bruceq

Blowing smoke then. You cannot make a robust defense, @bruceq. Perhaps someone else can help you. Anyone?

Why are you bringing this into the discussion?

It did not say a letter from us but "appearing" to be from us as someone claiming the interpreatational authority that God gave to those appointed by him.
by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
So the question would be "Who really is the Faithful and Discreet slave"?

It did not say a letter from us but "appearing" to be from us as someone claiming the interpreatational authority that God gave to those appointed by him.
by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
So the question would be "Who really is the Faithful and Discreet slave"?

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11 
ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view.
Rev. 6:4 "Take peace away from the EARTH" 

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11 
ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view.
Rev. 6:4 "Take peace away from the EARTH" 

Is the interpretation of Matthew 24 based on less likely, special definitions of Jehovah's Witnesses {minority view} Invisible parousia, Jesus King in 1914, God is not a Trinity, No immortal soul, Jehovah in NT...
OR on more likely common definitions of Christendom {Majority view} Visible parousia, Jesus King in 33 C.E or at birth, God is a Trinity, Soul is immortal, Jehovah not in NT...
What do you think?
  Would the true religion believe as the majority do on Mt. 24 or would they stand out as a minority interpretation - Does the Governing Body have the authority to interpret MT. 24 to us if what they say is at odds with Christendoms educated scholars and bloggers and the poster who says he has "special interpretation" !!! {see 7 posts down from this one if you don't believe me} yet his teachings are exactly as Christendom is  ? Mt. 7:13-23. Rev. 12:9. {Just because someone has studied flying does not mean he is authorized to fly the plane}. Heb. 13:17!!!
We are suppose to "get out of her my people" not go back to her my people. Rev 18:4.
 
 
 

Trial of Bible ends
VYBORG COURT RULES JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' BIBLE IS EXTREMIST LITERATURE
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 17 August 2017
 
Judge Dmitry Yurievich Grishin of the Vyborg city court, a kandidat of jurisprudence and former chairman of the department of civil law of the A.S. Pushkin Leningrad University, announced his decision: to grant the petition of the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor; to find "Sacred Scripture—New World Translation" extremist material; to find the brochures "The Bible and it Main Subject," "Science instead of the Bible?" and "How to Improve Health. Five Simple Rules" to be extremist materials; to confiscate the batch of the aforesaid literature. The court's decision has not taken effect and it may be appealed within thirty days. (tr. by PDS, posted 17 August 2017)
 
Also JW.ORG:
News Alerts
 
BREAKING NEWS | Russian Court Bans New World Translation
 
On August 17, 2017, the Vyborg City Court in Russia ruled to ban the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT). In Russia, it is illegal to ban a Bible. However, a court-appointed “expert study” claimed that the NWT is not a Bible. The decision to ban the NWT came even after the powerful testimony of experts and the fine argumentation of our brothers, proving undeniably that the NWT is a Bible. In spite of such obvious discrimination, Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide take comfort from Isaiah 40:8, “the word of our God endures forever.” We are appealing the decision.

Exactly! You get it. Not 1914 - and they so -called scholars use the same exact arguments you guys do against 1914. I'm not going to repeat their false teachings which have already been dealt with over and over again.

Not 1914 - and they so -called scholars use the same exact arguments you guys do against 1914.

Yes and also the Librarian is suppose to keep "certain" ones QUIET. Not you of course as neither of us talk much here and when we do it is 30 sec or less as it should be. 
ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view. 
I certainly hope so.

see above JW.ORG. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11    Perhaps you missed the explanation by the Faithful Slave of Jehovah's Witnesses.
The problem with Christendoms teachings is they often want just a verse without looking at the context of the entire Bible. And the fact that there is a faithful slave today to interpret it all for us not some bloggers. LOL 

What Does Bible Chronology Indicate About the Year 1914?
Audio recordings download options MP3
The Bible’s answer
Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.
Overview of the prophecy. God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.—Daniel 4:1, 10-16.
The prophecy’s initial fulfillment. The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:20-22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.—Daniel 4:34-36.
Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”—Daniel 2:31-44.
Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:30-33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.—Matthew 11:29.
What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent? In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.
What does the tree’s being chopped down mean? Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.—1 Chronicles 29:23.
What do the “seven times” represent? The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *—2 Kings 25:1, 8-10.
How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.
The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6,14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
 

