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Evacuated

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  1. Like
    Evacuated reacted to JayDubya in Man sentenced to 60 years to life for sexually assaulting three young girls he met through church   
    Good. I'm glad they are being exposed and families are being empowered to speak up and speak out.  I'm glad persons who commit these types of crimes are reaping what they have sown.  No longer will the KH be used as a hiding place for pedophiles.   
    I hope healing takes place rapidly and thoroughly for all involved.  
     
  2. Like
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in What gives them the right to insert YHWH so that the the scriptures are manipulated to suit the their doctrine?   
    Assuming I understand this question because it is a little confusing.
    If you mean evidence of the divine name dating prior to extant manuscripts for the New Testament, then it is so abundant and in the public domain it is not worth reproducing here.
    If you mean manuscripts of the New Testament earlier than what is extant, then I do not know how this could be possible, and the only answer is: as soon as they are found.
  3. Like
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    It might seem a bit of a nit-picking excercise, which is what often comes into my mind when the term "semantics" is applied in a discussion.
    However, in view of the crucial importance of understanding who Jesus is, and the determined and sustained efforts to distort the scriptural truths, I believe it is necessary to set out definitions as precisely as possible. In this case, the development of understanding relating to Jesus role and nature in Scripture has to be something that takes place in the mind of the enquirer as they discern what the Scripture actually says about him. This may require the de-construction and replacement of mistaken ideas, and also, more importantly, as stated by Jesus himself, involves the operation of God's Holy Spirit. Matt.16:13-17.
    I suppose one way to illustrate this is to think of shining a light into a dark place. The illumination enables the mind to discern and make sense of what is there already.
    What must NOT happen in this development is for someone to take concepts from Scripture, and then construct something over, above, and beyond what was originally written, as if the Scripture provided basic elements or building blocks that would then need elaboration and development in order to be understood. This for me is what has taken place since the Scriptures were completed, resulting in the development of concept and vocabulary that bears no relation to what was originally written. Not least in respect of the Trinity doctrine. As Cos pointed out earlier, "the uses of most of the terms were to fend off attacks by those that opposed the Trinity".
    Necessarily, I would exclude the understanding of some Messianic prophecy from this definition, particularly when fulfillment is not recorded in Scripture. The actual fulfillment of prophesied, future events will always add to the understanding of a prophecy, once realised. 
     
  4. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from bruceq in What gives them the right to insert YHWH so that the the scriptures are manipulated to suit the their doctrine?   
    Assuming I understand this question because it is a little confusing.
    If you mean evidence of the divine name dating prior to extant manuscripts for the New Testament, then it is so abundant and in the public domain it is not worth reproducing here.
    If you mean manuscripts of the New Testament earlier than what is extant, then I do not know how this could be possible, and the only answer is: as soon as they are found.
  5. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in Are JWs able to predict future events?   
    I think this has been discussed elsewhere but anyway, to repeat, the role of a prophet along with their prophesying served more in ancient times than to provide messages from Jehovah in the form of statements in advance of his intentions or requirements.
    True prophets also stood as rallying points for Jehovah's worship as currently practiced and all that included, in the face of trends to dilute, pollute, or abandon true worship.
    In that way the prophet-like comparison can still be made. With the Scripture complete and available for the present, there is no need for "prophets" serving in the manner of ancient times, or for that matter in the way of those in the 1st Century with the gift of prophecy. (1Cor 13:8). However, the Governing Body serves in a prophet-like role in upholding Jehovah's standards and in proclaimimg his revealed will and judgements in the midst of an ungodly world. How far that analogy can be extended to include those who support them in that God-assigned activity is a matter for future discussion.
  6. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in Are JWs able to predict future events?   
    As an example to affirm what I mean by the application of the term prediction according to the common definition as discussed above, there is a reference in the Feb 15 1943 Watchtower, p63-4. Quoting from Bro.N.Knorr's opening address to the first class of the Watchtower Bible (then called) College of Gilead, the following was said:
    "There are many places where the witness concerning the Kingdom has not been given to a great extent. The people living in these places are in darkness, held there by religion. In some of these countries, where there are a few witnesses, it is noted that the people of good-will hear readily and would associate themselves with the Lord’s organization, if instructed properly. There must be hundreds and thousands more that could be reached if there were more laborers in the field. By the Lord’s grace, there will be more......................We believe that, true to it's name,a "heap of wltness" will go forth from this place to all parts of the world and that such witness will stand as a monument to the glory of God and that can never be destroyed."
