Many Miles

What part of the Wikipedia article expresses why the society didn't simply argue for the pledge all their top leadership was already swearing to?
I mean, the society's top leadership was already pledging the oath of allegiance to the United States of America, which is the highest oath of allegiance recognized in the USA.

What part of the Wikipedia article expresses why the society didn't simply argue for the pledge all their top leadership was already swearing to?
I mean, the society's top leadership was already pledging the oath of allegiance to the United States of America, which is the highest oath of allegiance recognized in the USA.

In arguments before the US Supreme Court in Barnette v West Virginia State Board of Education, the society offered an alternate pledge of allegiance for JWs.
When Justice Jackson rendered the Courts opinion he recited the alternate pledge of allegiance offered. It reads:
“I have pledged my unqualified allegiance and devotion to Jehovah, the Almighty God, and to His Kingdom, for which Jesus commands all Christians to pray. I respect the flag of the United States and acknowledge it as a symbol of freedom and justice to all. I pledge allegiance and obedience to all the laws of the United States that are consistent with God's law, as set forth in the Bible.”
One can only wonder why the society felt the need for that alternative pledge of allegiance when they could have just told JWs they could pledge the same oath of allegiance sworn by all the society's top men, which reads like this:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation, or purpose of evasion; So help me God."
Anyone have any notion why the society didn't simply argue for the pledge all their top leadership was already swearing to? I mean, it's the highest oath of allegiance recognized in the USA.

Oh. Yes. I recall noticing that a few decades ago. That image was made available by the US Dept of State and was mined by Ancestry.com and other digital collections. It's still there for anyone to check. Typo and all, the document is legit. I had forgotten all about that typo until you pointed it out.

Oh. Yes. I recall noticing that a few decades ago. That image was made available by the US Dept of State and was mined by Ancestry.com and other digital collections. It's still there for anyone to check. Typo and all, the document is legit. I had forgotten all about that typo until you pointed it out.

“not sure what you read as a typo”
Maybe the penman had a close relationship with Jesus.

Chinese society is its own special crossroad of dictatorial governance, wealth, societal development, information access and technology. Not too long ago a group I was with were laughing out loud because huge billboard sized photos of us were broadcasted near the intersection we had just j-walked. It was an instance of trying to shame us into using crosswalks. Later that day a hotel staffer approached us about the violation. Facial recognition had IDed us and authorities located our accommodation and instructed staff to straighten us out. Real 1984ish stuff! 

I don't know what "letter" you're talking about. But, yes, the images shared earlier by Pudggy are from passport applications. But that's not what you said earlier. Here's what you said earlier:
So, earlier you said those images were "pictures of passports". As I said, and you now agree, they were NOT images of PASSPORTS. No one that I know of has ever had access to any of these men's passports other than themselves. Not even the US Department of State wouldn't have their passports (or copies of them!).
I see you didn't bother to comment on your second error, which was your assertion the MCP cards were not essential to travel. It's your assertion. Care to prove it? I already know your statement is false, but it should be entertaining to see what you cook up as evidence of your assertion.

I don't know what "letter" you're talking about. But, yes, the images shared earlier by Pudggy are from passport applications. But that's not what you said earlier. Here's what you said earlier:
So, earlier you said those images were "pictures of passports". As I said, and you now agree, they were NOT images of PASSPORTS. No one that I know of has ever had access to any of these men's passports other than themselves. Not even the US Department of State wouldn't have their passports (or copies of them!).
I see you didn't bother to comment on your second error, which was your assertion the MCP cards were not essential to travel. It's your assertion. Care to prove it? I already know your statement is false, but it should be entertaining to see what you cook up as evidence of your assertion.

At one time I had several in my library. I lent them out for various researchers. We know how that goes!  
I should still have one though. It’s in a special collections safe. Sometime next week I’ll get to and share. I’m sure i still have one. Can’t imagine I’d have left my own library completely dry!!

