BTK59

When God grants wisdom and understanding through the Holy Spirit, it is never a trial. Job got it, so why haven't all of you understood that you must find your own meaningful purpose.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

According to an article on the Bible Student site HERALDMAG.ORG

It's clear that Pastor Russell and the groups he proudly led had no association. Even today, these independent Bible Students continue on their own path, with some even embracing Adventism, as was the case in Pastor Russell's time. This does not mean that Russell was heavily influenced by Adventism, but rather that he found certain aspects intriguing enough to investigate. The false claim that Pastor Russell was an Adventist is an apostate vision, and today's Bible Students who support Russell's perspective will ardently defend this truth.

However, my statement remains valid. Not a single apostate has taken the trouble to mention that Brother Adam Rutherford, who is unrelated to Joseph Rutherford, made reference to the Babylonian Chronicles in his book volume 3.

It is irrelevant if certain Bible Students associate him with their long-forgotten alliances. What truly matters is what is referenced in all of his books. Personally, I own eight of them, and they all consistently refer to AD 1914 and how it marked the culmination of the Gentile Times, just as Russell had mentioned.

So, that's for the update. I'm sure someone else will find it interesting.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This is fairly obvious from several passages in the 4 volumes, especially the first which paraphrases Joseph Seiss and C.T.Russell quotes, often nearly verbatim. Also he references Morton and John Edgar who were Bible Students in Russell's time and who went on to publish two extensive volumes on the Great Pyramid. In fact, one page of Volume 1 of Adam Rutherford's book (122) is nearly a full page quote from Russell's "Divine Plan of the Ages" (191-192). A.Rutherford even calls it the Bible in Stone several times, just as Russell (and Seiss and others) did. And he also calls it the blueprint of the Divine Plan of the Ages. He uses all the same scriptural references that Russell used in support of the supposed prophetic importance of the Pyramid.

John and Edgar Morton had their own comprehensive ideology, which Pastor Russell only briefly mentioned in one of his publications. I recall it being a three-paragraph long piece. However, it is important not to overemphasize the influence of the Morton's ideology on Pastor Russell, as his primary interest lied in the Great Pyramid. He merely utilized the pyramid to validate certain biblical interpretations through calculations. It is crucial to note that Pastor Russell did not extensively engage with the pyramid schemes that others were involved in.

Of course, he visited the Great Pyramid, but that's not the point. The associations were "independent", meaning they would think and act independently in the best interest of their respective churches. Although this sometimes conflicted with Russell's own views, he never sought to impose his authority over others.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But he has also adjusted a few of the dates, ignoring most of the pre-1914 dates that Russell made note of, and makes much use of the 2,520 number, starting it not with the destruction of the Temple (which he would put around 587 BCE) but with the beginning of the Babylonian Empire at the final destruction of the Assyrian Empire, which he places in 607 BCE. He uses the astronomy-backed dates instead of the Barbour/Russell date that the Watchtower still uses today. He also counts from the exact beginning of the Babylonian Empire's incursions against Judea in 604 BCE (first official year of Nebuchadnezzar) to show that they (2520) end with the Balfour Declaration in 1917. But the future dates he focuses on would have put the start of the Millennium in AD 1994 and the end of the Millennium in AD 2994.  

The key here is whether people are truly interested in the truth. For instance, if someone is genuinely interested in the truth as presented in Adam Rutherford's books, they should make a point to read all of his published works.

By examining the historical events, one can clearly understand the significance of the year 1776, which contrasts the alternative perspective of 1799 as a significant date. It is worth noting the inclusion of both 1917-1918 and 1914, as mentioned by the person in question. It is important to avoid distorting their words or manipulating their ideas.

I found it quite interesting when Adam depicted the British Empire as the savior of the Jews in 1914. Referring to Britain as "Israel" and the Jews as "Judah" adds a poetic touch to the story.

Anglo-Saxon Israel or Israel-Britain -- Adam Rutherford -- 1939

Snippet:
"It is important to notice, too, that since the Great War of 1914-1918 Great Britain (Israel) and the Jews (Judah) have occupied the Holy Land together, the latter being under the guidance of the former,"
 

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But just because I happen to suggest an explanation, don't be so trigger-happy to counter it that you end up criticizing the explanation of the Governing Body, only because you didn't realize that I was simply agreeing with the Governing Body's explanation.

Please refrain from trying to deflect the conversation with wordplay. My criticism was not directed at the Governing Body or the Watchtower's interpretation of scripture using their own concordance and lexicon. They do not use the same one as you do. I was actually critiquing your choice of words in criticizing the NWT, especially since you may not possess adequate linguistic skills for such an endeavor.

These belong to your responsibilities, not mine, nor the Watchtowers' if Its understood correctly.

"he NWT gets rid of the apparent contradiction by changing "he" (Jehovah) to "one" to try to make it align with 1 Chronicles. It might work here, but does not work for other cases that are similar."

The Watchtower is not contradictory in its tone. It's all coming from you.

