bruceq

Also 2 Cor. 4:4 says Satan is the "god of this world". And "God or god is preceded by the definite article "the" so according to John 1:1 Satan would also be GOD. Of course thankfully Bible translators do not go by just "grammar" but also many other things such as Bible harmony and context since everyone KNOWS Satan is not THE GOD !

Just quoting the "Reasoning" book. Page 213 :"Does Thomas’ exclamation at John 20:28 prove that Jesus is truly God? John 20:28 (RS) reads: “Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind"
I would love to stay on topic of the Trinity in the Bible but COS will not give any Scriptures in the Bible. Sorry about the fish thingy but I was bored. 

Something fishy here
"the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" Rev. 12

Also about the early Christians that COS brings up here is more info {Again not printed from Watchtower publications]:
A History Of Christianity {Latourette}:
   This is a great history book dealing with the beliefs of the early Christians of the first few Centuries. The REMARKABLE similarities between the early Christians mentioned in this book and Jehovah's Witnesses is astounding. Here are just a few of what this 724 page book mentions : 
1. Jesus and early Christians were non-political.
 2. Apostasy developed after first century.
 3. Early Christians did not compromise with pagan festivals.
 4. Early Christians did not partake of military service.
 5. Early Christians had no creeds. 
6. Early Christian congregations had more than one elder later changed to one Bishop. 
7. Early Christians had no clergy class. 
8. Every early Christian was a minister [priest]. 
9. Early Christians did not celebrate Easter, Christmas. 
10. Early Christians had a vivid belief in the nearness of the end of the world. 
11. Early Christian monetary contributions were voluntary. 
12. Early Christians had a strict view of entertainment. 
13. Early Christians were a united brotherhood. 
14. Divorce only allowed if adultery committed. 
15. Early Christians had an zealous ardent desire to share their beliefs with others. and 
16. Early Christians believed in disfellowshipping  wrongdoers and then reinstatement after some time if repentant. And much more! The Watchtower Society has quoted many times from this book regarding the beliefs noted above.
 
As you can see this history book of the Christians of the first century comparing with later centuries shows that Jehovah's Witnesses have restored the true Biblical first century Christian beliefs. This book is  by Kenneth Scott Latourette and is in good condition [1975] with a few pages with writing or underlining.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-History-Of-Christianity-Watchtower-Research-Apostasy-Trinity-War-Disfellowship/391753361009
Here is a list of many more books also dealing with this subject {Again none are printed by the Watchtower}:
Early Christianity Belief and History
The Rise Of Christianity 
A History of Christianity 
Josephus 
Tacitus Annals of Imperial Rome 
Who Was A Jew 
The Early Church and the World 
Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine 
On The Road To Civilization 
Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine 
Preachers Present Arms [Abrams] 
World History, the Story of Mans Achievements [Habberton] 
Christianity and the Roman Government [Hardy] 
The March of Civilization, Ancient and Medieval World [Wrench] 
The Church the Gospel and War [Jones] 
The Ante-Nicene Fathers vol. 3 [Roberts, Donaldson] 
The Early Fathers on War and Military Service [Swift] 
Early Church History to the Death of Constantine [Backhouse, Tylor] 
History of Christianity [Gibbon] 
A Short Hostory of Rome [Ferrero] 
The New Worlds Foundations in the Old [West] 
Those About To Die [Manniz] 
A History of Christianity [Wolff] 
Caesar and Christ [Will Durant] 
Treasury of the Christian World [Nasby] 
The Beginnings of Christianity [Craig] 
Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine 
Christianity in Talmud and Midrash 
God and Man in Washington 
Beyond Good Intentions 
Early Christian Attitude to War 
A History of Christianity 
It Is Not Lawful For Me To Fight 
The Court and the Constitution 
God Versus Ceasar 
The American Character 
The Lustre of Our Country 
On The Road To Civilization 
Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine 
Preachers Present Arms [Abrams] 
World History, the Story of Mans Achievements [Habberton] 
Christianity and the Roman Government [Hardy] 
The March of Civilization, Ancient and Medieval World [Wrench] 
The Church the Gospel and War [Jones] 
The Ante-Nicene Fathers vol. 3 [Roberts, Donaldson] 
The Early Fathers on War and Military Service [Swift] 
Early Church History to the Death of Constantine [Backhouse, Tylor] 
History of Christianity [Gibbon] 
A Short Hostory of Rome [Ferrero] 
The New Worlds Foundations in the Old [West] 
Those About To Die [Manniz] 
A History of Christianity [Wolff] 
Caesar and Christ [Will Durant] 
Treasury of the Christian World [Nasby] 
Armed With the Constitution [Newton] 
State And Salvation  The Jehovah's Witnesses and their Fight For Civil Rights [Kaplan] 
Varieties of Religious Repression : Why Governments Restrict Religion {Sarkissian} 
To The Flag The Unlikely History of the Pledge of Alligiance 
The Courage of Their Convictions 
Salute! The Case of the Bible VS. The Flag 
The Supreme Court on Church and State 
Render Unto Caesar The Flag Salute Controversy 
Marble Palace The Supreme Court in American Life 
Religious Freedom : Rights and Liberties Under the Law 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/lisa.joeywit/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Thanks James

