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John 12.24to28

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  1. Haha
    John 12.24to28 reacted to Pudgy in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    It’s been my observation that Audrey has been completely forthright with everybody, every time, however those with extreme agenda driven reading comprehension problems, who don’t actually completely read what she has written of course will not  think so.
    …. that is what agenda driven thinking is.
    What you are doing Manny, is persecuting a woman, because you can.
  2. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    I can see you haven't done much research into the financial holdings of the organization.
  3. Thanks
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Jesus said the leaven would ferment the whole lump, and that the wheat and the weeds would grow together. While there are some very good and useful parts of the videos, there are also some weeds and leaven that are spread along with them. My family has benefited very much from the jw.org videos, but we have also been hurt by them.
     
    Now that our eyes are opened to the fact that not everything in those videos programs are true, it's easier to disregard the false teachings in them and recognize the parts that are Biblically based.
     
    (But it makes me sick watching people gulp them down whole as if everything in them was "the gospel truth"! I used to do the same thing, so I understand why it happens. I'll be glad when Jesus comes and removes all the weeds/leaven.)
  4. Upvote
    John 12.24to28 reacted to Srecko Sostar in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    JWTV viewers should ask themselves; Can and should one imitate the faith of a TV preacher? GB has found an excellent way to spread manipulation. They have criticized TV preachers in the past.
     
    TV Evangelism—God’s Way?
    If Jesus Christ were on earth today, asserted TV evangelist Jim Bakker, “he’d have to be on TV.” Why television? Because, according to Bakker, “that would be the only way he could reach the people he loves.” Like Bakker, an increasing number of fundamentalist preachers in the United States feel that television is the best medium for spreading the Word of God. Yet, a 1984 study showed that, for the most part, TV evangelists “reinforce people already committed to evangelical religion.”
    Interestingly, in a letter to the editor of the magazine Ministry, one reader wrote: “You said they [television sets] are the church’s most powerful gospel seed-sowing tools, and yet God says the most essential work is house-to-house visitation—soul hunting. . . . Our Saviour loved to get away from the multitude, and then He went from house to house—soul hunting. The one-soul audience was His delight. . . . Can we not do the same?”
    According to Jesus Christ, the purpose of the Christian ministry was not just to ‘spread the Word’ but to “make disciples.” (Matthew 28:19, 20) He directed his followers to go to people’s homes. (Matthew 10:7, 11-13) The apostle Paul accepted this preaching method and said regarding his ministry: “I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house.” The personalized house-to-house ministry of the disciples reaped good results.—Acts 5:42; 20:20.
    If Jesus laid such emphasis on this method of preaching in order to make disciples, why do many evangelists prefer TV as their medium? The Courier-Mail of Brisbane, Australia, notes that TV evangelists “make up to $120 million a year selling salvation. They appear in a blaze of electrified power and glory on 300 TV stations, and are worshipped like pop idols. . . . For all their tactics, these men who claim to manipulate even God, come down in the end to a straight business deal. Send them $10 and they will send you to heaven.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1986845?q=religion+on+tv&p=par  WATCHTOWER 1986
     
