Evacuated
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Posts posted by Evacuated
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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:
I couldn't know what motivations COJ or @PeterR or you or Eoin or others would have
I do not want to be included in the same breath as COJ particularly, or anyone else for that matter when motivations are discussed.
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44 minutes ago, PeterR said:
"increase their effective directing of valuable resources"
By the way, I am not saying this helps elders in directing effective resources primarily. I am saying that primarily it helps the individual who does the reporting. Or maybe that's what you understood? Anyway, I'll get back on the detail when I have more opportunity. Glad to engage.
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On 7/20/2017 at 7:02 PM, Brother Rando said:
On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus’ actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: “With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.”
I have never come across this view in the ministry in all my years, but can see from the internet it is by no means obscure. I am trawling through Watchtower literature now to see if I can find a comment on the anti-trinitarian aspect, have but not unearthed anything yet. As the text is frequently used in support of the Trinity doctorine, many comments appear in refutation.
Very curious and interesting. I am looking forward to others commenting on this.
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7 hours ago, PeterR said:
astounded by adding multiple questions marks
Not astounded. Just another misreading I'm afraid. Actually I'm expressing disappointment. And believe me, I do not pretend.
Oh, and those resources? I usually equate this with the properly motivated time and energy those who love Jehovah spend in His service. Which is why I included the Psalm 110 reference.
7 hours ago, PeterR said:Your concluding Ad Hominem attack is tasteless and baseless.
Sorry if it hurt. But I do not agree with your assessment.
You have stated your experience as expressed earlier: "The elder body I served with...". Your critical and jaded focus on, and descriptions of, the activities of your former colleagues, along with motive assessment (elders and otherwise) are apparent in a number of your postings: (no quotes required). The level of detail. and descriptive nature of these views indicates a period of cultivation.
Also, your similarity in expression to a whole army of critics orginating from within the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses, along with your similarly recognisable focus on a distorted view of logistics and administrative processes, confirm my impression that this kind of attitude is the product of a process that somehow does it's work within the congregational arrangement. (A world within a world). However, the manifestation of it appears from the sidelines, usually once a form of estrangement has occured.
In light of Douglas Walton's interesting perspective on the ad hominem (Media Argumentation. Dialectic, Persuasion and Rhetoric), I agree with him that it can be legitimate device when a character critique is directly or indirectly related to the point being articulated. I mean, surely we can see that when looking at Jesus words expressed so clearly in his denunciation of the Pharisees and scribes in Matthew Chapter 23.
In this case, I believe that there is no difference in my assessment or method of expressing it than that demonstrated by Paul in his warning to the Ephesians in Acts 20:30.
And to ensure that this posting remains firmly connected with the original posting shared by @Queen Esther, I believe that the joyful and zealous proclamation of the kingdom good news is one clear indicator of a spiritually healthy heart. Field service reports are just one of the tools available to keep those charged before Jehovah with shepherding His sheep alert to their spiritual health and safety. Her excellent poetic reminder is much appreciated.
- JW Insider and Anna
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6 hours ago, tromboneck said:
Eoin....have you found out anything, yet?
Appears to be a serious announcement on the legitimate site owned by the Russian Embassy in London so is "genuine".
As for the accusations, I suspect they will relate to matters in connection with how contributions for the Worldwide work are handled and issues relating to property ownership regarding Kingdom Halls. Of course all sorts of base accusations can be made once an organisation is declared illegal and criminal. Any of their activities can be designated thus.
But I can only surmise. I do not know the details. I was hoping someone on the forum might throw some light on the matter.
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35 minutes ago, PeterR said:
To you it seems that if it isn't measurable it doesn't happen.
I know you didn't think before you posted this. You must have measured to make the statement you did:
4 hours ago, PeterR said:I have personally seen this go both ways. I've seen people who stop reporting, and end up increasing their Christian activity, including preaching and general Christian acts of kindness. And others who stop reporting and well ... just stop.
This alone makes me a bit distrustful of the other statements you've made
42 minutes ago, PeterR said:valuable resources
Seems you immediately equate this with literature??? I can see you really are a product of the system. It's a funny thing, like a world within a world. But people with your attitude only seem to reveal it outside the organisation. What kept it hidden?
