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Evacuated

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  1. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Not really going for the "picture" approach.  It's just too rigid a framework for me.
    What I am saying is that, regardless of human opinion (and there is no shortage of that), Jehovah (through Jesus of course as the Head of the Congregation) has seen fit to provide a shepherding arrangement for those who wish to serve Him in these last days. This appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" is a principal aspect of this shepherding arrangement. And He will ensure that, despite human imperfection and/or human error on the part of that "slave", no lasting detriment will come to those who work within HIS arrangement. He allows humans to "work out their own salvation" on the basis of his word AND the application provided by the slave for the most part, only intervening or "directing" by means of His spirit when absolutely necessary.
    However, it will not go well for those who choose to disrespect Jehovah's arrangement or way of doing things and that includes their attitude to those whom Jehovah assigns shepherding responsibility. He counts that as personal disrespect regardless of the undermining effect such disrespect might have on the trust of others. 
    There are lessons we can draw from the series of incidents recorded in the account in Numbers 16. This is because of similarities we can see when comparing the situation then with now. The appropriate lessons relate to the position we take. which is why I say "if the cap fits".....
     
  2. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err? This is the question here.
    As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired. This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress.
    In the past, Paul wrote more letters than those collected in the Bible canon as "inspired". References are made elsewhere in the inspired scriptures to "other" writings which are not inspired such as those utilised by Ezra and by Moses (in the compilation of Genesis). Even the quotations from the Septuagint translation (not inspired) become part of the inspired word despite them differing in wording from Hebrew copies. So if this is the case with inspired writings, (that Jehovah choses what He wants to be considered as having been produced under inspiration), then I have no problem with the concept of an information channel being guided or directed (though not inspired) by Him on occasion. Or that information provided by that channel on occasion could be in error.
    I have illustrated this before as the difference between me following directions to drive a car and me being driven by someone else. I might chose a different road from an assigned driver, especially if unfamiliar with the route, but there is no need for intervention if I am heading in the right direction, unless I am going completely off course, e.g. I might take a wrong turning, but as long as I correct myself there is no need for intervention. Let's say my journey is being GPS tracked so my course can be seen at all times. There is no need for intervention unless those tracking feel it is absolutely necessary.
    Sadly, the real rub here is around the fact that the Governing Body has presented themselves as "the faithful and discreet slave", the sole channel for the dispensing of spiritual food in these last days. We all know the account about Korah, Dathan, Abiram and On and the 250 at Numbers 16. So, unfortunately, it is rather a case of "if the cap fits...........".
     