    Religion on TV
    ● “Religious programming has proliferated enormously in the past decade,” reports The Plain Dealer. A two-week survey in 40 U.S. cities turned up 18,845 religious programs broadcast during that period. “These included everything from worship services to game shows, cartoons, variety shows and even soap operas with a religious theme,” says the paper. “Analysis of the programs found that characters were disproportionately male, white and middle-class. Characters who worked for the church were overwhelmingly male; so were the wealthy and the powerful.” Solicitations for money were also common. “During an average hour, viewers are asked to donate or buy products valued at $189.52,” the article states. “Programs featuring a preacher or a revival meeting plead the most; they ask for an average of $328.78 an hour.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101984289 AWAKE 1984
    RELIGION GOES “ON THE AIR”
    One of the factors limiting attendance at church has been the invention of devices to carry entertainment into the home. Especially true is this of the newest device, television. Of 190 ministers surveyed in the Louisville, Kentucky, area late in 1952, “most agreed that video was serious competition for the church: In 50 congregations, attendance at evening services has dropped 10 per cent.” So, not to be outdone in this progressive age, religion has gone “on the air.”
    Jumping at the first opportunity, they opened their “air-borne” assault in 1949, over the Du Mont television network, with the “Morning Chapel” program, featuring leaders of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish faiths. By November of 1953 interest in religious TV was so great that the Lutheran Church’s “This Is the Life” dramatization could lay claim to being “by far the most widely telecast program in the world,” broadcast by approximately 125 American TV stations, shown throughout Canada and regularly featured by the British Broadcasting Corporation. Later, on January 31, this year, Catholic Bishop Fulton J. Sheen’s “Life Is Worth Living” edged out the Lutheran program, tallying up over 169 stations, to gain first place on the networks. The Catholic Herald, of January 8, claimed over 15 million listeners for the bishop. Today, rather than religion’s being on the defensive against secular TV, the reverse is true. Milton Berle, Sid Caesar, Hopalong Cassidy and company have gained a most unusual competitor, the church. -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1954805?q=religion+on+tv&p=par WATCHTOWER 1954
  5. Haha
    John 12.24to28 reacted to Srecko Sostar in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Now I understand why WTJWorg has an increasingly confusing theology.., and it's only going to get worse if they all of them in heaven keep arguing over interpretations and who is smarter and greater among them.
  6. Upvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Pudgy in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Romans 16:1-15
     
    "I am introducing to you Phoeʹbe, our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cenʹchre·ae,  so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, for she herself also proved to be a defender of many, including me. Give my greetings to Prisʹca and Aqʹui·la, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,  who have risked their own necks for me and to whom not only I but also all the congregations of the nations give thanks.  Also greet the congregation that is in their house. Greet my beloved E·paeʹne·tus, who is a firstfruits of Asia for Christ.  Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.  Greet An·dronʹi·cus and Juʹni·as, my relatives and fellow prisoners, who are men well-known to the apostles and who have been in union with Christ longer than I have. Give my greetings to Am·pli·aʹtus, my beloved in the Lord. Greet Ur·baʹnus, our fellow worker in Christ, and my beloved Staʹchys.  Greet A·pelʹles, the approved one in Christ. Greet those from the household of A·ris·tobʹu·lus.  Greet He·roʹdi·on, my relative. Greet those from the household of Nar·cisʹsus who are in the Lord.  Greet Try·phaeʹna and Try·phoʹsa, women who are working hard in the Lord. Greet Perʹsis, our beloved one, for she has worked hard in the Lord.  Greet Ruʹfus, the chosen one in the Lord, and his mother and mine.  Greet A·synʹcri·tus, Phleʹgon, Herʹmes, Patʹro·bas, Herʹmas, and the brothers with them.  Greet Phi·lolʹo·gus and Julia, Neʹreus and his sister, and O·lymʹpas, and all the holy ones with them."
     
    Colossians 4:14-17
     
    "Luke, the beloved physician, sends you his greetings, and so does Deʹmas.  Give my greetings to the brothers in La·o·di·ceʹa and to Nymʹpha and to the congregation at her house.  And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa.  Also, tell Ar·chipʹpus: “Pay attention to the ministry that you accepted in the Lord, in order to fulfill it.”
     
    2 Timothy 4:19-21
     
    "Give my greetings to Prisʹca and Aqʹui·la and the household of On·e·siphʹo·rus. E·rasʹtus stayed in Corinth, but I left Trophʹi·mus sick at Mi·leʹtus.  Do your utmost to arrive before winter. Eu·buʹlus sends you his greetings, and so do Puʹdens and Liʹnus and Clauʹdi·a and all the brothers."
  7. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from MankeptforRacialsecretratters in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    "Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. It may involve one or more of activities such as veneration, adoration, praise, and praying. For many, worship is not about an emotion, it is more about a recognition of a God or gods." Wikipedia
     
    The manner of "worship" of the governing body is similar to what happens in Shinto religion...
     
