Jump to content
The World News Media

Evacuated

Member
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    2,758

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    42

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Evacuated

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Witness said:

    The entire 'fish' has stunk before

    Actually a lot worse than stunk, and, on observation, it's still the same:

    Is 1:5-6:

    "The whole head is sick, And the whole heart is diseased.   From the sole of the foot to the head, nothing is healthy. There are wounds and bruises and open sores —They have not been treated or bound up or softened with oil."

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

    but the well-being of a child trumps the psychological trauma of a false allegation.

    So you are in the Lord Denning school of thought on justice then:

    “It may be better that innocent people should serve life sentences than that the law should be seen to make gross errors” (Lord Justice Denning 1899 – 1999)

    Also, do you feel that "the psychological trauma of a false allegation." does not apply to the child at the centre of it?

    You are adding confirmation to my view that finding of solutions to the problems in this area of tragic evil requires the concentrated effort of far better minds than those exhibiting the emotive, unbalanced, and limited perspective that appears in these postings.

     

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

    There is absolutely no reason why elders need an allegation to be Scripturally substantiated in order to report to the police, because reporting does not convict a person. The police need to do an investigation to find evidence of wrongdoing, but the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing that the elders do not have.

    There has been reference in this discussion about policy being good in theory but not practical in reality. This is an example of the same. It relates to a serious issue that seems to slip out of the frame in this highly emotive area of discussion.

    Even Wikipedia refers to the fact that "Allegations of sexual abuse can be inherently traumatic to the child when false. People falsely charged with sexual abuse often face numerous problems of their own. The nature of the crime leveled at them often evokes an overwhelming sense of betrayal. In highly publicized cases, the general public has a strong tendency to summarily assume the accused is guilty, leading to very serious social stigma. The accused, even if acquitted, risks being fired from their job, losing their friends and other relationships, having their property vandalized, and being harassed by those believing them to be guilty."

    I could cite examples of the trauma faced and experienced by those falsely accused, even to the point of suicide and murder, but there are organisations dedicated to defending and supporting such victims that provide a wealth of information to enable a more balanced consideration of this matter from a range of  perspectives. Linked below is one example.

    https://factuk.org/

    To say that, in the case of unproven allegations of child abuse, "reporting does not convict" displays a level of naivety, which, when compounded by an unqualified belief that "the police have capabilities to uncover wrongdoing" can only lead to gross injustice.

    I am afraid that the finding of solutions to problems in this area of tragic evil requires the concentrated effort of far better minds than those exhibiting such emotive, unbalanced, and limited perspective.

    Just sayin'.........   :)

    Dancing in Kingdom Halls to worldly music???

    in Topics

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

    To be honest,

    To be really honest @Matthew9969, these video clips are only superceded in cringeworthiness by the people who post them on line.

    I can only hope that the halls used are merely rented facilities. A Kingdom Hall is a center of true worship in a community, not a centre of buffoonery. I note that some of the euphoria demonstrated seems to have a relationship to the visiting of international assembly delegates. Well, if this is intended as a cultural demonstration and welcome, then I can only shudder at the reality of the state of culture in the host nation.

    There is no objection to engaging in this kind of inane lightheartedness in an appropriate setting, but if needs must, then go hire a community facility, or volunteer your garden. Don't go creating international embarrassment at such a childish and immature display in a setting normally used for educating people in Jehovah's righteous ways.

    And as for the observation that this pathetic demonstration should somehow constitute "new light", then I for one will take the darkness any day of the week!

    "As God is my witness" - (compare De.22::25-27)

    in Topics

    Posted

    De.19:15 is pretty explicit:

    “No single witness may convict another for any error or any sin that he may commit. On the testimony of two witnesses or on the testimony of three witnesses the matter should be established."

    However, increasingly, De.22:25-27 is set against this requirement as a justification for relaxing the 2 witness requirement in modern cases of abuse.

    "“If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die by himself, and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her."

    The witness absence factor is compared to a case of murder. We know there were provisions in Israel for this in the form of the cities of refuge procedures (Nu.35:10-32, where the single witness prohibition is stated at v30), and the bloodguilt removal procedure in the complete absence of a perpetrator as outlined at De.21:9.

    With regard to the sexual crime, further procedures were in place in which Jehovah's participation as a witness was invited. These are outlined at Nu.5:11-31. Obviously, Jehovah can serve as a witness in the case of secret sin of this nature (2Sam.11:27) without invoking a ritual,  because he is aware of these things. 

    Does anyone know of instances in Jewish history or commentaries where the matter outlined in De.22:25 was handled appropriately?

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Witness said:

    Aren’t GodÂ’s decrees enough of a “witness”?

    Well the statement at De.19:15 is pretty explicit.

    If we read De. 22:25-27, it says the sexual crime is the same as a murder (presumably also unwitnessed by an independent party). Now I know a corpse is a silent witness of a sort, but the testimony is a little obscure, and without clarity, it would be difficult to convict, so there were a number of arrangements in place to deal with that situation.

    However,  leaving that to one side, in the case of a sexual crime, the victim is one witness who might be able to testify; the circumstance seems to provide some circumstantial evdence. Is there any suggestion of how Jehovah could serve as a witness (which he surely could)? In Jesus case he did actually testify verbally from the heavens. In the case of David and Bathsheeba, he served as a witness sending Nathan. Just wondering, as Deuteronomy is rather sparse? There is some danger of a false accusation which presumably is a reason for the 2-witness rule in the first place. Any records or ideas shedding light here?

    But please forgive me. This is veering off topic again. i will withdraw until the subject is discussed separately.

    I have posted it here in case some constructive information can be contributed:

     

    Why a luxury compound?

    in Topics

    Posted

    10 hours ago, Witness said:

    Do you remember when the brother giving the baptism talk asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”?  

