John 12.24to28

5 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Is it satisfying to repeat this carelessness and hatred every chance you get without proving any of your words? Who are you again?

I am not anybody special, but I know who I am and where I am going. Who are you?🤭

"I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you.  And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him."

(1 John 2:26,27)

"And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”"

(Revelation 5:9,10)

"And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth.  These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."

(Revelation 14,3-5)

"Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God."

(James 4:4)

Faithful members of the 144,000 will not go to bed with the world by means of compromising Christ's teachings in order to gain some kind of prominence or fleshly benefit for themselves.

The GB says that only they are "the Faithful and Discreet Slave" a channel from God and then they teach a mixture of true/false to the flock.

God's Word says anointed ones understand truth by means of God's holy spirit poured out through Christ Jesus.

The GB is standing as gods in the House of God. They are asleep and do not realize the judgment that is swiftly approaching them by means of the UN, the instrument of God's wrath against false religions, including those who teach false doctrines among God's Name People.

When God anoints a person with holy spirit, that person is under obligation to bear witness to the truth, sharing the truth with others. An anointed person is not supposed to set themselves up to be served and ministered to by slaves who will clean their room and serve them food and send them voluntary donations.

"For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.  They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.  You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry."

(2 Timothy 4:3-5)

1 minute ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Then the UN will rule as king for the end of the Daniel dream image.

"And just as you saw the feet and the toes to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay.  And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile.  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay."

(Daniel 2:41-43)

The toes are not "the politically divided world in the time of the end" as the Watchtower/GB says. The toes of the image are the UN when they are given more power after Satan is cast out of heaven.

We are not "at the end of the toenails" yet. We are not "at the end of the end of the end of the last days". We aren't even at the toes yet.

The good news is that when we do reach the toes, it's only for 3 1/2 years.

5 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

5 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Jesus is coming to remove all false teachings and those who will not repent of practicing them. Jesus did not start ruling in 1914. When gets in power in the kingdom, everyone will know, because he'll throw Satan out of heaven, the UN will attack religion, the UN will be the world power for 3 1/2 years (it's the toe part of the Daniel dream image. That part hasn't happened yet. We're not in "the last of the last of the last days"...) There are still over 3 1/2 years to go in this system.

Is it satisfying to repeat this carelessness and hatred every chance you get without proving any of your words? Who are you again?

"And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him."

(Daniel 11:45)

The verse at Daniel 11:45 is in the process of taking place. The King of the North has not come all the way to his end yet, but almost.

"During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time."

(Daniel 12:1)

Michael (Jesus) didn't take the kingdom in 1914. It's not until the time that the King of the North has come all way to his end that Jesus takes the throne. Putin is the King of the North. He's about to lose his throne, the Bible prophecies it. He will lose. Then the UN will rule as king for the end of the Daniel dream image.

"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.  I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"

(Revelation 12:7-10)

Revelation and Daniel both show that when the Devil is cast down, the UN takes power and destroys religion. It will be for a time, times, and half a time that the nations rule as the UN (3 1/2 years).

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

5 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

The organization claims that Russell and Rutherford and other past "leaders" are now immortal spirits in heaven, likely assisting the organization on earth.

Now I understand why WTJWorg has an increasingly confusing theology.., and it's only going to get worse if they all of them in heaven keep arguing over interpretations and who is smarter and greater among them.

"But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness,  and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them.  These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some."

(2 Timothy 2:16-18)

The GB teaching that Russell and Rutherford and Peter and Paul and the others are already in heaven is a false teaching. The resurrection hasn't happened yet. Those dead guys can't fight about anything for now. 

"...there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave..."

(Ecclesiastes 9:10)

Soon Jesus will take the throne and remove the weeds.😃

"When the wicked sprout like weeds

And all the wrongdoers flourish,

It is that they may be annihilated forever."

(Psalm 92:7)

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

JWTV viewers should ask themselves; Can and should one imitate the faith of a TV preacher? GB has found an excellent way to spread manipulation. They have criticized TV preachers in the past.

 

TV Evangelism—God’s Way?

If Jesus Christ were on earth today, asserted TV evangelist Jim Bakker, “he’d have to be on TV.” Why television? Because, according to Bakker, “that would be the only way he could reach the people he loves.” Like Bakker, an increasing number of fundamentalist preachers in the United States feel that television is the best medium for spreading the Word of God. Yet, a 1984 study showed that, for the most part, TV evangelists “reinforce people already committed to evangelical religion.”