    From "Mankind's Search for God" chapter 8
     
    "10. What is of vital importance to Shintoists?
     
    What, then, is of vital importance to Shintoists? “Originally,” says a book on Japanese culture, “Shinto considered acts that promoted the harmony and livelihood of a small community as ‘good’ and those that hindered such as ‘bad.’” Harmony with gods, nature, and the community was considered to be of superlative value. Anything that disrupted the peaceful harmony of the community was bad regardless of its moral value.
     
    11. What role do festivals play in Shinto worship and daily life?
     
    Since Shinto has no formal doctrine or teaching, its way of promoting the harmony of the community is through rituals and festivals. “What is most important in Shintoism,” explains the encyclopedia Nihon Shukyo Jiten, “is whether we celebrate festivals or not.” (See box, page 193.) Feasting together at festivals around ancestral gods contributed to a cooperative spirit among people in the rice-growing community. Major festivals were and still are related to rice cultivation. In the spring, village people call upon the “god of the paddies” to come down to their village, and they pray for a good crop. In the fall, they thank their gods for the harvest. During festivals, they carry their gods around on a mikoshi, or portable shrine, and have communion of rice wine (sake) and food with the gods.
     
    12. What kind of purification rites are performed in Shinto, and for what purpose?
     
    To be in union with the gods, however, Shintoists believe that they must be cleansed and purified from all their moral impurity and sin. This is where rituals come in. There are two ways to purify a person or an object. One is oharai and the other is misogi. In oharai, a Shinto priest swings a branch of the evergreen sakaki tree with paper or flax tied to its tip to purify an item or a person, whereas in misogi, water is used. These purification rituals are so vital to the Shinto religion that one Japanese authority states: “It may safely be said that without these rituals, Shinto cannot stand [as a religion].”
     
    The organization claims that Russell and Rutherford and other past "leaders" are now immortal spirits in heaven, likely assisting the organization on earth.
     
    (In contrast, the Bible shows that at present the only person who has been resurrected to heaven is Jesus.)
     
    There is a form of reverence for those "departed ancestors" which is manifested in the publications produced by the org.
     
    Anyone who is not in harmony with the traditions of the org is considered "bad". The traditions of meetings/ministry/service/Bethel/convention/Memorial/elders are considered more important than substance of following Christ every day.
     
    If you listen to the prayers at a meeting/convention, the comments during a meeting or the teaching from a talk, you will hear many phrases of adulation and praise for "the Faithful and Discreet Slave" or "the Governing Body" or something similar, rather than praise for Jehovah. You will hear reference to "the Watchtower says" and "the Insight book says" and "Brother so-and-so says" instead of "It is written in God's Word" or "Jehovah says".
     
    Even the words of the songbook have phrases praising the elders and "the Faithful Steward". It's sickening how the flock has been imbibing these poisoned waters.
     
    Jesus warned that such idolatrous teachings would creep into the congregation and still be in existence when he arrives...
     
    “‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, who taught Baʹlak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.  In the same way, you also have those adhering to the teaching of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus.  So repent. If you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will war against them with the long sword of my mouth."
     
    "‘Nevertheless, I do hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols.  And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality.  Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.  And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds."
     
    (Revelation 2:14-16, 20-23)
     
    The GB/Bethel/elderworship teachings are a form of idolatry. When the GB/Bethel/elders cut out people who adhere to the Bible the GB/Bethel/elders are acting like Jezebel, who used her authority to cut off God's faithful servants. When the GB/Bethel/elders use their authority to lord it over the flock and gain prominence or worship for themself or free room and board they are acting like Balaam, who served for profit. (Paul ordered the people to not pay for ministers, to not have those who take advantage of the flock in that way. Paul said they should work for what they eat. The Bethel arrangement is an abomination to God.) 
     
