Fausto Hoover

I am not sure, @Srecko Sostar, if this is how you meant that word: "Unsubordinate: Not subordinate; not of inferior rank, dignity, class, or order."
 
Jesus was truly superior to everyone on earth, since he was the only perfect person and he was God's firstborn son, in that way he was "unsubordinate". While he could be considered "independent" from sin, he lowered himself to become a slave and was willing to lower himself to obey the direction of the imperfect organization of his time, even though that organization was extremely corrupt.
 
He told us to imitate his example, to follow his way. Jesus submitted himself to the authority of the organization bearing Jehovah's name at that time, but Jesus did not compromise his integrity. Today, we can submit to the direction of those in authority (whether it be the authorities in a congregation or the authorities in the local governments). But if those authorities (any of them) ask us to do something that would lead to a compromise of our integrity, then we resolutely "obey God as ruler rather than men."
 
Jesus was willing to obey the secular authorities as they put him through a kangaroo court trial with false charges and no justice. Jesus was willing to submit to a course of abuse that was designed to humiliate him (although he despised shame and the real humiliation was on his persecutors) and then he submitted to death on a torture stake. 
 
Sometimes it is possible to remain in a congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and keep integrity. A lot of people feel "cognitive dissonance" but are able to continue in the congregation, knowing that in time Jehovah will clear things up. Some people are not able to conscientiously remain in the organization at this time and disassociate themselves with it because of conscience. Others are willing to remain but are kicked out. Many people in the congregations are just ignorant of the false doctrines at present and go on their merry way in a temporary peace. 
 
Jehovah knows the heart. To the degree possible, we strive to imitate the Christ. As far as autonomy, or self-government, we exercise our free will to submit to Jehovah's will for us, even though sometimes it's distasteful at present. It was distasteful at first for Jesus to go through what he did, but it worked out for a blessing.
 
"And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will." (Matthew 26:39)
 
Jesus self-governed himself in a way that showed immense strength. He did not take up a sword or a gun. He did not fear death or torture or what people thought. He knew what he was going to face, he trusted God's projection and interpretation, or will, for him, and he went through with it.

That is because you are a sweetheart and a gentleman.☺️
 
I am a brat. (I do not do all the things described in the lyrics to this song, but the basic overall bratness level is the same...)
 
 
 
That is always wise.🙂 I know you are wise, that is one of the reasons why I like you. I consider you to be my older brother, and I value your opinions and advice.
 
 
The GB is not beholden to me, so I don't really have anything to "forgive"...I have been hurt by some of the doctrines they teach, but as far as personal grudges or something, they're all good with me as far as that's concerned.
 
When Jeremiah preached about the destruction of Jerusalem, he didn't have a personal vendetta against any of those guys, even though they locked him up and hurt him at times, threatened him, tried to make his life miserable. Jeremiah was just doing his assignment. Plus Jeremiah knew ahead of time about the destruction coming. It was for real. It wasn't a "maybe this might happen." He knew for sure. He could see it in his mind's eye. He knew Jehovah's word would come true. That motivated him.
 
I know all these things are coming too. I know Jehovah is going to remove them, the whole "FDS" thing and the Bethel thing - they're going to be completely gone. It's as if it's already done, Jehovah's Word is a sure thing.
 
 
Jehovah's Word will come true, all of it, which includes removing all the weeds. 
 
 
It's never a waste to warn people. I don't want to look back and wish I had warned them at Bethel more. I am 100% confident all the false doctrines will be removed at Jehovah's appointed time. When that appointed time comes, anybody who clings to those doctrines will be removed too, if they refuse to repent.
 
 
Yeah, I know. 😌
 
 
Yes, we all answer to Him..."to the one more is given, more is expected". If we know there is a storm coming and Jehovah asks us to warn people, we just have to do it. I KNOW Bethel is going to be the first place attacked by the UN at the beginning of the great tribulation. Jehovah has let me know by means of His Word and His holy spirit. I am just a nobody, but I have to tell them. It's not a waste. Jehovah wants me to tell them. He's the One who let me have all their emails. He's the One that had me meet up with Robert Hendriks last weekend. He is the One that sends any of His witnesses for any of the assignments they have, that Jehovah may get the praise when His Word comes true.
 