For more info on the fish god of Christendom and the pagan trinity god see these books [none of which are printed by Jehovah's Witnesses]: 
Pagan Origins of Trinity and Religious Teachings from my library:
God The Invisible King [H.G. Wells] 
Sacred Origins 
A History of Christianity 
Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation 
Many Witnesses One Lord 
Christianity and World Religions 
Dictionary of the Bible [McKenzie] 
Trinitys Weak Links Revealed 
The Non-Christian Cross 
Encyclopedia of American Folklore 
Extraordinary Origins 
The American Character 
When Jesus Became God 
Two Babylons [Hislop] 
The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture 
Jesus God or the Son of God 
The Patristic Gospels 
Bible Myths and Parallels in Other Religions [Doane] 
The Paganism in Our Christianity [Weigall] 
Witch Hunts in the Western World 
Concepts of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit 
Popes Visit Time Life 
Morals and Missiles  
Religion of Babylonia and Assyria 
Religions Babylonian Assyrian [Hooke] 
Dawn of Civilization [Engberg] 
Ancient Pagan Christian Symbolism 
1594 De Cruce Justus Lipsius 
Chronicles of the Unholy Fathers 
Halloween From Pagan Ritual to Party Night 
Sacred Origins 
Pagan Traditions 
The Christian Book of Why 
Extraordinary Origins 
Halloween American Holiday 
Two Babylons [ Hislop] 
Christmas in America [Restad] 
Pagan and Christian Creeds [Carpenter] 
Christmas Customs and Traditions [Miles] 
Stories Behind the Great Traditions of Christmas [Collins] 
Toward the Origins of Christmas [Roll] 
Bible Myths and Parallels in Other Religions [Doane] 
Myths of the Sun...Concerning teh Sun and its Worship [Olcott] 
The Golden Bough [Frazer] 
The Paganism in Our Christianity [Weigall] 
How It Started [Garrison] 
The Battle For Christmas [Nissenbaum] 
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html