"In fact, there have been persons who treat the opening two chapters of Job as a later addition just to explain away that very ending. Personally I don't think this is necessary. And there have been some attempts to differentiate passages that can attribute certain anthropomorphic characteristics when God is referred to as Jehovah but not when he is referred to as El or Elohim in the original language. (Such as "regret" etc.) The full discussion should take many pages."

There is nothing regrettable about simplifying passages in order to enhance understanding. The NWT has an "excellent" format in its linguistic application. No one is obliged to use the NWT, just as no one is obliged to be a witness. The choice is entirely up to the individual.

I just thought of something, maybe Adam Rutherford is a long-lost blood brother of Joseph Franklin Rutherford that isn't listed on Judge Rutherford's family tree, lol!

1 hour ago, nkboswell said:

NKBoswell Comment:
It seems that your position is based on personal observation rather than published information. I have had similar experiences with individuals who have read the comments of C.T. Russell was in the Overland Monthly as the Pastor of the Brooklyn Tabernacle. He offered a profound comparison, suggesting that the release of the Jewish people from Palestine in 1914 effectively liberated them from their gentile bondage. I found that comparison quite fascinating.

Correct. That statement is solely based on my personal observation. I regrettably inserted the comment before referring to the Bible Student publications as a reference point. Thus, according to our revised chronology, 607 BC, 537 BC, and even AD 1914 are supported by scriptural facts and numbers without the bible directly stating the number 2520, or 1914 as demanded by apostates, except AD 1914 which is also used by the Bible Students. Therefore, I highly encourage visitors to exercise discernment when encountering and accepting alternative personal presentations. It is important to recognize that not all of them are grounded in facts.

You are correct about the freedom granted to the Jews from Palestine. Pastor Russell understood the struggles of the Zionist movement against the Turkish Student uprising that started around 1872-1874 or perhaps a little sooner, events that are also documented in secular history.

No, it seems that Adam Rutherford had no association with the Bible Student Association or the International Bible Student Association as far as I can tell. Further research may reveal a different story, possibly indicating a more recent affiliation after some Bible Students decided to sever ties even before Pastor Russell died.

Since the Bible Student Association operated independently, many Elders brought their own interpretations to the table. Some embraced erroneous ideologies that weren't acceptable to Pastor Russell, but since they were all learning something new, any insights that appeared to be valuable were discussed.

Brother Adam Rutherford embodies irony. In the past, individuals of all Christian faiths acted with respect towards others, regardless of their own denominational affiliations. However, in today's world, this kind of consideration is lacking, due to internal apostasy and various other factors.

In his remarkable series, "The 4-Volume Books of Pyramidology," Adam Rutherford not only embraces the Watchtower's stance on 607 BC and AD 1914 but also enhances it with thought-provoking insights. In the most captivating way, Rutherford skillfully links historical data to his own observations, leaving readers astounded since the 3rd volume was published in 1966 with the first volume published in 1957. Through  meticulous research and eloquent writing, he elevates the significance of this topic to new heights, making it impossible to ignore as a researcher.

Sometimes I wonder if that's where the disgraceful COJ got his information from in the late 70s to begin with, linking the Babylonian Tablets to his mistaken theories as if he were the first one, according to the impression given at that time. Heck maybe Bro. Adam Rutherford got the idea from the Watchtower, but not the link to the Babylonian Chronicles since the Watchtower explained that much later than 1966, like in 1971.

Pyramidology -- Adam Rutherford -- Volume 3, 1966

"British drove the Turks out of the rest of Palestine in A.D. 1918, by August of that year.

This, it will be observed, runs parallel with the “ Seven Times ’”’ or 2,520 years (Daniel 4, *°) ‘The Times of the Gentiles,’ which, as explained in Book I, pp. 114-122, began with the commencement of Babylon’s 70 years’ supremacy following the fall of Assyria in 607 B.c. and terminated 2,520 years later in A.D. 1914. According to the Babylonian Chronicle (B.M. 21901), the Babylonian campaign which overthrew the last king of Assyria (Asher-uballit II) in 607 B.c. occurred during the months June to August. Then 2,520 years later, the First World War developed during the months June to August A.D. 1914. It was on 28th June 1914 that the assassination of Archduke Francis Ferdinand, heir to the Austrian throne, stirred up the trouble leading to the Austro-Serbian declaration of war on 28th July, which was made the pretext for the big powers going to war, commencing with Germany’s declaration of war on Russia on August 1st. Then on the 23rd of August 1914 the war spread outside Europe by Japan declaring war on Germany. The times of the events in the years 607 and 604-603 B.C. as supplied by the Babylonian Chronicles B.M. 21901, 22047 and 21946 and their corresponding parallels 2,520 years later in A.D. 1914 and 1917-1918 are tabulated on page 934.

Adam Rutherford's earlier works are currently part of my extensive library. For over 10 years, no apostate has mentioned Brother Adam Rutherford's works and how he linked BM21901, BM22047, BM21946, which were desperately used by apostates and a few active witnesses, or so they say, to refute the Watchtower Chronology. These works have been available for a long time and easily accessible to true and honest researchers. It is remarkable how Satan deceives, showing that he hasn't lost his touch since Eve.