Interestingly, in a letter to the editor of the magazine Ministry, one reader wrote: “You said they [television sets] are the church’s most powerful gospel seed-sowing tools, and yet God says the most essential work is house-to-house visitation—soul hunting. . . . Our Saviour loved to get away from the multitude, and then He went from house to house—soul hunting. The one-soul audience was His delight. . . . Can we not do the same?”

According to Jesus Christ, the purpose of the Christian ministry was not just to ‘spread the Word’ but to “make disciples.” (Matthew 28:19, 20) He directed his followers to go to people’s homes. (Matthew 10:7, 11-13) The apostle Paul accepted this preaching method and said regarding his ministry: “I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house.” The personalized house-to-house ministry of the disciples reaped good results.—Acts 5:42; 20:20.

If Jesus laid such emphasis on this method of preaching in order to make disciples, why do many evangelists prefer TV as their medium? The Courier-Mail of Brisbane, Australia, notes that TV evangelists “make up to $120 million a year selling salvation. They appear in a blaze of electrified power and glory on 300 TV stations, and are worshipped like pop idols. . . . For all their tactics, these men who claim to manipulate even God, come down in the end to a straight business deal. Send them $10 and they will send you to heaven.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1986845?q=religion+on+tv&p=par  WATCHTOWER 1986

 

Religion on TV

● “Religious programming has proliferated enormously in the past decade,” reports The Plain Dealer. A two-week survey in 40 U.S. cities turned up 18,845 religious programs broadcast during that period. “These included everything from worship services to game shows, cartoons, variety shows and even soap operas with a religious theme,” says the paper. “Analysis of the programs found that characters were disproportionately male, white and middle-class. Characters who worked for the church were overwhelmingly male; so were the wealthy and the powerful.” Solicitations for money were also common. “During an average hour, viewers are asked to donate or buy products valued at $189.52,” the article states. “Programs featuring a preacher or a revival meeting plead the most; they ask for an average of $328.78 an hour.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101984289 AWAKE 1984

RELIGION GOES “ON THE AIR”

One of the factors limiting attendance at church has been the invention of devices to carry entertainment into the home. Especially true is this of the newest device, television. Of 190 ministers surveyed in the Louisville, Kentucky, area late in 1952, “most agreed that video was serious competition for the church: In 50 congregations, attendance at evening services has dropped 10 per cent.” So, not to be outdone in this progressive age, religion has gone “on the air.”

Jumping at the first opportunity, they opened their “air-borne” assault in 1949, over the Du Mont television network, with the “Morning Chapel” program, featuring leaders of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish faiths. By November of 1953 interest in religious TV was so great that the Lutheran Church’s “This Is the Life” dramatization could lay claim to being “by far the most widely telecast program in the world,” broadcast by approximately 125 American TV stations, shown throughout Canada and regularly featured by the British Broadcasting Corporation. Later, on January 31, this year, Catholic Bishop Fulton J. Sheen’s “Life Is Worth Living” edged out the Lutheran program, tallying up over 169 stations, to gain first place on the networks. The Catholic Herald, of January 8, claimed over 15 million listeners for the bishop. Today, rather than religion’s being on the defensive against secular TV, the reverse is true. Milton Berle, Sid Caesar, Hopalong Cassidy and company have gained a most unusual competitor, the church. -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1954805?q=religion+on+tv&p=par WATCHTOWER 1954

Jesus said the leaven would ferment the whole lump, and that the wheat and the weeds would grow together. While there are some very good and useful parts of the videos, there are also some weeds and leaven that are spread along with them. My family has benefited very much from the jw.org videos, but we have also been hurt by them.

Now that our eyes are opened to the fact that not everything in those videos programs are true, it's easier to disregard the false teachings in them and recognize the parts that are Biblically based.

(But it makes me sick watching people gulp them down whole as if everything in them was "the gospel truth"! I used to do the same thing, so I understand why it happens. I'll be glad when Jesus comes and removes all the weeds/leaven.)

3 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Is it satisfying to repeat this carelessness and hatred every chance you get without proving any of your words? Who are you again?

I can prove that the elders arrangement is not practiced according to scripture.

According to the verses we talked about in Hebrews 13:7,17, a true leader and shepherd will guard and protect the flock.