You don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. For starters, those images above are not images of passports. So you’re wrong about that. Also, having an MCP card was essential for travel inside Malawi at the time. So you’re wrong about that too.
Do you know anything at all about MCP party card distribution, party registration, or party affiliation? Anything at all? 

Some participants here may recall the utter shock of what our JW friends suffered in Malawi. The persecution was horrendous. It was all over a document known as an MCP party card. How many here have ever held one in their hand to look it over and see what it is?
JWs of the time were under the impression that, as it was quoted in our publications, "they can give their allegiance only to Jehovah God and his kingdom". (Ref https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968081?q=they+can+give+their+allegiance+only+to+Jehovah+God+and+his+kingdom&p=par#h=16 )
Under that impression, JWs in Malawi were refusing to obtain the MCP party card.

You don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. For starters, those images above are not images of passports. So you’re wrong about that. Also, having an MCP card was essential for travel inside Malawi at the time. So you’re wrong about that too.
Do you know anything at all about MCP party card distribution, party registration, or party affiliation? Anything at all? 

At one time I had several in my library. I lent them out for various researchers. We know how that goes!  
I should still have one though. It’s in a special collections safe. Sometime next week I’ll get to and share. I’m sure i still have one. Can’t imagine I’d have left my own library completely dry!!

In 2000 the society made a shift to be clearer about its position on what products rendered from the donor blood supply were prohibited. It prohibited whole blood, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. If it is a product rendered from blood other than these, the policy left it up to each JW to decide for themselves free of any community repercussion.
The irony
Most JWs have some knowledge of hospital liaison committees (HLC). They have training and materials for presentations to physicians and others in the medical field. Maybe the single largest published work for use by HLCs is titled Family Care and Medical Management for Jehovah's Witnesses. This published work was a boxed 3-ring binder published in 1992. It's about 300-350 pages. But other materials published for HLCs use were as short as a single page. There is such a single-page document date stamped "Rev.4/02". Its header reads "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEDICAL ALTERNATIVES TO BLOOD". The date stamp shows it's a document revised as of April 2002. At the bottom of the page there is a section titled "PERSONAL DECISION". The second item listed reads "Cryoprecipitate (contains small amt. of plasma)". There is irony in that statement.
The irony is that, on the same one-page flier, at the top is the section titled "NOT ACCEPTABLE". The third item listed is "plasma". The irony is found in the "plasma" term indicated in the PERSONAL DECISION section; it refers to cryosupernatant. The irony is, on this document, the society just calls the cryosupernatant "plasma", yet  "plasma" is in the NOT ACCEPTABLE category. I've had friends tell me cryosupernatant is not "plasma" that it is a fraction of "plasma". But, ironically, whoever put this April 2002 flier together understood that cryosupernatant is plasma. It's just cryoreduced plasma. But it is plasma nevertheless.

Some participants here may recall the utter shock of what our JW friends suffered in Malawi. The persecution was horrendous. It was all over a document known as an MCP party card. How many here have ever held one in their hand to look it over and see what it is?
JWs of the time were under the impression that, as it was quoted in our publications, "they can give their allegiance only to Jehovah God and his kingdom". (Ref https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968081?q=they+can+give+their+allegiance+only+to+Jehovah+God+and+his+kingdom&p=par#h=16 )
Under that impression, JWs in Malawi were refusing to obtain the MCP party card.

