Evacuated

I have known a few serving police officers. Some who were before studying. Another who became a police dog handler. Others who resigned conscientously.

There are conscience issues regarding an oath of allegiance, obvious issues around possibility of having to carry or use weapons, or using and facing of physical violence in effecting control and arrests.

One has to consider the secular demands of the job as policing is a 24-hr operation. There are obvious issues around militarism, patriotism, and the general social environment of such an intensive occupation. 

It would be interesting if there was a response from any JWs who serve or have served.

It's free of charge and without obligation to become one yourself.

Obviously, all those who become eligible for Christian baptism, which is an act of faith, must have had knowledge of that requirement imparted to them at some point by someone, as no one is born understanding the need for Christian baptism. Rom.10:17 makes that clear surely:

"So faith follows the thing heard. In turn, what is heard is through the word about Christ."

As for how crucial a study conductor is to one's eventual eligibility for baptism?????

I know more than one that was baptised without going through a bible study program with a conductor in any consistent manner. I had 3 different study conductors, and with one, I actually took the study myself on a number of occasions,  as the person frequently hadn't prepared. I know one person who just got up and said yes to the questions at the assembly about 44 years ago, without having had a study conductor, and has happily served Jehovah ever since. So, in some cases perhaps, a study conductor served as a hindrance rather than a help toward baptism eligibility.

And of course there are those who have had excellent study conductors, gone through a consistent program of study with a couple or more books, got baptised and who were very soon disfellowshipped or drifted away. Were they eligible for baptism? Who knows?

Eligibility for baptism is described fairly clearly in the book of Acts: 

“Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit." Acts 2:38

“Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself" Acts 3:19
The baptisms seem to have followed some kind of of instruction by someone in the know, although the time-scale differs. For example, a discourse and evidence of holy spirit was enough for some who had already quite a scriptural knowledge and way of life in the earliest days of the congregation. Acts 2:27-38;41.  Later, after Phillip spoke at some length instructing the Ethiopian eunuch, he was obviously eligible for baptism because, "when they came to a body of water, and the eunuch said: “Look! Here is water; what prevents me from getting baptized?” Acts 9:36. It seems nothing because "With that he [the eunuch] commanded the chariot to halt, and both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he [Philip] baptized him." Acts 9:38.

Apollos later needed assistance to understand matters more fully because "when Pris·cilʹla and Aqʹui·la heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him."  Acts18:26. Presumably, a suitable baptism followed for Apollos, because a little later, after Paul's instructing some Ephesian disciples of a similar understanding to Apollos, "they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5.

So it would appear that eligibility for baptism depends on the individual repenting, turning around and (in harmony with the spirit of texts such as Matt.16:24, Rom.12:1, 1Pet.3:21) dedicating or setting themselves aside for a sacred purpose.

A suitably qualified study conductor may well be of great assistance in that process.

3 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Is there a watchtower video that warns children to be weary of possible pedophile men in the congregation their parents force them to attend?

I have heard it is filed with the one that warns them about jaded, griping complainers that spread pernicious rumours and "theocratic" conspiracy theories.

1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

working for Christian charities, I wouldn't be allowed to be a witness if I did.

Rubbish!

1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

no one should be fired for not saying merry Xmas, neither should they be forced to not say it either.

But are they?

Just a simple color coding based on a traditional grouping of Bible Books according to type, not chronology or authorship.  This is not the only grouping in existence, but it is a commonly used version. Others may care to comment in more detail on the history of the particular grouping as used in the New World Translation, but  In the case of the Hebrew Scriptures, the grouping dates back at least to the Septuagint version. 

The alternate colours make it easy (for some) to find a particular book in the list of 66,  (if you have an idea of the groupings of course).

Pentateuch or Law (5 books): Genesis to Deuteronomy

Historical (12 books): Joshua to Esther

Poetic or Wisdom (5 books): Job to Song of Solomon

Prophets (17 books): Isaiah to Malachi

Gospels (4 books): Matthew to John

Acts (1 book)

Letters (21 books): Romans to Jude

Revelation (1 book)

si-oh-bee-ee

On 12/8/2017 at 1:49 PM, Matthew9969 said:

I highly doubt you would ever see a jehovahs witness working in a Christian store or a charity.

Not in a Christian store if disseminating apostate material. But Charities? Many work for these without qualms of conscience.

On 12/8/2017 at 1:49 PM, Matthew9969 said:

no law here that states a person must say merry Christmas for the business they work for.