Revelation 18:
   Babylon the Great has fallen,+ and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit* and every unclean and hated bird lurks!+ 3  For because of the wine of the passion* of her sexual immorality,* all the nations have fallen victim,+ and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her,+ and the merchants* of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury.”4  And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people,+ if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.+ 5  For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven,+ and God has called her acts of injustice* to mind.+ 6  Repay her in the way she treated others,+ yes, pay her back double for the things she has done;+ in the cup+ she has mixed, mix a double portion for her.+ 7  To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’+ 8  That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire,+ because Jehovah*God, who judged her, is strong.+9  “And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality* with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning. 10  They will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say: ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city,+ Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’11  “Also, the merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full cargo anymore, 12  a full cargo of gold, silver, precious stones, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, and scarlet cloth; and everything made from scented wood; and every sort of object made from ivory, and from precious wood, copper, iron, and marble; 13  also cinnamon, Indian spice, incense, perfumed oil, frankincense, wine, olive oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle, sheep, horses, carriages, slaves, and human lives.* 14  Yes, the fine fruit that you* desired has left you, and all the delicacies and the splendid things have vanished from you, never to be found again.15  “The merchants who sold these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16  saying: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, clothed with fine linen, purple, and scarlet and richly adorned with gold ornaments, precious stones, and pearls,+ 17  because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’“And every ship captain and every seafaring person and sailors and all those who make a living by the sea stood at a distance 18  and cried out as they looked at the smoke from her burning and said: ‘What city is like the great city?’ 19  They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and mourning, and said: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, in which all those who had ships at sea became rich from her wealth, because in one hour she has been devastated!’+20  “Be glad over her, O heaven,+ also you holy ones+ and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced his judgment on her in your behalf!”+21  And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.+ 22  And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23  No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices+ all the nations were misled. 24  Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones+ and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”+

About COS'  Fish god : Hatmehyt
Her name can be translated as "she who is in front of the fishes" or "Foremost of the fish". This could either suggest that she was the most important of the (few) fish cults, or that she was considered to be the oldest fish deity. She was sometimes depicted as a fish (either a dolphin or a lepidotus fish) or a woman with a "Fish" emblem on her head.
Doesn't the POPE have a headpiece also with a fish emblem on it. The very religion that believes your Trinity?

That was answered in the previous post.
As for the other questions I noticed you said in EACH of them "according to the Bible" well your belief should be demonstrated from Scripture and since Scripture were all written by the Jews who do not believe in a Trinity then the answer is that God is not a Trinity.
"Let the proof-texting acrobatics begin. On your marks ... get set ... GO!"
Oh sorry you are still stuck at the starting line since you now have no frame of reference {The path you are racing on is gone} since the Bible was not written by Trinitarians but by Jews. 
Of course you can do what many Trinitarians like Cos did in using sources many years after the Bible was written. That would be another road to race on but I will not be on that road because I believe that only "GODS WORD is Truth" John 17:17.

{The Dagon thing came from James I never even mentioned that. My argument was with any form of Idolatry such as the fish symbol Cos uses after every statement instead of a period. A symbol for something in writing is known as a hieroglyph and then the thread emerged into something fishy about the clothes the Pope wears lol. I could care less about that although a picture is worth a thousand words - Pope and Pharoah's hats} 
Here is a quote from another member to answer you :"bruceq made a fabulous work giving you scriptural and secular proof that the trinity doesn't exist and that the first Christians didn't believe in such nonsense. You should read again his comments and try to respond if you think the proof he presented you is lacking. "
Hislop was from about 150 years ago so of course it will not be entirely accurate but there is hundreds as seen in my list of recent publications about the pagan origins of many of the things in Christendom and NONE of those books were written by Jehovah's Witnesses.
{Do you believe Christmas also has pagan origins? Thats rhetorical because I am trying not to get off topic.}
Yes I agree the Trinity is a problem for you since it is not in the Bible.  I know my God, He is no mystery,  so his identity is not a problem for me.
"3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." John 17:3 
"And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’+ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,”+ declares Jehovah." Jer. 31:34

By the way not all here are Jehovah's Witnesses so your remarks are irrelevant. So where is the Trinity in your Bible?  
 "Yet you are the ones guilty of using pagan symbols mixed in as Christian. Charles T. Russell’s gave site…pagan! The cover of Watchtower books with the Egyptian Sun god RA emblazoned on the cover…pagan!  And the list goes on."
Of course but once they found out it was PAGAN they changed. What about you? If you found out that your cherished beliefs were also false as the Witnesses did are you humble enough to change?