The plagues of Revelation are figurative. The hail, the destruction, a lot of it is talking about the religious institutions being removed. That the governing body as individuals will possibly survive the destruction of the Bethels is implied by Jesus' words here:
 
"The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.  Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things.  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen." (Matthew 13:39-43)
 
"...the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,  "and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be." (Matthew 24:50,51)
 
"...whereas the sons of the Kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be." (Matthew 8:12)
 
In order to be "weeping" and "gnashing teeth" a person still has to be alive. The "fiery furnace" is figurative in those illustrations. It's symbolic of the great tribulation, and the false teachings and hypocrites in the organization being removed. The angels haven't removed them yet. It's not until the great tribulation starts that these illustrations take place. 
 
Additionally, the plagues in Revelation show that the word "killed" is figurative. Some people become dead to their former way of life after they see the destruction of false religion. It's a figurative "killing". 
 
When the GB loses their "kingdom" (the fake one they've got an empire over at present) then hopefully they repent. They like to preach that Jehovah's already got everything all decided by the start of the tribulation, but they're wrong.
 
@Pudgy, that "anointed" business isn't fake. There are people who are really anointed. They're not perfect people, but it's kind of like if you knew Latin and then you hear somebody speaking Pig Latin, and you're like, "uh, yeah, that's not Latin - that's Pig Latin." 
 
Are the governing body members really anointed? I don't know. I haven't talked to any of them personally. All I know is that when it says in one of John's letters "the anointing is teaching you" it's true. So either they're (the GB) really mentally slow, or they're really grieving the holy spirit by means of embracing some dark stuff. Hopefully you're right and they''ll all repent. Thankfully we don't have to judge that. Jesus will make it clear in time.

I remember reading about that stuff at the beginning of Ray Franz's book, Crisis of Conscience.  Yikes! 
 
"Mountains" in the Bible sometimes symbolize governments. When "the mountains fall" during some of the Revelation plagues, it includes such "governments" as the one the GB has set up in opposition to Jehovah's clear direction.
 
"But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors.  You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering." (Luke 22:25,26)
 
"The second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of the sea became blood..." (Revelation 8:8)
 
When Jehovah turned the Nile into blood, it was because the Nile represented bloodguilt. The Egyptians had thrown the Hebrew babies into the Nile as a form of infanticide. Even though the Egyptians worshipped the Nile, it was not a source of life for God's people. It is the same today. The mock government that is being worshipped as an idol is bloodguilty in Jehovah's eyes. 

WTJWorg is considered themselves as "God's Chosen People". The words of Isaiah were addressed to the Jews who were in BCE because of the Covenant. Analogous to your theology, these words are for every JW in the organization, not for those individuals or people outside the JW Church.

Jehovah hasn't changed. The Mosaic Law was perfect for its day. It was specific to the Israelites. They had lived in a nation, Egypt, with many graven images and spiritistic practices and slavery. They were moving to a place where there was polygamy and child sacrifice and immorality of all kinds. People killed each other with swords. War was all over the place. Jehovah regulated what they knew. Jehovah was patient with them. Jehovah hasn't changed.
 
Jehovah didn't agree with violent warfare, but He knew those people. They like to fight. Look at Levi and Simeon back in Shechem. They killed all the males and the animals. Later those sons of Israel wanted to murder their own brother. Jehovah regulated warfare so that those guys wouldn't be even more bloodthirsty.
 
Jehovah didn't approve of polygamy, but He knew those people could hardly handle not fornicating, so He was patient with them and regulated polygamy until Jesus got here. He forbade bestiality and other stuff. He knew they viewed women as possessions. That wasn't Jehovah's way, but He knew those people wouldn't listen if He made all the changes at once. Jehovah was patient with them.
 
When Jesus came, he told them some more things to work on, but he still didn't give them everything to change at once.
 
"“I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now.  However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come." (John 16:12,13)
 
The people were used to worshipping at a temple, but that isn't necessary. The people were physical minded. It's the same today. People want a physical leader. They want a place. They want a KH instead of a house to worship at. They want a governing body class to tell them what to do, just like the Israelites of old wanted a human king to lead them. It's the imperfect human inclination.
 
Jehovah knew this would happen with the congregations. Jesus foretold it would happen, people rising up and lording it over the flock, false teachings creeping in. But he also foretold it would end. It will be cleared up when Jesus gets here. In the meantime, we have to hold on to the truth we have.
 
