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Evacuated

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Everything posted by Evacuated

  1. Evacuated
    My oh My! They're certainy not singing from the same hymn sheet there yet are they?
  2. Evacuated
    Thanks for clarifying your position. It appears that by removing the anchoring notion of 607 BCE to 1914 CE as a 2520 year, free run for the "Gentile" nations under Satan's dominion, you are then abe to "rearrange" the significance of other components of our belief, thus, as it were, changing the perception without altering the picture. A bit like those optical illusions..........
  3. Evacuated
    This is my question (re. questions) quoted by you. What a volume of response generated by this!! Cuttting through all the information and comments, it appears that in response to my question 1(essentially) When did the war between Michael and Satan take place? , you present the view that, rather than a chronologically defined event, this war takes place during the life of the individual Christian. First, for Jesus, and his successful mission completion signified the Devil's defeat in his case. Then, for the individual Christian, from when they renounce Satan's influence, successfully endure, and untl they complete a faithful life course. For my question 2, When is the short period of time?. You are saying that this is the short period of time of life we as imperfect humans individually enjoy, from the time when we became beleivers, until the time of our death, faithfull or otherwise. Particularly as related to Satan's life, this is relatively a short period of opportunity he has in which to attempt to corrupt us (war against us) individually. Acknowledging your comment that "this is not the ONLY way to look at these things.", have I got this right?
  4. Evacuated
    I have a couple of questions related to this if you don't mind. 1. Are you saying that the war between Michael and Satan and the casting out of Satan and his angels preceded the event referred to at Rev.12:10, and by this reckoning took place earlier than "the year when Jesus died and was resurrected"? 2. What do you think "the short period of time" mentioned at Rev 12:12 refers to?
  5. Evacuated
    Lot's of info to go through but I couldn't overlook this one. What would you say the particular "horn" making war with the "holy ones" represents?
  6. Evacuated
    Indeed, because "a foolish thing with God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men" 1 Cor:1:25. (No dissertation on the specific context required here, the principle holds good). I don't want to stray into the "overlapping generation" topic, so will keep to 1914CE. There is a great deal of background information in this thread, not least thanks to @JWInsider in pulling together relevant quotes and anecdotes. The basic proposition that we have is set out clearly at Rev.12:10, which says (in part): "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ,". Jehovah's Witnesses have stated unequivocally that this event took place in 1914CE. To support that view, they cite a chronological explanation; an assessment of world affairs; their own history and development; the response to, and the results from, their activity. An abundance of written material is available in support of these elements. Superceeded only, it would seem, by the abundance of material written in refutation. Is there no one here who can state succinctly why they feel that the announcement of Rev.12:10 did not take place in 1914CE?
  7. Evacuated
    And the result of posting libelous unproven claims on line.
  8. Evacuated
    This I agree with. The idea that a chronology dependant on the corroboration of secular academia would be essential to our faith seems to me to violate the principle at 2Tim 3:16-17. So either side of a debate for or against the significance of the year 1914 on that basis seems (also to me) to be only of mild interest. However, the application of Matt.24, Mk.13, Lu.21, Rev.6 (Horsemen), 2Tim.3:1-5 etc., to events and conditions since the early part of the 20th Century and the tying of these to the arrival Satan and his "angels" to eke out their desperate "short period of time" after their humiliating, heavenly defeat as described in Rev.12:12 is entirely plausible to me, and of far more interest than anything I have heard yet, au contraire.
  9. Evacuated
    Come now, surely we all can see the basic meaning there in Pr. 4:18 of the improving path of the righteous ones in contrast with the ever darkening road to destruction v19? Even the cross reference to Ps. 119:105 makes it clear that God's Word lights the path, and to see this light as becoming brighter, as knowledge, understanding, and application of the same word increases, is no textual stretch.
  10. Evacuated
    I agree with this entirely! Compare Pro.4:18; 1Cor.13:12
  11. Evacuated
    You flatter me! Not at all. I just find it curious how widespread these views are. I used to think (back in the day of course), they were just the province of people who had been Jehovah's Witnesses . I don't believe any human has a monopoly on "truth"per se. But I do believe I have some particular "truth" to share with, for example, my minister acquaintance. And I am more than happy to consider "truth" that he may be aware of, particularly of a spiritual nature. Refers to the fact that I am (at this time) not inclined to get into protracted, repeat discussion on the bullet-pointed, off topic list in the post I was responding to. Why? When do you think this takes place?
  12. Evacuated
    I'm glad you edited out the reference to born again, Baptist clergymen which was far too specific. And I agree. Such prejudicial stereotyping is indefensible.
  13. Evacuated
    This the other topic bit. I just answered the question "what is it that you feel Jesus gained in the 20th century that he didn't already have?" Strange question that. But in case you are asking it genuinely, Yes. And my clergyman acquaintance has shared a few of his insights on Scripture with me, as he has a respect for God's Word too. That's why we continue to have a constructive dialogue.
