bruceq

LOL. Try the BIBLE. Instead of apostate Christians many years after the Bible was written who burned at the stake anyone who did not believe as they did about God. Its not rocket science here. If your trying to prove something is in the BIBLE then use the BIBLE ! Ask yourself: Why did I need to go a hundred years AFTER the Bible was written to find a teaching that is SUPPOSE to actually be IN THE BIBLE??? If a teaching is in the Bible then you should not HAVE to go elsewhere to get it.

Very good point. After all if the Trinity was in the Bible in the first place then NO ONE would have tried to put it there by a forgery. Which of course proves it is not in the Bible. {Yet that is not the only Bible Scripture found only in the King James and Catholic Douay Bibles that was added by a scribe trying to support the Trinity}. Interestingly there are no spurious Scriptures trying to support the Resurrection. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. There are no spurious Scriptures trying to support Baptism. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. Yet there are about a dozen trying to support the idea of a Trinity that are only in a couple of Translations from 1610, 1611C.E. that have been proven by scholars to be spurious!!! This line of reasoning can also be applied to Evolution. Back in the early 20th Century scientists discovered the "Piltdown Man" but 40 years later it was discovered to have been a forgery by a Scientist trying to prove evolution of humans. Now ponder : Why if evolution was true and a fact would someone create a forgery to prove it? If it was a fact then no one would. There are no Scientific forgeries for other things like "gravity". So the very proponents of evolution have exposed that false teaching just as Christendom's scribes have exposed the false doctrine of the Trinity.

Probably none since the "texts" from the BIBLE were written all by Jews and Jews do not believe in your Trinity God. But please try anyway. Cos said: Irenaeus (120-202) "For I have shown from the scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the scriptures would not have testified these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man.” (Against Heresies, book 3, chapter 19) Tertullian (155-220) "Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, one essence, not one Person” (Against Praxeas, chapter 25) Hippolytus (170-235) “A man, therefore, even though he will it not, is compelled to acknowledge God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus the Son of God, who, being God, became man, to whom also the Father made all things subject, Himself excepted, and the Holy Spirit; and that these, therefore, are three.” (Against The Heresy Of One Noetus, section 8) This is just a few examples of what the early Christians believed These were not the Jewish Bible Writers, I noticed you had to go a hundred or so years after the Bible was written to find anything. . Try again PLEASE.

Sorry but no one can use this Scripture to defend a doctrine the writer as a Jew did not believe in. If he did perhaps he would have used the word "Trinity" in the Scripture but I checked the 110 different Translations in my library and NONE of them say "Trinity" here since the writer was a Jew and they do not believe in Trinities. PLEASE try a different Scripture. Thanks.

So if the Trinity God was on the winning side then why was he fighting against Trinitarians during World War I and II? Or was it just part of your God fighting against the other part.

No. And I have been asking the same question now I think 5 times without a response. Subject is "Trinity" "During World War one or two which side was the Trinity God on?" Notice the question deals with two topics both yours and his. And the other question was :"If it is right to defend your country then why did Jesus tell Peter not to defend him but to "Return your sword to its place, those who live by the sword will die by the sword"? Mt 26:52. BTW Your country belongs to Satan just as every other country does. However if you wish to change the subject then you may start another post and I may reply if it interests me. BTW answering a question with a question is a teaching method used by Jesus. I imitate him sorry if imitating Jesus irritates you.

I always try to look at anything in a positive viewpoint. For example right-hearted honest people will see what is happening to the Witnesses and some will undoubtedly search for the Truth from Jehovah's people since it is quite obvious the Russian Government and ROC are on a ridiculous campaign against a peaceful people. Jehovah will always turn even bad news into something positive. " He will not fear bad news. His heart is steadfast, trusting in Jehovah. His heart is unshakable; he is not afraid . In the end he will look in triumph on his adversaries" Psalm 112:7