Aside from linking the "complete" liberation of the Jews from dominance through the Balfour Declaration of 1917-1918, it is worth noting that the British Empire actually witnessed the initial emergence of Jewish freedom in 1914 from Palistine.

Yet, this is only of interest to people researching the past to draw their own conclusions that would further aid its understanding of dates already thoroughly explained by the Watchtower for their members, without contributing to conflicting narratives and misdirection.
 

15 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Indirectly, at least, by allowing it, God "incited" David. Because Jehovah is the Universal Sovereign and can intercede if he chooses to, his allowance of anything is by his own purpose and will.

That's why comparing the NWT is worthless in your case. The emphasis on its completeness serves a righteous purpose as the Universal Sovereign, who can determine where His creation has erred.

Another strategic maneuver to divert attention to a separate issue.

16 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

What I did with George was EXACTLY what I did with you, Tom, Juan, and myself. Which, of course, was absolutely nothing

Except for George, who we both know is a lie intended to mask your deceit as a self-righteous pretender, you are accurate about the rest of your opposing friends. You treat them differently just like you do with people like the apostate Srecko, who supports you.

Let's avoid getting into another unnecessary conflict, shall we?

I've come across the term "allowed" in various Bible passages, but it fails to address instances where one gets upset and prohibits those who challenge with their own words and hostility. Silencing has never been effective and never will be.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job 1%3A6-22&version=ESV

The composition he created about the topic he started showcases his authentic character. He takes ownership of addressing the repetitive and tiresome portrayal of a dormant matter concerning Bible Students. This issue holds no relevance to the present-day Watchtower and its genuine members. Nevertheless, even modern day Bible Students recognize the importance of defending themselves against misleading information.

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Yes. LOL!!! The only reason you have survived here through hundreds of posts and George88 survived here for over 1,000 posts is because both of you continued to pay homage to me all that time. Thanks for the homage, both of you; it's so important. In fact, in some topics, I was referenced as JWI, JWInsider, or less edifying epithets by George and you in over 100 of the posts found in a single topic. All I need is to see my account name or some other reference to me in "print" and I bask in all that homage that you and George have paid to me all these months. Now it's just a matter of trying to figure out what I can buy with all that homage you guys have paid to me.

Only a few individuals, such as comfortmypeople, Anna, Tom, and apostates like Srecko, pay respect and submit to you, a group of disingenuous pretenders and former members. I merely unveil the dishonesty of your contributions as an ex-bethelite on this forum. Your actions sow discord under the guise of serving God. Therefore, continue feigning righteousness with this meaningless comment that is clearly devoid of truth.

What have you done with George that you should have also done with Tom, Juan, and yourself? It's not fair to act impartial when you and Tom get angry and ban others instead of addressing the deceit and lies that all of you have contributed here as witnesses not in good standing or pretenders.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I have moved several posts that veered off on the topic Russell/1914/chronology to a new topic:

You didn't need to go off-topic in an attempt to impress, especially since you didn't succeed.

Visitors, I see no value in engaging in a futile debate with an unchangeable individual who falsely claims to be a witness yet denies the significance of 607 BC and 1914. This person presents misleading arguments that do not align with our current understanding, seeking only to sow discord and division among our faithful community. For a decade, he has been a persistent source of dissension and should have been removed long ago, much like how he excommunicates those who speak the truth here. His actions are motivated by self-preservation, stemming from a multitude of distortions.

As I may face a ban for speaking the truth, I recommend reading Pastor Russell's 2nd and 3rd volumes from his book series. There you will discover the truth about what Pastor Russell was referring to. This individual has been caught in a lie about Pastor Russell not connecting the "gentile times" and 1914, making it impossible to reason with an unreasonable man, whom people here are praising.

_the_time_is_at_hand / thy_kingdom_come

There you will find passages such as:

Pastor Russell had a profound understanding that for Christ's Kingdom to come to fruition, the right conditions needed to be present on earth, serving as a clear indication. World War I served as that unmistakable sign, signaling the end of the gentile times precisely in 1914. There is no room for confusion or disputes regarding the timeline: it was not 1915, nor 1916, nor any other year one might suggest. Those who deny the historical accuracy of 607 BC, 537 BC, and 1914, like apostates, are simply unwilling to accept the undeniable truth revealed by the existence of World War 1.

Do you not believe that today's Bible scholars have remained silent regarding the extensive dissemination of disinformation on the internet?

The analogy of the "proofreader" used by some is similar to the contrast analogy used by the Bible Students.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

A few cases like the typist's mistake of substituting 1873 for 1874 in the Author's Foreword, several like mistakes in substituting 1915 for 1914 and the mistake of making the Jewish Harvest end in 70 instead of in 69 (a mistake that the Author in 1904 corrected (p. 245, par. 2), but did not correct in the various places of its occurrence, because prohibited by the condition of the plates) the Editor silently corrected. As in the case of Volume I, linotype, which considerations of economy made him use instead of the more compressible hand type of the earlier edition, forced him to make slight verbal condensations without affecting the sense, in order to keep the pages of uniform size with the earlier editions, 

This Volume sets forth, what its author has been preaching for over forty years, that the Times of the Gentiles chronologically ended in the fall of 1914. The expression, Times of the Gentiles, in Bible usage signifies the years, or period of time, in which the Gentile nations of the world were to be permitted to have control, following the taking away of the typical kingdom from natural Israel, and filling the hiatus between that event and the establishment of God's Kingdom in the hands of Messiah—"whose right it is"—Ezek. 21:27. 