I didn't realize listing my historical library was going to cause such a fuss [at least to one person]. Why did you single out just one of the hundreds of books I listed? The only book I consider to be completely true is the Bible. Why do you think I stated that none of these books were printed by the Watchtower? Because I knew some would protest which I do not care at all if you wish to be ignorant of historical items of interest. The books I listed are ALL the ones that the Watchtower has ever quoted from in the last +100 years in my library all of which I have read and studied.
  I have not only studied all the Watchtower publications in existence but all  the books ever quoted by said religion. And I have come to the conclusion that of the +2,000 religions on earth there is only ONE GOD  and therefore ONE FAITH. And since the vast majority of the religions believe in a Trinity makes it quite apparent to me that it is false since Satan is "misleading the entire earth". So the "majority" at this time would not have truth but falsehood.
   Of course the only real question is "Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?" And my response is  - How could it possibly be since the  writers were all Jews who do not believe in a Trinity and no Trinitarian for whatever reason has been able to prove by any Scripture that the Trinity even exists in the Bible...WHY is that?
 
OMALY said: You also do realize that concepts about triad groupings of gods are not the same as the Trinity idea, don't you?
   How do you define your Trinity then and where is it in YOUR Bible? I realize there are many different types and definitions of the Trinity almost as many as the number of religions in the world. But since there is only ONE God that should tell you something. LOL 

Sorry meant Watchtower authored. Thanks for the correction. 
None of the books I listed were published by the Watchtower Society.

I agree.  The Bible writers did not believe in a Trinity.

These are just books I have used, I do not endorse any except the BIBLE. I thought I made myself clear on that.  I find no problem researching other books then ones written by Witnesses as most of the books I listed are also quoted by  Watchtower publications. I offer these so people can check for themselves what is written within the context of the material and who wrote it. Of course there are inaccuracies in all books that are not the Bible because they are not the inspired WORD of GOD. Jn. 17:17.
These are SECULAR books. But Bible Truth is found in the Bible.
 
"As a general point about your list, I suggest you go through each book and each of your favorite claims in those books and consider:
"Before trusting it, ask: (1) Who published this material? What are the author’s credentials? (2) Why was this published? What motivated the writer? Is there any bias? (3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? (4) Is the information current?" - Watchtower, 8/15/2011, p.4"
Very good point and should that also be done with the BIBLE? As you quoted above by that criteria JEWS WROTE THE BIBLE and JEWS do not believe in a Trinity. So no one can find it there no matter what.
(1) Who published this material? What are the author’s credentials? The Bible was written by Jews who were under inspiration from God and did not believe in a Trinity.
(2) Why was this published? What motivated the writer? Is there any bias? God the author wanted to let us know who he is {not a Trinity} and have a relationship with him. 
(3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? Inspired by GOD. So you cannot argue with it or make the author believe something other than he really believes in.
(4) Is the information current?" - Watchtower, 8/15/2011, p.4" The Bible is for ALL ages as it comes from the "ONLY true God" Jn. 17:3

Luke 4:7, 8  - A JEW who does not believe in a Trinity
Revelation 22:9 - John was also a JEW who did not believe in a Trinity
Hebrews 1:6 - Paul was a JEW who did not believe in a Trinity
Revelation 5:13, 14 - And once again John was a JEW and not a Trinitarian
 
   Nice try but it was not just the Old Testament that was written by Jews. John was a Jew as were all the Apostles and therefore ALL the Bible Writers you QUOTED from and even Jesus was a Jew and Jews do not believe in the Trinity. So you will not find it there no matter what but PLEASE keep trying {Give us more Scriptures} as this is hilarious as you are trying to "make" a writer believe what he himself does not believe  in. 