Isn't the question more about legal protection for those who conscientously refrain from the particular greeting? Can anyone be forced on pain of dismissal to deliver a religious greeting that offends their conscience?

On 12/10/2017 at 2:41 PM, Bible Speaks said:

14 buildings of 33,000 square meters, located on ten hectares

The posturing of duped Russian authorities in their pathetic attempts to prevent the preaching of the good news of the kingdom must carry some sort of internal kudos. The seizing of this little postage stamp of property carries little weight in any  positive estimation of the value of the administration there otherwise.

In reality, it is as about effective in it's aim as the activities of the slavery sanctioner, Oddone Colonna were, in his actions to trample vindictively on John Wycliffe, who famously cheated the authorities of his day.

As Jesus prepared his followers for this kind of onslaught, we can take comfort in what he said: 

"Be on your guard against men, for they will hand you over to local courts and they will scourge you in their synagogues. And you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations. However, when they hand you over, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak, for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour;  for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you.  Further, brother will hand brother over to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death.  And you will be hated by all people on account of my name, but the one who has endured to the end will be saved." Matt.10:12-17.

The saddening element of it all, however, is the inevitable familial treachery that is flushed out in this necessary exposure of the demonic domination of the earth, albeit a necessary excercise in the programme for the permanent solution, under the direction of our King Christ Jesus, and our Sovereign Lord, Jehovah.

5 hours ago, Anna said:

01/08/2018

2017 do you mean?

26 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I strongly suspect that it has ALREADY gone to the Highest Court,

Understand the reference as to Jehovah's view.

But has it been to the highest "earthly" court? Or is there a further appeal pending?  Can't work out where it is from these postings.

7 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

You said that there isn't a hierarchy in the organization

NO No Noble Berean, you are reading too quickly! I said this "Any other "heirarchical perception" exists only in the minds of those men who hold it I'm afraid, whoever they are."

I didn't say that there isn't a hierachy, I said that any hierarchy that attaches a position-related value to individuals within it exists only in the mind of those who hold that perception. Interesting how an unreality can be part of an unfortunate reality don't you think? 

Anyway, don't worry yourself unduly over it. It will all get ironed out. "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." 1Cor 15:24.

Seems best to get in line now to me...really! It relieves a great deal of stress and wasted effort. 
 

7 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

Yes, very neatly laid out. But it still misses the point. The attaching of relative value to people just because they occupy this or that functional role in an arrangement of humans, even if it's theocratic,  is where the problem lies. Everybody does it we know, and as @JW Insiderdeftlly points out:

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

each of these "prominent ones" should also be considering themselves to to be the "rank and file" at least on weekends.

Jehovah puts it more bluntly when He says that the inhabitants of the earth "are like grasshoppers" at Is. 40:22.

Jesus gave clear counsel at Matt.20:24-27 when he instructed his disciples: "Jesus called them to him and said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. This must not be the way among you; but whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave".

There will always be problems when the waiter starts to think he is more important than those at the table, just because he has the job of handing out the food. Even Harry Callahan observed of a "waiter" with deluded self importance "You're a legend in your own mind".

There is much that could be said on this matter. But to stay on topic, the '75 brouhaha was(is) the product of the minds of "grasshoppers" in the heat of the sun. One starts jumpin'.... they all start jumpin'........

Thankfully, it's all cooled down a bit now, on that front at least. 

8 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

2022!!!

Be Ready

only 1457 shopping days left for someone to buy your home.

Great!! I'm gonna max out my Sainsburys card for 30 months and then transfer the balance to Santander!!!

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/best-0-credit-cards#longestdeal

5 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

It seemed to me that whole congregations were breathing a sigh of relief

Amen to that, and probably in that, relief that Armageddon did not come in 1975 if they're honest!

21 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs

This reveals a basic characteristic of those who "observe" JWs from the sidelines. The presumption of a sort of heirarchy along the lines of typical human organisation.

Actually, all JW's are rank and file. Any other "heirarchical perception" exists only in the minds of those men who hold it I'm afraid, whoever they are.. So in reality, 1975 enthusiasm, (other than enthusiasm for just another "last days" year nearer the end than 1974), was generated by some rank & file JWs. And there were some other rank & file JWs who did not share that enthusiasm.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization

Imagine these statements were made in the 1st Century.

I believe that an example of a life-saving statement then was given by Jesus himself when he said:

"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." John 17:3

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.

And to match the fuller quote, note the reaction of some at the time to that same life-saving direction that had come from Jehovah's organisation:

"For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is God’s power." 1Cor.1:18.