We could not, of course, know in 1889, whether the date 1914, so clearly marked in the Bible as the end of the Gentile lease of power or permission to rule the world, would mean that they would be fully out of power at that time, or whether, their lease expiring, their eviction would begin. The latter we perceive to be the Lord's program; and promptly in August, 1914, the Gentile kingdoms referred to in the prophecy began the present great struggle, which, according to the Bible, will culminate in the complete overthrow of all human government, opening the way for the full establishment of the Kingdom of God's dear Son. 

We are not able to see behind the veil; we are not able to know the things progressing under the direction of our glorious Lord and the members of His Church already glorified. Our thought is that somehow the Lord is taking a hand in the affairs of the world now as He did not do in times past. We do know that the great Time of Trouble, which has begun, very closely corresponds to the Divine declaration respecting the time and conditions of the establishment of Messiah's Kingdom. The Lord Himself informs us that, at the time He shall take to Himself His great power and reign, the nations will be mad and the Divine wrath will come. A little later on the time will come for the judging of the dead, and the giving of the reward to God's servants, small and great, leading on finally to the destruction of the incorrigible, who would exercise a corrupt influence upon the earth—Rev. 21:8. 

All over the world people knew of the expectations of Bible Students in respect to the year 1914; and when so stupendous a war as the present one broke loose, when the winds of strife began to blow with such fury and destruction, thousands remembered what they had heard and read respecting the end of the Gentile Times. Thousands today have come to fully appreciate the times in which we are living. The influence is very helpful and inspiring. A realization that we are in the Day of the Lord, and that very soon all of His saints will be gathered to Him by the resurrection change, has a stimulating and encouraging influence upon Bible students, separating them from the world and its fears and ambitions and fixing their eyes upon the Crown of Life, which the Lord has in reservation for them that love Him most. 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

He is referring to the future tense, as he believes that Christ has begun to reign in his heavenly kingdom, and the Bible students now need to wait for the summoning of the 144,000 at some point in the future. We share the same privilege, but our time has come much closer due to our understanding of the generations.

You can also research on the internet to find out how modern-day Bible students defend Pastor Russell against the same disinformation being spread here.

Did Russell Originally Obtain the Date 1914 From Pyramids?

On one website, we find the statement: "Russell got the date 1914 originally from the pyramid measurements." On other sites and in many forums, some claim that the date 1914 was "based on" measurements of the Egyptian pyramids, or the Great Pyramid. This idea is repeated on many websites, forums, and Facebook groups. On another site, one may find: "One of the strangest 'revelations' from the pyramids was his calculated date of 1914. The date was based on his measurements of the interior passageways of the pyramids." Both statements are incorrect. By examining Russell's studies, Vol. 2 and Vol. 3, we can see that the date 1914 was obtained from Biblical time prophecies and parallels. The date was not originally obtained from pyramid measurements, nor was it based on measurements of passageways of any pyramid. It is true, however, that Russell believed that one pyramid, often referred to as the Great Pyramid, and this pyramid only -- not pyramids -- does verify the date 1914, as well as many other Biblical dates.
 

Therefore, feel free to use the information temporarily posted as one of the habits here, and after a ban, the removal of content that proves them wrong.

Have a great evening, as I won't be posting any more since it appears only nonsense is at work. I'm calling it a night!

Let's see tomorrow how JWI will explain his controversial statement.

OVM

(5) The feet and toes of the image, representing the Papacy and the commingling of State and Church domination, we find pictured in the ten horns of the terrible beast. These beasts are to rule the world until the end of Gentile times of world domination, October, 1914, which will also be the end of the Jewish times of Divine disfavor. Then the dominion will pass from these beasts, and their bodies or organizations as Governments will be given to the burning flame--turned over to destruction. The Prophet pictures the end of Gentile times and the manifestation of the Ancient of Days, whose throne was like a fiery flame and who caused the judgment to sit. It was at that time that the words of the last beast came into judgment--the great words uttered by the horn that had eyes and a mouth and that spake great, swelling words,--claimed by nearly all expositors of the past to represent Papacy and its boast of infallibility, etc. Then the beast was slain--the great and terrible beast, and his body.

It certainly seems like something that did occur during WW1. I would be interested in seeing how you refute Pastor Russell's words that contradict your argument.

20 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I also wondered why you brought this up seemingly out of nowhere when you said:

My statement is based on facts, whereas your observation is not. Therefore, my intention was to unveil and correct the misconception, not to make a baseless claim.

22 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I assumed, that you had your own reasons to bring up the "controversy" portion by adding "not the end of the world as claimed by former members."

It is an undeniable fact that apostates use the phrase "the end of the world" to refer to both 1914 and 1975. Your continued use of such tactics to distract is just another one of your manipulative strategies.