Let's just say you become aware of a situation in the congregation. The COBE invites a new (six months studying the Bible) 24 year old female Bible student move in with him and his wife because he tells her she needs a father figure, her mom is disfellowshipped and not good association. He tells her to take some drugs that make her sedated and she refuses, instead flushing them down the toilet. He says what she did was bad and she needs to be punished by stripping off the lower portion of her clothing so he can strike her repeatedly with a wooden paddle he has made for the purpose. He and his wife tell her not to tell others in the congregation because they won't understand, and she thinks he and his wife represent God's will because that's what they teach in the congregation "the elders are stars in Jesus' hands". The young woman submits to the ordeal and from that point on submissively takes the drugs and obeys whatever they tell her.

Years later, the woman tells on the guy, worried he might do something similar to others in the congregation, since she observes him doing other really sketchy things and he is serving as the COBE and HLC coordinator and has children in and out of his home.

When the woman tells the elders, they say "it was just a form of corporal punishment." The woman's baptized husband gets angry she told on the COBE, he gets drunk and then arrested for domestic assault. The elders don't think the husband's behavior is unacceptable behavior. He doesn't get in trouble with them, even though the state says the man cannot come home for a year because of what he did. When the woman sends videos of his abusive behavior to the elders they say  "I don't see anything wrong with that, you probably did something to upset him." When the baptized children offer their testimony, the elders say "we can't accept their testimony since they aren't old enough to testify." The elders, the service department, the COs, the GB, they all think abuse is acceptable behavior. They do not remove the COBE. They do not apologize. Instead when the woman warns the others in the congregation or chooses to not hang out with the COBE and his wife because of their active harassment (the COBE and his wife and the abusive husband team up and bear false witness to the DHHS in order to try to get custody of the children - unsuccessfully since the DHHS sees through the ruse), the woman is disfellowshipped. She is told it is a form of reviling to tell the truth, and it is causing divisions to warn others or ask for help and to protect her children by calling the police when attacked.

Does it sound to you that the elders and GB are "leaders" who really want to "protect the flock"? 

34 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I find it important that in 8 hours and thousands of words later, no one here with WDS has refuted my post of 8 hours ago.

(I think the current WDS doctrine is maybe that apologizing is a form of apostasy from Pharisaical teaching and a disfellowshipping offense?)

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

11 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

showing why the GB should not be worshipped...

what do you call worship?

"Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. It may involve one or more of activities such as veneration, adoration, praise, and praying. For many, worship is not about an emotion, it is more about a recognition of a God or gods." Wikipedia

The manner of "worship" of the governing body is similar to what happens in Shinto religion...

From "Mankind's Search for God" chapter 8

"10. What is of vital importance to Shintoists?

What, then, is of vital importance to Shintoists? “Originally,” says a book on Japanese culture, “Shinto considered acts that promoted the harmony and livelihood of a small community as ‘good’ and those that hindered such as ‘bad.’” Harmony with gods, nature, and the community was considered to be of superlative value. Anything that disrupted the peaceful harmony of the community was bad regardless of its moral value.

11. What role do festivals play in Shinto worship and daily life?

Since Shinto has no formal doctrine or teaching, its way of promoting the harmony of the community is through rituals and festivals. “What is most important in Shintoism,” explains the encyclopedia Nihon Shukyo Jiten, “is whether we celebrate festivals or not.” (See box, page 193.) Feasting together at festivals around ancestral gods contributed to a cooperative spirit among people in the rice-growing community. Major festivals were and still are related to rice cultivation. In the spring, village people call upon the “god of the paddies” to come down to their village, and they pray for a good crop. In the fall, they thank their gods for the harvest. During festivals, they carry their gods around on a mikoshi, or portable shrine, and have communion of rice wine (sake) and food with the gods.

12. What kind of purification rites are performed in Shinto, and for what purpose?

To be in union with the gods, however, Shintoists believe that they must be cleansed and purified from all their moral impurity and sin. This is where rituals come in. There are two ways to purify a person or an object. One is oharai and the other is misogi. In oharai, a Shinto priest swings a branch of the evergreen sakaki tree with paper or flax tied to its tip to purify an item or a person, whereas in misogi, water is used. These purification rituals are so vital to the Shinto religion that one Japanese authority states: “It may safely be said that without these rituals, Shinto cannot stand [as a religion].”

The organization claims that Russell and Rutherford and other past "leaders" are now immortal spirits in heaven, likely assisting the organization on earth.

(In contrast, the Bible shows that at present the only person who has been resurrected to heaven is Jesus.)

