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bruceq

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  1. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    According to that line of reasoning no one on earth has authority to interpret Scripture since all are sinners. So if everyone is wrong what is the point of being in any religion at all. I believe that Jesus is the head of the Congregation and he has the authority and has given the authority to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to interpret things like the meaning of 1914 or things related to chronology, Gentile Times or anything else. Jehovah has not given interpretational authority to bloggers on the Internet anymore than He would to Korah and his 250 rebels against the interpretational authority of Moses to speak for God.
       Jehovah has always led his people with imperfect people. Moses was about to lead the Israelites OUT of Egypt yet he "turned around" and went back in the opposite direction! The Egyptians thought they were "wandering in confusion" and even some of God's people said "What have YOU done to us by leading us out of Egypt? - That was said to who? Moses an 80 year old man with probably poor eyesight. {Ex. 14:11}. Some did not realize the big picture here. That Jehovah was the one leading the Congregation and if he wants us to do or believe in something "wrong" then is it not up to Him. Perhaps you do not have all the facts. such as the fact that Jehovah was setting a trap. Or the fact that Christendom's teachings and interpretations such as  chronology could be in error.
       So of course we do not have all the facts about 1914 or God's Name in the NT or any number of other teachings but sometimes Jehovah has reasons for what He does and no "scholar" will be able to figure that out with any kind of "chronology" Was it right or wrong for Moses to go in the "opposite" direction? We must be humble enough to realize that Jesus has been appointed head of the Congregation and He will direct it in any way He wishes and therefore we are to "Be obedient to those taking the lead among you and be submissive." Heb 13:17. 
     
     Some on this blog may think they should have "personal Christian freedom of interpretation" such as Christendom has. "Is it ONLY by Moses that Jehovah has spoken? Has he not also spoken through us? But remember when you say such things "Jehovah was listening" Num 12:1,2. And even Korah said the same idea: "We have had enough of you! The whole assembly is holy, ALL of them, and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah? Num 16:1-3. And  why did Aaron get a free pass when he got it wrong several times ? Seems like a double-standard if they didn't have consequences for teaching incorrect ideas to millions of others. But who are we to question Jehovah's way of running HIS Congregation back then OR today.
     Do You Appreciate Jehovahs Representatives.mp3
       God's people once believed the "superior authorities" were the human Governments but then in 1929 "changed" to Jehovah and Jesus! It was the "opposite direction" Was that wrong? The brothers had no idea a war was coming ten years later and this changed teaching protected them and enabled them to win dozens of Supreme Court victories...and then changed back and improved to relative subjection to human Governments. Did the head of the Congregation Jesus have a reason for those changes in doctrine?  Who are we to question His authority to change anything? Could changes be for something we do not understand or something in the future we cannot possibly see yet? If something "doesn't make any sense" then there is probably a reason for that.  LOYALTY  is sticking to someone out of love even if we do not have all the answers and even if they are imperfect.

    Your browser does not support the HTML5 audio tag.
    This talk will bring shivers up your spine! {1914 Meps...Supreme Court....} Jehovah really is in control!
  2. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    Yes it is obvious that Jesus is the head of the Congregation and we should never question what he does either in the First Century or today.
         As regards all the arguments by the poster about the parousia it is obvious that the truth is "simple" for Jesus himself defines the meaning of parousia not as a moment in time such as a judgement day but rather as the "DAYS of Noah" a period of time where people would do normal things but ignore the "signs" around them. Mt. 24
    Luke 17:26 "presence...DAYS of the SON OF MAN"
       That Jesus’ pa·rou·siʹa is not simply a momentary coming followed by a rapid departure but is, rather, a presence covering a period of time is also indicated by his words recorded at Matthew 24:37-39 and Luke 17:26-30. Here “the days of Noah” are compared to “the presence of the Son of man” (“the days of the Son of man,” in Luke’s account). Jesus, therefore, does not limit the comparison just to the coming of the Deluge as a final climax during Noah’s days, though he shows that his own “presence” or “days” will see a similar climax. Since “the days of Noah” actually covered a period of years, there is basis for believing that the foretold “presence [or “days”] of the Son of man” would likewise cover a period of some years, being climaxed by the destruction of those not giving heed to the opportunity afforded them to seek deliverance.