25 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I had to assume that you knew good and well that Russell understood the "Gentile times" to mean something quite different from what we now believe and that therefore Russell's Gentile Times did not end in 1914.

When individuals oppose it, they have the ability to express their emotions freely, but this does not make their claims necessarily true. Therefore, I strongly encourage anyone who is interested to conduct their own thorough research and uncover the genuine facts.

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I'm sure it was for the same purpose because you knew I might tell the truth about how WW1 demolished Russell's predictions about never coming out of that war until the crumbling of ALL human institutions, kingdoms, and organizations (with the exception of an ever-expanding Zionist rule from Jerusalem that would finally fill the earth). I was sure you knew the truth, that WW1 refuted Russell. But you also knew that if I told the truth, this would play well to an angle you have promoted about how correct Russell was about Zionism. Oddly, however, your promotion of Russell's false prediction as "correct" flies in the face of later publications in Rutherford's book, Light I, II in 1930. Your take on it, ironically, is a criticism of the Governing Body's take on it. 

Your statement appears contradictory, but I invite you to challenge it. WW1 Pudgy was unable to do so, but I encourage you to try.

I won't delve into the entire history of the Bible Students like you're attempting to do, in order to gain the attention of the masses in the closed club.

31 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But for anyone who knew the context and timing of this Canadian claim about Russell and the "end of the world" it would have been obvious to them that this came out at the time when Russell admitted that his faith in the 1914 date was faltering (mostly between November 1913 and May 1914). Russell knew good and well that he had been using the term translated from "aionos" (world, system of things, age) and had even defined "cosmos/kosmos" (world, system of things, national and international institutions) to be able to speak of the "end of the world" but then show that his definition, even of "kosmos" referred not to the planet itself but all the kingdoms and institutions of the world which would be dissolved through the time of trouble starting in 1914 and the following months, most likely. 

You are effectively refuting your own points with your contradictory statements. Your argument is strong enough that I need not contribute.

33 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

When the war finally started his wavering faith in 1914 was strengthened again:

There is absolutely no ground for Bible students to question that the consummation of this Gospel age is now even at the door, and that it will end as the Scriptures foretell in a great time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation. We see the participants in this great crisis banding themselves together [...] The great crisis, the great clash [...] that will consume the ecclesiastical heavens and the social earth, is very near. - "Now Is Our Salvation Nearer", The Watch Tower, May 1, 1914.

This example merely showcases your inclination to analyze beyond the surface, disregarding countless literary passages that clearly convey intent instead of mere speculation. By selectively posting only the ones that support your argument and refusing to share others, you grant the public the freedom to conduct their own research.

12 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

None. That's my point. If someone is just about to come into the truth, and they ask their study conductor if it's true that this or that controversy really happened, or if it was true that when Brother Jackson testified at the Australian Royal Commission on CSA really said that Proverbs isn't really talk about corporal punishment. Then what happens when the study conductor says, "No, Brother Jackson was never asked to testify, or we would have heard about it in the Watchtower or on JW.ORG." (This supposedly actually happened, although the original question was only about whether he testified at the ARC, not about corporal punishment.) Now, who is spreading disinformation??? 

You're resorting to posting senseless content to camouflage your own shortcomings. I refuse to engage in that. Stay focused on the topic you initially introduced and avoid creating unnecessary controversy.

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The likelihood of "stumbling" a new one may be even stronger when we outright deny something through ignorance of controversial issues. That person who asked the study conductor about something, and the study conductor spread disinformation in response. Now we have a possibility that the one studied with can just easily pull up the video, and he will begin thinking that JWs are some kind of cult who will deny reality. And the study conductor may begin wondering "why such important information was hidden from us." Now we have TWO persons potentially stumbled, when just being aware of the situation could have easily resolved the whole thing, and Brother Jackson's words could be better defended in context.

We have irrefutable evidence of this through the individuals who arrive here only to be disheartened by your negativity, behavior, manipulation, and dishonesty. Therefore, I must acknowledge your exceptional performance.

16 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

When we are so quick to deny anything negative out of ignorance, we not only look bad, we can easily cause others to stumble, especially when we consider how easy it is for people to find controversial information online. I think there will come a time very soon when any question can be asked of an AI LLM and it will quickly spit out ALL sides of the answer to a question, pro and con. We shouldn't be so arrogant as to suppose that only OUR own preferred side of a controversy will be available to interested persons. 

You're not just part of the problem, but also are not the key to the solution. What advantages does the visitor gain from being here? How can people weigh in on the pros when there are only cons.

10 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

A better question is: what motivated nearly ZERO brothers that we know about to stand up for the Bible's view? What motivated brothers after they began following Russell, to study the pyramids and write extensively, even visiting the Great Pyramid and writing books about it, in full support of faulty mathematics, and faulty astronomy? What made them so gullible? What motivated The Bible Students Monthly (in the issue just prior to the one you showed earlier) to make exorbitant claims that this pyramid was the ORACLE of Jehovah? Why did no one seem to question it at all until the very day that Rutherford came out in the Watchtower and said it was from Satan?  

That's why I encourage visitors to explore the true narratives firsthand instead of being swayed by dissatisfied individuals who reject what they read.