Jehovah's Witnesses' buildings damaged FOUR NEW CASES OF VANDALISM AFTER SUPREME COURT DECISION AGAINST JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 5 May 2017 In the night of 22 April 2017 in the city of Gukovo (Rostov province), unidentified persons damaged the building and grounds in which Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services. They broke a mail box, threw mud on the door, and crushed a fence. In the night of 30 April 2017 in the city of Achinsk (Krasnoyarsk territory), one of the local residents who is hostile to the Jehovah's Witnesses broke a window in the building where Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services. On the next day believers asked him to stop doing such hooligan actions. However the local resident responded angrily and said that he will not stop doing what he is doing. In the night of 30 April 2017 in the city of Penza, unidentified malicious persons broke into the territory of the building where Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services. They broke off a wicket gate and hung it on the arch over the place where it was installed. In the night of 2 May 2017 in Kaliningrad, unidentified persons broke a window with a rock in the building where a family of Jehovah's Witnesses live. At the time, a relative of the believers was in the house. When the glass was broken, he was in shock for several minutes. Believers report that he always had peaceful, good-neighborly relations in the area. The only reason for what happened is hatred, he thinks, which was evoked by the Supreme Court's decision on the liquidation of Jehovah's Witnesses and inflamed by the news media. (tr. by PDS, posted 9 May 2017) ALSO: The manifestation of religious-motivated vandalism in the Tula region May 9, 2017 May 5, 2017 in Novomoskovsk (Tula reg.) unknown broke into the yard of the building, which previously took place of worship of Jehovah's Witnesses, and struck on the door threatening inscription. Motivated by religious intolerance action against Jehovah's Witnesses after frequent rendered April 20, 2017 decision of the Supreme Court of Russia on the Elimination of registered organizations of the religion.

The answer is in the previous post. Here it is again in case you missed it :"If it is right to defend your country then why did Jesus tell Peter not to defend him but to "Return your sword to its place, those who live by the sword will die by the sword"? Mt 26:52 BTW Your country belongs to Satan just as every other country does. AGAIN see the previous post. I still do not see the answer as to Who's side was the Trinity God on? Still waiting.

Since you don't like JW.ORG for some reason Try these books: Christian Neutrality and Jehovah's Witnesses God and Man in Washington Beyond Good Intentions Early Christian Attitude to War A History of Christianity It Is Not Lawful For Me To Fight The Court and the Constitution God Versus Ceasar The American Character The Lustre of Our Country On The Road To Civilization Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine Preachers Present Arms [Abrams] World History, the Story of Mans Achievements [Habberton] Christianity and the Roman Government [Hardy] The March of Civilization, Ancient and Medieval World [Wrench] The Church the Gospel and War [Jones] The Ante-Nicene Fathers vol. 3 [Roberts, Donaldson] The Early Fathers on War and Military Service [Swift] Early Church History to the Death of Constantine [Backhouse, Tylor] History of Christianity [Gibbon] A Short Hostory of Rome [Ferrero] The New Worlds Foundations in the Old [West] Those About To Die [Manniz] A History of Christianity [Wolff] Caesar and Christ [Will Durant] Treasury of the Christian World [Nasby] Armed With the Constitution [Newton] State And Salvation The Jehovah's Witnesses and their Fight For Civil Rights [Kaplan] Varieties of Religious Repression : Why Governments Restrict Religion {Sarkissian} To The Flag The Unlikely History of the Pledge of Alligiance The Courage of Their Convictions Salute! The Case of the Bible VS. The Flag The Supreme Court on Church and State Render Unto Caesar The Flag Salute Controversy Marble Palace The Supreme Court in American Life Religious Freedom : Rights and Liberties Under the Law

The answer is in the previous post. Here it is again :"If it is right to defend your country then why did Jesus tell Peter not to defend him but to "Return your sword to its place, those who live by the sword will die by the sword"? Mt 26:52 BTW Your country belongs to Satan just as every other country does. AGAIN see the previous post. Jesus gave a NEW Commandment. John 13:34,35 I did not see the answer as to Who's side was the Trinity God on? Still waiting.

