in spacious pastures. And the cattle and the donkeys that work the ground will eat fodder seasoned with sorrel, which was winnowed with the shovel and the pitchfork. And on every tall mountain and on every high hill will be streams and watercourses, in the day of the great slaughter when the towers fall. And the light of the full moon will become like the light of the sun; and the light of the sun will become seven times stronger, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals the severe wound from the blow he inflicted."
(Isaiah 30:22-26)
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5 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
So why the assumption vs the article? 🤔.
This isn't the first time someone brought this up, I remember this being done in the past on here.
I am not sure what you are referring to - do you mind clarifying what you mean? I apologize for not really knowing what you are getting at.🙂
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17 minutes ago, Equivocation said:
@AudreyAnnaNana I mean, highlighted words is one thing to convey what you assume, but reading what the article(s) says for context is ANOTHER thing. For instance, even if you factor out faiths today, Jehovah God did have people, even a mediator that cares for the others in a spiritual sense, even provide if need be. Anyone of that level do not consider themselves as a God above or equal to Jehovah himself, likewise with the early Christians who provided for the Congregation, namely Paul, who would never ponder on something like that, so much so said the same thing concerning Jesus in comparison to God. Christians do however honor people taking the lead, as seen by early Christians and present day, but never do they religiously worship someone.
This is why it is important to read for context, read what is said and the verses used instead of adding what you assume. I can read an article about talking animals in the modern day, but the context of the article doesn't even suggest literal talking. And speaking on this, even my professors have stated that there are some people who only read titles or look for keywords to make an assumption on something without knowing what a story or an article is about.
Just be careful next time.
Hi, @Equivocation ! Do you mean the screenshots from the part of the discussion about worship, where we were talking about how the GB/FDS is worshipped in organization? I think that's what you're referring to...
If so, it is extremely likely that I have read all the highlighted publications in those screenshots from 2002 to the present (I started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses in 2001 and was baptized in 2002 and always religiously read everything that was published as it came out.) And I've gone back and read a lot of the older publications from prior to that time, but I can't say I've read every single article there (each of the screenshots have a handful of citations because they came up in that order in the jw search - it is up to the person looking at the screenshot to tell which articles apply to the conversation, most of them did).
I don't have to read them all to know the GB/elders are worshipped as gods. I already know the GB/elders are worshipped as idols or gods. I know what those articles are about because of the pattern of deception that is woven into them, where they are leading the flock. I wasn't making an assumption. I know from experience how those publications indoctrinate people to worship men ahead of God.
As far as "just be careful next time" you don't have to worry about me worshipfully bowing down to those men again (although I do appreciate your concern) - I am strongly determined to never ever make the mistake again of putting worship of men ahead of worship of God.☺️
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"The Tyger
BY WILLIAM BLAKE
Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night;
What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
In what distant deeps or skies.
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand, dare seize the fire?
And what shoulder, & what art,
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat.
What dread hand? & what dread feet?
What the hammer? what the chain,
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp.
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?
When the stars threw down their spears
And water'd heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?
Tyger Tyger burning bright,
In the forests of the night:
What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?"
Isaiah chapter 11 describes what happens after Jesus is enthroned as king in the very near future...
"The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy will lead them. The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull. The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra, And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake. They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea. In that day the root of Jesʹse will stand up as a signal for the peoples. To him the nations will turn for guidance, And his resting-place will become glorious. In that day Jehovah will again offer his hand, a second time, to reclaim the remnant of his people who are left from As·syrʹi·a, from Egypt, from Pathʹros, from Cush, from Eʹlam, from Shiʹnar, from Haʹmath, and from the islands of the sea. The jealousy of Eʹphra·im will be gone, And those who show hostility to Judah will be done away with. Eʹphra·im will not be jealous of Judah, Nor will Judah show hostility toward Eʹphra·im."
People from different religious backgrounds will see evidence of Christ ruling and Jesus will gather them together.
Jehovah can make the lions and tigers and bears as peaceful as lambs. How much more so He can bring together the right-hearted individuals from all denominations after the great tribulation begins!
"...and saw heaven opened and something descending like a great linen sheet being let down by its four corners on the earth; and in it were all sorts of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth and birds of heaven. Then a voice said to him: “Get up, Peter, slaughter and eat!” But Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because I have never eaten anything defiled and unclean.” And the voice spoke again to him, the second time: “Stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.”"
(Acts 10:11-15)
“Now I truly understand that God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."