"‘I know your deeds—look! I have set before you an opened door, which no one can shut. And I know that you have a little power, and you kept my word and did not prove false to my name. Look! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying—look! I will make them come and bow before your feet and make them know that I have loved you.  Because you kept the word about my endurance, I will also keep you from the hour of test, which is to come upon the entire inhabited earth, to put to the test those dwelling on the earth.  I am coming quickly. Keep holding fast to what you have..." (Revelation 3:8-10)
 
The Christian congregation was commanded to abstain from blood. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but we are still under the command to abstain from immorality and blood. When Jesus gets here, he will make more refinements, but until then we are wise to cling to the truth we have.
 
 

Jehovah's going to expose it soon!😃
 
"The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will flood out the hiding place."
 
(Isaiah 28:17)
 
(The plagues of Revelation will expose the lies. That's what the hail is really about. During the great tribulation, all the false teachings will be completely exposed. The foundation will be laid bare.)

😆 people looking to "Greek philosophy" instead of Jesus for the answers...lol hahaha...
 

An interesting read. One has to ask oneself some questions. GB often repeats the mantra that Jesus did not promise "perfect spiritual food", so the interpretation of WTJWorg has sometimes been wrong, and will continue to be, it seems.
The main point of WTJWorg is that spiritual food comes from the Source aka Jesus and travels through the "Only Channel" to the believers.
What kind of "error" is it about? Random mistake in communication between Jesus and GB? Or is it about flaws of character in Jesus or in GB?

It is interesting how some people "throw away the Bible" as a source of wisdom because of these older accounts; whereas others try to make rules for modern society based on these older accounts - when in truth they are there as a historical record for us. 
 
For example, the Watchtower says that having Bethel is like having the temple organization of old with singers and workers and leaders and so on, and they look at the two witness rule and try to make it fit for today. They try to say shunning is like the old stoning. But in all actuality, none of those things are for today. Jesus did not set up a commune arrangement with singers and tithes and Levites. Jesus did not say to stone anybody figuratively. (If he wanted to he could have, but he didn't say anything remotely like that.) That was the old way. 
 
"Nobody sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old outer garment, for the new piece pulls away from the garment and the tear becomes worse.  Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins. If they do, then the wineskins burst and the wine spills out and the wineskins are ruined. But people put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved." (Matthew 9:16,17)
 
People don't like change. They get comfortable with the old way. It seems easier to have rules than to think for ourselves. Jesus said that's how people are.
 
"No one after drinking old wine wants new, for he says, ‘The old is nice.’” (Luke 5:39)
 
But we all have to grow up sometime.
 
"But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ." (Ephesians 4:15)
 
The old way with the rules on polygamy and regulating slavery and so on was appropriate at the time, because the cultures the people lived among did all those things. They were a stiff-necked people and they weren't ready for the "new wine". In many ways, the people today are stiff-necked too. But the new wine is coming anyway. It is the appointed time. The training wheels are about to be removed, and the Way of the Christ will shine brightly.
 
"I pray that he may grant you through the abundance of his glory to be made mighty in the man you are inside, with power through his spirit,  and that through your faith you may have the Christ dwell in your hearts with love. May you be rooted and established on the foundation,  in order that with all the holy ones you may be thoroughly able to comprehend fully what is the breadth and length and height and depth,  and to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness that God gives." (Ephesians 3:16-19)

Jesus said even a child could understand the truth from God's Word.
 
The "philosophy" made up by pagan Greeks and cut-n-pasted into where it doesn't belong is a form of transgression that has permeated through the "church" or congregation. The org is "entitled" to do what they want, but since they claim to be in a covenant or special relationship with Jehovah and their actions are now bringing reproach on His Name, they will reap what they are sowing, namely, God's wrath. The Bible guarantees it. Jehovah will allow them to be attacked by the UN when the rest of religion is attacked, but there will be a faithful remnant let remain and then true worship will be refined.
 
 
Me, too...it's just as it says in 1 John 2:18-22:
 
"Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort.  And you have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge.  I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?"
 
Jesus' example is the way to follow. Those men on the GB who claim to be anointed and yet left the way of the Christ are "former members" of the body of the Christ. They have become "anti-Christ" by means of teaching philosophy of men rather than what is written in God's Word and was exemplified by the Christ, Jesus. The GB claims to be "the christ, the chosen one, the faithful slave" and wants people to follow them rather than Christ Jesus.
 
 
The GB are in a lot of trouble. When Jesus is enthroned as king in heaven, he will throw them down the same way Jehu threw down Jezebel, because they are doing spiritual fornication and encouraging the people to take part in it in Jehovah's name. They are very, very naughty. Jesus is going make them stop it soon. Praise Jehovah.