In Moscow, an arson attack on the house in which lived the Jehovah's Witnesses May 8, 2017 April 30, 2017 committed another act of vandalism against the Jehovah's Witnesses religion. In with. Lucina (Moscow reg.), One of the locals, who had previously spoken out against this negative religion, drunk threw a Molotov cocktail into the house where the family lived Jehovah's Witnesses. Two homes and cars destroyed by fire worshipers emerged. The culprit arson was arrested in hot pursuit. http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/170508b.html

Moscow patriarch celebrates Victory Day in Russia PATRIARCH KIRILL BELIEVES THAT GEORGE THE CONQUEROR HELPED RUSSIA WIN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR Interfax-Religiia, 8 May 2017 Victory in the Great Patriotic War was secured with the participation of celestial forces, Patriarch of Moscow and all-Rus Kirill thinks. "The last salvos of the Great Patriotic War resounded on the day of St. George the Conqueror (6 May 1945, on which Easter fell—IF). A coincidence? Some think so, but not we, people of faith. Is it really possible to consider it a coincidence that the marshal of the victory was Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov?" the patriarch said after a divine liturgy that he served on the day of the memorial of George the Conqueror in the St. George church on Poklonnaia Gora in Moscow. In the primate's opinion, St. George "through these signs showed to us his presence in our struggle and in our victory." "So on today we also pray to the Greatmartyr St. George, that he would preserve our fatherland from enemies, foreign and domestic, and that he would protect Moscow and strengthen the faith of the residents of this city so that Moscow would become the capital city not only in name but also in the faith of people living within it," he said. The patriarch believes that if the nation will pray to St. George, "Russia will be invincible and the city of Moscow will be great." (tr. by PDS, posted 9 May 2017)

What testimony? They wrote the New Testament. Yet you give us no evidence in Scripture, why? Here is a book about the persecution of the early Christians and similarities with Jehovah's Witnesses of today such as with the flag salute and allegiance to the state as similar in Roman times. Note this quote : From Those About to Die, by D.P.Manniz, : “Christians refused to sacrifice to the emperor’s genius—roughly equivalent today to refusing to salute the flag or repeat the oath of allegiance. …Very few of the Christians recanted, although an altar with a fire burning on it was generally kept in the arena for their convenience. All a prisoner had to do was scatter a pinch of incense on the flame and he was given a Certificate of Sacrifice and turned free. It was also carefully explained to him that he was not worshiping the emperor; merely acknowledging the divine character of the emperor as head of the Roman state. Still, almost no Christians availed themselves of the chance to escape.” Jehovah's Witnesses just like the first century Christians also do not salute the flag or pledge of allegiance to any country or person other than the Creator. Because of that neutral stand they have been hated and persecuted since World War 1 and through the holocaust of Nazi Germany and in many countries even today such as in South Korea where every Witness male upon reaching the age of 18 are automatically put in prison because they refuse to join the military. Jesus said that true Christians would be identified by the love they would have among themselves. John 13:34,35. Christianity is a global religion, if one country went to war against another one then Christians would be killing there own brothers such as Catholics and Protestants have done in the World Wars. That is why Jehovah's Witnesses do not get involved or fight for any nation for their allegiance is to God alone and His Kingdom not any bickering government of this earth. Jesus told us the identifying mark of his true disciples would be that they would have "love among themselves" Jn. 13:34,35. Ask yourself does it show love to slaughter your brother from another religion or even your own religion on the battlefield? What if your government told you to defend its country by fighting against others of your own faith : Catholic verses Catholic, Protestant verses Protestant, Muslims, Hindus ....If it is right to defend your country then why did Jesus tell Peter not to defend him but to "Return your sword to its place, those who live by the sword will die by the sword"? Mt 26:52. Ask yourself the next time there is a war such as during WW1 or WW2 or any war since where Catholics and Protestants killed each other on both sides - WHICH SIDE WAS GOD ON ???? Obviously neither for this world, its religions, nationalism, materialism Governments are all being mislead by Satan the Devil. Revelation 12:9 says : "the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth." Jesus also clearly shows us John 17:16: "They are no part of the world, just as I [Jesus] am no part of the world." John 6:15: "Jesus, knowing they [the Jews] were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone." Later, he told the Roman governor: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."-John 1836. Jas. 4:4: "Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God." (Why is the matter so serious? Because, as 1 John 5:19 says, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." At John 14:30, Jesus referred to Satan as being "the ruler of the world." So, no matter what worldly faction a person might support, under whose control would he really come?)