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2 hours ago, PeterR said:
I have personally seen this go both ways
People increasing their preaching by stopping reporting? Must be a bit difficult to measure unless they did very little before.
Anyway, I can't really see an issue with reporting our preaching activity. It indicates a great deal of useful information about the quality of our engagement in the preaching work as there is an easy correlation between time/placements/return vists/Bible Studies and of course numbers baptised.
If someone wants to falsify reports to make a good impression....well ignore Ananias and Sapphira if you wish (Acts 5:1-11). If someone wants to use reports as a barometer to measure the value of another Christian's motivation....well ignore the needy widow (and those who observed her) if you wish (Luke 21:1-4).
But if reporting is used a a tool to improve one's own preaching and teaching ministry, or as a spur to increase one's share in a unique and wonderful privilege, what's the problem? And if they assist in helping others too to increase their effective directing of valuable resources to achieve better results in that ministry with obvious benefits to those teaching and those being taught, what's the problem? That's even before we start applying Proverbs 25:25.
Of course being a Christian involves more than our reaching out with the kingdom message in this critical time, but I don't see any contradiction in measuring and publicising the results of our engagement in that work in fulfillment of Ps.110:3 and Matt.24:14. I fact (for me), in these last days of counterfeit Christianity, it sits quite well with James' words at James 2:18: "Show me your faith without the works, I and I will show you my faith by my works."
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4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
900 languages
903. And I never obsess over figures!
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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
If there was anything to it, it would have been part of the court case.
I mean is it a real announcement? The claim is obviously bogus.
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Has anyone seen this press release? Is it real????? (my underline)
It appears at: https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6172
PRESS RELEASES AND NEWS
19.07.2017
Embassy Press Officer on Lord Ahmad’s comments regarding the judicial ban of Jehova’s Witnesses in Russia
On 20 April, the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation satisfied a legal claim of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation by enforcing a ban against Jehova’s Witnesses and its subsidiaries in Russia on the grounds of extremist activities under Federal Law “On Counteraction of Extremist Activity” 114-FZ of 25th July 2002. On 17 July 2017, the Supreme Court rejected an appeal against the decision lodged by the Administrative Centre of the Russian branch of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The decision was based on the findings of the Ministry of Justice, which confirmed that at least 95 publications and materials of “Jehova’s Witnesses” could be classified as extremist according to the Russian law, or had already been included in the national list of extremist materials. Moreover, according to Russian law enforcement agencies, the management of Jehova’s Witnesses in Russia has also been involved in other crimes such as money laundering and seizure of its followers’ property.
Thus, Lord Ahmad’s allegations of a crackdown on religious freedom appear unsubstantiated. The ban has nothing to do with religion. They are also unacceptable. Russia doesn’t interfere in other nations’ judicial authorities’ decisions. Hope HMG will abide by the broader international principle of non-interference in internal affairs.
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11 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:
(if double reporting can't find the other, sorry!)
- Bible Speaks and tromboneck
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On 7/19/2017 at 11:28 PM, Brother Rando said:
to claim that Jesus misquoted the Hebrew Scripture and withheld his Father's Name is to claim Jesus Christ was deceptive is being honest.
is being DIS honest I think you meant? You can edit the post. (Added later) You did!
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Cant see this under Russian news yet:
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/LatestVideos/pub-jwb_201707_14_VIDEO
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2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:
The Tetragrammaton is NEVER found in the ancient Greek New Testament manuscripts.
This is a misleading statement and would be better worded as "The Tetragrammaton has not been found in any extant ancient Greek New Testament manuscripts."
Also, any balanced discussion on the subject will make reference to the statement in the 3rd Century Tosefta, Shabbat 13:5: "The books of the Evangelists and the books of the minim they do not save from a fire [on the Sabbath]. They are allowed to burn up where they are, they and [even] the references to the Divine Name that are in them." And this regardless of certain inconclusive views suggesting the references are to non-Greek scriptural writings.
We have to remember also that it took until the mid 20th Century to establish that the Tetragrammaton did appear in at least some of the Greek Translations of the Hebrew Scriptures available in Jesus day. It's later more complete absence from copies of the same confirms (to me) the blatant attempt to obliterate the name of the true God from His own Scriptures.
