bruceq

Very good point. After all if the Trinity was in the Bible in the first place then NO ONE would have tried to put it there by a forgery. Which of course proves it is not in the Bible. {Yet that is not the only Bible Scripture found only in the King James and Catholic Douay Bibles that was added by a scribe trying to support the Trinity}.
    Interestingly there are no spurious Scriptures trying to support the Resurrection. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. There are no spurious Scriptures trying to support Baptism. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. Yet there are about a dozen trying to support the idea of a Trinity that are only in a couple of Translations from 1610, 1611C.E. that have been proven by scholars to be spurious!!!
    This line of reasoning can also be applied to Evolution. Back in the early 20th Century scientists discovered the "Piltdown Man" but 40 years later it was discovered to have been a forgery by a Scientist trying to prove evolution of humans. Now ponder : Why if evolution was true and a fact would someone create a forgery to prove it? If it was a fact then no one would.  There are no Scientific forgeries for other things like "gravity". So the very proponents of evolution have exposed  that false teaching just as Christendom's scribes have exposed the false doctrine of the Trinity.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the divinity of Christ. I have no problem with Jesus being called "God" with a capital "G".{RS pg. 426}  But the Jewish Bible Writers do not believe in a TRINITY.  .. Try again.  

No one is disputing Jesus' divine nature. Compare (1Pet.1:4). Nevertheless, what is "begot" is most definitely,............... "begun".

World opinion favors Jehovah's Witnesses versus Russian state
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN RUSSIA: NEWS OF THE DAY AND LATEST FORECASTS REGARDNG ACTIVITY OF THE ORGANIZATION
by Viktor Boiarchuk
FTimes, 13 May 2017
 
The period from 20 April to the present was extremely troublesome for people of faith. Each person found for himself a hidden subtext in the Russian Supreme Court's decision to rule the activity of the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" to be extremist, which will entail the closure of the organization. To a great extent, this means that nobody will see on the streets of his city kind elderly women and friendly young people distributing among the populace brochures about the imminent advent of the Kingdom of God, ftimes.ru reports.
 
It would seem that these people could evoke such emotions connected with extremism that would seem such as would not offend even flies. Which is really a rejection of their persistent chatter and peculiar opinion about the role of man in God's purposes. Evidently, the verdict of the Supreme Court of the RF was dictated by serious grounds for its adoption.
 
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia: Reaction of the international community
 
The voice of the noisy "Jehovists," as they are contemptuously called in Russia and other Slavic countries, was immediately heard by their fellow believers in other countries and also by the legal community of Europe. Reaction to the decision of the Supreme Court turned out to be extremely negative. The German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, along with the Minister for Human Rights of the European Union, Joyce Annelay, stressed that if the government of the Russian federation will not give heed to the fundamental human rights and freedom of citizens of their own country, then it should give head at least to its own independently drafted legislation.
 
And this legislation, in its turn, confirms the freedom of each person to free expression and religious confession. More than 170,000 followers of the faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses experience great dissonance when comparing these words with real facts. Of course, the lawyers of the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia can still file an appeal against the decision of the Russian Supreme Court in the European Court for Human Rights. Most likely the appeal will be granted, although it will not be a surprise for anyone if the Supreme Court does not submit to it and the state, even in the event that the verdict is challenged, will implement a tactic of passive displacement of followers of this faith to the margins of society, which still is a violation of human rights.
 
The development of the conflict within the state will only serve for a yet greater negative view of Russia in the world as a country where such concepts as tolerance and respect for others' faith are alien.
 
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia: Earlier episodes of struggle of authorities in Russia with the Jehovists
 
Sooner or later, this or a similar decision will have to stir up the world community, since pressure on this organization on the part of the state has been conducted for a rather long time at the regional level. If the court's decision fails to be appealed at the supreme instance, then the organization will have to be liquidated and all its property will be transferred to the state. Fellow believers throughout the world are expressing sympathy and are ready to provide help of any type in order to preserve the organization in Russia.
 
However, back in soviet times Russia was able to fight against the Jehovists. Officially the organization appeared in Russia back in the time of Nicholas II. In soviet times adherents of this faith were persecuted and subjected to repressions and imprisoned in Siberian and Central Asian camps. Jehovah's Witnesses themselves did not offer resistance, since this violates their convictions. In our time the Russian authorities, repeating the persecutions of the early 1990s, in 2004 tried to prohibit the activity of the organization, based on incitement of hatred, manifestation of disrespect to other faiths, and distribution of forbidden materials.
 