(Acts 10:34,35)
After the religious institutions are destroyed, the right-hearted individuals will still remain. There will be a great gathering work to do during the time of the great tribulation. It's not just Jehovah's Witnesses, but believers out of all religions (and those who are not part of any religion but who will become interested in God) who will need to be comforted during the three and a half years of the great tribulation, when the UN is ruling with an iron fist. There is so much work to do ahead!
(But it's bedtime for me for now...goodnight!😌)
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Looking back in the thread it looks like "dancin by myself" some of the time except for the quotes from Manny are still there, lol!
Well, he must have gotten deleted for a good reason, so maybe now it's "safer to dance"...😆
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Aw, all my puppet friends always get deleted! Lol...
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Man, if that's persecution then I've got it easy, lol!😂
(I've been through some forms of persecution...I wouldn't call this persecution - it's playtime, kind of like that Whac-A-Mole game at the fair!)
- Pudgy, Srecko Sostar and Fausto Hoover
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2 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:
I'm talking about you. Can you guarantee before God you are not disfellowshiped?
Yes, I can guarantee you before God that He has not disfellowshipped me. ☺️ Got anymore personal questions? Lol...
"But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code."
(Romans 2:29)
"...received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children."
(Romans 8:15,16)
"By your relationship with him, you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands by stripping off the fleshly body, by the circumcision that belongs to the Christ."
(Colossians 2:11)
It's kinda personal to ask what it feels like to be "circumcised" - I mean, even for physical circumcision it's not something you go around asking people "hey, are you really circumcised?" But I don't mind talking about the circumcision of the heart if you really want to talk about that.
8 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:40 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."
This belongs to those that can't even say if they are disfelowshiped or not.
John describes those ones here:
"Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."
(1 John 2:18,19)
They were anointed and baptized into Christ, but they have been dis-fellowshipped from the Christ by means of their leaving the truth as taught by the Bible and instead teaching their false doctrines. Even though such ones may have a prominent position in the organization, they do not fool the Christ - he knows those belonging to him and when he comes everyone else will know too.
11 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:Jesus has already been made master of God's kingdom just like he has already been made head of the congregation. What's left is the implementation of God's kingdom on earth, which has yet to be realized, after the final judgment, this will occur.
Your words have failed to disprove this clear biblical confirmation for those who comprehend the mysteries.
The second post is another indicator you just proved your equal status to the pharisees. They couldn't give a straight answer either.
That you don't comprehend the sacred secret is clear to me, but by all means, continue with your presentation, this is entertaining. 😃
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1 hour ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:
The Pharisees used to accuse others of the things the Pharisees were actually guilty of. I wonder why they did that?
You just proved you equal status to the pharisees.
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1 hour ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:
By this reply, the answer is yes. You are disfellowshiped under God's law, and you are wishing to deceive me. It is unlikely that God will come to you personally to express his dissatisfaction with your worship. Especially when you are unwilling to tell the truth about your current status.
I have not deceived you, but the GB is deceiving people about many things, which will be very obvious to the entire world soon enough.
"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."
(2 Thessalonians 2:3,4)
"Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence."
(2 Thessalonians 2:8)
"The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen."
(Matthew 13:31-43)
When Jesus receives the kingdom shortly he will remove the lawless ones from the organization, those ones who are claiming to be "leaders" but are only leading the flock into falsehood. They have not been removed yet. They are still publicly showing themselves to be "gods" by means of their self-exaltation and misapplication of the illustration about a faithful and discreet slave - they turn it into a title, which is not what Jesus intended at all.
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12 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:
Then you disapprove of Christ's ministry along with the apostles. As far as I can see, the Elders and GB are not paid for their ministry as others spiritual leaders do within Christendom.
I can see you haven't done much research into the financial holdings of the organization.
- Fausto Hoover and Pudgy
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13 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
The Bible shows there would be some taking the lead in the congregation who deceived others by means of the operation of Satan. Satan, the ruler of the world, is the one who was behind the war in 1914. He was also the one behind the false prophecies about 1914, which is obvious, since it was based on pyramidology (duh - talk about demonic 🙄)
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."
(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
The Bible says that in the last days in the congregation there would be men who were like such false prophets... "having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men."
Here is an excerpt from an audio drama from the JW app that describes Jannes and Jambres...
They appeared to have powerful works, but it wasn't by means of Jehovah.
Similarly, the men in the organization who appeared to predict 1914 didn't do it by means of Jehovah. (Pyramidology isn't approved by Jehovah. It's from Jehovah's chief enemy.)