There is a form of reverence for those "departed ancestors" which is manifested in the publications produced by the org.

Anyone who is not in harmony with the traditions of the org is considered "bad". The traditions of meetings/ministry/service/Bethel/convention/Memorial/elders are considered more important than substance of following Christ every day.

If you listen to the prayers at a meeting/convention, the comments during a meeting or the teaching from a talk, you will hear many phrases of adulation and praise for "the Faithful and Discreet Slave" or "the Governing Body" or something similar, rather than praise for Jehovah. You will hear reference to "the Watchtower says" and "the Insight book says" and "Brother so-and-so says" instead of "It is written in God's Word" or "Jehovah says".

Even the words of the songbook have phrases praising the elders and "the Faithful Steward". It's sickening how the flock has been imbibing these poisoned waters.

Jesus warned that such idolatrous teachings would creep into the congregation and still be in existence when he arrives...

“‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, who taught Baʹlak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.  In the same way, you also have those adhering to the teaching of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus.  So repent. If you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will war against them with the long sword of my mouth."

"‘Nevertheless, I do hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols.  And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality.  Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.  And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds."

(Revelation 2:14-16, 20-23)

The GB/Bethel/elderworship teachings are a form of idolatry. When the GB/Bethel/elders cut out people who adhere to the Bible the GB/Bethel/elders are acting like Jezebel, who used her authority to cut off God's faithful servants. When the GB/Bethel/elders use their authority to lord it over the flock and gain prominence or worship for themself or free room and board they are acting like Balaam, who served for profit. (Paul ordered the people to not pay for ministers, to not have those who take advantage of the flock in that way. Paul said they should work for what they eat. The Bethel arrangement is an abomination to God.) 

Jesus is coming to remove all false teachings and those who will not repent of practicing them. Jesus did not start ruling in 1914. When gets in power in the kingdom, everyone will know, because he'll throw Satan out of heaven, the UN will attack religion, the UN will be the world power for 3 1/2 years (it's the toe part of the Daniel dream image. That part hasn't happened yet. We're not in "the last of the last of the last days"...) There are still over 3 1/2 years to go in this system.

5 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

The apostle Paul was a "leader" in the sense mentioned in Hebrews 13:17. He personally came to the congregations and stayed for extended periods of time. When he wrote letters, he knew the members of the flock by name because he had worked side by side with them, ate with them, talked with them personally.

How do you know? Can you prove Paul or any other apostles including Jesus knew everyone by name?

Romans 16:1-15

"I am introducing to you Phoeʹbe, our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cenʹchre·ae,  so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, for she herself also proved to be a defender of many, including me. Give my greetings to Prisʹca and Aqʹui·la, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,  who have risked their own necks for me and to whom not only I but also all the congregations of the nations give thanks.  Also greet the congregation that is in their house. Greet my beloved E·paeʹne·tus, who is a firstfruits of Asia for Christ.  Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.  Greet An·dronʹi·cus and Juʹni·as, my relatives and fellow prisoners, who are men well-known to the apostles and who have been in union with Christ longer than I have. Give my greetings to Am·pli·aʹtus, my beloved in the Lord. Greet Ur·baʹnus, our fellow worker in Christ, and my beloved Staʹchys.  Greet A·pelʹles, the approved one in Christ. Greet those from the household of A·ris·tobʹu·lus.  Greet He·roʹdi·on, my relative. Greet those from the household of Nar·cisʹsus who are in the Lord.  Greet Try·phaeʹna and Try·phoʹsa, women who are working hard in the Lord. Greet Perʹsis, our beloved one, for she has worked hard in the Lord.  Greet Ruʹfus, the chosen one in the Lord, and his mother and mine.  Greet A·synʹcri·tus, Phleʹgon, Herʹmes, Patʹro·bas, Herʹmas, and the brothers with them.  Greet Phi·lolʹo·gus and Julia, Neʹreus and his sister, and O·lymʹpas, and all the holy ones with them."

Colossians 4:14-17

"Luke, the beloved physician, sends you his greetings, and so does Deʹmas.  Give my greetings to the brothers in La·o·di·ceʹa and to Nymʹpha and to the congregation at her house.  And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa.  Also, tell Ar·chipʹpus: “Pay attention to the ministry that you accepted in the Lord, in order to fulfill it.”

