Evacuated

Interesting discussion. Something which came to mind for me reading this.
We obviously cannot be any more certain of Isaac's age than the suggestion in the Insight book. The term "At any rate" is often used to modify the preceding statement in a sentence. In this case, the defining of a specific age for Isaac in Jewish tradition being speculative, the writer prefers reasoning on the task Isaac is carrying out as a preferable indicator of his age. In view of the comparison with Jesus, I would feel a need to place Isaac toward the upper end of the age spectrum here. However, that would be a personal judgement.
Another interesting question for me relating to the demonstration of faith here would be in connection with Abraham's statement that "God himself will provide the sheep". Was Abraham using a  strategy as a consideration for Isaac's inadequate faith? Or was it a prophetic utterence, regarding the yet to be clarified ransom provision? After all, even the High Priest Caiaphas prophesied regarding the ransom without understanding the significance of his words (Jo 11:49-52). 

Which one was this?
They can indeed.......and do extensively. But there is a gentle reminder at Proverbs 27:2......
"Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth; Others, and not your own lips."
 

Interesting discussion. Something which came to mind for me reading this.
We obviously cannot be any more certain of Isaac's age than the suggestion in the Insight book. The term "At any rate" is often used to modify the preceding statement in a sentence. In this case, the defining of a specific age for Isaac in Jewish tradition being speculative, the writer prefers reasoning on the task Isaac is carrying out as a preferable indicator of his age. In view of the comparison with Jesus, I would feel a need to place Isaac toward the upper end of the age spectrum here. However, that would be a personal judgement.
Another interesting question for me relating to the demonstration of faith here would be in connection with Abraham's statement that "God himself will provide the sheep". Was Abraham using a  strategy as a consideration for Isaac's inadequate faith? Or was it a prophetic utterence, regarding the yet to be clarified ransom provision? After all, even the High Priest Caiaphas prophesied regarding the ransom without understanding the significance of his words (Jo 11:49-52). 

I have just come home from a delayed, video Special Meeting, that was from the Australasian Branch, Bethel in Sydney, it was very upbuilding and faith strengthening. The Special Talk was given by Brother Patrick LaFranca, an assistant to the GB. Towards the end of his talk, which happened to be "All Things are Possible with God"........he spoke of our brothers in Russia, a number of key points that I noted were:
1. This should come as no surprise to us, (John 15:19) If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. He then used (1 Peter 4:12-14)  Beloved ones, do not be surprised about the fiery trials that you are experiencing, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 On the contrary, go on rejoicing over the extent to which you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, so that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory. 14 If you are being reproached for the name of Christ, you are happy, because the spirit of glory, yes, the spirit of God, is resting upon you.
2. Our Brothers in Russia are joyful and are enduring and they will keep on preaching the Good News of God's Kingdom, irrespective of the outcome. (1 Thessalonians 2:2) 2 For although we had first suffered and been insolently treated in Phi·lipʹpi, as you know, we mustered up boldness by means of our God to tell you the good news of God in the face of much opposition. 
 
3. There are positive reports in the media, including many in the Russian media, and the world is taking notice of the unity of Jehovah's Witnesses..........the Brother pointed out that this is a miracle..........that the world could not do it.......BUT, as the title of the talk said "All things are possible with God" (Revelation 14:6, 7) . . .And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.”
 I think that Brother LaFranca's words are a true source of encouragement for all of us.
 

Phew!!!
Emotions understandably are running high over the issues faced by our dear brothers in Russia. Our sense of justice is outraged by the treatment meted out to our brothers, especially when we see videos like above. Let's not forget that the roaring of the lion (1Pet.5:8) is aimed to frighten and confuse the sheep. The last thing we want is to be bickering with each other over how to best support our brothers at this time. Recognise that oppression can drive even the wise one into madness (Ecc.7:7).
We can be sure that the Head of the congregation, Jesus, is as well aware of what is happening to our brothers now as he was in the 1st Century in connection with the congregation in Smyrna (Rev.2:8-11).
We have been provided with our current publicity strategy by the Governing Body, and are yet to see the impact of this. Additional action has been taken under theocratic direction as reported on https://jw-russia.org/news on 31/3/2017. The Society has posted videos and news reports on oppressive action both recently and in the past on jw.org, even naming brothers where appropiate.
As for sympathisers (either Witnesses or non-witnesses) posting videos and information under their own authorisation, this is a matter for them and their own consciences. It would hardly be appropriate for we, who demand freedom of expression for ourselves especially in religious matters, to restrict that right for others. However, with every excercise of freedom there is a price to be paid and a consideration on how our actions effect others.
In fairness to @Lussier Denis, the campaign instructions do contain the request: "Do not mention the names of individuals in Russia who are Jehovah’s Witnesses.". We need to apply the words of Proverbs 20:1 here: "by skillful direction wage your war", and for Jehovah's Witnesses, that skillful direction will come from the Head of the Congregation, Jesus Christ, and through the instructions given by the Governing Body and it is through following these that victory will come. It will not come through individually initiated skirmishing, independent of that "skilfull direction" and the inevitable disunity such action brings.

