BTK59

Consider this, Tom. The individual who was disfellowshipped claimed that he pressured the Elders to address his atrocious crime, which he is still being pursued for under secular law. This is a case of CSA at its worst, and you are suggesting that James/Pudgy had to pressure the Elders to take action? If those Elders were racist like he is, any other group of Elders would have acted appropriately and purged him from that congregation without hesitation upon learning of the charges. That is not a baseless and dismissive allegation as you people here are trying to downplay it. However, "thinking" is defending a person who is accused of CSA as a Jehovah's Witness. We could argue the same thing for apostate Srecko, who defended James, but at least he had a motive as an apostate. So, she thinks I'm crazy? I'm not the one who fled from the mental institution with that mindset, lol! If he was found "not guilty" of the state charge despite strong evidence with electronic surveillance, it is important to emphasize that his age and medical condition should not cause the jury to overlook that evidence in a trial for that charge. It is highly doubtful that he will be acquitted of the 2 remaining charges out of the initial 8. It is very likely that he has already been placed under house arrest or on probation due to his condition. If he has been placed under house arrest, he will not be allowed to have any visitors other than family, including members of his congregation. Additionally, he will not have access to electronic devices with internet connection, as this would contradict the purpose of the felony charges against him. So, unless he has wealth like "Weinstein," he won't be getting out of that one. I am truly perplexed as to why JWI, who purportedly has an attorney in his family, has not clarified that concept to that person "thinking."

Your behavior seems to be in line with the very behavior you criticize. It is hypocritical to speak out against others while failing to recognize your own abusive conduct and resorting to personal insults. Your actions contradict your outspokenness. Perhaps it is time to reflect on the inconsistency of your behavior, "thinking." You still claim to be a witness, even as you persist in defending yourself with your own deceitful words against scripture. It's ironic and amusing.

It is not unusual for adults who behave like children, particularly in a spiritual sense, to lack knowledge in many areas. It is important to rely on professionals and those who genuinely appreciate God's laws. Christianity is not meant for conformists who are attached to other unrepentant sinners and then claim to be Christian. Tom, what has become of the Israelites and Jews? If your commentary implies that I should allow my brothers to be destroyed on judgment day due to their current foolishness, then so be it. However, that wish of yours should not be forced upon others.

What's another correction to add to the extensive list of errors spanning over a decade? It's ironic how even a six-year-old can possess greater knowledge than the people here, don't you think? Lol!

Studying different forms of worship helps us gain a deeper understanding of diverse religious practices. When adhering to scriptural laws that allow for the expulsion of wrongdoers or those who refuse to repent, any faith that abides by such laws is in alignment with the teachings of scripture. Now, with the Holy See making an effort to summon a Bishop to the Vatican due to his slanderous remarks about the Pope, we must reflect on whether this Bishop could potentially face excommunication for simply criticizing the Pope, or if his actions involve publicizing severe accusations and allegations are to blame.

Isn't there a noticeable distinction? The Elders hold the authority, while the congregation witnesses the genuine repentance and profound transformation. I can't recall a moment when Paul sought a vote.

Check out your abusive behavior first, then we'll talk. So, true. When have you stopped the truth from being told? I don't need to project on a false premise. It masks his mental state, especially when he should already know that the lifeboat he thinks isn't there is actually supplied by God. The Captain of God's boat knows where and when to steer that ship to safety.

There is ample evidence of other spiritual perspectives being shared in this forum. Are you suggesting that these witnesses should halt their efforts so that only this propaganda can persist? Perles spirituelles - Semaine du 23 Juin 2024 - Psaumes 54 - 56 Although you keep insisting, you still associate with and defend Pudgy and JWI sometimes, so I wouldn't go as far as to say never. I am grateful to God for sparing me from being involved with those who dismiss scripture as worthless advice. I wouldn't even acknowledge such a person. Do you mean to say that you're engaging in the same behavior that you're criticizing? It seems that you are getting upset as well. I'll be sure to look out for you with your new account. I doubt that with or without they are the same. Meantime, I forgot to post how the public is being misled before you ban me. HOW SHOULD PUBLISHERS TREAT A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE CONGREGATION? 18. When a person has been removed from the congregation, we “stop keeping company” with that person, “not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11) However, as explained and demonstrated in the 2024 Governing Body Update #2, if the person attends congregation meetings, a publisher can use his Bible-trained conscience to decide if he will give a simple greeting and welcome the disfellowshipped person to the meeting or not. 19. A Christian may also choose to invite a disfellowshipped person—perhaps a relative, a former Bible student, or someone he was close to in the past—to attend a congregation meeting. Do not attempt to coerce me into embracing your brand of Christianity.