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By saying that the kingdom started in 1914 (even though it didn't) and by claiming to be representatives of that "invisible" kingdom, "stars in Jesus' hand", those taking the lead in the organization accumulated a mass of power and control over the lives of millions, and claimed to do it in the name of God.
(How do you think Jehovah feels about that?)
True, there has been good accomplished by the organization, just like there was good accomplished in Israel even though polygamy was tolerated and slavery was regulated and animals were sacrificed, but when Jesus gets here he's going to set things straight and a lot of what the congregations think is "normal" is going to be completely thrown out the window.
Praise Jehovah.😁
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15 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:
Since this doesn't prove what I was stating, what is the purpose of it?
🤣
17 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:4 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:Michael (Jesus) didn't take the kingdom in 1914. It's not until the time that the King of the North has come all way to his end that Jesus takes the throne. Putin is the King of the North. He's about to lose his throne, the Bible prophecies it. He will lose. Then the UN will rule as king for the end of the Daniel dream image.
I have not heard of an apostate disproving it. Can you?
Read Daniel chapter 4. There is not one thing in there about a modern fulfillment. There is not one thing in there about weeks of years or some kind of crazy cutting off of Israelite rulership with the Messiah coming in a mysterious numerology puzzle.
Jesus said his kingdom was no part of this world, if it was the Jews would have fought that he not be delivered up. Why would the line of mostly corrupt Jewish kings stand for the heavenly government? The "rulership interrupted" theory that the Watchtower teaches is flawed. Jesus said his kingdom was not of the Jewish line.
Putin is the King of the North. He wasn't born yet in 1914. Daniel chapters 11 and 12 show us that Jesus would get the throne in heaven around the time the King of the North was coming to his end, so obviously it wasn't in 1914 or even in the 1950s or at any point from 1900-1999 because Putin didn't become a leader until the 2000s, and not until recently does he seem to have no helper but he still hasn't come to his end yet.
24 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:Keep in mind, Satan has loyal subjects that have succumbed to his influence on earth. It is believed that the devil has his agents on earth who spread false information and deceive the followers of God. These representatives of evil aim to corrupt the hearts of those who are loyal to God by spreading lies and manipulation. It is crucial to remain vigilant and rooted in faith to avoid falling prey to their schemes. That is the purpose of the devil just like it was done in the garden.
I wouldn't call any of Satan's subjects "loyal"...they are selfish and get something out of sticking with him, but it's not out of loyalty that they do it.
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
The Bible shows there would be some taking the lead in the congregation who deceived others by means of the operation of Satan. Satan, the ruler of the world, is the one who was behind the war in 1914. He was also the one behind the false prophecies about 1914, which is obvious, since it was based on pyramidology (duh - talk about demonic 🙄)
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."
(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
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1 minute ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:
Am I correct you are disfellowshiped under God's law?
No, you are not correct. Jehovah's holy spirit is evidence that I still have fellowship with Him by means of His Son.
"I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all."
(John 15:5)
"For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children."
(Romans 8:13-16)
"I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit..."
(Romans 9:1)
6 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:If I'm correct, then this would apply to you as a deceiver of the truth.
The Pharisees used to accuse others of the things the Pharisees were actually guilty of. I wonder why they did that?
8 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:Faithful members of the 144,000 will not go to bed with the world by means of compromising Christ's teachings in order to gain some kind of prominence or fleshly benefit for themselves.
By this statement, you are charging the apostles and those Jesus commissioned with false worship. Can you provide proof other than your words?
I thought that's what you were doing - charging honest people with false worship. What "commission" are you talking about specifically? Here is what the scriptures say about false shepherds in the congregation...
"...certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."
(Jude 4)
"Too bad for them, for they have followed the path of Cain and have rushed into the erroneous course of Baʹlaam for reward, and they have perished in the rebellious talk of Korʹah! These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds who feed themselves without fear; waterless clouds carried here and there by the wind; fruitless trees in late autumn, having died twice and having been uprooted; wild waves of the sea that cast up the foam of their own shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackest darkness stands reserved forever."
(Jude 11-13)
12 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:Since it appears your allegations stem from a false presentation, can you prove the GB are being worshiped as Gods?
(It's so funny how you keep describing your character with every line! "False presentation"😆 I think @Pudgy said we'd get an award or something...I think it's a reward to play this game, it's fun😃)
The Bible says we must be thankful to Jehovah and obey God as ruler rather than man when men tell us something that is not in harmony with God's will. Here is what the publications say...