    Jesus is coming to remove all false teachings and those who will not repent of practicing them. Jesus did not start ruling in 1914. When gets in power in the kingdom, everyone will know, because he'll throw Satan out of heaven, the UN will attack religion, the UN will be the world power for 3 1/2 years (it's the toe part of the Daniel dream image. That part hasn't happened yet. We're not in "the last of the last of the last days"...) There are still over 3 1/2 years to go in this system.
  8. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Then they get a prize! 😃
     
    "Let no man deprive you of the prize who takes delight in a false humility and a form of worship of the angels, “taking his stand on” the things he has seen. He is actually puffed up without proper cause by his fleshly frame of mind,  and he is not holding fast to the head, to the one through whom the whole body is supplied and harmoniously joined together by means of its joints and ligaments and made to grow with the growth that is from God."
     
    (Colossians 2:18,19)
     
    The treatment of the GB as if they are higher or like "angels" with some kind of superpowers is not what Jesus had in mind for the congregation. Jesus is the head of the congregation, not a committee of imperfect men.
  9. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Here is confirmation from the scripture in Hebrews 13:17 showing why the GB should not be worshipped...
     
    "Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they are on the alert night and day in behalf of your souls, expecting to have to account for them; in order that they may do that with gladness, not with groans, for this would not pay you."
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, Byington)
     
    "Be yielding unto them who are guiding you and submit yourselves; For they are watching over your souls as having an account to render, That with joy the same they may be doing and not with sighing,—For unprofitable unto you were this."
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, Rotherham)
     
    "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, NWT)
     
    "Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?"
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, The Message Bible)
     
    There is a difference between a "leader" in the Christian congregation and a "stranger" in the Christian congregation.
     
    The above verses qualify what a "leader" looks like: 
     
    (1) "Alert night and day in behalf of your souls"
    (2) "Guiding you"
    (3) "Taking the lead among you"
    (4) "Pastoral leaders" who give "counsel" and are "alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God."
     
    Can a group of men who live far far away from the local congregation truly be alert night and day in behalf of our souls? Is it possible for a shepherd to keep watch over the local flock if he is living in another state or another country? It is not possible. A true "leader" according to this verse is one who personally knows the sheep and who personally stays awake to guard the soul of that sheep and who is among the sheep on a regular basis. The men at Bethel are not "leaders" they are "strangers". Just because their face is on the video screen doesn't mean they know us. They are strangers to us.
     
    "...the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.  The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.  They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
     
    (John 10:2-5)
     
    If a man doesn't know each sheep by name, then he is not the leader of that sheep, he is a stranger. Jesus said to Not Listen to Strangers.
     
    Do the members of the governing body know you by name? Do the people at the branch? In the service department? Not just a name on a piece of paper or a computer screen, but by name as in they know you, they keep awake to guard your soul and consider you part of their assignment, interacting with you personally on a regular basis? Not likely. It is not possible for an imperfect man who is living that far away from a congregation to take care of the sheep in that way. It's the local brothers if they shepherd properly, not the GB, who are to be obeyed in the sense of this verse.
     
    The local brothers who know the flock should have the flexibility to use their Bible trained consciences and good judgment to help the local sheep. The local shepherds should not be hamstrung by having to adhere to made up stuff coming down from headquarters people who have no clue what is going on locally. 
     
    Can a man run his family from overseas? Will his family function well that way? Those men in Bethel have no business making themselves out to be "leaders" from so far away. That's not the way Jesus set things up.
     
    The GB/Bethel has become the clergy class of the organization. They are paid. (How much does your room and board and insurance and medical care cost you? How much does it cost them?) They dictate manmade doctrines and enforce them with a ban against anyone who doesn't bow down. That is not what is supposed to happen according to Hebrews 13:17.
     
    Sheep will obey a real shepherd. The real shepherds get punished by the GB when they follow the example of the Christ and use thinking ability rather than flowcharts/elder manual. Jesus is coming to remedy the situation soon. Thank God.
     
  10. Haha
    John 12.24to28 reacted to Pudgy in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    That’s why it takes over 20 man-years of public witnessing to get  ONE  new Jehovah’s Witness, who will stay his or her entire lifetime.
     