     
    In regards to all your other questions you posted about Jehovah's Witnesses please hear the talk below.
      

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  3. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in NEWSWEEK : WHAT DOES TRUMP THINK ABOUT PUTIN’S WAR ON RELIGION?   
    WHAT DOES TRUMP THINK ABOUT PUTIN’S WAR ON RELIGION?
    BY ROMAN LUNKIN ON 8/12/17 AT 12:20 AM This article first appeared on the Wilson Center site.
    Just ten years ago, it would have been hard to imagine that the crackdown on civic activism in Russia would target religious communities, not just NGOs. And yet it is happening.
    The Russian state persecutes Baptists, Pentecostals, and Adventists and closes down Orthodox parishes that are not part of the Moscow Patriarchate.
    For the first time since the Soviet Union collapsed, preachers are now being fined for proclaiming GodÂ’s word outside church buildings.
    And a recent Supreme Court decision has opened the door to liquidating JehovahÂ’s Witnesses communities in Russia.
    “Traditional” versus “Nontraditional” Religions
    Russia divides all faiths into “traditional” and “nontraditional.” This concept, while absent from the Russian Law on Religious Freedom (although mentioned in the law’s preamble), has been introduced under pressure from the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) and Patriarch Kirill personally.
    Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism are deemed “traditional,” while Old Believers, Catholics, various Protestant denominations, and many others are not.
    A member of the 'Union of Orthodox Banner-Bearers' takes part in a demonstration against the movie 'Matilda' in front of the Church of the Resurrection in Moscow on August 1, 2017. 'Matilda', a Russian movie about a love story between the last Russian Tsar Nikolay II and the ballerina Mathilda-Marie Feliksovna Kschessinskaya set for theater release in October, is believed by many Russians to insult the monarchy and offend religious sentiment.MLADEN ANTONOV/AFP/GETTY
    The concept of traditional religions not only pits worshippers against each other, it also ignores the religious diversity of Russia. Today there are some 15 million practicing Orthodox believers in Russia, 10 million Muslims, 3 million Protestants, 500,000 Buddhists, 200,000 Jews, 175,000 JehovahÂ’s Witnesses, 100,000 Hindus, and 100,000 followers of other religious faiths (e.g., there are an estimated 10,000 Mormons in Russia).
    The ROC has usurped the right to a close relationship with the government and accuses Catholics and Protestants of proselytizing in the territory that it considers its own. As for Muslims, the ROC accepts as “traditional” only those who are loyal to the government.
    The ROC’s concern is understandable. According to the Russian Ministry of Justice, ROC organizations are the most numerous in the country (around 16,000 communities), while Protestants and Muslims are second and third (5,000–6,000 communities each).
    However, polls show that Protestants and Muslims may be twice as numerous as official figures suggest. For example, evangelicals are now the second largest Christian denomination in Russia after Orthodox Christians in terms of numbers and presence throughout the country.
    In fact, in many regions of Siberia and the Far East, the number of Protestant communities and active parishioners is higher than the number of practicing Orthodox believers. In light of this, Patriarch Kirill has repeatedly urged the authorities in the Far East to “fight against sects” and support the Orthodox projects.
    Tightening the Screws
    The path toward tightening the screws on various non-traditional religions began in 2012, with the “foreign agent” law limiting the activity of foreign-funded noncommercial organizations. Furthermore, the law on meetings and demonstrations was also tightened. And in 2015 a new directive was introduced specifying that all religious groups must inform authorities of their existence.
    Then, in June 2016, the State Duma adopted a series of laws known collectively as the Yarovaya Law. Named after Duma Deputy Irina Yarovaya, who initiated it, the law amends Russian public safety and anti-extremism legislation.
    The part of the law that has already come into force and has received the broadest coverage consists of the statutes regulating liability for failure to report “extremist activity”—a very broadly defined set of activities under Russian law, ranging from calls for violence to the vague “incitement of racial, nationalist and religious hatred” and “propaganda of exceptionalism” based on religion or nationality.