Perhaps you are already aware.
Coming Saturday 3 June a new documentary.
The Great Awakening.
https://rumble.com/v2of57c-the-great-awakening-trailer.html
https://thehighwire.com/thegreatawakening/
At the moment I am distributing this document to elders worldwide: https://jehovah.nu/memorial.pdf
It seems that they are more and more willing to listen.
Maybe I want that too much. But it seems.
Getting attention and pointing out something is not easy.
https://jehovah.nu/rijkjanssen.html

I think it's an awful read 😝but everyone is entitled to their opinion!
 
Greek philosophy influenced the oral law of the Jews. The Talmud reflects this Greek influence and apostasy from the Hebrew Scriptures.
Such Pharisaical traditions continued after the death of the apostles in the Christian congregation.
Greek philosophy influenced many so-called "Christian" writers, such as Thomas Aquinas, who wrote Summa Theologiae.
Greek philosophy continues to influence religious institutions today, including Jehovah's Witnesses, as is reflected in some of their doctrines such as on disfellowshipping.
 
Jesus came to make things simple. When he comes again, he's going to clean house of all these false teachings.

We didn't need a committee meeting of three elders in a secret back room. We just needed common sense and to pray to Jehovah and meditate on scriptural principles. It wasn't that hard once we figured out to not overcomplicate things.

I wasn't alive when Paul was in Corinth, but I have been alive the past few years and can share what I've experienced with "excommunication" and "disfellowshipping" in the local congregation.
 
Those "seven sins" listed on the first website posted there:
 
"(1) Immorality — adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, incest, rape, sexual impurity, etc.
(2) Greed — The desire to accumulate gain by base methods.
(3) Idolatry — Participation in occult practices.
(4) Drunkenness — Intoxication with alcohol.
(5) Extortion — Robbery, theft, stealing.
(6) Foul tongue — A railer, verbally abusive, reviling, slanderous, insulting, contentious, speech which causes injury or damage.
(7) Heretic — One who causes division by a party spirit, a self-willed opinion, or contentions over false or exotic doctrines."
 
I saw all of those things being practiced in my local congregation. Immorality, greed, idolatry, drunkenness, extortion, foul tongue, and heresy, being practiced by elders or elders wives or former elders. Not one of them was disfellowshipped, even though there was plenty of evidence, and at times the person admitted to the deed. The elders didn't care. The branch didn't care. The flock was hurt because these people were allowed to continue in their midst, but nobody did anything about it.
 
My kids and I are at the point where we are not welcome at the local Kingdom Hall because we told on some of those things that were going on. We were witnesses to the things and it was our obligation to report it and to warn others, since the deeds were still going on in some cases. My kids are baptized teenagers, and my son has been able to take the lead in our once-a-week family worship time for the past couple years. He also says the prayers before meals and before we read the Bible together every day. (We also watch prerecorded meetings twice a week too.)
 
For the year that my husband wasn't home per State order, our family worship was smooth. When my husband came home (which we are glad about) it was difficult for family worship and prayers, because part of the reason the domestic assault incident was precipitated in the first place was his anger that I had reported to the elder body what the COBE was doing, some of those bad things on that list. Anything that had to do with worship or prayer or reading the Bible was an issue for my husband, even though he was baptized and supposedly in good standing with the elders. At that point he hadn't repented about certain serious sins (some of the ones on that list there) and instead of Jehovah's spirit he had a spirit of rage and contention. It was impossible to do any kind of "worship" together with him. So my kids and would hide and do our worship in another part of the house where he wasn't around to get irritated. He would go to the Kingdom Hall and "worship" and we would worship Jehovah at home. We "disfellowshipped" him from our family worship because he kept disrupting it and turning it into an abuse session.
 
We have invited him back at other times since he's calmed down more, but he's not interested. My son says the prayer before dinner prior to when my husband comes in the room. We all eat together, but he doesn't join us for the prayer, or family worship. It's taken awhile to figure out how to get to this point, but it's peaceful for all of us now, as peaceful as possible, and gives evidence of Jehovah's approval. That's how we've done "disfellowshipping".