Under the guidelines provided by the Governing Body updates, it is important to address a misconception that has been presented as truth in this forum. It is essential to clarify this misinformation for other members of the congregation. Contrary to what was previously thought, it is still the responsibility of the Elders to maintain communication with disfellowshipped individuals. The previous instruction for the congregation to not even give a greeting to a disfellowshipped individual may have had a negative impact. However, the recent update now allows the congregation to have a positive impact by offering a simple greeting. Update number #2 does not designate a specific place where the congregation can socialize with a disfellowshipped individual. However, it does rely on the conscience of each individual if they wish to give a simple greeting to a disfellowshipped person. The congregation as a whole is not authorized to reinstate an individual. That responsibility belongs to the elders. The second update from the governing body is intended for "repentant" individuals—those with genuine remorse in their hearts, not superficial regret used to deceive others into believing they have changed. 1. The 2024 Governing Body Update #2 announced adjustments in the way serious wrong-doing will be addressed by the elders. This document outlines those adjustments, which should be implemented immediately. The body of elders should meet within one week following the release of this document to review this direction. In addition, the circuit overseer will review this material with the elders during his next visit to the congregation following the release of this document. If the body of elders has questions about a specific case, please write to the Service Department, providing complete details. In due course, the Shepherd and Organized books will be revised to reflect these adjustments. JEHOVAH “DESIRES ALL TO ATTAIN TO REPENTANCE” 3. In the 2024 Governing Body Update #2, we received clarification on three scriptures. (1) In harmony with 2 Timothy 2:24, 25, a committee of elders will lovingly correct and instruct a wrongdoer with the goal of leading him to repentance. (2) As outlined at 1 Corinthians 5:13, a person who refuses to repent must be removed from the congregation. However, the committee will still try to help him see the need to return and will arrange for a follow-up meeting in a few months. (3) We also clarified our understanding of 2 John 9-11, which we learned applies specifically to apostates and others who actively promote wrong conduct, not to all those who have been removed from the congregation. 4. Let us consider in more detail how these clarifications relate to how wrongdoers should be dealt with in the congregation. HOW CAN ELDERS COOPERATE WITH JEHOVAH IN ‘LEADING A SINNER TO REPENTANCE’? Therefore, it is the Elders who will make the determination of whether a person has truly repented. This decision will be based on their perception of the individual's ongoing adherence to the spirit and guidance of the Bible, rather than simply accepting the person's claims made in an open forum. So, witnesses are encouraged to review the Governing Body updates to verify any misinformation given in this platform.

You are correct in noting that I will not change my beliefs by accepting language that does not align with the principles of a Jehovah's Witness. Instead of displaying hypocrisy and behaving contrary to God's will, it is important to present ourselves as true Christians. Rather than being vocal, let us seek to understand the truth in the proper manner. It's important to remember that according to God's assurance, there will come a time when his followers will be separated into sheep and goats, and then there will be a judgment that no proud person can deny. Therefore, misplaced loyalties do not hold favor with God.

Is there specific guidance in their updated beliefs regarding how to interact with disfellowshipped individuals beyond offering a positive greeting? It seems that you and Tom have already expressed a differing opinion from the GB, suggesting that you may need to reassess your own understanding before sharing misinformation. The article on false stories highlights the importance of verifying information from untrustworthy sources for genuine witnesses.

Your presentation lacks meaning if you choose to deceive with false claims. Your words should not be taken seriously. I cannot recall that in 1977, the Watchtower, under the guidance of Jehovah's Witnesses, endorsed the Great Pyramid, as you falsely accuse. Similarly, Pastor Russell did not endorse the Great Pyramid, as you falsely claim, along with others who looked into its mystical powers. However, you persist in promoting two untrue assertions: that you are not a person who insults others and that you are a credible witness.