    The part of the Yarovaya Law that has received much less attention is the provision imposing new restrictions on missionary work. The law now imposes a fine of 50,000 rubles on a private citizen for illegal preaching and up to 1 million rubles on a religious organization.
    Illegal preaching may mean preaching in a building that is not designated for such purposes and lacks proper signage. As a result, the police and the prosecutor’s office now consider the activity of religious groups lacking official registration as illegal—a change from the recent past.
    Targeting JehovahÂ’s Witnesses
    The recent court proceedings against JehovahÂ’s Witnesses are a case in point. The campaign against JehovahÂ’s Witnesses began in 2009, during the still relatively liberal Dmitry MedvedevÂ’s premiership.
    In a number of cases the courts, relying on poorly and unprofessionally conducted evaluations, concluded that Jehovah’s Witnesses’ literature could be defined as “extremist,” referring as it did to the faith as the only true faith.
    The adoption of the Yarovaya Law, therefore, opened the door to liquidating Jehovah’s Witnesses communities on the basis of their possessing “extremist” literature.
    On April 20, 2017, on the basis of the totality of these cases, the Russian Supreme Court ruled to liquidate the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses Management Center and all of the regional organizations. On July 17, 2017, a Supreme Court panel declined the JehovahÂ’s WitnessesÂ’ appeal, and the decision entered into force.
    The decision means prohibition of activity for over 400 JehovahÂ’s Witnesses organizations all over Russia and criminal prosecutions of more than 170,000 believers if they continue to gather and read faith publications and the Bible in their specific translation. (There are more than 2,000 groups engaged in this activity in Russia.)
    On top of that, because Jehovah’s Witnesses organizations are now judged “extremist,” the state is confiscating the profession’s assets: 118 buildings in fifty-seven regions whose total value is 1.9 billion rubles.
    For the West, it was specifically the prohibition against JehovahÂ’s Witnesses that came to symbolize pointless religious discrimination in Russia and a drastic reduction of religious freedoms in the country. The EUÂ’s Office of Foreign Policy, the U.S. State Department, and the U.S. Helsinki Committee have all broadly criticized the move and called on Russia to rescind it.
    On top of that, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses has filed a complaint with the European Court of Human Rights. It is clear in advance that the judgment wonÂ’t be in RussiaÂ’s favor. Taking into account the losses sustained by the faithful, the fine that the Strasbourg court will impose on Russia for the benefit of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses may reach astronomical heights.
    The fact is, authoritiesÂ’ fight against nontraditional religions and religious denominations, which they peg as weird and scary sects, takes ugly, almost caricature forms.
    Journalists, politicians, and Orthodox activists accuse those of other faiths of activities that constitute the core religious activities of all faiths, including the ROC itself: collecting donations, engaging in prayers with emotional overtones, and instructing followers, including children, in the tenets of the faith. In the context of the massive anti-West hysteria, xenophobia, and search for spies, all of these generally normal activities become a crime.
    Most politicians and public figures, both conservative and liberal, readily jump on the bandwagon, portraying unfamiliar “sects” as threatening to the secular state and even citizens’ psychological health. And the media ignore the persecution of those targeted under the Yarovaya Law.
    There are now more than 100 court cases challenging the imposition of fines against religious communities and individual faithful, yet they are proceeding unnoticed by the general public.
    Who Benefits?
    Many assume that the suppression of religious dissent automatically benefits the ROC. But that is not necessarily the case. Representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate are torn by irreconcilable contradictions.
    On the one hand, there are those who would like to prohibit all sects legislatively and in that way eliminate all competitors. (They are particularly troubled by the evangelicals in the Far East, who at this point exceed the number of the Orthodox.)
    On the other hand, many experts note that as soon as the word “sect” is introduced into the law, half the Orthodox communities could be prohibited. Rank-and-file priests and believers have stated that the anti-missionary statutes of the Yarovaya Law could also be used to prevent Orthodox sermons and missions among youth.
    In Russia, the gap is growing between the discriminated-against non-Orthodox Christians and the Orthodox, between the ROC bureaucracy and Orthodox activists of different persuasions, between the ROCÂ’s leadership and the pro-democracy-minded part of society, between the desires of law enforcement organs and the aims of the missionaries of different churches, including the ROC.