  3. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    What does "Caesar" consider the Org's elders to be?
  4. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    What was an interesting discussion seems to be drifting off topic and deteriorating into a sort of "flaming" excercise.
    When dealing with intentionally provocative postings, Solomon's advice is worth considering before responding.
    "Do not answer the stupid one according to his foolishness, so that you do not put yourself on his level.  Answer the stupid one according to his foolishness, so that he does not think he is wise." Proverbs 26:5-6
  5. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in What is the purest form of Christianity?   
    Question: 
    What is the purest form of Christianity? (@JWInsider) Answer:
    "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." (James 1:27: )
  6. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    Your cited article is excellent. I would struggle to reword Para 15 any more clearly than it already is! 
  7. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    You may be interested in this article as well. In addition to the scripture at Col 1:13, it also uses Ephesians 1:20-22 which shows He "made him the head over all things to the congregation". There is other food for thought in it as well. 
    *** w95 10/15 How Will You Stand Before the Judgment Seat? ***
    Jesus’ Position
    13 Jehovah is both King and Judge. What of Jesus? The angel announcing his birth said: “Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, . . . and there will be no end of his kingdom.” (Luke 1:32, 33) Jesus would be permanent heir of the Davidic kingship. (2 Samuel 7:12-16) He would rule from heaven, for David said: “The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord [Jesus] is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’ The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’”—Psalm 110:1-4.
    14 When would that be? Jesus did not rule as King while a human. (John 18:33-37) In 33 C.E., he died, was resurrected, and ascended to heaven. Hebrews 10:12 says: “This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God.” What authority did Jesus have? “[God] seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and authority and power and lordship . . . and made him head over all things to the congregation.” (Ephesians 1:20-22) Because Jesus then had kingly authority over Christians, Paul could write that Jehovah “delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.”—Colossians 1:13; 3:1.
    15 At that time, however, Jesus did not act as King and Judge over the nations. He was seated next to God, awaiting the time to act as King of God’s Kingdom. Paul wrote of him: “With reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: ‘Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet’?”—Hebrews 1:13.
    16 Jehovah’s Witnesses have published much evidence that Jesus’ period of waiting expired in 1914, when he became ruler of God’s Kingdom in the invisible heavens. Revelation 11:15, 18 says: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.” “But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came.” Yes, the nations expressed wrath toward one another during World War I. (Luke 21:24) The wars, earthquakes, pestilences, food shortages, and the like, that we have seen since 1914 confirm that Jesus is now ruling in God’s Kingdom, and the world’s final end is near.—Matthew 24:3-14.
    ===
    We need to do a comprehensive digest and see where we are going. But the discussion is certainly very interesting and is helping us to remember a lot of Bible teachings.
  8. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    This extract from the Insight book article on "Kingdom of God" sums up for me the manner in which Jesus could be both a king on his return to the heavens in 33CE, and King later on when heading up the long-promised Messianic Kingdom of God.
    “The Kingdom of the Son of His Love.” Ten days after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, on Pentecost of 33 C.E., his disciples had evidence that he had been “exalted to the right hand of God” when Jesus poured out holy spirit upon them. (Ac 1:8, 9; 2:1-4, 29-33) The “new covenant” thus became operative toward them, and they became the nucleus of a new “holy nation,” spiritual Israel.—Heb 12:22-24; 1Pe 2:9, 10; Ga 6:16.
    Christ was now sitting at his Father’s right hand and was the Head over this congregation. (Eph 5:23; Heb 1:3; Php 2:9-11) The Scriptures show that from Pentecost 33 C.E. onward, a spiritual kingdom was set up over his disciples. When writing to first-century Christians at Colossae, the apostle Paul referred to Jesus Christ as already having a kingdom: “[God] delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.”—Col 1:13; compare Ac 17:6, 7.
    Christ’s kingdom from Pentecost of 33 C.E. onward has been a spiritual one ruling over spiritual Israel, Christians who have been begotten by God’s spirit to become the spiritual children of God. (Joh 3:3, 5, 6) When such spirit-begotten Christians receive their heavenly reward, they will no longer be earthly subjects of the spiritual kingdom of Christ, but they will be kings with Christ in heaven.—Re 5:9, 10.
    “Kingdom of Our Lord and of His Christ.” The apostle John, writing toward the close of the first century C.E., foresaw through a divine revelation the future time when Jehovah God, by means of his Son, would make a new expression of divine rulership. At that time, as in the time of David’s bringing the Ark up to Jerusalem, it would be said that Jehovah ‘has taken his great power and begun ruling as king.’ This would be the time for loud voices in heaven to proclaim: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”—Re 11:15, 17; 1Ch 16:1, 31.
    It is “our Lord,” the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, who asserts his authority over “the kingdom of the world,” setting up a new expression of his sovereignty toward our earth. He gives to his Son, Jesus Christ, a subsidiary share in that Kingdom, so that it is termed “the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.” This Kingdom is of greater proportions and bigger dimensions than “the kingdom of the Son of his love,” spoken of at Colossians 1:13. “The kingdom of the Son of his love” began at Pentecost 33 C.E. and has been over Christ’s anointed disciples; “the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ” is brought forth at the end of “the appointed times of the nations” and is over all mankind on earth.—Lu 21:24.
     
  9. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    Did you get time to do this?
    As far as I can see, with reference to Stephen's vision at Acts 7:54-56, we do not appear to have attached significance to his sight of Jesus "standing"  other than as confirmation of Jesus heavenly resurrection and an encouragement to him.
    This was a significant occasion in that Stephen was the first to testify based on vision that Jesus had indeed returned to the right hand of Jehovah in the heavens as promised in Ps.110. He was also the first Christian martyr.
    His entrusting of his spirit to Jesus indicated the intensity of the vision, and his appreciation for Jesus' heavenly posiition and active role in the provision of the resurrection. The experience greatly fortified him at that critical moment, and contributed to maintaining his demeanour before his persecutors as it was reported earlier that "they saw that his face was like an angel’s face" Acts 6:15.
    *** w04 8/1 p. 8 par. 3 Jehovah Reveals His Glory to Humble Ones ***
    For Stephen, this spectacular vision reaffirmed Jesus’ position as God’s Son and the Messiah. It fortified humble Stephen and served to assure him that he had Jehovah’s favor.
  10. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    I would be interested in how you see Rev.11:15 and Rev.11:17 Fitting in with this discussion.
    "The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever." Rev 11:15
    “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king." Rev 11:17
     
