7 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

a message of judgment like Jonah

That would be something, especially if the result was similar to this: "And the men of Ninʹe·veh put faith in God, and they proclaimed a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them." Jonah 2:9

@AnnaWell I know you probably mean this: "I am not thinking this is a sinister or underhanded way to over assert authority," but when you then say this: "insinuating our prime motive for obedience is to survive Armageddon", to use the word insinuating is a bit confusing to me in view of it's meaning. I definitely do not think the GB are making such an insinuation which would sound remarkably similar to the one made at Job 2:4. And I am sure you do not think that either.

You have raised a lot of logistical questions here regarding Armageddon survival strategies, but my feeling is that behavioural strategies are what are required more than anything at this time. The logistical stuff comes later and I am sure the GB will know how to delegate in this area according to local need. And I don't think one has to have a particularly sophisticated view of things in order to work that out.

Coincidentally, a couple of days ago some were discussing this very matter regarding Is. 26:20, around the role of Kingdom Halls in providing protection. Some rather narrow-minded views were expressed, but one older sister just casually remarked, "well it can't be about literally hiding in Kingdom Halls because they haven't got any in Russia, and anyway by that time they might be shut down all over the place" Everybody agreed that whatever means of protection Jehovah will provide, we'll have to be obedient to his instructions then, just like we are now, and any strangeness about those instructions will probably be in comparison to what those who don't trust Jehovah are doing at the time. (Compare 1Cor.1:25: "Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men"). Wonder what Egyptians would have thought about what the Israelites were doing with sheep's blood on the night of the Passover, (if any were aware)? Ex.12:7.

By behavioural instructions that seem strange, I mean ones based on, for example, Matt 5:29 "Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him." This is the kind of "strange " instruction that is going to lead to salvation, not tenting out in what's left of the Kingdom Hall car park! Or skulking through the countryside with grab-bags full of beef jerky, wind up torches, and bottles of water! (Although, who knows?).

Rest assured, "Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, " 2Pet.2:9. It's working now through our obedience to the advice and counsel we receive. We have no reason to believe it will not continue.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Psalm 23's omission of the divine name was especially glaring.

Quite, Especially as Ps 24:1 includes it!. This man made a better job:

5 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

Copy of psalms dated 1640

Fascinating to see an inconsistent use of Jehovah's name as mentioned in the preface. More detail on the reasoning would be of interest.

1640 - The Whole Booke of Psalmes.pdf

19 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

@Gone Fishing What were you trying to view when you saw that? Just curious.

I pasted the clip from a post which I reacted to. The poster responded to my comment as indicated in the shots below, but the post has now disappeared. Others quoted from it also, after me.

This is serious wierdness. I do not understand it???

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JESUS DID NOT TELL US THAT his faithful SLAVE WOULD PRODUCE PERFECT spiritual food.

But HE DID NOT SAY THAT SPRITUAL FOOD WOULD BE PROVIDED FROM ANYWHERE ELSE!

14 hours ago, Anna said:

The purpose of that question was based on this reasoning in par 20.

Therefore, we want to develop heartfelt

obedience to the guidance we are receiving. (1 John 5:3)

If we do so today, we will be more inclined to obey willingly

in the future and thus receive the protection of our Father,

Then 1Cor 10:31 stands. The concept of  judgement on whether humans are classed figuratively as sheep or goats is drawn from the parable which shows that judgement to be based on how they treat Christs "brothers" (Matt 25:31-46).. So, respect and solidarity for and with anointed Christians, and particularly the Governing Body, is a key component of the favourable judgement.

But if anyone thinks that just standing by an organisational arrangement serves as the sole ticket to Armageddon survival....well..... let me know how that works out, although the "probably" is starting to look a bit "probably won't" from here.

I am looking at a whole range of other scriptural criteria as well, (like Mic 6:8), on this issue, and I am going to continue to be very grateful for the provision of a shepherding arrangement to help and support me in the discerning and applying of those requirements. To me that is the part of the purpose of the congregation as described for example at Eph 4:11-16.

On that basis I cannot see that encouragement to be obedient to instructions and directions by means of the Christian congregation through these crtical times would be in any way a sinister or underhand scheme to over assert authority, or to somehow direct attention away from our need to have complete dependence on the "one who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen?na".

So, I do believe we are kicking into the same goal are we not??.............

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

900 attended his funeral

I'm not far from the venue and attend my circuit conventions there. This is not an unusual display of solidarity and fellow feeling amongst the brothers here. The fact that the Assembly Hall was used for the funeral is a verification of the level of support locally. 

"Mr RyanÂ’s funeral was held at the BristolÂ’s JehovahÂ’s Witness Assembly Hall last week and was attended by more than 900 people." (North Devon Gazette 6/7/2017)

2 hours ago, Anna said:

thinking about it logically does that kind of a spin make sense?

What kind of spin? The spin you propose? or something else?

2 hours ago, Anna said:

how can it be categorically said that there will be instructions given to us through some centralized body or agent?