What motivated brothers in the past to stand up for Pastor Russell and correct the misconceptions surrounding pyramology? Some brothers took it upon themselves to directly address the issue by personally funding the placement of a pyramid stone near Pastor Russell's grave. Unfortunately, there was misinformation circulating that claimed the Watchtower had acquired and installed the stone.

"Pastor Russell
was always firmly opposed to all forms of occultism, as will be discussed in greater detail in the section on Pyramidology later in this chapter; and he never knowingly employed any mystic symbols in his ministry and teachings."

"PYRAMID USAGE. Finally, we need to comment on yet another absurd charge in connection with the Pyramid. This was made by David Reed, who attempts to build a case on the alleged usage of questionable forms of pyramidology in the Pastor’s over all ministry. First, he cites the fact that a seven-foot-tall stone pyramid was used in the Society’s Rosemont Cemetery near Pittsburgh to mark the location of burial plots for members of the Bethel staff, including Pastor Russell, and then writes."

Another misconception that was circulating at that time involved the confusion between the "name" Rutherford and another Rutherford who was involved.

"A monthly publication, Pyramidology, by Dr. Adam Rutherford of New Castle, began in 1941. The Forest Gate Church (London) Bible Monthly was published 1936-1985. Phillys Stracy compiled an evening devotional book, Songs in the Night."

This insider knowledge may seem irrelevant today, as it reflects people's confusion in the past about the language used by others. However, it is important to acknowledge that we cannot make well-informed judgments about those conditions since we were not alive during that time. Whether Pastor Russell found the pyramid scheme intriguing but useless, or if later under Rutherford it was condemned as the devil's work because of the usage by other Christian denominations, none of these matters as it holds any significance now.

59 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Yes. But as I said, if there is a good answer to anything controversial that you or I or others bring up here, then that answer appears right here, online, where the original controversial point has probably been rehashed in other places with or without an answer.

What positive outcomes can be achieved by spreading disinformation? You are the one responsible for manufacturing these controversies, unwilling to accept the truth when it is presented. Let's consider the example of the Russell comment and the apocalyptic rumors about the end of the world. You are well aware that Russell had to issue a full-page disclaimer to counteract the misleading ideas propagated by certain individuals, just like the Watchtower eventually did for the year 1975. However, you persist in promoting a false narrative, continuing to fuel this controversy. So, what beneficial response are you hoping to achieve with your personal denial?

This controversy is purely a product of your imagination, not of the Bible students, the Watchtower, or Jehovah's Witnesses. It has already been clarified, so it requires a nonconformist diehard to keep revisiting this deceit. Therefore, what is the benefit of airing this nonsense in public? Who stands to gain from this other than apostates?

59 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

For example, let's say that someone claims that "Pyramidology" was presented as truth to householders as late 1933, nearly 5 years after it was declared "from the Devil" and two years after most Bible Student associations and individuals began identifying themselves as "Jehovah's witnesses." This point was brought up to me once (by a Bethel sister, who was a proofreader, no less) and I was asked to question the writer about making a small change in the "ka" book which referenced this point of organizational history incorrectly.  This book ("ka") was about to be reprinted for the mid-week Book Study. I claimed to her that her statement was false. But she showed me the 1928 through 1933 "Informants" which she had copies of. This was something controversial to her(,)and she knew it, and she wanted someone else to pass the question back to the writer. 

What relevance does any of that have to do with the remarkable progress achieved by the Watchtower since gaining full control in 1950? Do the events of 1933, which a sister found controversial, truly matter? Did she fully grasp the significance of what she was reading? It is true that 60% of Bible students were in the process of relearning, while 30% did not adhere to Pastor Russell's ideology and chose to leave, leading to a separation from the IBSA. History shows that. However, what does this ultimately prove? Merely having access to dubious insider information does not hold much weight, especially when your own credibility is questionable.

59 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

To be sure, she was skewing the emphasis on pyramidology to make the point more memorable. The "ka" book reference never mentioned pyramidology, only the date when the Society stopped selling the Studies in the Scriptures series. 

Does today's Watchtower endorse pyramidology just like Brother Rotherford failed to endorse in his tenure as the head of the Bible Student Association under the publishing house the Watchtower? What was the true motivation behind the pyramidology that you personally find distasteful? It aimed to present an alternative perspective on chronology, which even Pastor Russell himself found intriguing but not essential. Those were Pastor Russells thoughts about it, regardless of what you dream up to refute his actual words by misrepresenting them, just like you did with "the end of the world in 1914" apostate fiasco.

What positive lessons can be derived from inaccurate information? You are eager to persuade others to adopt your perspective, so demonstrate how one can benefit from learning from misrepresentation. Instead of accepting your lack of credibility and deceitful conduct, how can one actually learn from your experiences? If tarnishing your reputation is your aim, then congratulations on a job well done as a role model.

59 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But I also learned that the people who get angry over such things, when the answer is not in favor of their interests, are the ones who KNOW there is no answer, or don't want to admit the answer. That's why I'm not concerned about bringing up controversial things publicly. There is nothing secret that will not be made known. 