In 2000 the society made a shift to be clearer about its position on what products rendered from the donor blood supply were prohibited. It prohibited whole blood, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. If it is a product rendered from blood other than these, the policy left it up to each JW to decide for themselves free of any community repercussion.
The irony
Most JWs have some knowledge of hospital liaison committees (HLC). They have training and materials for presentations to physicians and others in the medical field. Maybe the single largest published work for use by HLCs is titled Family Care and Medical Management for Jehovah's Witnesses. This published work was a boxed 3-ring binder published in 1992. It's about 300-350 pages. But other materials published for HLCs use were as short as a single page. There is such a single-page document date stamped "Rev.4/02". Its header reads "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEDICAL ALTERNATIVES TO BLOOD". The date stamp shows it's a document revised as of April 2002. At the bottom of the page there is a section titled "PERSONAL DECISION". The second item listed reads "Cryoprecipitate (contains small amt. of plasma)". There is irony in that statement.
The irony is that, on the same one-page flier, at the top is the section titled "NOT ACCEPTABLE". The third item listed is "plasma". The irony is found in the "plasma" term indicated in the PERSONAL DECISION section; it refers to cryosupernatant. The irony is, on this document, the society just calls the cryosupernatant "plasma", yet  "plasma" is in the NOT ACCEPTABLE category. I've had friends tell me cryosupernatant is not "plasma" that it is a fraction of "plasma". But, ironically, whoever put this April 2002 flier together understood that cryosupernatant is plasma. It's just cryoreduced plasma. But it is plasma nevertheless.

What in the world is that sentence even trying to say? Lol 

In 2000 the society made a shift to be clearer about its position on what products rendered from the donor blood supply were prohibited. It prohibited whole blood, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. If it is a product rendered from blood other than these, the policy left it up to each JW to decide for themselves free of any community repercussion.
The irony
Most JWs have some knowledge of hospital liaison committees (HLC). They have training and materials for presentations to physicians and others in the medical field. Maybe the single largest published work for use by HLCs is titled Family Care and Medical Management for Jehovah's Witnesses. This published work was a boxed 3-ring binder published in 1992. It's about 300-350 pages. But other materials published for HLCs use were as short as a single page. There is such a single-page document date stamped "Rev.4/02". Its header reads "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEDICAL ALTERNATIVES TO BLOOD". The date stamp shows it's a document revised as of April 2002. At the bottom of the page there is a section titled "PERSONAL DECISION". The second item listed reads "Cryoprecipitate (contains small amt. of plasma)". There is irony in that statement.
The irony is that, on the same one-page flier, at the top is the section titled "NOT ACCEPTABLE". The third item listed is "plasma". The irony is found in the "plasma" term indicated in the PERSONAL DECISION section; it refers to cryosupernatant. The irony is, on this document, the society just calls the cryosupernatant "plasma", yet  "plasma" is in the NOT ACCEPTABLE category. I've had friends tell me cryosupernatant is not "plasma" that it is a fraction of "plasma". But, ironically, whoever put this April 2002 flier together understood that cryosupernatant is plasma. It's just cryoreduced plasma. But it is plasma nevertheless.

What in the world is that sentence even trying to say? Lol 

Because a person has a library at their disposal does not mean they understand what they're reading. Everyone needs help learning how to learn, learning what information means, and when or whether pieces of information do or do not have a relationship, and what that relationship is and potential consequences.
Both sources you cite can be useful though. And, I am a hearty advocate of reading. I'm also a hearty advocate of learning from everyone and everything around me, and I think everyone should be that way. We learn from one another.
I don't know that anyone here is trying to sound intelligent. It seems to me folks here are just sharing their thoughts, if they have any, on whatever the topic is.
I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. These days I don't know of any hospital that uses a product rendered from blood purely as a volume expander. What you cite of WWII is of a desperate measure for a desperate time and place. As late the the early 21st century there are also isolated reports of extremely remote medical services that have used coconut water (NOT coconut MILK!!!) as a volume expander. But this can be very dangerous because users are gambling that the osmotic pressure of whatever coconut water they use is suitable for IV administration. If it's not, the fluid will, basically, initiate a cascading event of hemolysis where erythrocytic cells explode in the peripheral blood stream. It can be lethal. Hence, anytime a medical facility has used IV administration of coconut water it's a desperate measure, and what they're really doing is gambling to buy time for access to better therapeutics. Again, though, this is unrelated to the subject of products rendered from blood.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. Administration of oxygen to a patient and that oxygen being sufficiently transported to organ tissues are separate things. There is such a thing as bleeding to death. Without enough erythrocytic cells to efficiently transport oxygen and carbon dioxide (alternatively) a patient's organs will shut down and they will perish.
What you write here paints a relatively correct picture. There are therapeutics that can stimulate erythrocytic production, but it takes time. As you say, it could be days. It could even be weeks for sufficient erythrocytic production rise to stabilize a patient. In the face of severe anemia, what fills the immediate gap is transfusion of red cells. These transfused cells will serve as transport for oxygen until the patient's own system can produce enough erythrocytes to do the job, and can sustain that production.
Neither life nor health is guaranteed. Nevertheless, humans in need of medical care are looking for the best care available for whatever is their condition. And, when the question is, "What is the scriptural basis for refusing transfusion of products rendered from blood?" it adds nothing to the discussion to, essentially, simply assert 'It does!'. So far you've ignored all the logical scriptural arguments put forth in this discussion, which is why I eventually just ignored you. But another reader thought your comments above could use a response.