As is known, the brochures "Awake" and "Watchtower" do not contain any extremist materials, so that one can draw the conclusion that the Supreme Court's decision was dictated by abject adherence to popular prejudices and stereotypes. In any case, it is clear that the international community will not let pass such a violation of the rights of believing people. (tr. by PDS, posted 16 May 2017)

Jehovah's Witnesses report negative effects of court's ruling
NEW INCIDENTS OF VANDALISM AGAINST JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES: VORONEZH AND SVERDLOVSK PROVINCES
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 15 May 2017
 
Late in the evening of 6 May 2017, unidentified persons drove up in an automobile to a residence on MPS St. in the village of Novokhopersky (Voronezh province) and broke glass in the apartment of a local resident who professes the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The action was accompanied by shouts whose meaning the woman was not about to make out.
 
In addition, in the night of 14 May 2017 in the city of Ekaterinburg, on the porch of a building in which Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services, unidentified persons drew an insulting inscription.
 
The decision of the Supreme Court against the organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, issued on 20 April 2017 and not having taken legal effect, evoked a wave of aggressive actions against adherents of this religion. Incidents occurred also in St. Petersburg, in Kaliningrad, Moscow, Penza, Rostov, and Tula provinces, and in Krasnoyarsk territory. (tr. by PDS, posted 15 May 2017)
 
RIGHT TO ALTERNATIVE CIVILIAN SERVICE CONTINUES TO BE DENIED BELIEVERS, WITH APPEAL TO RUSSIAN SUPREME COURT DECISION
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 15 May 2017
 
Another incident of the violation of the right to alternative civilian service occurred in Chuvashia. On 12 May 2017, in the city of Shumerlya, a draft commission refused the constitutional right to alternative civilian service for 18-year-old Avel Lukin, for whom performing military service contradicts his convictions. One of the members of the draft commission, appealing to the decision of the Supreme Court against the organizations of Jehovah's witnesses, said to the young man: "You may keep your convictions to yourself, and your faith, too."
 
Avel was issued a summons to appear on 22 May 2017 for dispatch to processing for military service. He intends to appeal the decision of the draft commission. (tr. by PDS, posted 15 May 2017)
 
AFTER DECISION OF SUPREME COURT, PRESSURE ON JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CHILDREN INCREASES IN SCHOOLS
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 15 May 2017
 
Against the background of the judicial proceedings against organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, several children who are being trained in accordance with biblical morality have begun experiencing unprecedented pressure on the part of teachers and police personnel.
 
On 28 March 2017, in the city of Ufa (Bashkortostan), a police officer, A. Rozhkin, arrived at the home of a family with several children and, finding the oldest son, asked for a written explanation regarding their religious confession. When the mother approached, with her daughters, the officer demanded explanations of why the woman "involves minor children in extremist activity" (which does not correspond to reality). The woman refused to provide an explanation, and the older daughter began recording the officer's words on her cell phone camera. Subsequently the police have continued to put pressure on the family.
 
On 17 April 2017, in one of the schools of Rodionovo-Nesvetaisk district of Rostov province, the class director summoned out of class a 14-year-old girl to the office of the school's director, who had previously taken her telephone from her. In the office, police officer A. Yunyaev, and also a man in civilian clothes, began telling the girl that her Mama forces her to go to a "terrorist organization," in which "they are robbed" and "taught to kill people." The official brought the child to tears by frightening the child, hurting her feelings, and falsely claiming that the Jehovah's Witnesses allegedly would "strap her up and send her to blow up the school." They urged the girl "to rat on her Mama and not go to meetings." "If you wish, read the Bible at home, and do not go anywhere," they said. "Just read our Bible, from the Church."
 
On 24 April 2017, in one of the schools of Pizhansk district of Kirov province, two pupils of the sixth grade, sisters from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses, in a music class refused to perform a song whose text extols military actions and murder (which contradicts the religious convictions of the family). Although the teacher knows the views of this family, she sent the children from the classroom to search for another song, with a raised voice, which brought them to tears. In front of the whole class the teacher said to the girls: "You are now banned, and we are fed up with your religion." Later in a conversation with the girls' Mama, the teacher said: "You are now extremists and there will be no mercy." Nevertheless, the family managed to get agreement on performance of a song about nature, which does not contradict their views. The teacher graded the girls down "for a song off-topic."
 