And I've found that online the anger is most often from those who, deep down, realize that they don't like the truth. But I always remember Proverbs 6:17; Psalm 26:3; Psalm 31:5: ". . . Jehovah, the God of truth."

Before criticizing others, it would be wise to reflect on your own actions. It seems that you are quick to judge others, especially me, while disregarding your own anger when you ban someone. Why do you continue to ignore this?

Matthew 7:3-5 English Standard Version
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

11 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

By "refuses" I think you meant that I was the first one to link his spoof accounts to him. Of course, it was easy for a moderator to look up the IP address and see that he wasn't hiding anything. They all came from the same IP address from the same account and same location that his regular account came from. A moderator can also see where a person gets the email address associated with their account(s). He didn't even try to hide his account sources via a VPN service as some people do.

Certainly! I'm thrilled that you've finally acknowledged the extraordinary abilities that you possess and are actively employing, particularly in implementing your ban capabilities, which you've undeniably possessed all this time despite your initial refusal to recognize them.

I briefly believed that you censored me by disabling my ability to post comments, but thankfully I am now able to do so again. I attribute the issue to a minor technical glitch for the time being. It is possible that your future decision to ban me will be a deliberate strategy to enforce your personal rules by defending and protecting unchristian people here.

18 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

An astute moderator can even watch the IP addresses which come from various VPN services, and although the locations are not really where the person is located, you can tell when several accounts have used the same VPN service which usually only offer a limited set of VPN servers.

I'm confident that you possess the same capabilities as us. There are specific reasons why certain information being shared here is actually a disinformation campaign, intended to perpetuate further deception.

21 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Of course, I'm not really recommending that anyone create multiple accounts. But I doubt that anyone has ever been banned here over the practice. This forum includes a lot of "entertainment" content, and I think that most people find the use of multiple accounts either entertaining or psychologically revealing. Either way, that's a form of entertainment for me. I happen to like puzzles, too. TTH , for example, clearly created the separate accounts for entertainment purposes, including satirizing some who took their separate accounts a little too seriously. But so what? No one cares about the separate accounts unless they are clearly used as a means to create contention. And even when this happened, it might be a small annoyance to some persons, but no one has been banned for having multiple accounts as far as I know.

It's accurate that people often ban those they have a personal issue with or dislike. However, over the course of 10 years, have they truly managed to suppress the truth from being revealed?

4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Hands that shed innocent blood. Fortunately, on a forum like this few will physically murder anyone. Some will take on personas like B.T.K. or Billy The Kid, known for shedding innocent blood, but this is just their own form of fantasy gunplay.

Have you ever considered the consequences of your actions, JWI? You have caused a great deal of harm and division by pitting brother against brother. It is not enough to simply excuse yourself and seek refuge in a loyal fan base within a closed club. Remember the stains of blood on your own hands.

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

There is a concern that is sometimes brought up that if someone brings up a controversial doctrine here (like chronology date setting related to the times and seasons, or "overlapping generations" or "pyramidology") that this alone will stumble persons and they will no longer respect the Watchtower or the Governing Body, which in turn can lead to their falling away and losing eternal life. That's a valid concern, but this can be taken so far as to be the equivalent of a claim that no one should read books, or read the old Watch Tower publications, or Russell-related court documents, or newspapers, or use Google or Bing. When all the same controversial information is available from Mr. Google, what does it matter if another person brings it up here? If there's a good answer to the controversy, then where else but to bring it up online, where the controversy can exist side-by-side with the truth about it.

Instead of imposing your own beliefs on these matters, why not engage in a constructive dialogue within an appropriate setting? Your apostate views are not suitable for an open forum, especially if you identify as a Jehovah's Witness. Before passing judgment on others, consider your own actions. You do not have the authority to judge the Governing Body, and your credibility to judge the elders is questionable. Your personal opinions hold little value in this context.

I guess it's only funny to the ones doing the banning, not the ones being banned.

Oh! By the way, @nkboswell Watch out! You have just received the kiss of death. You are now marked as one of us. I suppose you are now Allen, George, Alphonse, me or perhaps one of the many other aliases he enjoys linking to one individual while he "refuses" to link the ones generated by Tom to cleverly mock a shameful reaction.

That's just the way things are here. If you embrace JWI's logic and pay homage to him, you'll be alright. To maintain favor with Tom and JWI is crucial, reminiscent of how first-century Christians were compelled to do so with the Pharisees.

27 minutes ago, nkboswell said:

From what I have read and understood from the topic, it seems that most past participants who have not been removed for taking on the responsibility for the truth and mostly those who remain are insincere individuals except one. That is indeed a significant burden to carry, especially considering that you may not be able to change the minds of those who have already firmly made up their minds and hearts, not necessarily in the right direction, but in their own way.
Wouldn't it be simpler to convey God's message of disapproval using texts such as Proverbs 6:16-19 without engaging anyone here? It seems clear that they will not be able to convince us in the public eye of the behavior described in the Omnibus Mand and the conclusions drawn from it.