    These conflicts are getting sharper because Russian society betrays more civility than the Russian state. Ordinary Russians are much more tolerant of those professing different beliefs than are the police and the prosecutorÂ’s office.
    And the trend toward aligning the governmentÂ’s policy with the interests of the ROC produces a boomerang effect: civil society criticizes priests and bishops from the Orthodox standpoint, not from an atheistic one.
    This is why the state has decided to safeguard itself against independent religious authority by heavily regulating it.
    Roman Lunkin is Senior Researcher at Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences, head of the Center for Religious Studies in the Institute of Europe (Russian Academy of Sciences), a member of Russian team of Keston Institute (Oxford, UK) project “Encyclopedia of religious life in Russia Today”, editor-in-chief of the web-portal “Religion and Law” (www.sclj.ru), a public policy scholar in the Woodrow Wilson Center and the Kennan Institute (2011) and The Galina Starovoitova Fellowship scholar of the Kennan Institute (2017).
  4. Thanks
    bruceq got a reaction from The Librarian in Blasphemy laws worldwide: A report from the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom   
    By Eugene Volokh August 10 
    From the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom report. See here — looks quite broad and detailed, though, as the report notes, much turns not just on the easily visible statutes but also on the harder-to-find prosecutions and the still harder to identify fear of prosecution.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/08/10/blasphemy-laws-worldwide-a-report-from-the-u-s-commission-on-international-religious-freedom/?utm_term=.6a791a9009ee#comments   http://www.uscirf.gov/news-room/in-the-media          
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  5. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to David Normand in Jehovah’s Witnesses applaud 10 year old girl for shunning her sister   
    Jay, you apparently do not understand the reason for disfellowshipping (shunning) It is never for the actions you mentioned. It is always for the unrepentant attitude of the individual. Also, by shunning the individual they may decide to repent and come back to Jehovah's organization. Also, by disfellowshipping the individual it helps to keep the congregation clean by keeping that person's attitude to spread to others in the congregation.
    Also, perhaps you are not familiar with interviews on the stage. They could have been applauding the act of her shunning her sister as you suggested, but more likely they were applauding her act of getting up in front of the audience and relaying her experience. After all, when she finished speaking the speaker said thank you for sharing that with us, he did not say thank you for shunning your sister as you would have us believe. Also, this is only part of the interview. We don't know if there were any follow up questions to her nor do we know what the subject was for the interview in the first place. Yes, I am sure that most probably agreed with her actions, but you make it seem that the ONLY reason they applauded was because of her actions with regard her sister. I think you miss the point and do her and the audience a disservice when you denigrate both her actions and the audience in such a way. 
    Lastly, what is the date (EDIT 11/09/2017) It is not November (or September european format)
    BTW, why is this heartbreaking? Did you speak with the sister to see how she is dealing with being shunned. We don't really know when the video was shot. Could have been this year, could have been a decade ago. The girl being shunned could have come back to Jehovah since then, or not. Either way, little Melody is following the directions given by the congregation shepherds and as such is doing what Jehovah wants her to. Both her and her sister can benefit by doing that. 
     
  6. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to John Houston in 144,000   
    Then you did not understand my answer. Jehovah did not chose the first come first serve on Christians, when it comes with those who are ones sealed as corulers with Christ. It seems to be everyone's thinking that all Christians who DIED from the death of Jesus were in line for this "gift" , whereas scripture clearly tells us that Jehovah makes the choice of the 144000, who would be with his Son in the heavenly kingdom. His choice, not their deaths, or martyrdom. So no matter how many from after Jesus' death until now Jehovah will only choose 144000. And he has not finished with that yet. That number will not be completed until Jesus gathers those who are alive to heaven. Any who are chosen could not be sealed, so things could change. Dealing with imperfect humans. Any of the 3000 who were baptized were not all faithful until death, correct?  That is why your reasoning is flawed.
  7. Thanks
    bruceq reacted to bruceq in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    According to that line of reasoning no one on earth has authority to interpret Scripture since all are sinners. So if everyone is wrong what is the point of being in any religion at all. I believe that Jesus is the head of the Congregation and he has the authority and has given the authority to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to interpret things like the meaning of 1914 or things related to chronology, Gentile Times or anything else. Jehovah has not given interpretational authority to bloggers on the Internet anymore than He would to Korah and his 250 rebels against the interpretational authority of Moses to speak for God.