I agree with you, consider this:
  SIMPLICITY is key:
   It is true that the intent of the person performing the {Shaw-kaw} or {Proskyneo} must be taken into account. For example John who did it to the angel in Revelation obviously had the wrong intent but in some other areas such as Num. 22:31 :" Then Jehovah uncovered Baʹlaam’s eyes,+and he saw Jehovah’s angel standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand. At once he bowed low and prostrated himself on his face." Why did not the angel here say "do not do that"? Because the angel was representing as a spokesman for God. Just like the angel who spoke for God to Moses said "I am the God of Abraham ,Issac and Jacob" at the burning bush. It was not God but an angel who actually "SAID" the "words". Acts 7:30-38. {IE : Secretary [word] and buisnessman [God} relationship}. This type of relationship is used many many times in the Bible whenever God communicates with humans for the reason "NO MAN CAN SEE GOD AT ANY TIME" John 1:18 this is why He uses angels and Jesus as His WORD and why Jesus and angels are NOT GOD since humans can and have seen them.
   This is why Jesus is called the {Logos} or WORD of God. He speaks for God as His representative or spokesman just as other angels {messengers} have done. Therefore John 1:1 can be translated either way with no argument. In other words "In the beginning was the Angel and the Angel was with God and the Angel was God {or a god}". He was God in the same sense other angels were by being the WORD or spokesman for God and he was a god by being a creature higher than humans. So there is NO reason to argue about that Scripture and have "debates about words" because docrinally it can be translated either way with no problem to Jehovah's Witnesses.
  This line of reasoning has worked for me with several Trinitarians who were hung up on passages that said Jesus was God and yet Jesus was obviously inferior since he prayed to him and was "obedient" to God. There is absolutely no reason to argue with people over "debates about words" SIMPLICITY is the KISS method that Jesus used so effectively. IMITATE JESUS.

Sorry but all the Bible writers were JEWS and Jews do not believe in a Trinity so no one can find it taught in the Bible. If you believe otherwise then show us a Scripture that teaches it in any way.

So Moses was not worshiping the right God. lol
Wrong. Jesus was a Jew as were all the Apostles, why Paul even said what tribe he was from. Try again.

I believe in all the Bible. I do not think anything is wrong with using the Bible.

I read the Bible and all publications. I have over 200 different Bible Translations not just he ones by the Witnesses,. And I sell on ebay over 800 other books on the Bible very few are Watchtower publications. If you want to read the Bible by itself then go for it. But you will not find the Trinity because the writers were not Trinitarian.

I suppose you could believe the moon is made of cottage cheese.  But that does not make it true. Please show me a Scripture that proves your belief in your God. Can you at least do that much. Prove that God is a Trinity using your Bible. That is the topic???

I quote the Bible as a WHOLE. Rather than pick it apart. 
" 1 Corinthians 12:3 "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit."
Sorry but that Scripture was written by Paul and he was a JEW. And Jews do not believe in a Trinity. Please try again with another Scripture.

Glad to see you admit the Bible was written by Jews. Now take the next step:
Obviously I do not dismiss the Bible and its teaching. You are by trying to say the Bible writer believes something that we all know they do not for Jews do not and have never believed that God is a Trinity yet you continue to use the Bible to try and find it. It is futile of you to do so, but please keep trying if you must as any operation has some pain with it. Don't shy away give us a Scripture that teaches a Trinity PLEASE.
 "1 Cor 12:3" Dosen't matter which Translation you use. That Scripture was still written by Paul and Paul was a Jew and Jews do not believe in a Trinity.

Oh and by the way angels in the Bible have also been called GOD even Jehovah God but that did not make them such

Sorry but ALL the Apostles were Jews and they did believe in Christ who by the way was also a JEW who does not believe in a Trinity. LOL See how simple the Truth is? Oh please don't leave just because you cannot defend you false god. GIVE us a Scripture that teaches your Trinity doctrine.
"You will KNOW the Truth, and the Truth will set you free" Jn 8:32