2 hours ago, Anna said:

do you think when Br. Herd made this statement: "And now we know all about that generation, right?"  (about six minutes into Dec. broadcasting) he was actually being ironic? 

I'm not sure ironic is the right word without talking to him. I'm open on that one.

However, (with respect) I get a clear message of "relative unimportance" when it comes to the significance of "generation" debate.

12 hours ago, Anna said:

the correct understanding

the "current" understanding is all it can ever be until it has passed, and then we "will know accurately", just as we "are accurately known".

On 9/23/2017 at 11:05 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Just visit to meet neighbors

We are at liberty to do this any time we like.

It is called "informal" witnessing.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.

Quite true.

And more than ever I'm convinced this is apparently a US thing. I just can't recall hearing anything particularly emphatic on this matter, other than magazine statements here and there with qualifiers as quoted above, and US CO talks on cassette tapes with starry-eyed brothers saying "You've got to listen to this!".  And of course the odd brother who were (at our level) viewed endearingly as "eccentrics".

I remember meeting an old friend on the street in early '72 who told me, cynically, that I was expecting the world to end in 1975. I didn't know much about that idea then, but I just said to him well, if it doesn't, we will both be here, but if it does, who will be laughing then? I didn't even bother to follow it up after at all. In reality, it just didn't figure in my day to day thinking. But it certainly effected some it appears.

It was most definitely NOT a big subject in my experience on a KHall level, neither in the book studies (apart from a brief flurry in the Nations Shall Know study). It didn't figure at at all in my Bible Study coming into the truth. (I was asked to study the Life Everlasting book, but I rejected it over some sort of "great tribulation" confusion.) I remember a  group of witnesses from my area moved to California in '72. They were very "end soon" oriented I remember, but we just thought they were "over the top"!

It must be a "British" thing. As far as my limited experience goes, we were just not swayed by American hysteria on this matter. We took no notice of end date statements. Maybe we were ALL APOSTATE!!! 

Watchtower March 2016 p26-28

"New World Translation in its “Glossary of Bible Terms” gives this definition of a prophet: “One through whom divine purposes are made known. Prophets acted as spokesmen for God, conveying not only predictions but also Jehovah’s teachings, commands, and judgments.” Though you are not uttering predictions, you speak for God, proclaiming what is found in the Word of God.—Matt. 24:14.......................
Although we are not prophets in the absolute sense, by imitating the self-sacrificing spirit of such prophets as Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Hosea, we too can successfully accomplish Jehovah’s will for us today! "
 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

The prediction, except for a few circuit and district overseer statements, were not about 1975

This just about caps it for me.

I came into the "truth" by a similar route although a little later than JWI, Truth Book, Things in Which It Is Impossible, Life Everlasting, Lamp book. In that whole time, nothing significant was stated to me about 1975 at all, other than (what I felt at the time was) incomprehensible mutterings about the end of 6000 years since Adam's creation. The few 1975 encounters I did have came a bit later, more 1973-4.  I remember the "Later than You Think" headline from a 1968 Awake that some used to still carry around on the ministry in later years.

The cultural angle seems even more significant after reading these recent postings. I need to be persuaded now that 1975ism wasn't predominantly an "American" thing as my experience of the matter, apart from one already mentioned brother, as a topic of talk or conversational  significance, was minimal.

2 hours ago, AllenSmith25 said:

Personally, I knew a few [ex-witnesses]  that I worked with. I had no problems with them. They knew I was an active witness, and they held no animosity toward me. We got along just fine.

Now this raises an interesting angle. Why is that some ex-witnesses can live with their choices and those who remain as witnesses, and others go all nasty and vindictive? Probably for a separate discussion? I might just post it if any think it is worth a look?

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Perhaps, in your culture it was different, but in mine, there was no hysteria attached.

Valid observation for me. When first encountering the idea about 1972, I thought it was everyone's understanding as I knew very few Witnesses. But as time went on,  I found it to be a patchy eccentricity rather than hysteria. 

However the fact remains that some of Jehovah's Witnesses DID get seduced by the song of '75 and some of Jehovah's Witnesses DID NOT get seduced by the song of '75.

And yet, we're all still here!  GET OVER IT!

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But definition i was provide is not "innocently"

Apolgy accepted. You did misunderstand me . You are not included in the description " innocent". This adjective I applied only with reference to the definitions you copied from Google. These of themselves do not carry the negative associations later formed by the manner in which these terms are defined and used.