I believe there has been a breakthrough in understanding how a "few" entrenched witnesses can manipulate facts to fit their narratives, despite secular history and biblical accounts offering a different perspective on time and dating systems. These determined dissenters will stop at nothing to convince their spiritual brothers that there is a conflict with these historical structures, even though they themselves are the cause of it. No one should ever be prevented from conducting their own independent research. It is recommended that extensive and factual research be carried out without restricting it to seeking only what they claim to be facts, especially when historical facts contradict the mistaken facts being presented as their conclusions. Such a remarkable undertaking has taken place in the past, where a single disenchanted individual such as Carl Olof Jonsson delved into extensive research without conducting a thorough investigation. He believed he had found indisputable evidence, unaware that his claims had already been refuted a decade earlier. This led many members of the brotherhood to stumble, including a governing body member who fell into disgrace, much like what is happening today. However, even after 47 years, it seems that God has not deemed it necessary to rectify the interpretation of the "Gentile Times" as described in scripture. There are individuals who, due to their lack of understanding of history or the Bible, simply choose to see and believe only what aligns with their personal beliefs. When these individuals then bring up their views in a public forum, their actions and behavior can be classified as driven by apostasy. Their actions go against the language found in scripture, and these "few hardened" individuals are compromising its teachings. 1 Timothy 4-6 New Living Translation Warnings against False Teachers 4 Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.[a] True Jehovah's Witnesses should be cautious when visiting this website and not be misled into believing information that contradicts historical facts or the language of scripture. It is important to remain steadfast in the understanding of the scriptures, and should be swayed by its numbers and language mentioned in scripture. Therefore, when Luke 21:24 is mentioned, it carries both present and future significance. The warning to the Jews about the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE was not the complete prophetic fulfillment, as they continued to be subject to the gentiles. The fulfillment of that prophecy could only be realized when the Jews were liberated from the dominance of the gentiles. This domination came to an end in 1914, as history unmistakably shows. When a small group, who can only be labeled as "skeptics," refuses to acknowledge the evidence presented by the Bible and human history, their credibility is diminished. Therefore, such critics cannot be relied upon to provide an unbiased perspective, much like apostates who have always distorted this topic. Therefore, Scripture is clear on how to handle those who have come to know God's truth and then distort His teachings to align themselves with the world. 2 Peter 2 covers this very well, along with other citations of Scripture. It's not simply a question of believing in 607 or 1914. The real issue lies in the dissemination of a distorted message to the public, which contradicts the true teachings of scripture. What should be emphasized is a thorough understanding of scripture, rather than personal interpretations. It is precisely because the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses adheres to this correct approach in applying God's word that they have not been "removed" by God. Indeed, God has deemed it necessary to eliminate those who questioned His word through skepticism and instigated conflict within the brotherhood. This unmistakably demonstrates that those who are truly equipped to comprehend these matters are not the ones indulging in skeptical independent research, which only leads to discord and division. There is absolutely no excuse or justification for questioning God's word, whether it's done publicly or privately. If a believer is genuinely experiencing conflict, it is important to address it respectfully by seeking guidance from their Elders. The Watchtower article titled "false stories" can serve as a helpful guide for any sincere witness. However, it's also crucial for these witnesses to understand the purpose behind this forum: to provide a platform for both disenchanted witnesses and apostates to express their concerns along with their criticism as "revilers" against the Watchtower and its members.

I will not conform to apostasy, unlike you, Tom. My allegiance lies with God, for His opinion holds true significance, not yours. They find it quite insightful, just like those from any branch office or the Watchtower itself. So, what can they say about you, Tom? I've never believed that you, along with your friends like JWI and anyone else opposing God, are real witnesses. That's what you are demonstrating to the public here, aren't you proud? I must reluctantly side with Srecko on this matter of failing to discern between pretenders and apostates. It is no surprise that his heart has become hardened when you individuals continue to behave as though you are still a part of this world.

It seems that you have misunderstood the Watchtower article regarding false stories, Tom. While it is true that James was insistent that the Elders were reluctant, and he demanded to be disfellowshipped, I highly doubt that this is the truth. Particularly for the crime he was accused of. No Elder would hesitate to pass judgment on a baptized member according to God's will. The optics alone are harmful. Therefore, your speculation is unfounded and unverified. You would need to personally advocate against the civil treatment stipulated by secular law through the state's legislation. I am not involved in determining how laws treat criminals and their intent as per the laws. Let's make that perfectly clear. I did not instruct James to commit the crime he was charged with. It appears that you are trying to hold me responsible for that, Tom, just as James holds the Watchtower responsible for following scriptural guidelines on disfellowshipping. His behavior should serve as a clear indication that he didn't initiate it as you suggest. Since God's laws are not respected here, why should secular laws be any different? That's the impression you're giving the public. Try defying secular law and see what happens—other than being excommunicated.