2 Timothy 4:19-21

"Give my greetings to Prisʹca and Aqʹui·la and the household of On·e·siphʹo·rus. E·rasʹtus stayed in Corinth, but I left Trophʹi·mus sick at Mi·leʹtus.  Do your utmost to arrive before winter. Eu·buʹlus sends you his greetings, and so do Puʹdens and Liʹnus and Clauʹdi·a and all the brothers."

9 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

9 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Here is confirmation from the scripture in Hebrews 13:17 showing why the GB should not be worshipped...

I'm sorry to say that this evidence is not enough to refute the argument. 

9 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Do the members of the governing body know you by name? Do the people at the branch? In the service department?

Should they? What does this have to do with their service to God?

9 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Not just a name on a piece of paper or a computer screen, but by name as in they know you, they keep awake to guard your soul and consider you part of their assignment, interacting with you personally on a regular basis? Not likely. It is not possible for an imperfect man who is living that far away from a congregation to take care of the sheep in that way. It's the local brothers if they shepherd properly, not the GB, who are to be obeyed in the sense of this verse.

Do you believe the President of the United States knows your name and function in life? This is far reaching.

I am not saying it's unscriptural to have a governing body with some administrative or judicial functions. I am saying just talking about that verse in Hebrews 13:17 about what  "leaders" means in context, since that verse gets misused by the GB so that they can wield more authority than is proper, to the point where they get people thrown out of the congregations and mislead the flock to imbibe false teachings.

The apostle Paul was a "leader" in the sense mentioned in Hebrews 13:17. He personally came to the congregations and stayed for extended periods of time. When he wrote letters, he knew the members of the flock by name because he had worked side by side with them, ate with them, talked with them personally.

An "administrator" is different than the word "leader" as described at Hebrews 13:17. 

What the GB does and what Bethel does is more like being administrators. Hebrews 13:17 does not apply to that role the way it was written.

The group of men in Jerusalem in the first century who were like a type of governing body, they did not dictate the day to day affairs of the congregation.  They were there for assistance when a matter came up regarding whether a tradition leftover from the Mosaic Law was scripturally necessary. They did not act as a centralized government publishing law for the congregations. The congregation shepherds already had a law: the Law of the Christ. The congregation shepherds had the scriptures. The congregation shepherds had Bible-trained consciences. 

Obviously, there were a lot of problems in the congregations, but it was the local shepherds who were referred to in that verse (13:17) and also a few verses earlier in Hebrews 13:7:

"Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith."

It says "among you". The governing body wasn't "among" the local congregations. There was no first century "JW Broadcasting". The verse says about those taking the lead among them to "contemplate how their conduct turns out" and to "imitate their faith". In order to contemplate their conduct, the people would have to see those "leaders" on a regular basis. In order to imitate their faith, they'd have to be around them to see that faith in action.

It wasn't just Paul the verse was talking about as regards "leaders". It was the everyday shepherds among the sheep. "Those taking the lead" isn't about following the GB/FDS. It's about trusting good men in the local congregation.

After the apostles died off, the congregations began to apostatize. The governing body today takes its pattern from the apostate Pharisaical authoritarianism of that era of apostasy.  

27 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Can you prove which man-made doctrines you are referring to?

Yes, but maybe tomorrow, I'm a little sleepy now. 🥱😌

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If the resurrected do not want to accept GB theology then what will become of them?

Then they get a prize! 😃

"Let no man deprive you of the prize who takes delight in a false humility and a form of worship of the angels, “taking his stand on” the things he has seen. He is actually puffed up without proper cause by his fleshly frame of mind,  and he is not holding fast to the head, to the one through whom the whole body is supplied and harmoniously joined together by means of its joints and ligaments and made to grow with the growth that is from God."

(Colossians 2:18,19)

The treatment of the GB as if they are higher or like "angels" with some kind of superpowers is not what Jesus had in mind for the congregation. Jesus is the head of the congregation, not a committee of imperfect men.

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

What she is saying - use your imagination in this case - is that any contract needs two parties.  I one receives Holy spirit by Jehovah to become and anointed, one has to partake of the emblems to close the contract. Then it is a two-sided contract and not just from one side.

No, that's not what I'm saying.🙂 Close but not quite.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Taking the symbol of bread and wine is a JW practice once a year. From your interpretation, it means that they reaffirm the same contract every year. That's a little funny.

@Srecko Sostar is right, that's a little funny. 