    No I don't actually. I remember this:

    (1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God’s Word as his holy spirit makes it plain?

    But I might add that this did not relate directly to my dedication vow which I made sometime earlier and actually not in those words.

    I don't think anyone who has really accepted Christ's ransom and on the basis of this has dedicated themselves to Jehovah God would actually recite some clause like statutory marriage vows or something. Or is that something that you had to do?

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

    Every member's responsibility regardless of an individual member's involvement in decisions or the member's position or rank. Refer also to consensus and doctrine of individual responsibility.

    Yeah thanks for the reference. I think I understood it correctly. I covered it with Rev.18:4.

    Bit like the suspected reasons for the targeting of Andrey Gosht's family?

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

    And in his last days he took young virgin girl to warming his bed. And his servants had important role in that arrange.

    And your point regarding this???

    7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

    two sort of Responsibility - Personal and Collective in WT Society.

    Good to be reminded thank you very much. Yes, we are very well aware of these personal and "collective", (think I understand this term), areas of responsibility which is why we, for example  1. obey 1 Pet.3:21, and 2. obey Rev 18:4. 

    42 minutes ago, Witness said:

    The Bible makes clear, that there are cases which DO NOT require two witnesses, such as murder and rape (Deut.22:25-27)

    Great examples, but in the case of unwitnessed alleged murder, the city of refuge arrangement has relevance.

    The unwitnessed rape incident is also intriguing. Was Jehovah ever called as a witness additional to the victim?

    Why a luxury compound?

    in Topics

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Witness said:

    So, yes, “substituting“ is a good descriptive term for them;

    No dispute then.

    15 hours ago, Witness said:

    Jesus said, “my kingdom is not part of this world” 18:36

    Quite. Hence an office representing.

    15 hours ago, Witness said:

    Because Jesus said nothing built within the earth was needed to worship in spirit and truth.

    Not a reason, just an observation. We don't need buildings to worship of course. But, using a premises to carry out necessary functions is quite in order. I don't see a problem with owning or renting, or even borrowing for that matter. Whatever is expedient for the purpose. (Compare Luke 22:10-12).

    15 hours ago, Witness said:

    For a false promise of paradise, people “sell” their identity to a corporation, in exchange for the work of their hands.

    This is just alien gobbledegook. Were you once doing this??

    Refusal of blood transfusions key to deaths of 2 Jehovah's Witnesses, coroner finds

    in Topics

    Posted

    Very sad report and we can only imagine how difficult this must all be for the surviving families.

    7 hours ago, Nicole said:

    Blood transfusions are forbidden under Jehovah's Witness doctrine, which holds that the Old and New Testaments command them to abstain from blood. Quebec law upholds the right of adult Jehovah's Witnesses to refuse blood as long as their decision is considered "free" and "informed."

    This statement is rather misleading in that  a "free" and "informed" decision on a matter does not sit well with the notion of that matter being something which is arbitrarily "forbidden under Jehovah's Witness doctrine". 

    Also, whilst the coroner correctly highlights the difficullty faced by physicians in balancing the will of a patient against their subjective medical assessment of the result, it surely is not the case that the medical oath to protect and save human life is one that must be fulfilled "at all costs"? Otherwise, how could abortion (apparently prohibited by the Hippocratic oath) be permitted? Seemingly running at about 100,000 per year in Canada, this would surely generate significant coroner input if unlawful. And yet, the outrage seems disproportionate.

    Once again, media and honesty publicly demonstrate their estrangement.

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Witness said:

    The organization is a man-made creation,

    This is just a generally stated, and basically irrelevant, opinion. 

    The repentant, murderous, adulterer, David, was still the anointed of Jehovah through his difficulties, and, despite his error, was still spoken of by Jehovah as having a complete heart. 1 Ki.11:4. As a result, he was not abandoned by Jehovah.

    This principle holds good at all times for individual servants of Jehovah, and in any endeavour they might seek to engage in collectively at the direction of that same God, Jehovah.

    Their united and prophetic declaration of intent is still as worded by Micah:

    "For all the peoples will walk, each in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of Jehovah our God forever and ever." Mic.4:5

    This joint declaration is reinforced by their individual determination as described in the words of Habbakuk:

    "But I quietly wait for the day of distress, for it is coming upon the people who attack us. Although the fig tree may not blossom, and there may be no fruit on the vines; although the olive crop may fail, and the fields may produce no food; although the flock may disappear from the pen, and there may be no cattle in the stalls; yet, as for me, I will exult in Jehovah; I will be joyful in the God of my salvation" Hab. 3:16-18.

    Individually and collectively, all those who serve Jehovah in the manner described above can expect to be treated "In harmony with the expressions of loyal love to David, which are faithful." Is.55:3.

    This is an amplified answer to your question raised  @Noble Berean,

    10 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

    I assume that God will back me on the condition that I make choices that honor him. But I'm not infallible. I can make mistakes and Jehovah God can remove his backing. Can the same be said for this organization?

    And I think it could also be said, in summary, that although Jehovah's servants can make mistakes, Jehovah God may not remove his backing, as long as they respond to His disciplene and correction (as experienced by David).

    Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

    in Topics

    Posted

    59 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

    I'm sure there's some element of pride when you have total confidence you are backed by God almighty?

    Can't see a problem with being proud of one's faithfulness to God's requirements and of success in fulfilling his commission? 

    Jer 9:24: "“But let the one boasting boast about this:That he has insight and knowledge of me, that I am Jehovah, the One showing loyal love, justice, and righteousness in the earth,"

    2 Cor 7:4: "I have great freeness of speech toward you. I have great boasting in regard to you. I am filled with comfort; I am overflowing with joy in all our affliction."

    etc...etc...

    Do you believe you are backed by God Almighty?

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.