Phew!!!
Emotions understandably are running high over the issues faced by our dear brothers in Russia. Our sense of justice is outraged by the treatment meted out to our brothers, especially when we see videos like above. Let's not forget that the roaring of the lion (1Pet.5:8) is aimed to frighten and confuse the sheep. The last thing we want is to be bickering with each other over how to best support our brothers at this time. Recognise that oppression can drive even the wise one into madness (Ecc.7:7).
We can be sure that the Head of the congregation, Jesus, is as well aware of what is happening to our brothers now as he was in the 1st Century in connection with the congregation in Smyrna (Rev.2:8-11).
We have been provided with our current publicity strategy by the Governing Body, and are yet to see the impact of this. Additional action has been taken under theocratic direction as reported on https://jw-russia.org/news on 31/3/2017. The Society has posted videos and news reports on oppressive action both recently and in the past on jw.org, even naming brothers where appropiate.
As for sympathisers (either Witnesses or non-witnesses) posting videos and information under their own authorisation, this is a matter for them and their own consciences. It would hardly be appropriate for we, who demand freedom of expression for ourselves especially in religious matters, to restrict that right for others. However, with every excercise of freedom there is a price to be paid and a consideration on how our actions effect others.
In fairness to @Lussier Denis, the campaign instructions do contain the request: "Do not mention the names of individuals in Russia who are Jehovah’s Witnesses.". We need to apply the words of Proverbs 20:1 here: "by skillful direction wage your war", and for Jehovah's Witnesses, that skillful direction will come from the Head of the Congregation, Jesus Christ, and through the instructions given by the Governing Body and it is through following these that victory will come. It will not come through individually initiated skirmishing, independent of that "skilfull direction" and the inevitable disunity such action brings.

Phew!!!
Emotions understandably are running high over the issues faced by our dear brothers in Russia. Our sense of justice is outraged by the treatment meted out to our brothers, especially when we see videos like above. Let's not forget that the roaring of the lion (1Pet.5:8) is aimed to frighten and confuse the sheep. The last thing we want is to be bickering with each other over how to best support our brothers at this time. Recognise that oppression can drive even the wise one into madness (Ecc.7:7).
We can be sure that the Head of the congregation, Jesus, is as well aware of what is happening to our brothers now as he was in the 1st Century in connection with the congregation in Smyrna (Rev.2:8-11).
We have been provided with our current publicity strategy by the Governing Body, and are yet to see the impact of this. Additional action has been taken under theocratic direction as reported on https://jw-russia.org/news on 31/3/2017. The Society has posted videos and news reports on oppressive action both recently and in the past on jw.org, even naming brothers where appropiate.
As for sympathisers (either Witnesses or non-witnesses) posting videos and information under their own authorisation, this is a matter for them and their own consciences. It would hardly be appropriate for we, who demand freedom of expression for ourselves especially in religious matters, to restrict that right for others. However, with every excercise of freedom there is a price to be paid and a consideration on how our actions effect others.
In fairness to @Lussier Denis, the campaign instructions do contain the request: "Do not mention the names of individuals in Russia who are Jehovah’s Witnesses.". We need to apply the words of Proverbs 20:1 here: "by skillful direction wage your war", and for Jehovah's Witnesses, that skillful direction will come from the Head of the Congregation, Jesus Christ, and through the instructions given by the Governing Body and it is through following these that victory will come. It will not come through individually initiated skirmishing, independent of that "skilfull direction" and the inevitable disunity such action brings.