  11. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in What is the purest form of Christianity?   
    Question: 
    What is the purest form of Christianity? (@JWInsider) Answer:
    "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." (James 1:27: )
  12. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    “So, this particular idea of "waiting" does not refer to inactivity, or waiting until he becomes an actively ruling King.” – JWInsider
    A very interesting point.
    ======
    (Would also like to put a small bit of seasoning in the pot. See if it is tasty.)
    Heaven is not a place of inactivity
    I would like to posit some of the things Jesus did in 33CE and thereafter. .
    (John 5:16, 17) . ..For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things during the Sabbath. 17 But he answered them: “My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.”
    Jesus continued his work in heaven; the anointed too continue their work in heaven.
    Some of Jesus’ work from heaven prior to millennium rule
    So his work includes empowering his disciples with holy spirit (Pentecost), drawing people, converting them (John 14:6) (Saul – Acts 9) and appointing directly and indirectly, directing (“come over into Macedonia and help us”), overseeing, settling issues (Acts 15), counseling, commending, revealing the future, etc. (Rev 2-3; Book of Revelation), preserving and disseminating the Bible, preserving the wheat-like Christians, giving insight into Bible prophecies, inspecting his spiritual temple, restoring true worship; progressive teaching and training (John 16:12); legally establishing the good news by means of court victories, subduing nations to get preaching done globally; commissioning angels directing preaching work (Rev 14:6)
    Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
    (John 14:15-17) 15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.
    (John 16:12, 13) 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come.
    (John 14:6) Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (Acts 9:14, 15) . . .” 15 But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.
    (1 Timothy 2:7) For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.
    Anointed ones who are resurrected instantaneously also work
    (Revelation 14:13) 13 And I heard a voice out of heaven say, “Write: Happy are the dead who die in union with the Lord from this time onward. Yes, says the spirit, let them rest from their labors, for the things they did go right with them.”
    *** re chap. 30 p. 211 pars. 20 “Babylon the Great Has Fallen!” *** “… Afterward, those of the anointed ones who die during the Lord’s day are promised a special privilege. Their resurrection to spirit life in heaven is instantaneous, “in the twinkling of an eye.” (1 Corinthians 15:52) How marvelous this is! And their works of righteousness continue right on in the heavenly realm”.
  13. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Bible Speaks in 2017 Special Conventions   
    Eoin: Shared some pictures for us to get excited! 
     









  14. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    This whole matter is likely a source of far more than embarrassment for informed and genuine Witnesses everywhere.
    But let's not lose sight of the fact that, despite the whole world being seemingly appalled by this particular crime, it appears to be pandemic.
    For example:
    China: http://www.economist.com/news/china/21705848-china-has-millions-sexually-abused-children-it-beginning-acknowledge-their-suffering
    Russia: https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/child-abuse-in-russia-is-routine-20452
    Nigeria: http://www.voanews.com/a/unicef-report-child-abuse-nigeria/2955314.html
    Argentina: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4db6c687dff74f81bfee4294bf068914/argentina-investigates-alleged-sex-abuse-school
    Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39116477
    The work of the various investigative bodies seems so far to have done little more than reveal that the problem is far more widespread and historic than anyone imagined...everywhere. The disbelief and denial displayed by many decent people in the face of evidence to the contrary serves to illustrate the heinousness of the crime and the challenge of eradication. The "Yes he did" and "No he didn't" chorus is another tragic feature of this whole business.
    Personally, I am glad to have become more aware of the matter, particularly due to the ARC work which provides a better level of information than the vitriolic apostate ramblings, sensationalist news reporting, and other widely circulated accounts. I welcome this level of investigation into all areas and pray that the lessons learned will be applied by all involved institutions despite the fact that they are at best temporary and symptom-focussed. (The bleatings of professionals over cost and implication of measures illustrate institutional unwillingness/inadequacy to deal with the matter).
    Could it be that humanity in general has failed in it's duty to protect it's young ones? Don't all answer at once! And what of the victims? Shattered personalities, ruined and even lost lives...none of this can be restored by compensation or apportioning of blame.
    We are witnessing the fulfillment of Paul's words to Timothy at 2Tim.3:1-5 with self-love replacing natural affection as a feature of human society in these "last days", and none worse than among those "having an appearance of godliness but proving false to it's power.".
    Only Jehovah's Kingdom in Christ's hands can eradicate this abominable practice completely and also redress the effects of the crime effectively as one stated objective puts it: 
    "All the kings will bow down before him, and all the nations will serve him.  For he will rescue the poor who cry for help, also the lowly one and whoever has no helper" Ps 72 11-12
     
