bruceq

it was all very predictable. And to think that apostates helped us, inflating the letter count with their pleas for the ban to go forward, If I wasn't mad at them, I would offer a hearty 'thank you.'

Just quoting the "Reasoning" book. Page 213 :"Does Thomas’ exclamation at John 20:28 prove that Jesus is truly God? John 20:28 (RS) reads: “Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind"
I would love to stay on topic of the Trinity in the Bible but COS will not give any Scriptures in the Bible. Sorry about the fish thingy but I was bored. 

About COS'  Fish god : Hatmehyt
Her name can be translated as "she who is in front of the fishes" or "Foremost of the fish". This could either suggest that she was the most important of the (few) fish cults, or that she was considered to be the oldest fish deity. She was sometimes depicted as a fish (either a dolphin or a lepidotus fish) or a woman with a "Fish" emblem on her head.
Doesn't the POPE have a headpiece also with a fish emblem on it. The very religion that believes your Trinity?

I had a Bible study that once said that the Bible condoned drug abuse. He used the Scripture that said "Stephen was stoned". Now you can see how Trinitarians try so hard to use that same kind of reasoning about  something that the Bible writers did not themselves even believe in. "Father Son and spirit are mentioned together means they are the same", by that reasoning "Abraham, Issac and Jacob" are also mentioned together several times does that mean they are all the same being? And BTW those three men were all JEWS and JEWS do not believe in God as a Trinity. {Shema Deut 6:4}.

Very good point. After all if the Trinity was in the Bible in the first place then NO ONE would have tried to put it there by a forgery. Which of course proves it is not in the Bible. {Yet that is not the only Bible Scripture found only in the King James and Catholic Douay Bibles that was added by a scribe trying to support the Trinity}.
    Interestingly there are no spurious Scriptures trying to support the Resurrection. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. There are no spurious Scriptures trying to support Baptism. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. Yet there are about a dozen trying to support the idea of a Trinity that are only in a couple of Translations from 1610, 1611C.E. that have been proven by scholars to be spurious!!!
    This line of reasoning can also be applied to Evolution. Back in the early 20th Century scientists discovered the "Piltdown Man" but 40 years later it was discovered to have been a forgery by a Scientist trying to prove evolution of humans. Now ponder : Why if evolution was true and a fact would someone create a forgery to prove it? If it was a fact then no one would.  There are no Scientific forgeries for other things like "gravity". So the very proponents of evolution have exposed  that false teaching just as Christendom's scribes have exposed the false doctrine of the Trinity.

“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine,  so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open". Matt. 7:6.

So the point is: Are Jehovah's Witnesses the true religion or not?
A simple yes or no, a book is not necessary to answer the question. 

Do you think the WAY Jehovah handled the incident with Abraham and Issac should have been handled in a different WAY?
I mean "tying up" a "boy" and then holding a knife to him seems like what some would call "Child Abuse". Some would say it was petulant, overreaching, CRUEL and created FEAR!  Was it RIGHT for Jehovah to do that? Why would we think that our Way of doing something is better than God's Way just because it is not according to human norms in todays' society, the very society norms under the influence of Satan. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah." Isa. 55:8
Or what about when Jesus said to eat his blood and flesh without any explanation after all what Jesus said was wrong according to the Bible - to eat blood and flesh. He ALLOWED many to leave without even explaining himself. Was that the RIGHT WAY to handle it?  How would YOU have handled it differently?
You see the point is not the" WAY IT IS DONE" at all is it?
It is LOYALTY to Jehovah's WAY whether we understand it or not.

Do you think the WAY Jehovah handled the incident with Abraham and Issac should have been handled in a different WAY?
I mean "tying up" a "boy" and then holding a knife to him seems like what some would call "Child Abuse". Some would say it was petulant, overreaching, CRUEL and created FEAR!  Was it RIGHT for Jehovah to do that? Why would we think that our Way of doing something is better than God's Way just because it is not according to human norms in todays' society, the very society norms under the influence of Satan. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah." Isa. 55:8
Or what about when Jesus said to eat his blood and flesh without any explanation after all what Jesus said was wrong according to the Bible - to eat blood and flesh. He ALLOWED many to leave without even explaining himself. Was that the RIGHT WAY to handle it?  How would YOU have handled it differently?
You see the point is not the" WAY IT IS DONE" at all is it?
It is LOYALTY to Jehovah's WAY whether we understand it or not.