For answers to any questions please see JW.ORG. I did not see the answer as to Who's side was the Trinity God on?

Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the divinity of Christ. I have no problem with Jesus being called "God" with a capital "G".{RS pg. 426} But the Jewish Bible Writers do not believe in a TRINITY. .. Try again.

Any form of "Christianity" they would have converted to may have been a "counterfeit" form of Christianity. How do we know your religion is counterfeit if it looks real? Jesus said "by their fruits you would recognize them" Mt.7 and "By this all will know that you are MY DISCIPLES if you have LOVE among yourselves". Jn 13:35 I have seen many Trinitarians during war fighting against other Trinitarians Catholics killing Catholics, Protestants killing Protestants during the World Wars both saying the Trinity God was on their side. Who's side was God on? I guess according to your belief one part of the Trinity was on one side and another part of your Trinity was on the other side and the third one must have been a referee. As Jesus said it is actually quite easy to see False Religion. I have no problem with Jesus being called "God" with a capital "G". But the Jewish Bible Writers do not believe in a Trinity. And I noticed no Scripture from you to indicate otherwise. {Pg. 213 Rs"}.

http://tass.com/world/945093 “Who is Jehovah, that I should obey his voice to send Israel away? I do not know Jehovah at all" Ex. 5:2 “Hear the word of the great king, the king of As·syrʹi·a.+ 29 This is what the king says, ‘Do not let Hez·e·kiʹah deceive you, for he is not able to rescue you out of my hand.+ 30 And do not let Hez·e·kiʹah cause you to trust in Jehovah by saying: “Jehovah will surely rescue us, and this city will not be given into the hand of the king of As·syrʹi·a.”+ 31 Do not listen to Hez·e·kiʹah, for this is what the king of As·syrʹi·a says: “Make peace with me and surrender,* and each of you will eat from his own vine and from his own fig tree and will drink the water of his own cistern, 32 until I come and take you to a land like your own land,+ a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Then you will live and not die. Do not listen to Hez·e·kiʹah, for he misleads you by saying, ‘Jehovah will rescue us.’ 33 Have any of the gods of the nations rescued their land out of the hand of the king of As·syrʹi·a? 34 Where are the gods of Haʹmath+ and Arʹpad? Where are the gods of Seph·ar·vaʹim,+ Heʹna, and Ivʹvah? Have they rescued Sa·marʹi·a out of my hand?+ 35 Who among all the gods of the lands have rescued their land out of my hand, so that Jehovah should rescue Jerusalem out of my hand?” 2 KIngs 18.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/respond-to-accusations/ Jehovah’s Witnesses follow the Bible’s advice not to respond to all accusations and instances of ridicule. For example, a Bible proverb says: “The one who corrects a ridiculer invites dishonor.” (Proverbs 9:7, 8; 26:4) Rather than being pulled into quarreling by an undue concern over false accusations, we focus on pleasing God.—Psalm 119:69. Of course, there is “a time to be silent and a time to speak.” (Ecclesiastes 3:7) We respond to sincere people who are interested in finding out the truth, but we avoid getting into pointless arguments. We thus follow the teachings and examples of Jesus and the early Christians. Jesus made no answer when he was falsely accused before Pilate. (Matthew 27:11-14; 1 Peter 2:21-23) Likewise, Jesus did not respond to accusations of being a drunkard and a glutton. Instead, he let his actions speak for themselves, in harmony with the principle: “Wisdom is vindicated by its results.” (Matthew 11:19, footnote) When the circumstances called for it, though, he boldly responded to those who slandered him.—Matthew 15:1-3; Mark 3:22-30. Jesus taught his followers not to be discouraged by false accusations. He said: “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake.” (Matthew 5:11, 12) Yet, Jesus also said that when such accusations opened the way for his followers to give a witness, he would fulfill his promise: “I will give you words and wisdom that all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute.”—Luke 21:12-15. The apostle Paul counseled Christians to avoid pointless disputes with opposers, describing such arguments as “unprofitable and futile.”—Titus 3:9; Romans 16:17, 18. The apostle Peter encouraged Christians to defend their faith when possible. (1 Peter 3:15) Yet he recognized that this is often best done by action rather than by word. He wrote: “By doing good you may silence the ignorant talk of unreasonable men.”—1 Peter 2:12-15.