  15. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from OtherSheep in Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?   
    Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?
    "Because we cannot see God with physical eyes, he uses certain anthropomorphic expressions to help us to understand and appreciate things about himself." Insight 1 p349
    "anthropomorphic usage, that is, the attributing of physical and human characteristics to God to facilitate understanding" Insight 2 p1007
  16. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?   
    Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?
    "Because we cannot see God with physical eyes, he uses certain anthropomorphic expressions to help us to understand and appreciate things about himself." Insight 1 p349
    "anthropomorphic usage, that is, the attributing of physical and human characteristics to God to facilitate understanding" Insight 2 p1007
  17. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to JW Insider in Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?   
    @Eoin Joyce Wow! I was just thinking about this same point last night for the current thread on Christ's power and authority. In order for us to get a sense of Jehovah's majesty, there must be some extent to which we need certain images in our head, like a crown, a throne, royal garb, a scepter, etc. Jehovah must know that these images are helpful to understand his Sovereignty. The images of a kingdom --with all the glorious splendor of a central palace, a sizable realm, along with an innumerable entourage of soldiers, servants, slaves, messengers at the king's command-- probably carries about the same meaning from the time of the earliest empires until now.
    Clearly there is an element of anthropomorphism in the imagery, because a perfect spirit being needs nothing physical.
    But the fact that Jehovah is a Sovereign or King is important to the concept of his Sovereignty and Kingdom. That Jehovah is at the top of a heavenly hierarchy and is all-powerful is conveyed immediately with these images.
    As Jesus is also a heavenly spirit creature, the same would be true of his Kingdom, too. Obviously, many of the disciples had trouble "spiritualizing" some of the concepts about God's Kingdom through Christ. They considered the physical seat of the Kingdom to be earthly Jerusalem, rather than the Jerusalem above. He spoke of his Father's house as having many mansions, but he also had to remind them that hierarchical positions in that kingdom were not given the same meaning that they might have on earth. Heaven is a place "not made with hands."
    Clearly, the same goes for the term "Bride of Christ" too. In heaven, where "in the resurrection there is neither male or female," Jesus marries a good number of "male virgins." Marriage carries with it the idea of union, love, closeness, loyalty, and an unbreakable bond. The physical concepts of marriage do not apply.
    Therefore, even terms like "Father" and "Son" carry an element of anthropomorphism.
  18. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    This whole matter is likely a source of far more than embarrassment for informed and genuine Witnesses everywhere.
    But let's not lose sight of the fact that, despite the whole world being seemingly appalled by this particular crime, it appears to be pandemic.
    For example:
    China: http://www.economist.com/news/china/21705848-china-has-millions-sexually-abused-children-it-beginning-acknowledge-their-suffering
    Russia: https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/child-abuse-in-russia-is-routine-20452
    Nigeria: http://www.voanews.com/a/unicef-report-child-abuse-nigeria/2955314.html
    Argentina: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4db6c687dff74f81bfee4294bf068914/argentina-investigates-alleged-sex-abuse-school
    Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39116477
    The work of the various investigative bodies seems so far to have done little more than reveal that the problem is far more widespread and historic than anyone imagined...everywhere. The disbelief and denial displayed by many decent people in the face of evidence to the contrary serves to illustrate the heinousness of the crime and the challenge of eradication. The "Yes he did" and "No he didn't" chorus is another tragic feature of this whole business.
    Personally, I am glad to have become more aware of the matter, particularly due to the ARC work which provides a better level of information than the vitriolic apostate ramblings, sensationalist news reporting, and other widely circulated accounts. I welcome this level of investigation into all areas and pray that the lessons learned will be applied by all involved institutions despite the fact that they are at best temporary and symptom-focussed. (The bleatings of professionals over cost and implication of measures illustrate institutional unwillingness/inadequacy to deal with the matter).
    Could it be that humanity in general has failed in it's duty to protect it's young ones? Don't all answer at once! And what of the victims? Shattered personalities, ruined and even lost lives...none of this can be restored by compensation or apportioning of blame.
    We are witnessing the fulfillment of Paul's words to Timothy at 2Tim.3:1-5 with self-love replacing natural affection as a feature of human society in these "last days", and none worse than among those "having an appearance of godliness but proving false to it's power.".
    Only Jehovah's Kingdom in Christ's hands can eradicate this abominable practice completely and also redress the effects of the crime effectively as one stated objective puts it: 
    "All the kings will bow down before him, and all the nations will serve him.  For he will rescue the poor who cry for help, also the lowly one and whoever has no helper" Ps 72 11-12
     