    Bro Knorr's use of the expression "hundreds and thousands" might be seized upon by critics as a gross underestimate of the effect of the Gilead missionary program over the years, but it has to be taken in context. This rather archaic idiom,used today mainly for cake decoration, was seemingly of more common usage in the 19th and the earlier part of the 20th Centuries, and would be entirely appropriate to Bro Knorr's vocabulary, (b.1905) and aged about 37 when delivering this discourse. It simply means: "an indefinite but emphatically large number". This is quite in harmony with the idea of an "estimate" or "prediction" being "a rough calculation".
    So, if one considers the facts. At the time of the first Gilead missionary class, there was a war raging across much of the world. Despite this 109,794 were able to report their field service. These included the 100 initial students of the Gilead College, now graduated and in the field. Compare the number of publishers for 1943 to the most recent world figure of average number of publishers for 2016 - 8,132,358. More interestingly, 260 publishers were reporting field service from 22 congregations located in a number of countries reporting directly to the US Branch in Brooklyn in 1943. The number of publishers in those same countries combined in 2016 was at least 467,000 reporting on average.
    Just one more example is Japan. When, in 1951, 40 Gilead missionaries and 200 local publishers attended a convention in Tokyo, Bro Knorr then said that he looked forward to the time when there would be so many native Japanese proclaimers of the Kingdom that it would be hard to search out the missionaries among them. The last count in Japan of the averagie of those publishing in 2016 was 213,818 .
    Even without an exhaustive analysis on these figures, it is patently clear to me that the expectation of increase in those responding to the Kingdom message as expressed by Bro.Knorr in representing the Governing Body, adequately fits the definition of the word "predict" and has, unmistakably, been fulfilled.
  7. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    It might seem a bit of a nit-picking excercise, which is what often comes into my mind when the term "semantics" is applied in a discussion.
    However, in view of the crucial importance of understanding who Jesus is, and the determined and sustained efforts to distort the scriptural truths, I believe it is necessary to set out definitions as precisely as possible. In this case, the development of understanding relating to Jesus role and nature in Scripture has to be something that takes place in the mind of the enquirer as they discern what the Scripture actually says about him. This may require the de-construction and replacement of mistaken ideas, and also, more importantly, as stated by Jesus himself, involves the operation of God's Holy Spirit. Matt.16:13-17.
    I suppose one way to illustrate this is to think of shining a light into a dark place. The illumination enables the mind to discern and make sense of what is there already.
    What must NOT happen in this development is for someone to take concepts from Scripture, and then construct something over, above, and beyond what was originally written, as if the Scripture provided basic elements or building blocks that would then need elaboration and development in order to be understood. This for me is what has taken place since the Scriptures were completed, resulting in the development of concept and vocabulary that bears no relation to what was originally written. Not least in respect of the Trinity doctrine. As Cos pointed out earlier, "the uses of most of the terms were to fend off attacks by those that opposed the Trinity".
    Necessarily, I would exclude the understanding of some Messianic prophecy from this definition, particularly when fulfillment is not recorded in Scripture. The actual fulfillment of prophesied, future events will always add to the understanding of a prophecy, once realised. 
     
  8. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    OK. Then it appears from the cited scriptures (and admittedly above) that the term is NOT applied exclusively to one's relationship with (the) God. (That is, the true God, Jehovah).
    So is the word which on occasion is translated as "worship" always rendered so?
    Well it appears so in the King James version. BUT given that, it's use at Matt.18:26 alerts me to the fact that what is meant here cannot be taken at face value. The act of the servant described in this illustration does not have the same motivation as that which Satan the Devil sought from Jesus at Matt 4:9.
    Also, what does the word mean in English. (And not just the generally accepted meaning).
    This is interesting. Apart from the obvious,
    The Cambridge Dictionary: to love, respect, and admire someone or something very much
    Synonyms are listed as: reverence, revering, worshipping, veneration, venerating, adoration, adoring, -olatry,  devotion, praise, thanksgiving, praising, praying to, glorification, glorifying, glory, exaltation, exalting, extolment, extolling,  homage, respect, honour, honouring, esteem;
    And googling the etymology gives us this: Old English weorthscipe ‘worthiness, acknowledgement of worth’
    So altogether, it appears the word "worship" in English does not have so precise a meaning as to be limited to a religious act or attitude, and therefore it's meaning seems related to the use of the word in context.