According to legislation in effect in Russia, parents have the preemptive right over all other persons to teach and train their children. It is on the parents that the Family Code imposes the duty of concern for the "spiritual and moral development of their children." (tr. by PDS, posted 15 May 2017)

16) Three blind mice
17) The Three Degrees
18) Moe, Larry and Curly
19) Emerson, Lake and Palmer
20)  Kepler's three laws of planetary motion
21) Earth, Wind and Fire
22) Tom, Dick and Harry
23) Shake, Rattle and Roll
24) Three Billy Goats Gruff
25) Lies, damn lies and statistics
 

Sorry but to me the Truth is simple and I try to imitate my Great Teacher 
The basic truths of God’s Word are not incomprehensible or complicated. In prayer, Jesus said: “I publicly praise you, Father, . . . because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes.” (Matthew 11:25) Jehovah has caused his purposes to be revealed to those with sincere and humble hearts. (1 Corinthians 1:26-28) Thus, simplicity is a key feature of Bible truth.
   In forums there can be an “extravagance of speech” which could be intimidating, especially to those with limited education or ability like me. (1 Corinthians 2:1, 2) Jesus’ example shows that simple words carefully chosen can convey the truth with much power.
   It also often helps in not "debating about words" by being simple. And I am therefore trying not to be argumentative with people here. The simple statement that the Bible was written by Jews who do not believe in a Trinity I think goes much farther then debating and arguing over words. I have had tremendous success with that approach in field service over the past 40 years.
   To tell an experience when I was a teenager back in 1978 my next door neighbor was a Pentecostal Born-Again Fundamentalist who challenged me {a Jehovah's Witness} to have a debate on the Trinity. We gave each other one month to get all the info we could to defend our positions. During that time I went a little overboard {It was summer vacation and I had alot of free time} I read the ENTIRE Bible and wrote down every Scripture that would contradict the idea of a Trinity. But then I didn't stop there as I knew he would say "Well that is your Bible" so I acquired 50 different Translations and checked all of them against the Scriptures I found. Anyway after the month was over we came together and he showed me one page on paper with about 10 Scriptures. I showed him my kitchen table filled with 50 Bibles and 250 pages of 1,200 Scriptures against the Trinity. Well after he saw that do you know what he said? "Well I have faith that God is a Trinity" and didn't even want to discuss it further and his mother said he could not be my friend anymore ! 
   After that I decided to simplify my approach to Witnessing although I still have those Scriptures bound in a book entitled "Jehovah Our God Is One Jehovah". {never published as I didn't feel worthy enough to do so with my research at age 15}. Anyway reading the Bible with the intent of debating with others is not the proper way to get to "know God" as I learned by trial and error. Jn. 17:3.

A few weeks ago I tried this approach with someone at the door {I usually never get anyone anymore mentioning the trinity even tho I live in the Bible belt}. Anyway the first Scripture he brought up was of course Jn. 1:1 so I said "Well who wrote that Scripture. He said "John" and I said and John was a Jew and Jews do not believe in a Trinity so I am afraid you will have to find another Scripture since he would never write about or teach something he did not believe in himself. So he went to Hebrews Chp.1 and of course the same thing occurred only about Paul. He then said "Well it dosen't matter what Scripture I use then does it" Then I said "Ya thats the point, the Trinity is not in the Bible"! It is funny however to see someone act like a squirrel trying to cross a road. They usually end up pretty flat.
Anyway I actually have a return visit on him and he is now much less argumentative and wants to learn more about the Witnesses from Witnesses. 

A few weeks ago I tried this approach with someone at the door {I usually never get anyone anymore mentioning the trinity even tho I live in the Bible belt}. Anyway the first Scripture he brought up was of course Jn. 1:1 so I said "Well who wrote that Scripture. He said "John" and I said and John was a Jew and Jews do not believe in a Trinity so I am afraid you will have to find another Scripture since he would never write about or teach something he did not believe in himself. So he went to Hebrews Chp.1 and of course the same thing occurred only about Paul. He then said "Well it dosen't matter what Scripture I use then does it" Then I said "Ya thats the point, the Trinity is not in the Bible"! It is funny however to see someone act like a squirrel trying to cross a road. They usually end up pretty flat.
Anyway I actually have a return visit on him and he is now much less argumentative and wants to learn more about the Witnesses from Witnesses. 

A few weeks ago I tried this approach with someone at the door {I usually never get anyone anymore mentioning the trinity even tho I live in the Bible belt}. Anyway the first Scripture he brought up was of course Jn. 1:1 so I said "Well who wrote that Scripture. He said "John" and I said and John was a Jew and Jews do not believe in a Trinity so I am afraid you will have to find another Scripture since he would never write about or teach something he did not believe in himself. So he went to Hebrews Chp.1 and of course the same thing occurred only about Paul. He then said "Well it dosen't matter what Scripture I use then does it" Then I said "Ya thats the point, the Trinity is not in the Bible"! It is funny however to see someone act like a squirrel trying to cross a road. They usually end up pretty flat.
Anyway I actually have a return visit on him and he is now much less argumentative and wants to learn more about the Witnesses from Witnesses. 