  19. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    This whole matter is likely a source of far more than embarrassment for informed and genuine Witnesses everywhere.
    But let's not lose sight of the fact that, despite the whole world being seemingly appalled by this particular crime, it appears to be pandemic.
    For example:
    China: http://www.economist.com/news/china/21705848-china-has-millions-sexually-abused-children-it-beginning-acknowledge-their-suffering
    Russia: https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/child-abuse-in-russia-is-routine-20452
    Nigeria: http://www.voanews.com/a/unicef-report-child-abuse-nigeria/2955314.html
    Argentina: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4db6c687dff74f81bfee4294bf068914/argentina-investigates-alleged-sex-abuse-school
    Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39116477
    The work of the various investigative bodies seems so far to have done little more than reveal that the problem is far more widespread and historic than anyone imagined...everywhere. The disbelief and denial displayed by many decent people in the face of evidence to the contrary serves to illustrate the heinousness of the crime and the challenge of eradication. The "Yes he did" and "No he didn't" chorus is another tragic feature of this whole business.
    Personally, I am glad to have become more aware of the matter, particularly due to the ARC work which provides a better level of information than the vitriolic apostate ramblings, sensationalist news reporting, and other widely circulated accounts. I welcome this level of investigation into all areas and pray that the lessons learned will be applied by all involved institutions despite the fact that they are at best temporary and symptom-focussed. (The bleatings of professionals over cost and implication of measures illustrate institutional unwillingness/inadequacy to deal with the matter).
    Could it be that humanity in general has failed in it's duty to protect it's young ones? Don't all answer at once! And what of the victims? Shattered personalities, ruined and even lost lives...none of this can be restored by compensation or apportioning of blame.
    We are witnessing the fulfillment of Paul's words to Timothy at 2Tim.3:1-5 with self-love replacing natural affection as a feature of human society in these "last days", and none worse than among those "having an appearance of godliness but proving false to it's power.".
    Only Jehovah's Kingdom in Christ's hands can eradicate this abominable practice completely and also redress the effects of the crime effectively as one stated objective puts it: 
    "All the kings will bow down before him, and all the nations will serve him.  For he will rescue the poor who cry for help, also the lowly one and whoever has no helper" Ps 72 11-12
     