    When factoring in other associated words such as latreuo, which does have a rather exclusive application at Matt.4:10 (sacred service NWT), I am inclined to agree with the statement in Insight on The Scriptures Vol 2 under "Worship": 
    "Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than worship. However, the context determines in what way the respective words are to be understood."
    On that basis, it appears (in my opinion, of course) that the question sequence cited above, albeit "a simple example Trinitarians often beat JWs over the head with" is overly simplistic and, in fact, irrelevant given a wider understanding of the word "worship".
  9. Like
    Evacuated got a reaction from pactoo in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    Oh you misunderstand (again). Sorry for not making myself clear. I was not taught what the Trinity is as a Roman Catholic. It was dictated to me, in the worst possible sense of that word. I was given tractates, such as the portion of the Athanasian creed I posted earlier, and told to memorise and recite them on pain of detention or even corporal punishment. In fact, writing out the Creed in full numerous times was itself utilised on occasion as a punishment!
    It wasn't possible to be taught what it was describing, because no one seemed to know what it was.  Admittedly (by proponents), this is a difficult but fundamental concept within Christianity, and also is, historically, a controversial doctrine. I was puzzled by the fact that non-acceptance of the teaching seemed to incite a violent reaction in those who professed belief in it. However, I found out fairly early on that many Christians admit they don't understand it, many more Christians don't understand it but think they do, and in fact, although they'd be horrified to hear it, many Christians sometimes behave as if they believe in three Gods and at other times as if they believe in one.
    Given that, it is little wonder that no one was able to actually teach the Trinity as such. Of course when I came across statements asserting that the Trinity, for example, "reveals that God can be seen only as a spiritual experience whose mystery inspires awe and cannot be understood logically", I knew I was on a loser. However, I felt reassured when I found out that what I felt was unintelligible gobbledegook actually appeared so to others, so my intelligence was not at fault, neither was I alone in that view. 
    So I hope that clears up any misunderstanding about whether I was actually taught the Trinity while being raised Roman Catholic…
    A difficult but fundamental concept within Christianity 
  10. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    Quite true (although the grammar needs adjustment) .
    And you don't even have to get that complicated. Gen.2:24 describes the closest human relationship between two persons possible saying "they will become one flesh",  but surely, no one understands this as meaning they will become one person.....or do they???
  11. Like
    Evacuated got a reaction from Micah Ong in Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in Jesus? Yes!   
    True. And many of those have grown up in JW families. Or have brought their wealth, education and position with them. This puts the lie to the claim that JW's experience "total control" or are in some way deprived of education and opportunity etc. But...Did you miss the point of Paul's counsel?
    Well I thought you would know better than that too. Why should other's suffering be a source of amusement?
    And the majority (alive in 1968) were likely alive when Armageddon DID NOT break out as some expected....many probably still alive today.
    The important thing is to be alive AFTER Armageddon has been accomplished is it not? And as no man knows the day and hour of that event..then it is no crime to strive to be ready for it surely? Peter advised us to "look forward to the day of God and speed (hasten) its coming." (2Pet.3:12) And therefore to "make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him."(2Pet.3:14). NIV quotes.
    Now certainly, and in harmony with the original post, our correct estimation of and appreciation of the role Jesus Christ plays in our salvation is of paramount importance here. So, in answer to the question raised "Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in Jesus?"  A resounding "Yes!"
  12. Like
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in Jesus? Yes!   
    To who?  John Fox? Russell Warren? Micah Ong? ........... 
    But .....who is inviting them? Who is selecting them? Who is assisting them in their earthy course? Who is blessing their activity in harmony with His will? Who is the Head of their congregation? Who is judging them to be faithful? Who resurrrects them to heavenly life? Who reveals their actual number? Who stands with them in vision when the number is revealed? Whose names are written on their foreheads at that time?
    Well, I don't see the names John Fox, Russell Warren, Micah Ong, or indeed any other human name figuring in the answers to the questions above so...............adding up the numbers is best  left to those qualified to do so.
  13. Like
    Evacuated reacted to Queen Esther in Kiwi fruit   
    https://www.facebook.com/medicalmedium/?fref=nf&pnref=story
    Many  many  healthy recipes,  photos  and  tips  on  this  FB - site !!
    I  soon  will  post  more...
  14. Like
    Evacuated got a reaction from Queen Esther in Kiwi fruit   
    Can you post the source of your information please. Thanks.
  15. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from bruceq in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    No one is disputing Jesus' divine nature. Compare (1Pet.1:4). Nevertheless, what is "begot" is most definitely,............... "begun".