What is the purpose of this type of question? If you believe that Jehovah is providing effective guidance now through his arrangements, as he always has in history,  then there is no reason to doubt that appropriate guidance will be provided by him regardless of logistical challenges speculated upon at this point in time. We do know the meaning of his name don't we?

2 hours ago, Anna said:

we will evidently have to rely directly on Jehovah and on miracles he will probably perform at that time.

Isn't that what we are doing now??

2 hours ago, Anna said:

If we are already judged as sheep before Armageddon, would it stand to reason that we would suddenly become disobedient, if we have proved by our life (on the basis of which we were judged) that we were worthy of being judged as sheep by our previous obedience?

Not sure of the purpose of this question in the light of the ancient advice at 1Cor.10:31 "So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall." (Not gender specific either).

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Wouldn’t it have been much simpler to say something along the lines of

Do you mean "the faithful slave should have said etc etc etc....."

2 hours ago, Anna said:

figure out the motive

Perhaps this helps: "they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account," Heb 13:17.

12 hours ago, Anna said:

in order for us to prove we are worthy of salvation

Well I think we all know this will never happen. The undeserved kindness behind the ransom is the key to salvation, but as we know, it has terms. That's the intent of Jesus words at Matt 7:21.

It doesn't matter how far you extend my illustration through the stages of a journey (of which "landing safely" is only the first), there will always be some set of protocols to ensure a safe passage. Even those who had no sin had a need to conform to Jehovah's direction, even if the instruction was just to determine a willingness to do just that. This was demonstrated with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden when the general statement at Gen.1:29 was modified by the detail at Gen 2:17.

Just because a potential "great crowd" of faithful (thus far) Christians have commenced washing "their robes.... in the blood of the Lamb" and:

• have not been fooled by declarations of "peace and security" ,
• are the surving "flesh" when the dismantling of Babylon is "cut short",
• witness (with understanding) the shaking of the "powers of the heavens",
• are judged as "sheep", 
• experience Jehovah's protection and deliverance through the attack of "Gog of the land of Magog" whilst witnessing the gathering of [Jesus'] "chosen ones" (whatever form that takes),

this does not then exclude them from any need to follow instructions from Jehovah, however these are channeled to them for the future.

There will be no "faithful and discreet slave" as we know it once these expected events have taken place. But there will be an arrangement to continue "the journey" safely, under Jehovah's direction. Ez.45:7.

So do I think that being reminded that obedience to Jehovah's instructions through congregational arrangements is a way that the Governing Body is saying “you better obey the Slave NOW, or you’re gonna die later.”, "like some kind of soft threat you make to a child"?

You could probably spin any knd of instruction Jehovah gives through an agency in that manner.

There are all sorts of points that could be made to address this matter but, for now, I prefer the statement made by (even) a demon-possessed woman when she stated of Paul and others preaching the good news, "“These men are slaves of the Most High God and are proclaiming to you the way of salvation" Acts 16:17.

This seems to embody the essence of what was more acceptably expressed at Zephaniah 8:23: “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

 

@Nicole , I updated my response while you posted.

4 minutes ago, Nicole said:

What is the spiritual value of selling a property? 

Money is released for furthering kingdom interests.

More than that, in the reporting of these matters in such an accessible arena,  those interested enough worldwide are enabled to see Jehovah's people moving forward. They are also helped to see that true Christians can successfully "make use of the world", contrary to some of the superstitious nonsense that permeates the views of those who criticise or seek to dominate the activities of others with their personal quirks of how Christians should behave.

For me, www.theworldnewsmedia.org serves an excellent function in that regard.

1 hour ago, Nicole said:

JW.ORG also posts news that have not spiritual value

This is not right. All the postings on jw.org have a spiritual value to those who wish to discern it. There is no need to counter a clearly personal preference even if displaying bias with something that is blatantly incorrect.

And this sad account of Bro. Philip Ryan's brutal and unjustifiable murder enables those of us interested to express solidarity with the family, thanks to Jehovah for the resurrection hope, and additionally reinforces our belief in the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, such as the conditions described at 2Tim 3:1 etc.

So, even if unintended, there is spiritual value here on www.theworldnewsmedia.org too.....for those who wish to see it.

@Anna. Is all this discussion about this little piece of advice in paragraph 20 of Chapter 21 of the Kingdom Rule Book?

"As in the case of those ancient servants of God, our survival of coming events will depend on our obedience to Jehovah’s instructions. (Isa. 30:21) Such instructions come to us through the congregation arrangement. Therefore, we want to develop heartfelt obedience to the guidance we are receiving. (1 John 5:3) If we do so today, we will be more inclined to obey willingly in the future and thus receive the protection of our Father, Jehovah, and our King, Jesus."