     

  11. Upvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Pudgy in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Here is confirmation from the scripture in Hebrews 13:17 showing why the GB should not be worshipped...
     
    "Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they are on the alert night and day in behalf of your souls, expecting to have to account for them; in order that they may do that with gladness, not with groans, for this would not pay you."
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, Byington)
     
    "Be yielding unto them who are guiding you and submit yourselves; For they are watching over your souls as having an account to render, That with joy the same they may be doing and not with sighing,—For unprofitable unto you were this."
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, Rotherham)
     
    "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, NWT)
     
    "Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?"
     
    (Hebrews 13:17, The Message Bible)
     
    There is a difference between a "leader" in the Christian congregation and a "stranger" in the Christian congregation.
     
    The above verses qualify what a "leader" looks like: 
     
    (1) "Alert night and day in behalf of your souls"
    (2) "Guiding you"
    (3) "Taking the lead among you"
    (4) "Pastoral leaders" who give "counsel" and are "alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God."
     
    Can a group of men who live far far away from the local congregation truly be alert night and day in behalf of our souls? Is it possible for a shepherd to keep watch over the local flock if he is living in another state or another country? It is not possible. A true "leader" according to this verse is one who personally knows the sheep and who personally stays awake to guard the soul of that sheep and who is among the sheep on a regular basis. The men at Bethel are not "leaders" they are "strangers". Just because their face is on the video screen doesn't mean they know us. They are strangers to us.
     
    "...the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.  The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.  They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
     
    (John 10:2-5)
     
    If a man doesn't know each sheep by name, then he is not the leader of that sheep, he is a stranger. Jesus said to Not Listen to Strangers.
     
    Do the members of the governing body know you by name? Do the people at the branch? In the service department? Not just a name on a piece of paper or a computer screen, but by name as in they know you, they keep awake to guard your soul and consider you part of their assignment, interacting with you personally on a regular basis? Not likely. It is not possible for an imperfect man who is living that far away from a congregation to take care of the sheep in that way. It's the local brothers if they shepherd properly, not the GB, who are to be obeyed in the sense of this verse.
     
    The local brothers who know the flock should have the flexibility to use their Bible trained consciences and good judgment to help the local sheep. The local shepherds should not be hamstrung by having to adhere to made up stuff coming down from headquarters people who have no clue what is going on locally. 
     
    Can a man run his family from overseas? Will his family function well that way? Those men in Bethel have no business making themselves out to be "leaders" from so far away. That's not the way Jesus set things up.
     
    The GB/Bethel has become the clergy class of the organization. They are paid. (How much does your room and board and insurance and medical care cost you? How much does it cost them?) They dictate manmade doctrines and enforce them with a ban against anyone who doesn't bow down. That is not what is supposed to happen according to Hebrews 13:17.
     
    Sheep will obey a real shepherd. The real shepherds get punished by the GB when they follow the example of the Christ and use thinking ability rather than flowcharts/elder manual. Jesus is coming to remedy the situation soon. Thank God.
     
  12. Haha
  13. Confused
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    There is no need for two covenants in the way you are describing, because it is one family.
     
    If Adam and Eve had been faithful, their kids would inherit everything that belonged to Adam and Eve. They'd all live together on the earth. Adam would be the oldest family head. He was supposed to stay alive and share his knowledge and his home, the whole earth.
     
    Adam wasn't faithful. Jesus took his place. Jesus is old, so he could actually take Adam's place and be able to share information. It wouldn't be fitting for someone younger than Adam to take his place, because ideally the eldest should the lead in helping the younger, and share what they know.
     
    When Jesus takes Adam's place, Jesus inherits all the children. There is no need for another covenant. The "bride" is a new creation that becomes "one flesh" with the Christ in a figurative way that is similar to a wife with her husband, a helper, to take care of the kids. The kids don't need to be in the covenant, or marriage, contract, because they are the fruits of that contract. They are the precious ones. They are the whole reason for the marriage.
     