“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open". Matt. 7:6 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Rev. 22:15 “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.” 1 Cor. 5:12 Footnote "dogs" :That is, those whose practices are disgusting in God’s eyes.

“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open". Matt. 7:6.

It is of interest that the very arguments that the ones on the "outside" like the anti-cultist apostates from the Russian Ministry of Injustice say about "disfellowshipping" and "some" here on this forum about those having "total control" are EXACTLY the same arguments Korah brought up in Numbers Cp. 16. Like those taking the lead in Jehovah's Organization are "tyrannical" "Now do you also want to make yourself an absolute ruler over us? as well as "Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah? Num 16. Those were the words the REBELS said not the loyal ones! Jehovah says showing such disrespect to his imperfect human reps such as Moses and Aaron was showing disrespect to Him. And we know what happened. Witness : Why are you so upset with me? I did not even mention your name - interesting. "For this reason, you and all your supporters who are gathering together are against Jehovah. As for Aaron, who is he that you should murmur against him?" Num 16:11.

DEFENSE FOR JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES EXPRESSES FEARS ABOUT THE FATE OF BELIEVERS AFTER RUSSIAN SUPREME COURT'S DECISION Kavkazskii Uzel, 5 May 2017 The decision of the Supreme Court that liquidated the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia may be seen as a signal for prosecution of believers by siloviki [security forces] and local authorities, attorneys for the religious organization who were questioned by Kavkazskii Uzel declared. However they said that it is still not necessary to speak of mass repressions. As Kavkazskii Uzel has written, on 20 April the Russian Supreme Court granted the demand of the Ministry of Justice for the liquidation of 396 religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, including their administrative center in St. Petersburg, as extremist. The court ordered confiscation of the property of these organizations for state use. The Jehovah's Witnesses called the court's sentence prejudiced. On 24 April the Zamoskvoreche district court of Moscow concluded that the decision of the Ministry of Justice to suspend the activity of the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia is legal. The side of the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses received on 2 May the rationale part of the Supreme Court's decision. The decision for the liquidation of the religious organizations of Russian Jehovah's Witnesses will take effect only after it goes through the appellate stage, attorney Anton Omelchenko declared. "Only after the full text of the decision is handed over will the counting of the appeal period of one month begin. Then in the course of several months it will be considered in the judicial college of the Supreme Court. And there is a chance that the decision may be overturned or changed," the attorney explained. The session of the appellate college of the Supreme Court on the lawsuit to suspend proceedings on the administrative case from the religious organization "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" has been scheduled for 11:40 on 13 June, the court's website says. Since the activity of 396 legal entities has been immediately stopped by the court's decision of 20 April, then all actions in the name of these organizations are impermissible. "I think that members of the organizations are law-abiding people. In Derbent, apparently, ordinary citizens professing the religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and not representatives of the banned organizations, wanted to arrange a public event. In that case, nobody had the right to prevent private individuals from believing as they wish. The court's decision does not speak of a ban on belief," Omelchenko thinks. Earlier Dagestani Jehovah's Witnesses told Kavkazskii Uzel that the landlord had terminated the agreement for rent of one of the buildings that was used in 2016 as the place for religious meetings. A representative of the congregation said that such a decision by the owner of the building was made after siloviki summoned him and threatened him with problems "in doing business." "The court's decision may be interpreted as a ban on the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses" The Supreme Court's decision does not specify the grounds for the liquidation of local religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, an attorney of the Russian Administrative Center, Viktor Zhenkov, thinks. "395 legal entities (local religious organizations—K.U. note) were liquidated without the participation of their representatives, and this is specified in the decision. In neither the resolution part nor the reasoning part does the court indicate what the extremist actions of each of the closed local religious organizations consisted of. The Supreme Court's decision noted only the arguments of the Ministry of Justice and the arguments of the defense are not mentioned once and are not refuted in any way," he told a Kavkazskii Uzel correspondent. In his opinion, the future of individual believers in Russia depends on the decisions of law enforcement agencies. "If one follows the letter of the constitution, then article 28 speaks of the right of a person to believe and to profess his religion, that is, to conduct specific actions: to read Scripture, to discuss faith with other people—friends or strangers. However the Supreme Court's decision does not say a word confirming or denying such a right of believers. The judge did not give an assessment of the fears of the defense side about the fate of individual Jehovah's Witnesses: whether they can gather together and conduct actions in accordance with their convictions, not as members of a forbidden organization but as private individuals," Zhenkov noted. The attorney fears that in places the Supreme Court's decision may be interpreted as a ban on the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. "Governmental bodies of local self-government may view this decision as requiring them to resist all Jehovah's Witnesses, whether they are individual believers or united in an organization or not," he supposes. In its lawsuit, the Ministry of Justice referred to decisions