I like this. The scoundrels will always try to muddy the waters in hopes you will eventually say "Ah, the hell with it - let them have it their way!" The answer is as Bill Clinton said: KISS (keep it simple, stupid.)
I also like the observation I read in a Watchtower somewhere: 'The scriptures that can be used to refute the trinity were not written for that purpose.' I like to focus on what they were written for. 
I won't spend much time with trinitarians. If possible, they are more persistent than apostates in arguing. They will not give up and many of them make provisions in their wills for someone to take over in the event they should drop. 

Merkel, Meeting Putin, Raises Treatment of Gays and Jehovah’s Witnesses
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR and ALISON SMALEMAY 2, 2017
Continue reading the main storyShare This Page Share Tweet Email More Save Photo   President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany spoke at a news conference in Sochi, Russia, on Tuesday. CreditPool photo by Alexander Zemlianichenko MOSCOW — Germany’s chancellor, Angela Merkel, took the opportunity of a rare visit to Russia to raise domestic human rights issues on Tuesday with President Vladimir V. Putin, a noted departure from their continuing differences over Ukraine and Syria.
Ms. Merkel said she had talked to Mr. Putin about her concerns on civil rights in Russia, including, among other issues, the persecution of gay men, a new ban on Jehovah’s Witnesses and arrests of anti-Kremlin protesters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/europe/merkel-putin-russia.html
Also watch it here at 9:48 min : httyoutube.com/watch?v=QpwR44MRXDI … ps://youtu.be/QpwR44MRXDI

Latest JW Broadcast confirms that indeed many are now becoming interested in Jehovah's Witnesses because of the lies of Christendom's Churches and the anti-cultist and the actions of the Government of Russia:
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/LatestVideos/pub-jwb_201705_16_VIDEO

Yup they are probably gnashing their teeth. Many will need dental surgery soon.

Sorry meant Watchtower authored. Thanks for the correction. 
None of the books I listed were published by the Watchtower Society.

Many who believe that Jesus is God or in the Trinity rely only on a few selected, so-called 'proof-texts'.
1. > If you want to tackle one of these (refute) please start a new thread (topic) and send me the link to that thread to add below
2. > Gen. 1:26  
3. > Gen. 19:24 
4. > Isa. 6:3 ("Holy, Holy, Holy")  
5. > Isa. 9:6  
6. > Isa. 42:8/Heb. 1:3  
7. > Isa. 43:11 (Savior)  
8. > Isa. 44:6 ("First and the Last") 
9. > Isa. 48:16 
10 > Micah 5:2 
11 > Habakkuk 1:12 
12 > Zechariah 12:10  
13 > Matt. 1:23 ("Immanuel") - NAME  
14 > Matt. 12:32  
15 > Matt. 28:19  
16 > Luke 12:10  
17 > John 1:1 
18 > John 2:19  
19 > John 5:18  
20 > John 5:23  
21 > John 8:58 (I AM)  
22 > John 10:17-18  
23 > John 10:30  
24 > John 10:33 ("a god" or "God"?)  
25 > John 14:7-9  
26 > John 14:14  
27 > John 16:7-15  
28 > John 20:28 (My God)  
29 > Acts 5:3, 4  
30 > Acts 10:38  
31 > Acts 13:2  
32 > Acts 20:28  
33 > Acts 28:25  
34 > Rom. 8:27  
35 > Rom. 9:5  
36 > 1 Cor. 12:11  
37 > 2 Cor. 4:4  
38 > 2 Cor. 13:14  
39 > Eph. 4:30  
40 > Eph. 5:5 ("Sharp's Rule")  
41 > Phil. 2:5, 6  
42 > Col. 1:16 
43 > Col. 2:9  
44 > 1 Tim. 3:16  
45 > Heb. 1:6  
46 > Heb. 1:8 (“Thy Throne, O God”)  
47 > 2 Pet. 3:18  (Savior)  
48 > 1 John 5:7  
49 > 1 John 5:20  
50 > Rev. 1:8  
51 > Rev. 1:17 ("First and the Last")  
52 > Rev. 5:6 and Rev. 5:13 ("Throne")  
53 > Rev. 22:1 (Throne)  
54 > Rev. 22:13 (Alpha / Omega)