       Jehovah has always led his people with imperfect people. Moses was about to lead the Israelites OUT of Egypt yet he "turned around" and went back in the opposite direction! The Egyptians thought they were "wandering in confusion" and even some of God's people said "What have YOU done to us by leading us out of Egypt? - That was said to who? Moses an 80 year old man with probably poor eyesight. {Ex. 14:11}. Some did not realize the big picture here. That Jehovah was the one leading the Congregation and if he wants us to do or believe in something "wrong" then is it not up to Him. Perhaps you do not have all the facts. such as the fact that Jehovah was setting a trap. Or the fact that Christendom's teachings and interpretations such as  chronology could be in error.
       So of course we do not have all the facts about 1914 or God's Name in the NT or any number of other teachings but sometimes Jehovah has reasons for what He does and no "scholar" will be able to figure that out with any kind of "chronology" Was it right or wrong for Moses to go in the "opposite" direction? We must be humble enough to realize that Jesus has been appointed head of the Congregation and He will direct it in any way He wishes and therefore we are to "Be obedient to those taking the lead among you and be submissive." Heb 13:17. 
     
     Some on this blog may think they should have "personal Christian freedom of interpretation" such as Christendom has. "Is it ONLY by Moses that Jehovah has spoken? Has he not also spoken through us? But remember when you say such things "Jehovah was listening" Num 12:1,2. And even Korah said the same idea: "We have had enough of you! The whole assembly is holy, ALL of them, and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah? Num 16:1-3. And  why did Aaron get a free pass when he got it wrong several times ? Seems like a double-standard if they didn't have consequences for teaching incorrect ideas to millions of others. But who are we to question Jehovah's way of running HIS Congregation back then OR today.
     Do You Appreciate Jehovahs Representatives.mp3
       God's people once believed the "superior authorities" were the human Governments but then in 1929 "changed" to Jehovah and Jesus! It was the "opposite direction" Was that wrong? The brothers had no idea a war was coming ten years later and this changed teaching protected them and enabled them to win dozens of Supreme Court victories...and then changed back and improved to relative subjection to human Governments. Did the head of the Congregation Jesus have a reason for those changes in doctrine?  Who are we to question His authority to change anything? Could changes be for something we do not understand or something in the future we cannot possibly see yet? If something "doesn't make any sense" then there is probably a reason for that.  LOYALTY  is sticking to someone out of love even if we do not have all the answers and even if they are imperfect.

    Your browser does not support the HTML5 audio tag.
    This talk will bring shivers up your spine! {1914 Meps...Supreme Court....} Jehovah really is in control!
  8. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    In Western countries it is easier to have your own opinion and just get on with life because you will not pose a threat to anyone else's spirituality in the congregation.  Since we have one family in the entire world we must take care not to stumble others. It is our duty to be responsible towards others and use our words only in an upbuilding way. The "idea" for the discussion is not the problem - it is the underlying attitude behind the promotion of a new idea that can become the problem
    Satan started in this way - promoted a new idea..... and it just happened to be a treasonous one.  We all like to think we are intellectual and smart and we like to give ourselves the "permission" to discuss intellectually with others a subject -  but it is mainly to satisfy a selfish desire.
    I happen to have lived in Africa 45 years..... I understand that elders have to be vigilant to new ideas that may be corrupting.  Education is often limited and tribal ideas still flourish..... politics and tribal issues easily influence people.  I now again heard of brothers that were reproved......because they do not "see" the implications of what they do.  I  now also work in Middle Eastern communities which is the total opposite.  To say something against Mohammad is treason and punishable by death.
    We have a much more reasonable approach - to allow free thought but to be watchful for spreading of contentious ideas. 
    Sadly, I have lost some friends and a family member to apostasy.....I know the signs and the pattern of behavior.   It usually starts with a 'brilliant new way of looking at a subject....... then the person becomes totally obsessive about it..... then the person tries to have others agree with them and the strange thing is - they do not stop ...... they go on and on......they cannot help themselves....there is an uncanny obsessiveness about it.........then they turn nasty against the "slave" when they are called in and reproved... and then become a rebel against authority in the organization and then some go on to extend their activities into activism to the point where they malign the "slave" and  organization.