Is the interpretation of Matthew 24 based on less likely, special definitions of Jehovah's Witnesses {minority view} Invisible parousia, Jesus King in 1914, God is not a Trinity, No immortal soul, Jehovah in NT...
OR on more likely common definitions of Christendom {Majority view} Visible parousia, Jesus King in 33 C.E or at birth, God is a Trinity, Soul is immortal, Jehovah not in NT...
What do you think?
  Would the true religion believe as the majority do on Mt. 24 or would they stand out as a minority interpretation - Does the Governing Body have the authority to interpret MT. 24 to us if what they say is at odds with Christendoms educated scholars and bloggers and the poster who says he has "special interpretation" !!! {see 7 posts down from this one if you don't believe me} yet his teachings are exactly as Christendom is  ? Mt. 7:13-23. Rev. 12:9. {Just because someone has studied flying does not mean he is authorized to fly the plane}. Heb. 13:17!!!
We are suppose to "get out of her my people" not go back to her my people. Rev 18:4.
 
 
 

The shriveled-up old biddy @The Librarian often makes pupils wash their mouths out with pages of her books. 
(Am I overdoing this? Vote it down and I will cease and desist for awhile - one mustn't be an annoyance -, depending upon who votes.)

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11 
ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view.
Rev. 6:4 "Take peace away from the EARTH" 

I "started with a question you did not answer: Why should we believe Christendoms interpretation of this over Jehovah's Witnesses?
  JW.ORG !!!
ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view.
Rev. 6:4 "Take peace away from the EARTH" 
 
 

I "started with a question you did not answer: Why should we believe Christendoms interpretation of this over Jehovah's Witnesses?
  JW.ORG !!!
ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view.
Rev. 6:4 "Take peace away from the EARTH" 
 
 

Interpretation does not come from your Bible interpretation or any of Christendoms bloggers here on this thread who claim to be a JW.
 Go to JW.ORG and find it. Im not going to argue about it sorry. 

All visions and dreams in Daniel are prophetic and have to do with the future as I recall - but there is only ONE (according to you), only ONE vision that was only contemporary (7 times) and has no future fulfillment??  ...........very inconsistent .... of Jehovah!
Daniel 12:4  says: But you, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Seal ALL books and then people will search to understand these prophecies closer to the time of fulfillment.)
We are going in circles - I quote a few  scriptures where it gives a 30 day month and then you say this is not so. You give LONG, complicated  explanations  -  to circumvent what is plainly stated in the Bible -  it is starting to sound more and more like a MYSTERY which only a few can understand - a teaching which Christendom loves so much..
I think all the friends on this blog would not even understand what the sacred secret of the Kingdom is (which Daniel talks about in several verses (Daniel 2:44; Daniel 7:13 + 14) if it was not for the slave distributing this knowledge free of charge. 
30 years ago most of Christendom did not accept that the Kingdom is a government but believed that it was a CONDITION of the heart.... and therefore would not accept any calculation of its timing ..... or contemplate when it would start ruling INVISIBLY.
They still do not have an idea when the first resurrection  takes place , and who these people are who have the first resurrection.... they do not give the "least of Christ's brothers" a drink or a kindness BUT rather oppose them. They think they will all go to heaven..... and earth will be DESTROYED.  They do not have a clue of the true purpose of God.... I spoke to them regularly until recently..... 
Well, CHRISTENDOM AND MUSLIMS BELIEVE MANY OF THE SAME THINGS - EVEN THEIR GOD IS JUST CALLED GOD OR LORD.  Their prophecies say that Jesus is coming back in the FLESH, it gives the place where he will descend and what he is going to look like.... He has a sword with which he is going to fight a literal battle - kill the anti-Christ.  It may satisfy your FLESHLY desire to see his flesh.... in the sky - with literal lightning ....and they also believe in immortality of the soul and they are all going to heaven.....and a literal war on the earth which will be lead by Jesus........Matt 24: 23 and 24 tells us there will be false Christs BUT they will not mislead the chosen ones.  Further look at REV 19: 
Rev 19:  Also, the armies that were in HEAVEN were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15  And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword,+ that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron.+ He treads too the winepress+ of the anger of the wrath of God+ the Almighty. 16  And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of* kings and Lord of lords.+ 17  I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds+ that fly in mid heaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18  that YOU may eat the fleshy+ parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders* and the fleshy parts of strong men+ and the fleshy parts of horses+ and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.” 19  And I saw the wild beast+ and the kings+ of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war+ with the one seated on the horse+ and with his army. 20  And the wild beast+ was caught, and along with it the false prophet+ that performed in front of it the signs+ with which he misled those who received the mark+ of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.+ While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with Sulphur
To me - these are heavenly armies behind Jesus..... and the 'wild beast and false prophet' are symbols which represent parts of fleshly, worldly humankind. 
This WAR takes place AFTER  Revelation 12: 7-12  (the birth of the Kingdom and authority given to Christ) and satan is thrown out of heaven.    ..... and it happens AFTER a short time left is declared.
I cannot eat your scroll - it is bitter in my mouth - in fact its flavor is false.
 