pertaining to local religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, where literature that had been ruled to be extremist was found. The Ministry of Justice's attorney declared in court that after the liquidation of the organization, law enforcement agencies will be able to open criminal cases against believers of this confession on the basis of article 282.2 of the Criminal Code of the RF (arranging the activity of an extremist organization), which provides for fines of from 300 to 800 thousand rubles and incarceration of from two to 12 years. The right of Jehovah's Witnesses to freedom of conscience will be regularly and massively violated in Russia after the liquidation of their local religious organizations and police, and prosecutor's offices will not focus on legal niceties in assessing the practices of believers, lawyers and rights advocates questioned by Kavkazskii Uzel predicted. The siloviki have received carte blanche for criminal prosecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, legal scholars conclude. "We have not gotten statistics on those who have left Russia" An accounting of the number of believers who have left Russia and become political refugees has not been conducted, declares Yaroslav Sivulsky, a representative of the liquidated administrative center. "There is information that one or another person has left. We do not consider it our task to monitor, analyze, or collate these processes. To leave one's country is a serious decision, which each one makes personally," Sivulsky told a Kavkazskii Uzel correspondent. "A few people, including from the south of Russia, have left and received political asylum. But we have not gotten any statistics on those leaving Russia," Anton Omelchenko confirmed this information. In the session of the Supreme Court of 12 April, lawyers for the defendant reported that several believers from Taganrog (Rostov province) received political asylum in Europe after the activity of the local congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses was ruled to be extremist and was banned by a court in September 2009. According to the account of the investigation, after the prohibition a group of believers continued to conduct prayer services and to study literature that had been ruled to be extremist. The defendants did not acknowledge their guilt, considering that they were being persecuted for religious convictions. On 30 November 2015, four defendants in the case of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Taganrog were given suspended sentences and another 12 were fined. This decision came as a result of a review of the original verdict, according to which in 2014 nine of the 16 defendants were acquitted. On 16 March 2016, the Rostov provincial court confirmed the conviction of the Taganrog Jehovah's Witnesses. "Law-enforcement machine 'traps' believers for reading the Bible" Yaroslav Sivulsky pointed out the information about the warnings issued to individual believers by law enforcement agencies about the "impermissibility of extremist activity" for assembling in a home to read the Bible. "The law-enforcement machine has already actually begun 'to trap' believers for reading the Bible. In Tatarstan, for example, the prosecutor's office issued a warning to a religious group that was not a member of any currently officially forbidden local religious organization. And the person gathering a group of believers was warned not to conduct a meeting of believers and not to read the Bible along with them," he noted. After the issuance of the Supreme Court's decision there occurred attacks of hooliganism. "For example, they broke windows with stones in the Hall of Congresses in St. Petersburg that is idle at the present time. However one cannot say that massive repressions throughout Russia against Jehovah's Witnesses have begun," Yaroslav Sivulsky emphasized. In the regions of Russia, at least four such cases have been identified. In particular, in the night of 22 April in the city of Gukovo (Rostov province) unidentified persons damaged the residence in which meetings of believers were held. A mailbox was damaged and the entrance door was smeared with mud and the gate damaged, the official website of Russian Jehovah's Witnesses reports. "Are Jehovah's Witnesses here?" "From Vladikavkaz there have arrived, still not confirmed, reports about the collection of information in educational institutions about children who adhere to the confession of Jehovah's Witnesses. If we receive more precise information, we will be able to report this in detail. From Stavropol, audio recordings were sent of a class in one of the schools, but for now it is not known which one. On the recording is heard the voice of a teacher who is conducting a unique lesson in political information, telling the pupils that Jehovah's Witnesses are banned in Russia and they may present a danger," Yaroslav Sivulsky explains. Kavkazskii Uzel is in possession of an audio recording made, according to Sivulsky, at an event in a Stavropol school. A female voice says: "Jehovah's Witnesses are totally forbidden on the territory of our state by law. This is because . . . Americans are trying to disable us and they are trying to do this with the help of religion. After all, Jehovah's Witnesses are from America. And all this is clearly being paid for . . . After all, they all do not work, these Jehovah's Witnesses. But what do they live on? Are there Jehovah's Witnesses here—can someone enlighten us?" A question also is raised about the rationale of the judicial ban of religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, supposedly addressed to pupils, which also expresses uncomplimentary opinions about adherents of this religion. The Ministry of Education and Science of North Ossetia refused to comment on the information collected from these schools of the republic about children from families of Jehovah's Witnesses. A representative of the ministry told a Kavkazskii Uzel correspondent that written or oral reports on this matter have not been received. A representative of the Ministry of Education of Stavropol territory had difficulty commenting on an audio recording of a class that was conducted, in the opinion of representatives of Russian Jehovah's Witnesses, in one of the schools of the region. "Perhaps the issue is an educational hour conducted by leaders of the class," a representative of the ministry told a Kavkazskii Uzel correspondent. (tr. by PDS, posted 7 May 2017)