Partaking of the emblems has nothing to do with closing the contract. The contract was "closed" or "confirmed" or "signed" when Jehovah accepted the value of Jesus' sacrifice. The partaking of the emblems by anointed ones is just a symbol, a way they can show obedience, but even if an anointed one never in their life had access to bread and wine to celebrate the Memorial, that covenant would still be in place because it was put in place by Jehovah a long time ago. 

The Bible shows each individual member of the 144,000 has to remain faithful to the finish of their life course on earth in order to realize the application of the new covenant. Being obedient to Jesus' command to partake of the emblems once a year is one small part of being faithful, but the majority of the course of faithfulness is a lot more difficult than merely taking a bite of bread and a sip of wine, just as the course is difficult for all of Christ's followers regardless of whether they are anointed or not.

"Always we endure in our body the death-dealing treatment that Jesus suffered, that the life of Jesus may also be made manifest in our body."

(2 Corinthians 4:10)

"I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and I am undergoing the tribulations of the Christ that are yet lacking in my flesh in behalf of his body, which is the congregation."

(Colossians 1:24)

"Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which Christ Jesus selected me.  Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead,  I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.  Therefore, let those of us who are mature be of this mental attitude, and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you.  At any rate, to the extent we have made progress, let us go on walking orderly in this same course."

(Philippians 3:12-15)

15 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

In Jehovah's organization, no one pays homage to the Elders or the anointed. People who are not familiar with the situation tend to have a different perspective. Now, if you want to refute scripture in Hebrews 13:17, then please submit your proof.

 

Here is confirmation from the scripture in Hebrews 13:17 showing why the GB should not be worshipped...

"Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they are on the alert night and day in behalf of your souls, expecting to have to account for them; in order that they may do that with gladness, not with groans, for this would not pay you."

(Hebrews 13:17, Byington)

"Be yielding unto them who are guiding you and submit yourselves; For they are watching over your souls as having an account to render, That with joy the same they may be doing and not with sighing,—For unprofitable unto you were this."

(Hebrews 13:17, Rotherham)

"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."

(Hebrews 13:17, NWT)

"Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?"

(Hebrews 13:17, The Message Bible)

There is a difference between a "leader" in the Christian congregation and a "stranger" in the Christian congregation.

The above verses qualify what a "leader" looks like: 

(1) "Alert night and day in behalf of your souls"

(2) "Guiding you"

(3) "Taking the lead among you"

(4) "Pastoral leaders" who give "counsel" and are "alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God."

Can a group of men who live far far away from the local congregation truly be alert night and day in behalf of our souls? Is it possible for a shepherd to keep watch over the local flock if he is living in another state or another country? It is not possible. A true "leader" according to this verse is one who personally knows the sheep and who personally stays awake to guard the soul of that sheep and who is among the sheep on a regular basis. The men at Bethel are not "leaders" they are "strangers". Just because their face is on the video screen doesn't mean they know us. They are strangers to us.

"...the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.  The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.  They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

(John 10:2-5)

If a man doesn't know each sheep by name, then he is not the leader of that sheep, he is a stranger. Jesus said to Not Listen to Strangers.

Do the members of the governing body know you by name? Do the people at the branch? In the service department? Not just a name on a piece of paper or a computer screen, but by name as in they know you, they keep awake to guard your soul and consider you part of their assignment, interacting with you personally on a regular basis? Not likely. It is not possible for an imperfect man who is living that far away from a congregation to take care of the sheep in that way. It's the local brothers if they shepherd properly, not the GB, who are to be obeyed in the sense of this verse.

The local brothers who know the flock should have the flexibility to use their Bible trained consciences and good judgment to help the local sheep. The local shepherds should not be hamstrung by having to adhere to made up stuff coming down from headquarters people who have no clue what is going on locally. 

Can a man run his family from overseas? Will his family function well that way? Those men in Bethel have no business making themselves out to be "leaders" from so far away. That's not the way Jesus set things up.

The GB/Bethel has become the clergy class of the organization. They are paid. (How much does your room and board and insurance and medical care cost you? How much does it cost them?) They dictate manmade doctrines and enforce them with a ban against anyone who doesn't bow down. That is not what is supposed to happen according to Hebrews 13:17.

Sheep will obey a real shepherd. The real shepherds get punished by the GB when they follow the example of the Christ and use thinking ability rather than flowcharts/elder manual. Jesus is coming to remedy the situation soon. Thank God.