The following op-ed appeared in The Moscow Times on July 26, 2015
How will Europe's human rights court respond to a government that treats a pacifist religious group as a dangerous extremist cell? The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) will answer that question this summer when it rules on whether Russia's prosecution of Jehovah's Witnesses under its extremism law criminalizes freedom of religion or belief.
A ruling against the Kremlin could be a landmark decision for Russia, affecting not only Jehovah's Witnesses. From Muslims to dissenting members of the Moscow Patriarchate Russian Orthodox Church (MPROC), other Russians are also caught in the wide net cast by this overly broad law.
Under the extremism law, religious material is banned throughout Russia once a higher court upholds a lower court ruling that it is "extremist." Convicted individuals face up to four years in prison. As of this June, Russia's list of banned materials reached 2,859 items, having started in 2007 with 15 items.
The ECHR is reviewing 22 cases of Russian court bans of 72 Jehovah's Witness texts, including a children's book called "My Book of Bible Stories."
Russia enacted its extremism law in 2002, just months after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. Two of the law's provisions defined religious extremism as promoting the "exclusivity, superiority, or lack of equal worth of an individual" and "incitement of religious discord" in connection with acts or threats of violence.
How did these provisions allow Russia to target Jehovah's Witnesses or other peaceful religious minorities?
MY THOUGHT : 10  “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11  You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements.*+ I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.” 12  It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited+and a people regathered from the nations,+ who are accumulating wealth and property,+ those who are living in the center of the earth. EZEKIEL 38.

This rumour of GB morning worship instruction is passing round everywhere.
This is just like the emails pretending to be from banks, phishing for personal details. 
Our Governing Body does not communicate worldwide on serious matters by third party source via email, social media, or any other random channel.
We have our instruction on how to conduct this campaign here: 
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
This is also the source for information on progress with this vital campaign.
ANYTHING else, including the postings on this site, is unauthorised at best. I will leave you to decide what it is at worst. 
Compare the Apostle Paul's words at 2 Thess 2:1-2 where he says
"we ask you  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us"
 
 
 
 
 

This rumour of GB morning worship instruction is passing round everywhere.
This is just like the emails pretending to be from banks, phishing for personal details. 
Our Governing Body does not communicate worldwide on serious matters by third party source via email, social media, or any other random channel.
We have our instruction on how to conduct this campaign here: 
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
This is also the source for information on progress with this vital campaign.
ANYTHING else, including the postings on this site, is unauthorised at best. I will leave you to decide what it is at worst. 
Compare the Apostle Paul's words at 2 Thess 2:1-2 where he says
"we ask you  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us"
 
 
 
 
 

This rumour of GB morning worship instruction is passing round everywhere.
This is just like the emails pretending to be from banks, phishing for personal details. 
Our Governing Body does not communicate worldwide on serious matters by third party source via email, social media, or any other random channel.
We have our instruction on how to conduct this campaign here: 
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
This is also the source for information on progress with this vital campaign.
ANYTHING else, including the postings on this site, is unauthorised at best. I will leave you to decide what it is at worst. 
Compare the Apostle Paul's words at 2 Thess 2:1-2 where he says
"we ask you  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us"
 
 
 
 
 

This rumour of GB morning worship instruction is passing round everywhere.
This is just like the emails pretending to be from banks, phishing for personal details. 
Our Governing Body does not communicate worldwide on serious matters by third party source via email, social media, or any other random channel.
We have our instruction on how to conduct this campaign here: 
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
This is also the source for information on progress with this vital campaign.
ANYTHING else, including the postings on this site, is unauthorised at best. I will leave you to decide what it is at worst. 
Compare the Apostle Paul's words at 2 Thess 2:1-2 where he says
"we ask you  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us"
 
 
 
 
 

This rumour of GB morning worship instruction is passing round everywhere.
This is just like the emails pretending to be from banks, phishing for personal details. 
Our Governing Body does not communicate worldwide on serious matters by third party source via email, social media, or any other random channel.
We have our instruction on how to conduct this campaign here: 
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
This is also the source for information on progress with this vital campaign.
ANYTHING else, including the postings on this site, is unauthorised at best. I will leave you to decide what it is at worst. 
Compare the Apostle Paul's words at 2 Thess 2:1-2 where he says
"we ask you  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us"
 
 
 
 
 