We must never underestimate the incomprehensible level of malicious intent of apostates to distort, twist and obscure the message of God's word. Their intent is clearly exposed by the apostle Paul in his second letter to the Thessalonians:
"He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god." 2Thess.2:4.
Much more could be said, but, once again, the discussion has veered from the original question. I couldn't let that statement go unaddressed, but I am bowing out now to await a more relevant thread.
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25 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:
Hades was part of Greek Mythology and a Pagan teaching, yet, that teaching was falsely inserted into the scriptures, or should I say, the Greek New Testament as Christendom began making copies to be distributed.
I am not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that the use of the word Hades was a post-apostolic insertion into the Greek Scriptures? Or do you mean that the false religious concepts associated with the word are what were later introduced by apostates.
It must be the latter view because the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures pre-dates the establishment of the Christian congregation, and itself uses Hades for the Hebrew word Sheol. Perhaps outstandingly so at Ps.16:10, because of the recording by Luke of Peter's application of this text to Jesus. (Acts 2:27, 31).
Please clarify.
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3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:
what did Jesus say about hell.
2 hours ago, Brother Rando said:Jesus Christ didn't speak nor teach about Hell.
If Jesus had spoken in English, would he have used the English word "hell" when quoting from Hebrew texts that used the Hebrew word "Sheol"? Perhaps he would have, if he had felt that the basic meaning of the word in English conveyed a meaning sufficiently matching what was commonly believed by those who adhered to the Biblical concepts attached to the Hebrew word. After all, both Sheol and the corresponding Greek word, Hades, were used interchangeably by Bible writers, despite there having been unscriptural and false ideas also associated with each word.
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, defines “Hell” as coming “from O[ld] E[nglish] helan, to conceal”. So despite the common misguided idea of "Hell" being a place where the wicked are kept alive in fiery torment, there is also a totally different association of meaning to the word related to it's origin and in keeping with a more Scriptural understanding.
Hence we have interesting secular usages in English:
- The word helmet, literally a ‘hell-met’, meaning a covering or concealment for the head. Hardly would anyone set their "head on fire" to protect it.
- In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them in a fire, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar in Winter, covering them, in order to preserve them;
- To "hell a house" has been said to refer to putting a thatched roof on a building to cover it, certainly not to set it on fire.
For me, however the most telling and simply thorough refutation to the false notion that sinners are somehow kept alive to be burned forever in a place of fire is clear in the words of Jesus to Nicodemus recorded at John 3:16:
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
your quoted scripture was COMPLETELY irrelevant
Dunno what your driving at mate. You're gonna have to be more explicit. I know you can do it if you try. You're an engineer after all and you talk a lot of sense..... sometimes.
However, your cut-and-paste innuendos are as old hat and irrelevant this time as they have been in the past, so just get real for a change and explain yourself clearly because I just do not "get yer drift".
The scripture I quoted applies to your spiritually jaded and sarcastic comments. You yourself stated that you are "a man with no spiritual qualifications". You have furnished your own proof of this, so what's your gripe? I'm not getting it?
Have you decided that your own hat actually does not fit?? I know you can't be offended by and don't care about anything anybody could say to you about anything, as you have stated so clearly elsewhere. So just what are you getting at??
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The comments made by Vladimir Ryakhovskiy are particularly noteworthy to me in this debate.
" the history of persecution for religious convictions - it always started with Jehovah's Witnesses, and then spread to everyone."
https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/vladimir-vasilyevich-ryakhovskiy-interview/
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1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
REREAD EVERYTHING, OVER AND OVER, UNTIL YOU DO UNDERSTAND IT.
Good advice actually (seriously). I'll check out your 7000 posts again......but later, (koff), I have got to watch some paint dry first.
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2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
Your credibility and a fair impunement of your motives
Something has got lost in translation here for me with this ....statement is it?
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9 hours ago, Shiwiii said:
How does one become absent from the body? As in 2 Cor 5, specifically verses 6-8.
By death.
Would you like to know the truth about Hell?
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Posted
Despite stating the obvious, of course he didn''t because he didnt speak English. Isn't the problem just about the ambiguity of meaning attached to this word rather than the word itself?
Could you clarify some points for me please?