For me the thrust of this is "Make it a practice to obey the instructions coming through the current theocratic structure in the congregation right now. Don't fall into the trap of thinking because you are safe today, you are safe tomorrow. "He that endures to the end is the one that will be saved" With regard to the end of the current system of things, similar situations have occurred in the past, but those who survived followed to the letter, and to the end, the instructions they were given at the time. If you take heed of their example now, then you will be well prepared to follow  instructions quickly and carefully both now and in the future, no matter how or by whatever means they are given, because your very lives are involved"

Bit like saying " Well, you're on the right plane, we're taking off in a minute, but there are some safety instructions I need to give you as we are expecting some disturbance on the flight. Don't be too concerned, we've never lost a passenger yet who followed the instructions to the letter. Here they are, please pay attention............"

Let's turn it around. "Do not follow any instructions given through the congregation, particularly those coming from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, regarding any action that needs to be taken through the coming cataclysmic events that will accompany the end of the current system of things."

Let me know how you get on.

23 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Source

"In August 2017, the Vyborg City Court accepted the prosecutor’s argument that the New World Translation is not a Bible because it renders God’s personal name, represented by the Tetragrammaton, as “Jehovah.” This argument allows the prosecutor to circumvent the Law on Counteracting Extremist Activity, which forbids declaring sacred texts to be extremist."

This revelation of the real attitude to truth in Russia should make the whole of Europe afraid.....very afraid!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42104024

On 5/12/2017 at 3:18 AM, JW Insider said:

Of course, part of the problem is that Witnesses, like many fundamentalist religions, too, do not want to see "fabulous" creatures in the Bible.

On 5/12/2017 at 6:21 AM, JW Insider said:

So with words like "apparently" and "seems to refer" the Watchtower publications no longer tie the word to a specific real creature,

Interesting back ground research here, particularly as it raises the fascinating question as to why the symbolic references to Satan and to political entities are couched in language that, regardless of intended symbolism, nevertheless appears to reflect commonly held mythical images. The curious use of the word "Tartarus" and the rich man and Lazarus parable being other prime examples of this (to me).

Unfortunately, one can only surmise on the connections, however fascinating the dredging up of detail, which is why the "language of inference", as exemplified in the words of the latter quote above, is the best that can be employed.

There is one thing plainly emphasised to me by this information.

Regardless of the speculative origins of the Leviathan or Behemoth as literal animals,  the"composite" beastial imagery in reference to political powers, even the association of a "dragon" with the real ruler of this world, the reality of what these symbolic references relate to, namely Satan's domination of mankind by means of political entities through history, is far more terrifying and dangerous to any who wish to serve Jehovah than any literal beast, imagined or otherwise.

7 hours ago, David Normand said:

soft-patriotism

Standard fodder of TV soaps world wide.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

IT is interesting what colorful society we have here :)) Babylon the Great and Secular agencies are here to support WT JWorg. 

And so they should! And there are a lot who should be there who are not!

On 5/14/2016 at 10:47 PM, The Librarian said:

Can you tell me more about Phillip Ingram?

(Wikipedia entry mostly)

Phillip Ingram (born July 11, 1958) is an American musician. He is perhaps best known as one of the founding members of the Motown Group "SWITCH"
Ingram was raised in Akron, Ohio. He came from a musical family with six brothers and sisters who all sang and played instruments but only Phillip and his older brother, James, pursued a musical career.

In December 1976, the band Switch was formed with Phillip Ingram, Greg Williams, Jody Sims, Bobby DeBarge, Tommy DeBarge and Eddie Fluellen.

Switch was signed to Motown Records in May/1977 and went on to record five albums for the label. Their first album went platinum with such hits as "They'll Never Be", "I Wanna Be Closer". Their second album went gold, which included "Best Beat In Town" and "I Call Your Name."

Starting in 1984, Ingram went behind the scenes writing for various artists and working with various artists, films and commercials.

He still sings and records for television and radio commercials, works on films, radio station IDs, and recordings. In addition, he is working on production of new and upcoming artists along with Rex Salas. He has toured with Sheena Easton and a new incarnation of Switch.

Ingram is a faculty member at the California College of Music (CCM) in Pasadena, California, and teaches vocal lessons twice a week with their Vocal Arts Program.

Ingram has been married twice and lives with his second wife, Rebecca, in Reseda, California. Both are devout Jehovah's Witnesses, Ingram being an elder in his local congregation, as well as a pioneer, a person who devotes over 70 hours a month to the Jehovah Witness evangelism.

On 5/15/2016 at 4:13 PM, Melanie Sue Washington said:

The Brother is Phillp Ingram

Thanks for putting this right sister. 

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I have good imagine, don't you think? :))))))))) 

Yeah, you're a legend ........in your own mind!

Did you miss this request?

8 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

any rational thought

On 11/18/2017 at 12:16 AM, Anna said:

So if the government does happen to make mandatory reporting, that will make this dilemma so much easier for us,

Has anyone given any rational thought as to why mandatory reporting of alleged child abuse cases would make a difference to our process in this matter?

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

As for the identity of the sheep, it is a bit hard to tell because it is facing away, but I think it is @James Thomas Rook Jr.

Wrong again Tommy.....

https://www.sciencealert.com/sheep-celebrity-spotting-could-fight-human-brain-disease

33 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

keep informed

Doesn't matter where you go.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-42039793