    I have seen on these pages here that the 70 years in captivity was questioned;  I have seen on these pages that a date (607 BCE) was questioned (while I gave very good reasons why it is a valid date for the beginning of the trampling by the nations);  I have seen the 1914 was questioned and the Parousia.....  I can go on and on....You see - when one does not accept the one idea - then it leads to so many other things that are not accepted and "questioned".
    I have seen the "OCD"  which is so strong that a person will spend hours and hours of their life to just focus on this "one" subject and basically cannot go on with other activities  - like being an active part of the congregation and spend much time in preaching This to me is a "flag" that all is not "kosher" - I do not care how open minded and spiritual you say you are. - this is a flag  I know the spreading of new "ideas" and the compulsion which drives it.
    As I said before ...... If you do not believe that Jesus is ruling invisible in heaven now and he started ruling in 1914.  What are you doing in this organization?  because you cannot be trusted to go out in field service and teach the truth in an "unhypocritical " way.   I would not trust such a one - and I am not and elder and never will be.  
    So, I can only say - the new way of looking at these dates is not the problem to me - it is the obsessiveness with it - which is.  It is as though this drives the person and all his social contacts....to this point of discussion. And what better place can one find than a forum like this?
     
  9. Like
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    Who is the slave.... to give food at proper time.  You either believe they are the appointed slave to give food at proper time or you don't.  Simple.  Your words and actions will prove what you think....One must be prepared to step back and let your opinions take second place.
    As someone said earlier - if interpretation were given to everyone - we would have 8 million different interpretations wouldn't we? As each person thinks they can serve better and have more of Jehovah's Spirit to interpret what they find.  Our final test (I think) will come when the slave is attacked in a most vicious way and false information spread about them to deceive and take Witnesses away from our most basic beliefs such as not voting, neutrality etc.
    I also think there is a difference  between having confidence/trust in Jehovah and his abilities to lead; and personal humility.  I think that very few people work on the teaching of Christ that we should lessen ourselves and be prepared to suffer for it as he did. Most Witnesses need to work on this.  Moses had to spend 40 years of his life with SHEEP!  Intellectual pursuit ?  Naa....  he had to learn to trust Jehovah completely.   Then only - was he ready to lead Jehovah's people in true humility of spirit.  All that fancy education in Pharaoh's palace was useless. Joseph spent 13 years in a prison.... (he really had to trust in Jehovah -  I would have given up by year 3)..... Must have been pretty nasty in there.  No human rights.... etc.
    I wanted to mention that if the Sumerian chronology is out - then you start at a very rocky basis for the other dynasties which come after.... and some of them overlapped and ran simultaneously. Perfect clarity and "absolute" is not the words I would use to describe the DATES for these dynasties.... Very skeptical....
    I mentioned my book to demonstrate that it is not important what we achieve in this world.....  at present I am too busy in the field in any case..... but that we sometimes have to step back and be happy with being a no-body and not achieving anything of great significance!  I have lost all ambition regarding this world and since I did that I am extremely happy!   I was raised in an extremely ambitious family and it took a long time to get rid of this trait.  Like a jack-in-the box- it jumps out sometimes and I have to push it back in.  One can even be ambitious in the truth - to stand out....... all of us should investigate ourselves to see if that spark of putting ourselves in front and grudging others a place in the sun is still part of our personality.  I do not count my value in how many people I helped get in the truth, how many studies at one time, and how many seeds I sowed.....  I just keep at the job and wait on Jehovah.... and the peace it brings is so uncluttered!
    If all of us had a waiting attitude (while doing what Jehovah requires from us) most things usually sorts itself out.... and there are always adjustments in the teachings to help us stay faithful to Jehovah...... is this not after all the main goal of all of us? ..... to stay faithful?
     
     
  10. Like
    bruceq reacted to TrueTomHarley in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    I think it is an appeal that congregational unity is more important than individual opinion about doctrine.