This rumour of GB morning worship instruction is passing round everywhere.
This is just like the emails pretending to be from banks, phishing for personal details. 
Our Governing Body does not communicate worldwide on serious matters by third party source via email, social media, or any other random channel.
We have our instruction on how to conduct this campaign here: 
https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/
This is also the source for information on progress with this vital campaign.
ANYTHING else, including the postings on this site, is unauthorised at best. I will leave you to decide what it is at worst. 
Compare the Apostle Paul's words at 2 Thess 2:1-2 where he says
"we ask you  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us"
 
 
 
 
 

The horrible expression "brown nose" is reserved for those who are described as "obsequious". Equally horrible, that word is defined in part as servile, ingratiating, unctuous, sycophantic, fawning. I agree that we do not have to demonstrate that level of behaviour in dealing with political leaders, Russian or otherwise.
But we are advised by the apostles (who had dealings with men alongside whom Russian politicians wilt) to show respect for those who currently excercise power. With the example of Saul, later Paul, we can appreciate the Bible's counsel to avoid judging others.
Not a suitable subject for a letter to the Russian authorities regarding our brothers, BUT...................
It puts me in mind of what occurred in Nazi Germany. I believe officers in prison camps would allow Jehovah's Witness prisoners to wet shave them....because they knew they could trust the brothers not to harm them, such was the brothers respect for Jehovah's requirements at that time.  Well, can you imagine any "Guatanamo Bay" type military officer  allowing an ISIS militant to shave them with a cut-throat razor today without at least a qualm of misgiving????     Who really are the extremists?

Still don't believe Coco Rocha is the girl on the cart.

Interesting tidbit I came across today.

Did you know that this guy, "Vladimir Lukin" who was for many years the Ombusdman for the Russian Federation and has spoken out many times on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses (and others) that are being railroaded in the country...
will be at GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY - tomorrow March 24th!
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/conference-25-years-of-us-russia-relations-tickets-32660588700
Read a little about him (Search his name on the page / some references maybe for some letter writing?):
http://russiancouncil.ru/en/author_profile/index.php?author_id_4=156 https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2009/eur/136054.htm http://eng.yabloko.ru/People/Luk/lukin1.html#4 https://wwrn.org/articles/33853/ http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=1415 http://tinyurl.com/l6wdu45 http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/160309a.html Interesting, don't you think?

The horrible expression "brown nose" is reserved for those who are described as "obsequious". Equally horrible, that word is defined in part as servile, ingratiating, unctuous, sycophantic, fawning. I agree that we do not have to demonstrate that level of behaviour in dealing with political leaders, Russian or otherwise.
But we are advised by the apostles (who had dealings with men alongside whom Russian politicians wilt) to show respect for those who currently excercise power. With the example of Saul, later Paul, we can appreciate the Bible's counsel to avoid judging others.
Not a suitable subject for a letter to the Russian authorities regarding our brothers, BUT...................
It puts me in mind of what occurred in Nazi Germany. I believe officers in prison camps would allow Jehovah's Witness prisoners to wet shave them....because they knew they could trust the brothers not to harm them, such was the brothers respect for Jehovah's requirements at that time.  Well, can you imagine any "Guatanamo Bay" type military officer  allowing an ISIS militant to shave them with a cut-throat razor today without at least a qualm of misgiving????     Who really are the extremists?

Why do people keep abdicating responsibility for their own decisions? 
Probably needs a new thread on this one. 

Depends. Maybe it was important to Jehovah. Anyway, at the moment you are right in saying 
but we will know for sure in the resurrection won't we?

Wish I could speak Spanish as I cannot really fathom the Google translate (?) version. I am sure we will get the full, lurid details and more soon if there is any truth in the matter.

Wish I could speak Spanish as I cannot really fathom the Google translate (?) version. I am sure we will get the full, lurid details and more soon if there is any truth in the matter.

There is no precise way yet to conclusively determine what was actually in Paul's mind in his use of Deut.21:22-23 relating to instrument used in Jesus murder. The analysis in the posting is interesting, and I particularly like the connection with the account regarding Haman's experience in the book of Esther.
If anything, the information presented persuades me more to the single stake view, particularly when I consider the active interest Jehovah must have taken in all the events surrounding the sacrificial death of His son Jesus. The idea (if true) that the word for stake had slipped in meaning due to custom and practice of the time, and that this would render a single pole method of execution as unusual (although not impossible), rather piques my interest. If anything, it would certainly have drawn even more attention to the event at the time, even if the detail is not specifically recorded in any extant source. I am also inclined to think that an ancient definition of the word would be more appropriate in view of Paul's reference to Deuteronomy.
However, we just cannot be sure, and for that reason I am happy to accept for now the current view we as Jehovahs Witnesses hold "the Bible does not describe the instrument of Jesus’ death, so no one can know its shape with absolute certainty."  https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/did-jesus-die-on-cross/
Of course, the matter will be clarified in the future, but it is obviously more important for us now to focus on the meaning, rather than the implement, of Jesus' death.  