I should hold up my end and comment here. But the three-in-one doctrine is so obviously a crock, put to bed 100 years ago, that it is hard to work up an interest.
When you have a situation that violates common sense, such as '3 are really 1', it is not up to the common sense person to persuade that common sense holds here as well. It is up to the loon to persuade that the loony interpretation, in this case, is the correct one. 
Sometimes the loony version turns out to be true. Not everything is as meets the eye. But that does not change the fact that the burden of proof is on the loonytunes person, not the common sense person, to prove his case.
And if all they can come up with is plays upon words, in a world in which literature routinely does that, that doesn't strike me as too persuasive.

What he said. Is it that obscure?
Certainly we all need to do proper Bible study. But, I have my doubts that studying what Clement meant constitutes "proper" Bible study. Neither does the poring over ancient Jewish traditional folk-lore..
Complete oversight here I think. Didn't you already quote 1Pet.1:15-16? Surely even Clement referred to Paul's letter to the Corinthians at 47:1,2?
As, it is asserted, does the notion that Clement's listing of God, Christ, and Holy Spirit supports the teaching of the Trinity.
In fact, it is difficult to see how something which no one (apparently) can understand or explain logically can be called a "teaching". However, the best this line of argument appears to acheive is to equate the Trinity with the phoenix which appears to consign both to the category of...."myth". 
This seems uncharacteristically childish! Surely God can set the general principles by which His thoughts are ordered?
I didn't think a law had been established on this element of posting structure? Pardon me if a protocol has been inadvertantly violated. 

Song 83 –  "From House to House"
Pieśń  83 –  Od drzwi do drzwi (=From door to door)
https://www.jw.org/pl/publikacje/muzyka-pieśni/radosnie-spiewajmy-jehowie/
I read that in Polish Language it reads "from door to door"
thanks.
 

Here is a thought. Why would the Government give a gun to an "extremist" and tell him to fight for his country?  Does not add up = paradox.

Strange you have to go outside the BIBLE to prove God is Trinity even though he didn't even say it. Why was that?
   The Bible clearly shows what you believe to be true about Church Fathers that AFTER the Bible was written false doctrines wound spring up. So your very "proof" is proof that the Trinity came AFTER the Bible was written and is not in the Bible for if it was no men afterward would have needed to make statements or creeds to formulate a teaching that is already in the Bible in the first place.
 "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you  and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30  and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." Acts 20:29,30.

I had a Bible study that once said that the Bible condoned drug abuse. He used the Scripture that said "Stephen was stoned". Now you can see how Trinitarians try so hard to use that same kind of reasoning about  something that the Bible writers did not themselves even believe in. "Father Son and spirit are mentioned together means they are the same", by that reasoning "Abraham, Issac and Jacob" are also mentioned together several times does that mean they are all the same being? And BTW those three men were all JEWS and JEWS do not believe in God as a Trinity. {Shema Deut 6:4}.

By George!! I think you've got it!!!
Howdy Doody; Double Doody; Photo Doody...........they were all one and the same!!
Let's all take a break.....
 

sigh .....
I am trying to imagine what instant in time that the Apostle Paul was walking down a dirt road in the hot sun, and being well versed in Jewish History and the Law of God .. which he knew would call for his death by stoning, for preaching about a 3-in-1 god, stopped in revelation and against everything the Jews had learned for thousands of years, facepalmed his forehead, and realized that Jesus was praying to HIMSELF those nights  ... and it finally came to me, boys and girls, what time it was ....
It was HOWDY DOODY TIME!
( Apologies to those less than 65 years of age who may not get the reference ...)
.

Quite true (although the grammar needs adjustment) .
And you don't even have to get that complicated. Gen.2:24 describes the closest human relationship between two persons possible saying "they will become one flesh",  but surely, no one understands this as meaning they will become one person.....or do they???

Belief in the Trinity depends upon taking literally certain expressions that, in any other context, would instantly be recognized as figures of speech.
If they read 'beating around the bush' in an article, they understand the meaning. It they read it in the Bible, they look for the bush.
If they read of persons shedding 'crocodile tears' in an article, the understand the meaning. If they read it in the Bible, it is proof to them that the persons were really crocodiles.