"John Rambo : [from the Director's Cut]  Go live your life 'cause you've got a good one.
Sarah : It's what I'm trying to do.
John Rambo : No, what you're trying to do is change what is.
Sarah : And what is?
John Rambo : That we're like animals! It's in the blood! It's natural! Peace? That's an accident! It's what is! When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing. When the killing stops in one place, it starts in another, but that's okay... 'cause you're killing for your country. But it ain't your country who asks you, it's a few men up top who want it. Old men start it, young men fight it, nobody wins, everybody in the middle dies... and nobody tells the truth! God's gonna make all that go away?
[pause] 
John Rambo : Don't waste your life, I did. Go home."
 
(quotes from Rambo 2008, imdb.com)
 
I don't know, @Pudgy - I haven't seen these movies since I was a kid (we had TV/movies on 24/7 when I was young, every genre - war/action/horror/spiritism/westerns/sci-fi/classics/musicals - I kind of did a 180 on that when I got to my 20's - now I don't hardly watch anything...) It seems that the John Rambo character was more like the Roman soldiers who didn't know what they were doing. But the GB sounds more like the "few men up top" Rambo was talking about here. "And nobody tells the truth".
 
They (the GB) claim to have special knowledge from God for understanding scripture better than everyone else, but they have grieved the holy spirit by disobeying clear Bible counsel. When we pray for holy spirit and then look at the Bible, we can tell the GB are making stuff up. The holy spirit is like having figurative night vision googles that magnify the light or see in infrared spectrum. John said the anointed ones have the spirit teaching them to understand the scriptures. I'm just some dumb person, but with Jehovah's help I can see clearly that the GB is making up so much stuff (although even atheists can see that) and Jehovah makes clear some other things that the GB has no clue about. If they were really "God's channel" and the holy spirit was helping them then they would know all these things that the holy spirit helps me understand. I'm just a nobody. I'm not some fancy Bible scholar. They should know more than I do if they're really some kind of "channel" thing. (They are not a "channel" - they are actually apostates.)
 
 
 
If Jehovah can make me understand stuff by means of His holy spirit, then He can make anybody understand. I'm low and not important. Jehovah is showing that He doesn't need some fancy governing body to reveal special truths to anybody. He can make a "nobody" understand. Even an "apostate" or somebody "disfellowshipped" or a "lowly woman".
 
As far as "not being to hard on the Governing Body" I don't think it's right when people say mean things about them just to be mean. But Jehovah does tell us to warn people. Jehovah is going to make an accounting with those men very soon. They are not standing in a very good place right now - Jehovah's really, really angry with them - His Word is clear. A lot of other people are going to be angry with them too when they find out all at once they've been lied to.  They'll find out all at once when Jesus pulls back the curtain and exposes their uncleanness, and that about some really important things, "they don't know diddly."
 
 

Jesus ate with them because he loved them first - before they started to love him. Whether or not they turned around, he loved them, because he is like his Father, Our Father Jehovah. That's why Jesus came here, because he loves us just like Jehovah loves us. If we respond to that love, great. If we don't, it doesn't change his love. He loved us first.
 
"When the attendant of the man of the true God rose early and went outside, he saw that an army with horses and war chariots was surrounding the city. At once the attendant said to him: “Alas, my master! What are we to do?”...But he said: “You must not strike them down. Do you strike down those whom you have taken captive with your sword and with your bow? Give them bread and water so they may eat and drink and return to their lord.”  So he spread a great feast for them, and they ate and drank, after which he sent them away to return to their lord."
 
(2 Kings 6:15,22,23)
 
"For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
 
(Matthew 5:46-48)
 
"We love, because he first loved us."
 
(1 John 4:19)
 
"I fed you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet strong enough. In fact, neither are you strong enough now,  for you are still fleshly."
 
(1 Corinthians 3:2,3)
 
"Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until the early rain and the late rain arrive."
 
(James 5:7)
 
You are the precious fruit of the earth. Jehovah is waiting patiently to reward you. He loves you. He is waiting for you.

Jesus is the true Spiritual Leader, the true Shepherd of the sheep. Here is what he said:
 
"And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."
 
(John 10:16)
 
There will be many out of all denominations and even those who are not religious today who will come to Jesus in the future during the tribulation ahead.
 
"What do you think? A man had two children. Going up to the first, he said, ‘Child, go work today in the vineyard.’  In answer this one said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward, he felt regret and went out.  Approaching the second, he said the same. This one replied, ‘I will, Sir,’ but did not go out.  Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said: “The first.” Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going ahead of you into the Kingdom of God.  For John came to you in a way of righteousness, but you did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him, and even when you saw this, you did not feel regret afterward so as to believe him."
 