Chinese society is its own special crossroad of dictatorial governance, wealth, societal development, information access and technology. Not too long ago a group I was with were laughing out loud because huge billboard sized photos of us were broadcasted near the intersection we had just j-walked. It was an instance of trying to shame us into using crosswalks. Later that day a hotel staffer approached us about the violation. Facial recognition had IDed us and authorities located our accommodation and instructed staff to straighten us out. Real 1984ish stuff! 

Chinese society is its own special crossroad of dictatorial governance, wealth, societal development, information access and technology. Not too long ago a group I was with were laughing out loud because huge billboard sized photos of us were broadcasted near the intersection we had just j-walked. It was an instance of trying to shame us into using crosswalks. Later that day a hotel staffer approached us about the violation. Facial recognition had IDed us and authorities located our accommodation and instructed staff to straighten us out. Real 1984ish stuff! 

Because a person has a library at their disposal does not mean they understand what they're reading. Everyone needs help learning how to learn, learning what information means, and when or whether pieces of information do or do not have a relationship, and what that relationship is and potential consequences.
Both sources you cite can be useful though. And, I am a hearty advocate of reading. I'm also a hearty advocate of learning from everyone and everything around me, and I think everyone should be that way. We learn from one another.
I don't know that anyone here is trying to sound intelligent. It seems to me folks here are just sharing their thoughts, if they have any, on whatever the topic is.
I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion. These days I don't know of any hospital that uses a product rendered from blood purely as a volume expander. What you cite of WWII is of a desperate measure for a desperate time and place. As late the the early 21st century there are also isolated reports of extremely remote medical services that have used coconut water (NOT coconut MILK!!!) as a volume expander. But this can be very dangerous because users are gambling that the osmotic pressure of whatever coconut water they use is suitable for IV administration. If it's not, the fluid will, basically, initiate a cascading event of hemolysis where erythrocytic cells explode in the peripheral blood stream. It can be lethal. Hence, anytime a medical facility has used IV administration of coconut water it's a desperate measure, and what they're really doing is gambling to buy time for access to better therapeutics. Again, though, this is unrelated to the subject of products rendered from blood.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. Administration of oxygen to a patient and that oxygen being sufficiently transported to organ tissues are separate things. There is such a thing as bleeding to death. Without enough erythrocytic cells to efficiently transport oxygen and carbon dioxide (alternatively) a patient's organs will shut down and they will perish.
What you write here paints a relatively correct picture. There are therapeutics that can stimulate erythrocytic production, but it takes time. As you say, it could be days. It could even be weeks for sufficient erythrocytic production rise to stabilize a patient. In the face of severe anemia, what fills the immediate gap is transfusion of red cells. These transfused cells will serve as transport for oxygen until the patient's own system can produce enough erythrocytes to do the job, and can sustain that production.
Neither life nor health is guaranteed. Nevertheless, humans in need of medical care are looking for the best care available for whatever is their condition. And, when the question is, "What is the scriptural basis for refusing transfusion of products rendered from blood?" it adds nothing to the discussion to, essentially, simply assert 'It does!'. So far you've ignored all the logical scriptural arguments put forth in this discussion, which is why I eventually just ignored you. But another reader thought your comments above could use a response.