    There would be no need for the new covenant if it wasn't for the children on earth. The whole thing is for the purpose of giving them everything, the "other sheep". That's the whole reason for all of this. The other sheep are the real "Benefactors" but it's not in the sense the world uses the word, it's in that they are the ones primarily benefiting from the covenant. They are the ones who are going to be ministered to, waited on, served. It's the opposite of what is portrayed in a lot of publications.
     
     
  14. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    None are "benefactors" in the sense of being like worldly kings.
     
    Luke 22:25,26
     
    "But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors.  You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering."
     
     
  15. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    The New covenant is not part of the Kingdom covenant, but they are related.
     
    Everyone who lives forever on earth will benefit from the New Covenant, but that does not make them part of the covenant, partakers of the covenant.
     
    The New Covenant was to make a New Creation that could be married to Jesus figuratively. The New Covenant was Jehovah adopting the 144,000 as a New Creation so they could be the same "kind" of creature as Jesus. The Kingdom Covenant is like the engagement contract between Jesus and the 144,000.
     
    Anyone who is not part of the "Kingdom covenant" does not need to be in the new covenant because they are figurative children of those already in the covenant. In other words, they are adopted as kids of Christ and the figurative bride. They inherit everything. The relationship with God, the relationship with Jesus, the earth. Everything. Since Jesus is clean, the children are clean.
     
    "now they are holy"
     
    1 Corinthians 7:14
     
    "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would be unclean, but now they are holy."
     
    The "great crowd" of Revelation are those who learn about God and want to go with God's people during the great tribulation.
     
    The "Israel" in Revelation are all those who know God and love Him and believe in Jesus at present. The "Israel" in that context is not just the firstfruits. The "Israel" of Revelation is the same as the 12 tribes referred to when Jesus told those in the Kingdom covenant they would judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Israel just means all "God's people" on earth in that context.
     
    The "144,000" in Revelation are the "firstfruits", a new creation and become the figurative "bride" of Christ.
     
    1 Kings 3:24-27
     
    "The king said: “Bring me a sword.” So they brought a sword to the king.  The king then said: “Cut the living child in two, and give half to one woman and half to the other.”  At once the woman whose son was the living one pleaded with the king, for her compassions were stirred toward her son. She said: “Please, my lord! You should give her the living child! By no means put him to death!” But the other woman was saying: “He will be neither mine nor yours! Let them cut him in two!”  At that the king answered: “Give the living child to the first woman! By no means put him to death, for she is his mother.”"
     
    The GB are either fake anointed or they are horribly grieving the holy spirit. No "mother" would cut off their own kids the way the GB does with their wicked disfellowshipping doctrine.
     
    1 John 2:26-29
     
    "I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you.  And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.  So now, little children, remain in union with him, so that when he is made manifest we may have freeness of speech and not shrink away from him in shame at his presence.  If you know that he is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born from him."
     
    Paul described his deep inward emotions toward people:
     
    "In fact, you know that we never used flattering speech or put on any false front with greedy motives; God is witness!  Nor have we been seeking glory from men, either from you or from others, though we could be an expensive burden as apostles of Christ.  On the contrary, we became gentle in your midst, as when a nursing mother tenderly cares for her own children.  So having tender affection for you, we were determined to impart to you, not only the good news of God but also our very selves, because you became so beloved to us."
     
    Anyone who is going to be part of a "bride" needs to have the desire to wait on the children of the husband. A "bride" doesn't expect to be catered to by the children, or worshipped by the children. 
     
    It's just an illustration, but it's the same feeling as the deep emotional attachment, the desire to protect and nourish, the same as the deep longing a mother has for the child forming in the womb.
     
    Galatians 4:19
     
    "my little children, for whom I am again experiencing birth pains until Christ is formed in you"
     
    Any person can have such deep feelings for other people. But especially should someone claiming to be "anointed" have them.
     