(Matthew 21:28-32)
 
There are many who do not consider themselves to be part of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization or who are rejected by the Jehovah's Witnesses organization who are actually following Jesus by means of obeying the command to show love. 
 
There are many who are considered officially part of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization who claim to obey Jesus and yet who disregard the primary command he gave, to love. 
 
Jesus said "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going ahead of you into the Kingdom of God." Many of those ones who are despised by the GB and the leaders in the current JW.ORG organization have learned what love is sooner than the GB and the "leaders" did. 
 
"For the Kingdom of the heavens is like the master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.  After he had agreed with the workers for a de·narʹi·us a day, he sent them into his vineyard.  Going out also about the third hour, he saw others standing unemployed in the marketplace;  and to those he said, ‘You too go into the vineyard, and I will give you whatever is fair.’  So off they went. Again he went out about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did likewise. Finally, about the 11th hour, he went out and found others standing around, and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day unemployed?’ They replied, ‘Because nobody has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into the vineyard.’ 
 
“When evening came, the master of the vineyard said to his man in charge, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, starting with the last and ending with the first.’ When the 11th-hour men came, they each received a de·narʹi·us.  So when the first came, they assumed that they would receive more, but they too were paid at the rate of a de·narʹi·us.  On receiving it, they began to complain against the master of the house  and said, ‘These last men put in one hour’s work; still you made them equal to us who bore the burden of the day and the burning heat!’  But he said in reply to one of them, ‘Fellow, I do you no wrong. You agreed with me for a de·narʹi·us, did you not?  Take what is yours and go. I want to give to this last one the same as to you.  Do I not have the right to do what I want with my own things? Or is your eye envious because I am good?’  In this way, the last ones will be first, and the first ones last.”"
 
(Matthew 20:1-16)
 
(Better late than never.☺️💖)
 
"...and cure the sick ones in it and tell them: ‘The Kingdom of God has come near to you.’"
 
(Luke 10:9)
 
"Love never fails."
 
(1 Corinthians 13:8)
 
 

Jesus is the one who will set us free. He said:
"The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me,
Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek.  
He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners..."
 
 
Jehovah will gather back all His sheep into a clean congregation.
 
"When Jehovah gathered back the captives of Zion,
We thought we were dreaming.  
At that time our mouth was filled with laughter
And our tongue with a joyful shout.  
At that time they said among the nations:
“Jehovah has done great things for them.”
Jehovah has done great things for us,
And we are overjoyed.  
Do gather back our captives, O Jehovah,
Like streams in the Negʹeb.  
Those sowing seed with tears
Will reap with a joyful shout.  
The one who does go out, though weeping,
Carrying his bag of seed,
Will surely return with a joyful shout,
Carrying in his sheaves."
 
(Psalm 126)
 
I know we can't really apologize for others. I make a lot of mistakes that I have to apologize for. Sometimes we don't realize until later all the harm we have done. 
 
I was a strong supporter of "disfellowshipping" and I hurt a lot of people I love by supporting that doctrine in the past. I cannot undo the pain I caused. I can't go back and fix it - I can only deal in the present and plan for the future - but I know that many people who are practicing this God-dishonoring doctrine today will repent some day and wish they could go back and do it over. They will apologize and say how sorry they are for all the pain they caused and beg for forgiveness and mercy.
 
We can have that confidence. With eyes of faith, it's almost like if we think about it we can already hear them say...
 
"I'm sorry." 🥹🥲
 
I'm sorry, to @Srecko Sostar and @Pudgy and anybody else who has had to suffer rude people and stupid people and cold people because of that dumb disfellowshipping doctrine. I'm sorry you were separated from your family and friends and community in ways that were horrid. I owe you an apology, because I supported that doctrine too, and I would have shunned you just as much as the rest of the org does. I am sorry.
 
You are beautiful human beings made in God's image, Jehovah's children, with so many gifts and strengths. You are my family, and it was wrong of me or anyone else to shun you. You never should have been treated that way, but you already know that - Jehovah has given you the strength you needed to endure and to be refined and to come out stronger and smarter than before. He will keep rewarding you because He loves you.
 