It appears that this has been attempted before, but unfortunately, individuals who tried to simply downvote were banned. It seems that merely posting text without any commentary or context is frowned upon here, particularly if the text comes from the Bible. Curiously, I am aware of someone who suffered a similar fate for posting Bible verses without offering any additional insight by being banned. It seems that here, it does not matter whether a person engages in arguments or not. What they do not want is for their true nature to be revealed to the public. They seem to be keen on maintaining an authority that mimics the Pharisees, exerting control and dominance, which contradicts the instruction found in 1 Peter 5:3. It is clear that they prioritize self-preservation over true transparency and accountability.
 

You have made a false accusation in this open forum regarding the Watchtower's reference to the end of the world in 1975 by citing publications from 1966, 1968, and 1969. Before you continue down this path of deception, I urge the public to read the Watchtower literature to gain a genuine perspective on the meaning behind the year 1975, which primarily focuses on the 6,000 years of human existence.

Although there was certainly an excessive amount of overthinking in the past, leading to incorrect conclusions, one would have needed to experience that era in order to grasp it fully. Furthermore, during that time, there was an "assembly" titled "Why We Have Not Been Told ‘That Day and Hour" that provided an explanation to the brotherhood that could not have been any clearer. It aimed to guide individuals and ensure their genuine comprehension. This is the reason the Watchtower put an end to such speculation in 1974 with the publication of the following insightful article.

*** w74 10/15 p. 635 Growing in Appreciation for the “Divine Purpose” ***
The publications of Jehovah’s witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man’s existence will be completed in the mid-1970’s. But these publications have never said that the world’s end would come then. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation “Why We Have Not Been Told ‘That Day and Hour’” was very timely. It emphasized that we do not know the exact time when God will bring the end. All we know is that the end will come within the generation that sees fulfilled on it the sign that Jesus Christ said would then be in evidence. (See Matthew chapters 24, 25.) All indications are that the fulfillment of this sign began in 1914. So we can be confident that the end is near; we do not have the slightest doubt that God will bring it about, the speaker stressed. But we have to wait and see exactly when, in the meantime keeping busy in God’s service.
 

The article "Divine Purpose" is rooted in a series of assemblies that emphasized the divine aspect, such as "1971 Divine Name," "1972 Divine Rulership," "1973 Divine Victory," and so on. Most of the congregation comprehended the significance of the year 1975 without misinterpreting previous articles or taking them out of context, unlike some irresponsible individuals who falsely claim to be witnesses.

Although I don't agree with the topics discussed in the closed club, as they often revolve around irresponsibility, there's no need to perpetuate this distortion to the public, especially when they are already aware of the false narratives propagated by former members.

Now you can understand JWI's beliefs based on what he posted.

47 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Look up: "end of the age" "end of the world" "consummation of the age" "cosmos" "Matthew 24:3" "Matthew 28:20" etc.

He fully supports the apostate propaganda without reservations.

This is the type of deceit and dishonesty that disgusts people and leads to banning. Joking aside, the image that Toms presents is just a way to divert the public's attention from their true hidden agenda: deception. Using the name of the Watchtower to defame and slander God's people is a highly irresponsible act. Such individuals shame both God and the Watchtower by misusing its name in an open forum, thereby engaging in irresponsible behavior.

12 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Sounds like you are angry that I wouldn't get angry. "Fiery coals on the head" syndrome I guess

This comment is specifically for your fan base, not intended to be an expression of truth. However, I will refrain from expanding further on the matter.

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The 1914 Bible Students Monthly has already been discussed at length, so I won't belabor it again here under this topic. Best if people do their own research as you say. The easiest way is to get the ZWT database that was once available for free from Bible Student websites. Look up: "end of the age" "end of the world" "consummation of the age" "cosmos" "Matthew 24:3" "Matthew 28:20" etc., and especially pay attention to the previous years of Bible Students Monthly. Then of course, one could go and see Rutherford using the same exact definition of the word "world" when he repeatedly announced: "The World Has Ended - Millions Now Living Will Never Die!"

Absolutely! It is crucial for visitors to witness firsthand how personal perspectives can be used to deceive. They should have the opportunity to explore Pastor Russell's words in writing, where he clearly stated the truth. It is perplexing that you, along with some former and current members of the Watchtower, persist in making baseless accusations while refusing to acknowledge this.

So, you're suggesting that instead of addressing the issues with Russell, you now want to argue about Rutherford? Are you also interested in discussing your misleading interpretation of events in 1975, which you seem to be defending, even though it's a false narrative?

12 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Or maybe I imagined that they were being rude to me or insulting me, or worse yet, downvoted me, and I just banned them without telling you. More power to the moderators!!

It is important to note that you both seem to be intentionally referring to Tom's aliases and pretending as usual. The fact that Tom's old aliases are still accessible only confirms the moderator's power to ban after years of deceit. It is evident that past aliases banned by you have not been able to reconnect under the same name, making it an unjust behavior. It is clear that there have been instances of rudeness, insults, and obnoxious behavior from your side. This obsession with deception should stop. Didn't you just admit you have insulted in the past? Why have you not imposed a ban on yourself? Once more, this blatant double standard in defending the indefensible is becoming apparent.