    Luke 12:48
     
    "Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him."
  16. Upvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from Pudgy in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    The new covenant is not the same as the cleansing of all mankind by means of the ransom. Anyone who wants can benefit from the ransom blood by means of faith in the Christ and obeying him. A person does not need to be in the new covenant in order to benefit from the ransom.
     
    In ancient times under the Mosaic Law, the priests had to be installed before the other sacrifices could be made for the people.
     
    There were many sacrifices made during the time the priesthood was being installed. Later, those priests were used to make the animal sacrifices apply for the others in the nation.
     
    Jesus is the sacrifice for all of us. But not all of us have to be "installed as priests". The new covenant is just like the installation part. All the sacrifices under the law pointed to Jesus, so his blood ransoms all of us. But the specific new covenant contract is to convert the 144,000 into a new creation so they can fill that role as priests. They have to be spirit creatures in order to be priests.
     
    Jesus is a ransom for all mankind, not just the 144,000. Jesus is the redeemer for all mankind. His blood is necessary to cleanse all mankind. The new covenant is part of the process Jehovah will use to carry out the application of the blessings, but it doesn't mean the 144,000 are "the way to Christ" or "the way to God". They aren't. Jesus is the high priest, the second Adam, the Way, the Amen, the only ransom blood, the Lamb.
     
    Someone anointed to be one of the 144,000 can share certain insights on what Jehovah's holy spirit reveals as far as understanding certain scriptures when it is Jehovah's time to reveal them, but none of them should be "followed" or treated any different from any other person. Any correct understanding they have isn't from their own merit. If they are right on something, it's only because Jehovah used them as a messenger, and He can use the dirt, so it's no reason to be overly exalted or anything.
  17. Haha
  18. Haha
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from MankeptforRacialsecretratters in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    It seems you've already given your opinion.
  19. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from MankeptforRacialsecretratters in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    "Partake" is different than "benefit from".  When I used the word "partake" I meant partaking of the emblems at the Memorial meal.
     
    The other sheep will be blessed by it. They are the ones who inherit everything.
     
    Abraham gave up his son figuratively but gained him back.
     
    Jehovah gave up Jesus temporarily but gained him back.
     
    The 144,000 give up the ability to have children via procreation but gain the children back by means of the figurative "wedding" to Christ.
     
    Jehovah did not allow himself to be permanently separated from His firstborn son. Jehovah takes the lead in all things. He doesn't ask us to do anything that He wouldn't do himself. He will not separate families by making some go to heaven and some stay on earth and never interact or hang out. That would be hell. Jehovah doesn't do "hell". Satan tries to mislead people so they'll hate Jehovah. Satan is a liar. When the GB teaches that Jesus and the anointed and the angels will not come down and interact on earth during the Paradise, the GB is not telling the truth.
     
    Heaven is close to earth. All things are possible with God. 
     
    The anointed and Christ will be here on earth. So will Jehovah. We've already talked about this on other threads, but we can again if you like the topic. I like that topic. 🥰
     
     
  20. Confused
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from MankeptforRacialsecretratters in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    The figurative "city" on earth in Ezekiel...
     
    Ezekiel 48:35
     
    "And the name of the city from that day on will be Jehovah Is There."
     
    It's not just figurative when God wipes the tears away...
     
    Revelation 7:17
     
    "because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
     
    Revelation 21:3-5
     
    "“Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.  And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”"
     
    Jehovah said He is coming to the earth...
     
    Revelation 1:8
     
    "I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”
     
    Jesus said everybody would see him, not just the ones whose abode is in heaven...
     
    Revelation 1:7
     
    "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen."
     
    Hundreds of people saw Jesus after he was resurrected, before he ascended to heaven. Jesus materialized a body. Paul said that the anointed ones would be resurrected in the same way. They will have a spirit body, but they will be able to materialize a physical body. Just like Jesus visited and ate with and talked with the disciples after he was resurrected, so the anointed will do the same.
     
    Romans 6:5
     
    "If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection."
     
    John warned about those who teach that Jesus did not come in the flesh.
     
    2 John 7
     
    "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."
     