Jehovah's chief enemy thought he could break you, but he didn't. Jehovah allowed the trial because He knew you well enough to know that you would have said "Here I am, send me!" if you knew all the details about the trial ahead of time and the outcome, just like Jesus. Jesus knew the details and the outcome and he went through it anyway. You've had the same privilege in a different way. All of Jehovah's children do. May you continue to rejoice in Jehovah's blessings. I love you because Jehovah loves you. He loves you so very much.💖 It's obvious.🥰
 
"Happy are you who weep now, for you will laugh. Happy are you whenever men hate you, and when they exclude you and reproach you and denounce your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man.  Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, for look! your reward is great in heaven, for those are the same things their forefathers used to do to the prophets."
 
(Luke 6:21-23)
 
"Beloved ones, do not be surprised about the fiery trials that you are experiencing, as though something strange were happening to you.  On the contrary, go on rejoicing over the extent to which you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, so that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory.  If you are being reproached for the name of Christ, you are happy, because the spirit of glory, yes, the spirit of God, is resting upon you."
 
(1 Peter 4:12-14)
 
Joseph was in the prison hole for a long time. His circumstances changed eventually. Job suffered more than most. Job's circumstances changed in time. Your circumstances are about to change too. Praise Jehovah.☺️🌷
 
"Look! We consider happy those who have endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome Jehovah gave, that Jehovah is very tender in affection and merciful."
 
(James 5:11)

Jehovah knows who His witnesses are - no counsel of man dictates to Jehovah who "is one of Jehovah's witnesses" and "who is no longer one of Jehovah's witnesses." 
 
"We must obey God as ruler rather than men." (Acts 5:29)
 
"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts fear out, because fear restrains us. Indeed, the one who is fearful has not been made perfect in love.   We love, because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.  And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:18-21)
 
I'm not anybody important, @Srecko Sostar, but I am one of Jehovah's witnesses, even if the org mislabels me a leprous mentally-diseased satanic disfellowshipped apostate worthy of everlasting death. I love you, @Srecko Sostar, and I will talk to you if I meet you on the street or the forum. I spent too much of my life following those dumb religious rules that Jesus hates. I don't want to do that anymore. You are right. The Bible is clear how Jesus treated people. I want to follow Jesus and not a bunch of guys who just make stuff up that ends up hurting people and reproaching Jehovah's name.

Lol...well some of the "actions and decisions of people from the past" are recorded in the Bible so that we Don't copy them, so of course those ones wouldn't end well if somebody copied them! That's exactly what we're seeing with the org right now. The ancient nation of Israel wasn't supposed to set up kings over themselves. They had Jehovah. But they rejected Jehovah and wanted kings. It's the same today. The Christian congregation isn't supposed to have kings. But we do. They will be removed, just like the other ones were. Jehovah had them removed. Jehovah hasn't changed.
 
"I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jeremiah 10:23)

I generally agree with your position. The difference between an old car and the Bible is that the condition of the car does not have such a big influence on our decisions, as does a religion that waves the Bible in front of the noses of believers.
Copying the actions and decisions of people from the past does not always end well. On the other hand, the repurposing of their experiences in order to be adapted to the ideology of today's Church Administration and the circumstances of life is also a dangerous precedent.
In general, we all know what is right and what is wrong. How to achieve that the wolf is fed and the donkey alive? For that, you don't need religious leaders who will tell a believer not to vote in state elections, but at the same time the WTJWorg Administration will participate in political conferences to promote religious activity and sue states that restrict WTJWorg "freedom".

One representative of WTJWorg, I think it was for the needs of a court case, openly admitted that the JW Corporation is structured the same as the Catholic Church, that is Hierarchical.
Agree! Collecting money is acceptable to help the poor and the afflicted, not for the needs of the Administration.
Tons and tons of paper, and now digital content of questionable value. Well, WTJWorg himself is destroying his old spiritual food and rejecting their value. Can we trust the current instructions that will end up in the spiritual graveyard in the future.

Additionally, I read that someone removed the pyramid from Russell's cemetery. WTJWorg owns Russell's grave right? Why was it important to do this? Because it reveals their spiritual origin.
 

Well…. For every soldier that gets the U.S. Medal of Honor, there is probably another thousand that also deserve one.
A lot gets missed.

Looking back in the thread it looks like "dancin by myself" some of the time except for the quotes from Manny are still there, lol!
 
 
 
Well, he must have gotten deleted for a good reason, so maybe now it's "safer to dance"...😆
 
 
 

I believe, Manny, you would pick the nits off a blanket until you froze to death in a pile of nits.