Wow, this thread has grown so fast I hardly have time to keep up with it! Very good reading though and some good reasoning. What I have found though when it comes to arguing with Trinitarians about the Trinity....it leads absolutely nowhere....mainly because the Trinity is such a fundamental and "sacred" idea to them that denying it is tantamount to blasphemy. To them it's almost like if an atheist tried to convince us Witnesses that there is no God.
What I find fascinating is that pretty much everything surrounding the birth of the Trinity, or the official definition of it, or the definition of the substance of the Christ in relation to God etc. is based on human philosophies and not the simple and pure language of the scriptures.  Jesus’ disciples in the 1st Century clearly understood  Jesus to be  the son of God and a separate being from him. The simple statements that the Bible makes about the Father, his son and the holy spirit were later twisted into an incomprehensible pretzel, which as Eoin points out, needs an equally incomprehensible vocabulary and explanations which actually don’t explain anything and so ironically end up being called a “mystery” for simplicity sake.
Just the other day in service we got to talking to a man who brought up the argument that Jesus could not have been a created being because if he was, he could not have atoned for our sins. That he had to be God himself to make the sacrifice valid. Where do they get that idea from? Doesn’t  Paul in 1 Cor 45-47 explain it quite well: “So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.”  The last Adam became a life-giving spirit...... The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven”. In fact, why did the 2nd Century “church fathers” have the need to define the substance of Jesus when as the apostle Paul says “If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one”. All they had to do is simply understand that when Jesus was first created he had a spiritual body, then when he was transferred into the womb of Mary he had a physical body and when he was resurrected he became a spirit being again.
It's interesting that the church fathers didn't seem to refer to the scriptures much but rather to Greek and other philosophical ideas to determine the substance of the Christ. They preferred going beyond what was written.

By the way not all here are Jehovah's Witnesses so your remarks are irrelevant. So where is the Trinity in your Bible?  
 "Yet you are the ones guilty of using pagan symbols mixed in as Christian. Charles T. Russell’s gave site…pagan! The cover of Watchtower books with the Egyptian Sun god RA emblazoned on the cover…pagan!  And the list goes on."
Of course but once they found out it was PAGAN they changed. What about you? If you found out that your cherished beliefs were also false as the Witnesses did are you humble enough to change?

I didn't realize listing my historical library was going to cause such a fuss [at least to one person]. Why did you single out just one of the hundreds of books I listed? The only book I consider to be completely true is the Bible. Why do you think I stated that none of these books were printed by the Watchtower? Because I knew some would protest which I do not care at all if you wish to be ignorant of historical items of interest. The books I listed are ALL the ones that the Watchtower has ever quoted from in the last +100 years in my library all of which I have read and studied.
  I have not only studied all the Watchtower publications in existence but all  the books ever quoted by said religion. And I have come to the conclusion that of the +2,000 religions on earth there is only ONE GOD  and therefore ONE FAITH. And since the vast majority of the religions believe in a Trinity makes it quite apparent to me that it is false since Satan is "misleading the entire earth". So the "majority" at this time would not have truth but falsehood.
   Of course the only real question is "Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?" And my response is  - How could it possibly be since the  writers were all Jews who do not believe in a Trinity and no Trinitarian for whatever reason has been able to prove by any Scripture that the Trinity even exists in the Bible...WHY is that?
 
OMALY said: You also do realize that concepts about triad groupings of gods are not the same as the Trinity idea, don't you?
   How do you define your Trinity then and where is it in YOUR Bible? I realize there are many different types and definitions of the Trinity almost as many as the number of religions in the world. But since there is only ONE God that should tell you something. LOL 

Suppose if it smells like a fish...............

Nonsense. At the very least, even disregarding the worldwide witness given - I mean, who else has such love for every other member that they would do such a thing? - they have 'rescued' Post Offices the world over, which are always on the brink of collapse. Thus, they make for themselves friends in high places.
You need to be more positive, JTR. Turn that frown upside down.

Something fishy here
"the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" Rev. 12

Yup they are probably gnashing their teeth. Many will need dental surgery soon.

In the original post the point I was making is that Jesus can be called "God" because "the angel of the Lord" {Jehovah's angel}  was also called God but obviously according to context and harmony we all know angels are not GOD. The point I am making is GOD is merely a TITLE that can be applied to others including Jesus but that does not make them all the same person or "God".

We need wait no more. JWBroadcasting now reporting on increased attention worldwide as result of the ban and resulting publicity, people checking to see if jw. org is really extremist and finding it is not. Knowledge of this contribution to the worldwide ministry will fortify Russian brothers for some time to come.
Thank you, Witness, for adding to the letter count, and thus magnifying attention. They were all sunk to the bottom of the sea anyway, most likely. But the impression of the count is overwhelming. Just ask Guinness.