(There were more, but I got bored...)
22 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:Then, you, disapprove of Judas Iscariot carrying the money bag, and having people wash the feet of the apostles, feed and house them? Do you believe those people didn't voluntarily gave, of themselves?
I believe what is written in God's Word:
"Now we are giving you instructions, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother who is walking disorderly and not according to the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you should imitate us, because we did not behave in a disorderly way among you, nor did we eat anyone’s food free. On the contrary, by labor and toil we were working night and day so as not to impose an expensive burden on any one of you. Not that we do not have authority, but we wanted to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate. In fact, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.” For we hear that some are walking disorderly among you, not working at all, but meddling with what does not concern them. To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn. For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed. And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."
(2 Thessalonians 3:6-15)
I don't know about those other people today who claimed to be commissioned, but the Bible shows that Jesus directly commissioned Paul.
Paul said those doing the work should earn their own keep. If they didn't, they were to be marked as disorderly and withdrawn from. The whole "marking" business wasn't the way it is in the congregation today - "marking" meant noticing somebody who wanted to be catered to at the expense of the congregation, like the circuit overseers and Bethelites and GB today. We should keep admonishing those ones as brothers to get a job and stop mooching off others.
Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's
in Topics
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Here are some screenshots from the articles you cited🙂...
Jesus' illustration about a faithful slave was part of a set of illustrations talking about keeping on the watch. All Christians are commanded to keep on the watch. Jesus was NOT using that expression as a title or a label or a prophecy about a certain group of leaders. Jesus said "all you are brothers" and "call no one Rabbi or Leader for One is your Leader, God". When someone called Jesus "Good Teacher" he did not accept such a label. Why would Jesus have given such a title as "His Eminence, Most Holy Pope" or "Benevolent Leader" or "Faithful and Discreet Slave" to a man or a group of imperfect men who he told to stamp themselves down and behave as lowly ones? Here's the answer: Jesus didn't give them that title. They took it upon themselves. Shame on them. And shame on them for poisoning the publications with that teaching mixed in with God's Word.
Jesus didn't set up special schools. The Pharisees had special schools. Jesus didn't set up special publications. The Pharisees had special publications. The arrangement for a commune funded by "voluntary" donations is not scripturally based. The first century Christians were commanded to work for what they ate and not to live off of others. "If he doesn't work, let him not eat." Those who disobeyed such direction were to be marked and avoided. According to Paul's counsel, the Bethelites and the GB and the COs should all be marked and avoided. Certainly most of them are just ignorant to what the Bible teaches, but if they were to reread that chapter where Paul is talking about marking in context they would see it is completely misapplied by the organization. It is their behavior that should be shunned and avoided.
Jehovah's Word says to take care of your family first. "For if anyone doesn't take care of his family, he is worse than one who disowns the faith." The organization says to work less and volunteer more for their assets, more recently in the building work for projects that they own and can sell. Jesus said such "corban" like arrangements actually negate the sacrifice in God's eyes.
Jesus taught without movies or books or magazines. He is the one we should follow. (It's not wrong to use such tools, but it shouldn't be put on a level that comes at the cost of sacrificing obedience to the more important things.) Jesus drove out the money-makers from the temple. He said they were making his Father's house a cave of robbers. That's what these guys at Watchtower are doing. They are robbers pretending to use the money for good things. If they were really using the funds well, then they would provide an accounts report, just like the local congregations do. "The righteous one is not afraid of coming to the light, but the wicked one does not come to the light, that his works may not be exposed."
The Watchtower begs for money from poor people and then says they're not begging. Do you know any other publication that so blatantly asks for funds in this way? At least they could be honest about it and say, please give us your money. Instead they attempt to guilt the friends by putting a bunch of scriptures first and at the ends saying it's like giving to God. Giving to them is not giving to God, it's paying for room and board and healthcare and lawsuits for a bunch of guys that are pulling the wool over the eyes of about 9 million or so people. "Give us your coconuts!!!"
Here is a link to another thread that has some information on some financial holdings of the organization...
And interestingly enough, if you want to talk to anybody at Bethel over the phone about anything of importance it is almost impossible. I've tried. But chances are you can get through every time if you want to call the number to give money.
The organization is asking the friends to give something that Jesus doesn't require. The GB are money lovers. They are cultivating their business in those articles. It's the same thing the Pharisees did.
"No servant can be a slave to two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves to God and to Riches.” Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him. So he said to them: “You are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight."
(Luke 16:13-15)