    1 John 4:2
     
    "This is how you know that the inspired statement is from God: Every inspired statement that acknowledges Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God."
     
    Jesus was born as a man. He came "in the flesh" in that way. But he also materialized a body made of flesh after he was resurrected.
     
    All things are possible with God.
     
    Genesis 3:8
     
    "Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden"
     
    "the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God"
     
    Jehovah God will walk with his kids in the garden again.
     
    Ezekiel 48:35
     
    "And the name of the city from that day on will be Jehovah Is There."
     
    A good administrator isn't far away. A good general isn't far away. A good leader is right in the midst of the people. The kingdoms of the world are set up the opposite of Jehovah's way. Jehovah will be in the midst of His people. Jesus will be here. The anointed will be here. With materialized bodies.
     
    Ephesians 1:8-10
     
    "This undeserved kindness he caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding  by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed  for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."
  21. Thanks
    John 12.24to28 reacted to Srecko Sostar in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Regardless of whether we would agree on whether something is a core teaching or not, the more important thing is whether a core teaching is correctly explained or is it just a nonsensical interpretation. 
    WRJWorg GB has proven many times that it has no basis to call itself a chosen or appointed spokesman of God who distributes spiritual food in the name of God at the right, proper time, while at the same time saying that it is normal to be imperfect and to distribute imperfect (incorrect) spiritual food to people who believe them unconditionally.
     
  22. Haha
  23. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from MankeptforRacialsecretratters in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Elephant tusk
     

     
    Elephant skin
     

     
    Elephant hair
     

     
    Elephant mama
     
    (It's just the perspective.)
     
     
    Amen! ☺️ What seems to be unusual and unpredictable may actually be something familiar and constant, when viewed in context with the right diopter.
     
    Jehovah was dealing with a stubborn, physical-minded people. They lived around people who sacrificed children and had multiple immoral relations and slaves. Jehovah permitted them to have animal sacrifices for awhile, but that changed when Jesus came. Jehovah permitted them to have slaves with regulations, but that began to change when Jesus came. Jehovah permitted them to have multiple wives, but that changed when Jesus came.
     
    The people were warlike. (Think of what Simeon and Levi did in Shechem.) They lived among nations who were bloodthirsty. Jehovah regulated their warfare so it wouldn't be worse, but that changed when Jesus came. 
     
    Jehovah hasn't changed. Jehovah is reasonable, and He knows how stubborn people are. He doesn't expect more than they can give. He is patient. He has been so patient.
     
    The Bible record of the Old Testament records many things that people did. Just because Jehovah had it recorded doesn't mean He approved of some of the things the people did. Just because He regulated it doesn't mean it was the ideal way He wanted things to be. 
     
    Some things that appear "harsh" at first glance are better understood with more details. 🙂
     
    Jesus said if we don't understand at first, to keep asking for details, and we will get them.
     
     
    I have heard people say that too. Why do you think some people say "that Jewish God is unusual and unpredictable"? What specific situations in the Old Testament do you think most people misunderstand, @Srecko Sostar ?
  24. Downvote
    John 12.24to28 got a reaction from MankeptforRacialsecretratters in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    Jesus said there would be weeds among the wheat. It will be a beautiful day when the weeds are removed, and Jehovah's name is cleared of reproach.🙂💖
  25. Upvote
    John 12.24to28 reacted to Srecko Sostar in Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's   
    I see Sir you made copy/paste from this link -  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-aaronic-priesthood-quorums-and-young-women-classes-doctrinal-topics-2021/14?lang=eng
    Well, yes, Russell believed that the truth is always the truth, even if Satan said it. Mormons are also people who believe they are telling the truth regardless of not believing the same doctrines as WTJWorg.
    This second highlighted sentence, which is bold, is interesting - "It can be easier to obey the commandments when we understand the reasons behind them."  In fact, it is the opposite of GB's claim that they should be trusted and how members have to follow their instructions even if JW members do not understand them.
    WTJWorg religion is manipulative.
     
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