Hello Cos
Hopefully your grasp of scriptural detail is a little firmer than your assessment of gender.
General principles can be drawn from Biblical passages, regardless of context.
 Opposition to the Trinity does not necessarily make one a friend of the Truth.
Could you quote 1stC examples at all, other than Ignatius of Antioch whose quoted reference from his Epistle to the Magnesians, is attributed to 2nd C and appears really...insubstantial (pardon the pun): "whatsoever ye do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit;"

Very good point. After all if the Trinity was in the Bible in the first place then NO ONE would have tried to put it there by a forgery. Which of course proves it is not in the Bible. {Yet that is not the only Bible Scripture found only in the King James and Catholic Douay Bibles that was added by a scribe trying to support the Trinity}.
    Interestingly there are no spurious Scriptures trying to support the Resurrection. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. There are no spurious Scriptures trying to support Baptism. Why? Because it is taught in the Bible. Yet there are about a dozen trying to support the idea of a Trinity that are only in a couple of Translations from 1610, 1611C.E. that have been proven by scholars to be spurious!!!
    This line of reasoning can also be applied to Evolution. Back in the early 20th Century scientists discovered the "Piltdown Man" but 40 years later it was discovered to have been a forgery by a Scientist trying to prove evolution of humans. Now ponder : Why if evolution was true and a fact would someone create a forgery to prove it? If it was a fact then no one would.  There are no Scientific forgeries for other things like "gravity". So the very proponents of evolution have exposed  that false teaching just as Christendom's scribes have exposed the false doctrine of the Trinity.

I always try to look at anything in a positive viewpoint. For example right-hearted honest people will see what is happening to the Witnesses and some will undoubtedly search for the Truth from Jehovah's people since it is quite obvious the Russian Government and ROC are on a ridiculous campaign against a peaceful people. Jehovah will always turn even bad news into something positive. " He will not fear bad news.  His heart is steadfast, trusting in Jehovah.   His heart is unshakable;  he is not afraid . In the end he will look in triumph on his adversaries" Psalm 112:7

But not by First Century Christians taught by Jesus you know the ones in the New Testament. They used the BIBLE. The Bible, every single book in it, was written by Jews and Jews do not believe in God as a Trinity. So nobody can claim the Trinity is in the Bible if the writers did not believe in it. In fact WHO did believe in a Trinity at the time the Bible was written, say the first 5 books of Moses? It was the Egyptians the very ones who enslaved the Jews. And throughout history it was always the ENEMIES of God's people who believed in trinities : Egyptians, Babylonians, Medes, Persians, Assyrians and so forth.

Sad that people resort to such things. Hope the friends are being taken care of by their loving congregation friends.

Jehovah's Witnesses' buildings damaged
FOUR NEW CASES OF VANDALISM AFTER SUPREME COURT DECISION AGAINST JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 5 May 2017
 
In the night of 22 April 2017 in the city of Gukovo (Rostov province), unidentified persons damaged the building and grounds in which Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services. They broke a mail box, threw mud on the door, and crushed a fence.
 
In the night of 30 April 2017 in the city of Achinsk (Krasnoyarsk territory), one of the local residents who is hostile to the Jehovah's Witnesses broke a window in the building where Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services. On the next day believers asked him to stop doing such hooligan actions. However the local resident responded angrily and said that he will not stop doing what he is doing.
 
In the night of 30 April 2017 in the city of Penza, unidentified malicious persons broke into the territory of the building where Jehovah's Witnesses conducted worship services. They broke off a wicket gate and hung it on the arch over the place where it was installed.
 
In the night of 2 May 2017 in Kaliningrad, unidentified persons broke a window with a rock in the building where a family of Jehovah's Witnesses live. At the time, a relative of the believers was in the house. When the glass was broken, he was in shock for several minutes. Believers report that he always had peaceful, good-neighborly relations in the area. The only reason for what happened is hatred, he thinks, which was evoked by the Supreme Court's decision on the liquidation of Jehovah's Witnesses and inflamed by the news media. (tr. by PDS, posted 9 May 2017)
ALSO:
The manifestation of religious-motivated vandalism in the Tula region
May 9, 2017 May 5, 2017 in Novomoskovsk (Tula reg.) unknown broke into the yard of the building, which previously took place of worship of Jehovah's Witnesses, and struck on the door threatening inscription.
Motivated by religious intolerance action against Jehovah's Witnesses after frequent rendered April 20, 2017 decision of the Supreme Court of Russia on the Elimination of registered organizations of the religion.