 

So please tell me HOW this proves the Bible to be INCORRECT -  which in every instance gives a ROUNDED number of 30 days for a month (so 29 days or 30 days does not really matter because the Bible ONLY  refers to 30 days in a month) - a BIBLICAL month......  Rev 11:2+3.....(42 months is 1260 days).  Weeping for 30 days - is a month, they mourned Moses for 30 days. The month was counted from new moon till new moon - and the days that Noah counted are given as 5 months to be 150 days. All are consistent.  So if Jehovah wanted us to count a Biblical/or prophetic month as 30 rounded days - then so be it.   Your claim that you are defending the "Bible" is only a claim.    
The formal moon calendar was only set in stone some years after Jesus.  So today - we can speculate on the various methods they used to reconcile the year made up of 29/30-day moon-months with the solar year. None of us were there ........and be careful of Rabbinical writings.......go find out more about the 'holy' Mishnah/Talmud and "most holy" Kabbalah........you are in for a nasty shock!       When in doubt - I stick with the Bible.
So, all this speculation and calculations still does not CHANGE the words in the bible which refers to a month ONLY as 30 days. Why did Jehovah not object to this being written down by his inspired writers of the scripture when he knew it is not absolutely accurate in the minutest detail? .... it was to have consistency when we work out prophecies - because as you rightly showed - the moon calendar has its inconsistencies.
 
 

JWI teachings about 1914 and eschatology are identical  to the teachings of the churches of Christendom. Instead of "getting out of her my people" he and his followers have "gone back to her my people". Rev 18. Some of them say they do not want to have the authority of the Governing Body telling them interpretations of the Bible and therefore have to "share with them in their sins [or mistakes}. But I would rather share in the mistakes of Jehovah's people [mistakes Jehovah allows for a reason] than "share in the sins of Babylon the Great. That is my choice.
He even stated haughtily [with a name like "insider" do you expect him to be humble?} on Saturday the 19th that he has "special interpretation". That his interpretation is correct compared to the Governing Body!!! Obviously there is no reasoning with someone who has strayed that far away from Jehovah's Organization and believes as apostate Christendom does about 1914 and many other doctrines as indicated in his voluminous writings. {which also indicates how he feels superior to others].

Was it not the role of the ancient Jewish librarian to track days, months, years, and to punish noncompliance with detention? @The Librarian

Trial of Bible ends
VYBORG COURT RULES JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' BIBLE IS EXTREMIST LITERATURE
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 17 August 2017
 
Judge Dmitry Yurievich Grishin of the Vyborg city court, a kandidat of jurisprudence and former chairman of the department of civil law of the A.S. Pushkin Leningrad University, announced his decision: to grant the petition of the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor; to find "Sacred Scripture—New World Translation" extremist material; to find the brochures "The Bible and it Main Subject," "Science instead of the Bible?" and "How to Improve Health. Five Simple Rules" to be extremist materials; to confiscate the batch of the aforesaid literature. The court's decision has not taken effect and it may be appealed within thirty days. (tr. by PDS, posted 17 August 2017)
 
Also JW.ORG:
News Alerts
 
BREAKING NEWS | Russian Court Bans New World Translation
 
On August 17, 2017, the Vyborg City Court in Russia ruled to ban the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT). In Russia, it is illegal to ban a Bible. However, a court-appointed “expert study” claimed that the NWT is not a Bible. The decision to ban the NWT came even after the powerful testimony of experts and the fine argumentation of our brothers, proving undeniably that the NWT is a Bible. In spite of such obvious discrimination, Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide take comfort from Isaiah 40:8, “the word of our God endures forever.” We are appealing the decision.