  16. Like
    Evacuated reacted to Queen Esther in Plymouth / Devon UK. The town's coat of arms over the portal of the town hall of Plymouth is to this day the only city in the world, whose town crest contains the divine name Jehovah.   
    Plymouth / Devon UK. The town's coat of arms over the portal of the town hall of Plymouth is to this day the only city in the world, whose town crest contains the divine name Jehovah. The inscription of the coat of arms is: TURRIS FORTISSIMA EST NOMEN JEHOVA These are the words from the Bible Book of Proverbs chapter 18 verse 10a: "The name of Jehovah is a strong tower" The selection of this verse as a city motto fell in the time of the English Civil War 1642 to 1646 Plymouth was conquering by the royal troops for two years. When the city was on the brink of conquest, it was a natural wonder that helped the defenders. An unprecedented flood caused the water level in a shifted river arm of the Plym to rise so that an allied ship could hit the enemy into flight. This miracle of nature was seen as an act of rescue of Jehovah, to which help had also been sought. Out of gratitude the Bible verse from  Prov. 18.10,  was inserted into the STADT-WAPPEN.....
    ( translated  by  google )
  17. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in ORIGINAL SONGS | I Keep Your Reminders   
    By word and deed, let us prove that we really love Jehovah’s reminders.
    Source
  18. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Bible Speaks in EARTHQUAKES ?????   
    http://ds.iris.edu/seismon/?view=eveday
    Monitor Everyday throughout the Earth!
    ?????
  19. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in MOSCOW – Tens of thousands of protesters have thronged Moscow this weekend to protest against a ban of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the country.   
    All depends on who is shepherding according to Ezekiel 34:1-6
    "The word of Jehovah again came to me, saying:
    2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and say to the shepherds, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who have been feeding themselves! Is it not the flock that the shepherds should feed?
    3 You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, and you slaughter the fattest animal, but you do not feed the flock.
    4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny.
    5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field.
    6 My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them. "
    Why not read on..............
  20. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Panda in MOSCOW – Tens of thousands of protesters have thronged Moscow this weekend to protest against a ban of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the country.   
    Another fake story.  Ab.cnewsgo.com is not a legitimate news webpage.
  21. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in Should we respect religious beliefs of others?   
    We respect those who have religious beliefs. The beliefs themselves may have to earn respect.
  22. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in Should we respect religious beliefs of others?   
    We respect those who have religious beliefs. The beliefs themselves may have to earn respect.
  23. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from ARchiv@L in JW Broadcasting—May 2017   
    Did you look at the Bible he uses?
  24. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in Early Christians Believed in the Trinity   
    Very interesting and thorough analysis and I agree with the substance of the argument. Did you have this already prepared? Thanks for putting it together anyway.
    The only issue for me is that there is a potential for a confused implication that Arianism predates Arius and that it is somehow reflected in John's gospel. There has to be a better way of expressing this. I wouldn't want to give the impression that the understanding of Jesus role and nature is an idea developed from Scripture. For me, it is a truth presented clearly in Scripture when originally written, but subsequently obscured and buried by apostate teachers, with attempts by some, such as Arius, to restore the suspected original over the years with varying degrees of success, in the face of continued opposition.
    It is rather in the way an old master's work (say a portrait of his son) may have been painted over by later artists, obscuring the original from view with many layers of paint and later appearing as something sub-standard and very different from the original.
    "Experts" may have attempted to clear from the original portrait the obstruction, layers, and tarnish with  partial success over the years, and may indeed manage on occasion to enable a glimpse of aspects of the original work beneath what is currently viewed.
    This to me illustrates how teachers may have tried to remove layers of false doctorine obscuring Bible truth.
    Arius appears to me to be one who has made such an attempt with partial success. But his view is only of his time. He was only revealing (partially) something which was already there, and to associate his name with the original teaching inappropriately is to do injustice to the Master.
  25. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Ann O'Maly in Former WA Jehovah Witness charged with alleged historic child abuse offences   
    There will likely be more prosecutions in the aftermath of the ARC, @Barbara Snook. This is a good thing. This former JW may have been targeting 'worldly' children since he left the Org. Other unreported molesters may still be active members of congregations. Former JW or current JW, what has been hidden is coming to light and, if convicted, the community should be that little bit safer.
    Also, if you really don't like these kinds of news stories - and the thread title was sufficiently clear on what it was about - then choose not to read them! 
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