Yes the arguments of opposers about "disfellowshipping" and other murmuring never gets old, its all the same arguments. I had a cousin who was an elder back in the late 1970's who became an apostate and use to picket District Conventions and write letters to the wives of Elders to try and sway them. He did this for years UNTIL a news report came out about him in the newspaper about how he was arrested for being a john to a prostitute. Interestingly he suddenly stopped picketing at the Conventions. LOL. As Jesus said eventually "by their fruits you will recognize them" Matt. 7.

It is of interest that the very arguments that the anti-cultist apostates from the Russian Ministry of Injustice say about "disfellowshipping" and "some" here on this forum about those having "total control" are EXACTLY the same arguments Korah brought up in Numbers Cp. 16. Like those taking the lead in Jehovah's Organization are "tyrannical". Korah said "Now do you also want to make yourself an absolute ruler over us? as well as "Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah? Num 16. Those were the words the REBELS said not the loyal ones! Jehovah says showing such disrespect to his imperfect human reps such as Moses and Aaron was showing disrespect to Him. And we know what happened. Moses and Aaron stood up against disloyal ones as well so don't feel bad about it or even feel the need to argue with them. Jesus said it bluntly when he said :" “Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open". Matt. 7:6. A forum is like a high school cafeteria where different tables discuss different things and sometimes it is necessary to change tables to the nerdy ones before a food fight entails.