BIBLICAL REASONS NOT TO TIE REVELATION CHAPTER TWELVE TO THE YEAR 1914
There are a few more obvious Biblical reasons that many have noticed already.
One is the fact that the woman who is ostensibly about to give birth to the kingdom is depicted as very vulnerable, needing to be hidden away, hiding from a much more powerful dragon.
*** re chap. 27 p. 177 par. 3 God’s Kingdom Is Born! ***
The woman John here sees is . . . . Jehovah’s universal organization of spirit creatures . . . . Jehovah’s magnificent heavenly organization!
If this woman is God's ENTIRE heavenly organization, then was there ever a time when God's ENTIRE heavenly organization was so vulnerable that it had to be hidden away so that Satan could not devour it? Remember that this is after Jesus had been make King of kings and Lord of lords back in 33 CE according to the Bible, and after all authority had been given him, and after he had been made to sit at the right hand of Majesty, and after he had been raised up in power back to the position he had before the creation of the systems of things. (Heb 1:3) This Jesus, was now the reflection of God's glory, and as of 33 CE, according to the verse in Hebrews, he "sustains all things by the word of his power."
So are we saying that this Jesus who is part of God's entire heavenly organization in 1914 was so vulnerable that he had to be hidden along with the rest of Jehovah's universal organization of spirit creatures? Did Satan drag a third of the angels down and cast them down to the earth in 1914?
*** re chap. 27 p. 179 par. 9 God’s Kingdom Is Born! ***
Mention of “a third” would emphasize that a considerable number of angels have been misled by Satan.
Of course, we place this event back at the time of the Flood. (So much for the claim that the events depicted as happening in this chapter of Revelation cannot possibly have occurred in the past):
*** re chap. 27 p. 179 par. 9 God’s Kingdom Is Born! ***
Satan also cast them down to the earth. This no doubt refers to Noah’s day before the Flood, when Satan induced the disobedient sons of God to go down to earth and cohabit with the daughters of men. As a punishment, these “angels that sinned” have been thrown by God into the prisonlike condition called Tartarus.
So, Satan is here depicted as casting down a third of the angels and standing before the woman ready to devour her. If we are right that this is Jehovah's entire heavenly organization, then this one dragon, Satan, is now ready to devour Jesus, and at least two-thirds of the remaining angels. And now he has to do it alone because he just cast down that third of his "misled" angels to the earth. If he had only remembered to keep his new minions up there in heaven with him! At any rate, he is outnumbered at least ...
(Revelation 5:11) 11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads [footnote: 10,000 times 10,000] and thousands of thousands.
So 10,000 x 10,000 is 100 Million!!  If myriads, plural, is at least 20,000, then Satan is outnumbered 20,000x20,000, or at least 400,000,000 to one. But of course, these angels on Satan's side are here battling with him. Tartarus must have very porous borders!
That was purposely ridiculous to show that our current explanation doesn't make any sense.
And yet, it makes perfect sense if we consider the one time when the woman, Jehovah's bride, was Israel. The most vulnerable time for the outworking of Jehovah's purpose through his Son was when his Son was made flesh, and born of a woman, the offspring of David, BEFORE he was with POWER declared God's Son by means of resurrection from the dead.

(Romans 1: 1-4) . . . God’s good news, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who came to be from the offspring of David according to the flesh, 4 but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord.
We know that Satan was behind the extra demonic activity on earth at the time of Jesus' ministry. We also know that Israel itself is depicted as God's woman, and even the symbol of the sun, moon and 12 stars were already a part of that symbolism:
(Genesis 37:9, 10) . . .This time the sun and the moon and 11 stars were bowing down to me.” 10 Then he related it to his father as well as his brothers, and his father rebuked him and said to him: “What is the meaning of this dream of yours? Am I as well as your mother and your brothers really going to come and bow down to the earth to you?. . .
Satan did try to devour Jesus at the most vulnerable time: BEFORE he was given even more power and authority than what he had before he was born as a human on earth.
(Matthew 2:13) 13 After they had departed, look! Jehovah’s angel appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying: “Get up, take the young child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I give you word, for Herod is about to search for the young child to kill him.. . .
(Matthew 4:1) . . .Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. . . . Then the Devil left him, and look! angels came and began to minister to him.
Also, if this explanation is possible, it would be Israel that was fed for three and one-half years (1,260 days) which turns out to be exactly the amount of time that we believe Jesus went to feed the lost house of Israel in the time of his ministry. Not that this is the explanation either, but what would be the reason that God's universal organization of angels needed to be fed in the wilderness? And why would they need to flee after Jesus had already been snatched away to God's throne? Was the kingdom in heaven still so weak in 1914?
(Revelation 12:5-6) 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days.
Another point I have heard (although I don't think it's very valid or relevant) is that the woman is in birth pangs because she is about to give birth to the Kingdom in 1914. Yet the scriptural references about the birth pangs we use elsewhere (Matthew 24, 1 Thess 5) are always used in order to speak of the time after the birth of the kingdom in 1914, and a time closer to the final end judgment event. It's as if the child is born and the birth pains come after that event and not before.