  20. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    Both    
  21. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    Both    
  22. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    Both    
  23. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Anna in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    I believe the hearing is scheduled for Friday 10th March. There is no time allocated yet but since Sydney is GMT + 11 it will likely be on Saturday for most of us....but it's not that big of a deal, because there will be transcripts of the whole hearing available.
  24. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    ???? only severely out of context!!!
    There seems to be an unecessarily extreme position set out in this debate. It appears to be assumed that the idea of Jesus "becoming" king at a date considerably later than the time of his being " exalted to the right hand of God " excludes him being a king in the interim period. The debate appears to focus on the demolition of this idea, which is indeed a false concept, and more than adequately accomplishes this.
    However, this position is not integral to the understanding that a time period could elapse between Jesus returning to the "right hand of God" and his subsequent future role in the execution of Jehovah's "judgement against the nations." Ps 110 (in full).
    A simple parallel can be drawn with Jehovah Himself. Jehovah is termed the King of Eternity. As such, He is not (never has been nor will be) subject to anything, not even the passing of time, despite His existence FROM eternity until the moment of creation when He acted on His decision to share His universe.
    Since the moment He created an intelligent being in the form of his only-begotten Son, He has retained His position as King of Eternity. Despite the attack on His right to rule, and the rebellion of Satan, an unspecified number of powerful spirits, along with millions of mankind on earth, Jehovah has never relinquished His position as King of Eternity. His eternal Sovereignty was acknowledged by his faithful servants on earth, not as a future condition, but as a current state, recognised by faithful humans, spirits, and His only-begotten Son. Ps.47:2,7; Ps. 90:2; Ps.103:19-20; Lu.4:5-8. It was even forcibly impressed on pagan rulers such as Nebuchadnezzar, see Dan.4:34-35,37.
    And yet we find statements such as that of David when the Ark of the Covenant was brought to the City of David:
    "Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be joyful; Declare among the nations: ‘Jehovah has become King!" 1 Chr.16:31 And the Sons of Korah, after stating that Jehovah "is the great King" (Ps.47:2,7) follow up with this:
    "God has become King over the nations. God sits on his holy throne." Ps.47:8. And Isaiah, after referring 8 times to Jehovah as the existing Sovereign Lord, says prophetically in connection with the restoration of Jerusalem:
    "For Jehovah of armies has become King in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem," Is.24:23 Jesus himself, when providing his outline for prayer priorities, said:
    "Let your kingdom come" Matt.6:10. And later, in his revelation, in describing " things that must shortly take place" (Rev.1:1), he points to a future time when:
    “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ"  Rev 11:15. And also that faithful ones say: "We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king" Rev.11:17. So how is it that Jehovah could be "King of Eternity" (1Tim.1:17; Rev.15:2), have His throne "established long ago" (Ps.93:2), with a "kingship that is an eternal kingship" (Ps145:13) and at the same time become king on a number of occasions over the centuries?
    Answer this and you will be on the path to understanding how it is that Jesus, who like his Father, was/is ruling as a king, and yet could/will, also like his Father, become king at the same time. 

     
     
  25. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    ???? only severely out of context!!!
    There seems to be an unecessarily extreme position set out in this debate. It appears to be assumed that the idea of Jesus "becoming" king at a date considerably later than the time of his being " exalted to the right hand of God " excludes him being a king in the interim period. The debate appears to focus on the demolition of this idea, which is indeed a false concept, and more than adequately accomplishes this.
    However, this position is not integral to the understanding that a time period could elapse between Jesus returning to the "right hand of God" and his subsequent future role in the execution of Jehovah's "judgement against the nations." Ps 110 (in full).
    A simple parallel can be drawn with Jehovah Himself. Jehovah is termed the King of Eternity. As such, He is not (never has been nor will be) subject to anything, not even the passing of time, despite His existence FROM eternity until the moment of creation when He acted on His decision to share His universe.
    Since the moment He created an intelligent being in the form of his only-begotten Son, He has retained His position as King of Eternity. Despite the attack on His right to rule, and the rebellion of Satan, an unspecified number of powerful spirits, along with millions of mankind on earth, Jehovah has never relinquished His position as King of Eternity. His eternal Sovereignty was acknowledged by his faithful servants on earth, not as a future condition, but as a current state, recognised by faithful humans, spirits, and His only-begotten Son. Ps.47:2,7; Ps. 90:2; Ps.103:19-20; Lu.4:5-8. It was even forcibly impressed on pagan rulers such as Nebuchadnezzar, see Dan.4:34-35,37.
    And yet we find statements such as that of David when the Ark of the Covenant was brought to the City of David:
    "Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be joyful; Declare among the nations: ‘Jehovah has become King!" 1 Chr.16:31 And the Sons of Korah, after stating that Jehovah "is the great King" (Ps.47:2,7) follow up with this:
    "God has become King over the nations. God sits on his holy throne." Ps.47:8. And Isaiah, after referring 8 times to Jehovah as the existing Sovereign Lord, says prophetically in connection with the restoration of Jerusalem:
    "For Jehovah of armies has become King in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem," Is.24:23 Jesus himself, when providing his outline for prayer priorities, said:
    "Let your kingdom come" Matt.6:10. And later, in his revelation, in describing " things that must shortly take place" (Rev.1:1), he points to a future time when:
    “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ"  Rev 11:15. And also that faithful ones say: "We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king" Rev.11:17. So how is it that Jehovah could be "King of Eternity" (1Tim.1:17; Rev.15:2), have His throne "established long ago" (Ps.93:2), with a "kingship that is an eternal kingship" (Ps145:13) and at the same time become king on a number of occasions over the centuries?
    Answer this and you will be on the path to understanding how it is that Jesus, who like his Father, was/is ruling as a king, and yet could/will, also like his Father, become king at the same time. 

     
     
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