  14. Evacuated
    Rev.12:12
  15. Evacuated
    You know something @JWInsider? Your arguments here have great similarity to the views of one of my return visits, who is actually a clergyman. He is a born-again, evangelical Baptist and is able to reference these views to quite a variety of other "scholars" of a similar persuasion. I thank you for verifying the accuracy of my cited scriptures at least. There isn't much more to say really, other than to echo the rather sad refrain of the two Rogers, a British songwriting duo from the 60's : (slight euphemism here): "You've got your faith, I've got mine". I'm outa here!
  16. Evacuated
    Wikipedia reports that "As of July 2016, corporal punishment of children by parents (or other adults) is banned in 49 countries" The term "spanking" does not seem to appear in Jehovah Witnesses literature since the mid 1980s. A search of jw.org does not return any reference to the term at all. Have we modified our view on this matter?
  17. Evacuated
    No it is not to OK hit children, particularly with a belt. If parents are unable to prevent their children' disturbing others for whatever reason in the auditorium, then they should remain outside the auditorium, with their children, until the children are able to behave in a manner that does not disturb others.
  18. Evacuated
    Check the date and time of this posting. Is this really the only piece of JW News today???? OMG! I must be on the wrong channel!
  19. Evacuated
    Sorry to hear that your wife may be culinarily challenged!. However, you took the bait and came out, so I at least applaud your belated honesty.
  20. Evacuated
    You have probably hit the nail on the head here James. (Not sure who the "we" is for you). Anyway it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what "we" think because the reality will unfold anyway. Until it does, "we" can explain, rationalise, adjust as "we"wish. The way things turn out, however, is not the province of "we", and if "we" want to be there when the whole thing does resolve (or unravel depending on your point of view), then "we" had better be sure "we" are rootin' for the right side. Ah do declare!...Ah think ah've got it!!
  21. Evacuated
    "Evidently meant" to me implies "we understand by inference". I'm not writing these publications so do not choose the specific wording, but that's how I understand it anyway. I can't speak for what others do or don't understand, but I can't really see why there is an issue. I certainly don't find myself disputing with any of the JWs I know on these matters or that it is a bone of contention for them. Perhaps (as@JWInsider suggests) they ARE all hiding behind avatars and the like. Perhaps I'd better get one myself! Now that is simply not true. Outside norms that maybe you define for yourself as acceptable, and likely this is what many others feel. But I haven't noticed that the way in which we understand the concept of the "generation" Jesus spoke of is in any way unique. It may well be a unique application of that particular scripture verse, but the concept behind our understanding of the term is not. I thank God for any meal prepared by my wife, and I thank her as well. I don't understand your problem with this, really.
  22. Evacuated
    This was the section (in both Insight books) that interested me, because it reflects an understanding of the word "generation" to apply to a group of people that is not necessarily limited by a finite period of years, more by a shared experience. (Unreferenced post-publishing date editing of JW publications is another subject entirely). I do not pretend to be a Greek scholar and @PeterR has suggested a word study of the use of the word genea which appears at Matt.24:34 as a starting point for this discussion. Whilst this would be very interesting, greater minds have obviously chosen the English word "generation" as a suitable translation for this term. As this is reflected in 25 English translations listed at biblehub.com, then reinventing the wheel at this stage seems to me unnecessary. There's nothing particularly innovative about the "shared experience" view and seems to reflect the more recently defined "social generation" concept (itself only an observation of an existing phenomenon). However, the detachment from a clear, chronological anchor is a bit more unusual, though not unique. Not that this detachment is absolute, as there is a start point, the year 1914CE, but that's where the specific, chronological association ends...for now. Another significant and fairly unusual aspect includes the grouping of more than one "biological" generation. Again unusual, but not unique. So, without excessive references to easily obtained examples, it appears that JW's "official" and "current" understanding of the term "generation", as used in Jesus's end-time prophecy, differs from the more common understanding of this (English) word held in general (reflected in a number of postings presented here). In terms of it's use by sociologists and historians, (with whom the word apparently has greater currency), there is a departure from more usual application, but the understanding is not unique. The pith of this matter is, of course, what did Jesus specifically mean when he used the term? The honest answer to this? We do not specifically know. We can only infer.
  23. Evacuated
    I don't need to prove a conclusion on the meaning of a word in current usage. I just observe the facts. My reference was to an earlier observation of the same thing, not offered as proof for a stand alone fact. Ungracious assumption. I can see...you have indeed been damaged.
  24. Evacuated
    Don't patronise. It's a sure way of closing doors. I shouldn't have to tell you that. (There you go!) Good that you appreciate the need to keep a confidence. There's no need to elaborate. Abstract discussions are too inconclusive on this kind of thing so I'll move on from this subject.
  25. Evacuated
    So to prevent losing the thread, how was I in danger of begging the question?
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