    Whenever the Governing Body issues direction on any doctrinal point, it may be that you, as a diligent student, noticed that point some time ago. If this was the world of churches, you would have gone out and started your own religion over it. How do you think there came to be so many sects and divisions among Christianity?
    Instead, you essentially 'sit' on your opinion. Maybe the theocratic organization will come around to it someday. Maybe they will even in some way notice your expertise and seek you out on that account. At any rate, the responsibility is theirs, not yours.
    It's a little dicey putting such opinion out there publicly because countless persons latch on whose only goal is to thwart Jehovah's Witnesses and what they stand for. Really - do you think the ones hostile would all be placated if the WBTS came around to a new opinion on just this one point? 
    Still, as has been pointed out, not everyone with a different view of chronology has ill intent toward Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe there is something to be said for the fact that we, too, acknowledge different views exist and they are not categorically wrong just because we did not say it first.
    None of this is to be harsh to JWI. He is smart regarding these matters of chronology and I am not. It is easy for me to say 'zip it' because I don't know anything. I don't think he is writing here to gain disciples for himself, as some have accused. I think, rather, that he does not want to see theocratic interests take it on the chin because of a wrong understanding. One can hardly say that the organization has never been wrong before. He is just exploring ideas and I like that. But I am not sure it does not stir up more dissension than it is worth, which is not good. Ultimately, publishing doctrinal light is the responsibility of someone else.
    I haven't figured this out yet. I probably will not succeed in doing so.
     
     
     
  11. Thanks
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    I think you keep on trying to prove you are right because you are not happy with what you have in the truth.  Why spend hours trying to get someone to agree with you.  What is the purpose of it?   If hypothetically I agree with you - then what will the next step be for us?  We go and make our own happy little group separate from other Witnesses - and pat ourselves on the back that we are smarter than the slave? or what?
    It has nothing to do with being smart or scholarly or even being RIGHT - it has to do with recognizing Jehovah and the channel he is using to preach the Kingdom as the only hope for mankind.  I honestly believe that we must have Jehovah's spirit to stay connected with Him and stay in the truth.  I have enough knowledge of other history to firmly believe that WW1 was a major change in world affairs and that the year 537BCE is a reasonably good year (take a year of two) for the building work to restart in Jerusalem......and this will easily bring the date of Jerusalem's fall to 607 (70 years in Babylon ) - which makes 1914 not a mirage at all! 
    And the other arguments that Jehovah will not use a wicked king and his 7 periods of madness as a symbol of the inhumane nations ruling the earth until Jesus kingdom starts to rule does not tread water at all.  Jehovah used prophets whose wives were unfaithful to illustrate the situation that his people were in..... Yes I have seen the things you took a lot of time to write and I honestly do not think it is worth my time to reply because  think that you are determined to promote your own way of thinking......  
    It so happens that I do not agree with you.  In your mind you are the expert on this.   So be the expert and where will it get you? You need to serve Jehovah together with his servants or stay behind.  You need to be actively helping others to come closer to Jehovah - but with this expert fault finding scholarship you will not have enough time or enough of Jehovah's spirit to do this.
    I learnt Jehovah's name, the fact that the immortality of the soul is a lie from satan, that Jesus really died for me (soul died) and that Jesus is not God - I learnt all from the Witnesses.  There is no other religion which stands up for the vindication of Jehovah's name like the slave does.  In fact our persecution will start because we proclaim this name and took it for ourselves to be identified by...
    Most churches accept the name Jesus but not Jehovah's name.  Even Muslims accept a form of Jesus.... so this should tell you to appreciate the fact that Jehovah in his graciousness allowed both of us to be part of this group of people. ..... While it is good to investigate what you believe so you can stay strong - one should not go beyond/ or brazenly go ahead - where is the unity in that?  I have on occasion not agreed with small things and later came to this conclusion:-  it sorts itself out......  The really important stuff is all there and is understood....
    I started writing a book about the intrinsic  LOGIC of the Bible and how everything fits in perfectly - a few years back and decided to stop..... because I decided that I do not want to be competition for the slave..... Jehovah gave them the job to advertise the kingdom.... and I will not use what I learnt from the organization (even if I have a lot of my own ideas - to make money for myself.   I may later finish it and ask them if I can publish..... and if they do not like  ..... it is OK with me.  I am participating in the greatest work on earth - to teach others about Jehovah. 