I think the best way to address it is to look carefully at the word used for "stake" and see how else it gets used in the Bible. This is mostly from the NWT Appendix 5C:
Of course, Paul is quoting from Deut 21:22,23 which says:
(Deuteronomy 21:22, 23) 22 “And in case there comes to be in a man a sin deserving the sentence of death, and he has been put to death, and you have hung him upon a stake*, [*footnote: tree, wood] . . . something accursed of God is the one hung up; - NWT
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word translated "stake" is used about 328 times, and over 300 of those times it can be correctly translated as "tree" or "wood" or (when plural) "trees" or "timber" So it could easily mean "tree" in this case.
(Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, KJV) And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
But in the few times when it can be translated as something else, it clearly means wooden things like stick, branch, staff, gallows, plank. In the context of hanging someone up, "stake" does not always appear to be the most appropriate, but it's still possible. In the context of hanging from it, we have a description of Haman and Mordecai's gallows:
(Esther 7:9, 10) . . .“Haʹman also prepared a stake for Morʹde·cai, whose report saved the king. It is standing at Haʹman’s house, 50 cubits high.” At that the king said: “Hang him on it.” 10 So they hanged Haʹman on the stake that he had prepared for Morʹde·cai, and the king’s rage subsided. - NWT
(Esther 6:4) . . .having Morʹde·cai hanged on the stake that he had prepared for him. - NWT
A 75-foot high "gallows" sounds like more than a single, simple stake, and the Hebrew gives a sense that it was prepared, (produced, worked on, fashioned, wrought) not merely "put up."
(Esther 7:9, ESV)Then Harbona, one of the eunuchs in attendance on the king, said, “Moreover, the gallows that Haman has prepared for Mordecai, whose word saved the king, is standing at Haman’s house, fifty cubits high.”
But here below we have what is apparently a single beam, probably from a vertical beam from 8 to 12 feet in height.
(Ezra 6:11) And by me an order has been put through that, as for anybody that violates this decree, a timber will be pulled out of his house and he will be impaled upon it, and his house will be turned into a public privy on this account. - NWT
The Greek word for all these Hebrew items in the LXX is 'xylon' and it's, of course, the word Paul uses in Galatians 3:13. And here again, it is can be translated "tree" or "wood" in most other places in the Greek. 13 of 19 times.
(Acts 13:29) And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree,and laid him in a sepulchre. - KJV
(Gal 3:13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree - KJV
 
(Revelation 2:7) 7 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’ - NWT
But it can even be the word for stocks:
(Acts 16:24) . . .Because he got such an order, he threw them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks.
For what it's worth, my take on this is that there is such a wide range of possibility, that this is just more evidence that it didn't really matter what the instrument looked like exactly, and there was definitely no specific description that we could or should "draw" from to create an important symbol.
The description of how words like stauros were used is also informative in that in earlier Greek, it seems to refer more often to a simple stake, as it was used especially by Greek writers hundreds of years before the Bible was written in Greek. But as the world got more acquainted with the Roman form of "crucifixion" the word tends to connote an upright pole and crossbeam. But we have seen that this is only suggestive of a more likely form used in Jesus' day, nothing definitive.
I like what Allen included that showed that the standard upright and crossbeam form was more popular and the quote from Seneca and Josephus, below, because it implies a wide variety of postures which are much more likely if the crossbeam were employed:
'So the soldiers, out of the rage and hatred they bore the prisoners, nailed those they caught, in different postures, to the crosses, by way of jest
Much of the book Allen quoted from is available on Google.  https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1451414196
Crucifixion: In The Ancient World And The Folly Of The Message Of The Cross (Facets)
by Martin Hengel and John Bowden
I am glad Allen quoted from it and brought it to our attention. It seems to be an excellent source, and it also speaks to the wide variety that keeps us from saying anything dogmatic or definitive.