The new covenant is not the same as the cleansing of all mankind by means of the ransom. Anyone who wants can benefit from the ransom blood by means of faith in the Christ and obeying him. A person does not need to be in the new covenant in order to benefit from the ransom.

In ancient times under the Mosaic Law, the priests had to be installed before the other sacrifices could be made for the people.

There were many sacrifices made during the time the priesthood was being installed. Later, those priests were used to make the animal sacrifices apply for the others in the nation.

Jesus is the sacrifice for all of us. But not all of us have to be "installed as priests". The new covenant is just like the installation part. All the sacrifices under the law pointed to Jesus, so his blood ransoms all of us. But the specific new covenant contract is to convert the 144,000 into a new creation so they can fill that role as priests. They have to be spirit creatures in order to be priests.

Jesus is a ransom for all mankind, not just the 144,000. Jesus is the redeemer for all mankind. His blood is necessary to cleanse all mankind. The new covenant is part of the process Jehovah will use to carry out the application of the blessings, but it doesn't mean the 144,000 are "the way to Christ" or "the way to God". They aren't. Jesus is the high priest, the second Adam, the Way, the Amen, the only ransom blood, the Lamb.

Someone anointed to be one of the 144,000 can share certain insights on what Jehovah's holy spirit reveals as far as understanding certain scriptures when it is Jehovah's time to reveal them, but none of them should be "followed" or treated any different from any other person. Any correct understanding they have isn't from their own merit. If they are right on something, it's only because Jehovah used them as a messenger, and He can use the dirt, so it's no reason to be overly exalted or anything.

1 hour ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

After all said and done. Your conclusion is with 1 new covenant for all. Just like everyone has been commenting on.

No, not 1 new covenant for all. 

This is just an illustration...

A man moves overseas to work. He becomes a citizen of the new land. He wants his fiancee to come live with him in the new land. The law in that land is that in order to get married, she must become a citizen first. They don't have any kids yet, so the kids don't have to become citizens.

When the couple does get married and have kids, the children are born in the new country, so they don't need to "become" citizens. They are born citizens of that country.

The 144,000 have to become a new creation in order to "marry" Jesus and live in heaven. The new covenant is a contract for them to become citizens of heaven. The other sheep will never live in heaven, so they don't need to be part of the new covenant like that. The other sheep don't need to become citizens of heaven because they will be living on earth.

Since Jesus replaces Adam, the "missing link" between God and men will be filled once again. At that point, Jesus will heal all the earthly "children". By the end of the 1000 years, they will be perfect and God will come to earth again just like He did when Adam and Eve were perfect.

The other sheep will always live here. They don't need to become part of a covenant in order to live here.

The new covenant isn't about who gets what blessing. The new covenant is just about changing from one creature into another creature. The 144,000 humans change into non-humans, because in order to work in the kingdom arrangement they can't be humans anymore. They have to give that up. No more sexual relations. They can visit but not procreate that way, it's off limits for them in the future. 

That's part of why the "wisdom from above" is "first of all chaste." The things the 144,000 are going to be trusted with demand that they keep proper respect for boundaries.

2 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Perhaps you should self-dignoise. I find people are capable of seeing their own faults.

Okay, here's my self-diagnosis: insomnia. I don't sleep well.🙂

But I will beg off from this conversation just for present, I need to get some rest...Goodnight!

4 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Then there is nothing further to add.

If you really think I'm careless and hateful, you could tell me more specifically what I could work on to not be so careless and hateful - I really don't think I was being either of those things, but if I needlessly offended you I don't beg off from working on something.

3 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Is this something we can rely on as imperfect humans? Or are you relating to your own personal experience?

John 16:15

"All the things that the Father has are mine."

John 17:9,10

"...concerning those whom you have given me, because they are yours;  and all my things are yours and yours are mine.."

Jehovah sets the pattern for us. He is the best Father. He shares with Jesus. Jesus shares with all of us.

5 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Type-o

I don't think we know what type, they didn't check that kind of thing back then.

Just now, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

It seems you do.

 

If a dad and mom buy a house, they sign a paper that says they own it. They don't need to buy it again in order to give it to the kids. 

1 minute ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

I've seen some of your other posts. They are careless and hateful. Do you want my opinion on your behavior?

It seems you've already given your opinion.

What in particular are you referring to? Maybe I can try to be clearer.

1 minute ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

There seem to be some difficulties with your understanding of scripture. What scripture states is not well-defined by your commentaries.

 

Ah.😁