    There is a thin line which one can overstep.  Think of Adam and Eve - it was a very simple test...... and such a small thing.... which actually shows the level of obedience and cooperation which Jehovah really expects from us.  This is why the bible shows we must be in unity and in cooperation when he finds us.....  We can use our powers to sow discord and doubt..... which is not the way Jehovah wants us to be.  We must be slaves...... of others ....not scholars.  Jesus knew all the knowledge there is all to know in heaven and on earth but not once did he show that he knows more than other people.  He stayed lowly until his death. We all - me included - can learn from this! for sure!
  12. Upvote
  13. Like
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    Went to a historical Museum about the 2 world wars in Norway last week and saw the same phrase I have seen so many times -  1914 was the" year the world changed never to be the same again...."   It identified all the new kinds of weapons that had never been used in previous wars before..... so many....The battle of the Somme is still listed as one of the worst battles ever....
    What we see on the ground in real life  must also reflect what is in the scriptures.... so 1925  or any other date in my book would not even get a chance to be a possibility......     I did not mean to sound rude when I said that one can get sooo scholarly and focussed on only one item that one develops a myopia .... and by the way .....  I was browsing the internet when I saw an Interlinear I had not seen before- and there it was - the word " Parousia" in chapter Matt 24.
  14. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    And yet out of all those JW.ORG is the most translated of all 1.2 Billion and the #1 of all religious websites on earth. Since Jesus said the True faith would be the ones preaching in ALL the inhabited earth obviously we see that as being true since a few years after 2012 when the website first launched.
    Of course I still use Love as the predominant factor in identifying true religion but it is because of this love that the brothers did all this work in order to reach as many people as they can with the message. So it is connected to Jn. 13:35. We are the only one actually doing the WORK of Kingdom preaching. Why even the Roman Catholic Churches website [with over a billion members] is only translated in 10 languages whereas ours is 904 and climbing. And that is with all volunteer labor.
    You see before 2012 we could say we have the truth and give evidence to back it up from Scripture like the worldwide preaching work which many would need faith to see but these facts on the internet are secular quantitative facts that are supportive and undeniable as to where JW.org stands in relation to all the rest. And EVERYONE can now see it with their own eyes. The small one becoming a thousand and a mighty nation Jehovah would speed it up in His time. Could that time be now, just a few years before the beginning of the Great Tribulation?
  15. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    Thank you for the good outlay of the date of Cyrus's capture of Babylon.  I studied it years ago and frankly I do not have to prove it to myself again.  But as you say -  IF the Persian rule began in 538 BCE  (most scholars put it at 539 BCE such as quoted from Wikipedia -       " After the fall of Babylon to the Persian king Cyrus the Great in 539 BCE, exiled Judeans were permitted to return to Judah.[4][5] According to the biblical book of Ezra, construction of the second temple in Jerusalem began around 537 BCE."   
    So if the call went out in 538 BCE or 539 BCE by secular confirmation - then it could have taken them up to a year or even two to get ready and trek the distance to Jerusalem.  So this could easily have brought the secular date to 537 BCE as indicated by the date in Wikipedia....
    The Bible prophesied that they will be in captivity 70 years (most secular historians put their captivity at 50 years but Jehovah said it would be 70 - so we stick to 70 if we really believe in Jehovah's word)..... Count seventy years back from 537 BCE then you get to 607 BCE....... and you have your date for the true date for the fall of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.  ...... So 1914 is not such a "murky' date after all!     ..........
    I have looked at these dates before ...... and most of the Assyrian dates such as the fall of Nineveh is not absolutely set in stone but the ONE date on which most historians agree is the date of Cyrus the Great...... . As I have indicated before in my replies here on this website - even the Egyptian chronology is on shaky grounds and most scholars do not trust the Bible!.
    To understand the  ' reality ' of the bible one needs a time-line and chronology and proof that the entire message in its various segments of time - came true - on time.   This is why I can show Muslims that Jesus is the 'true messenger' because of his genealogy of 2025 years and the accurate prophecy about the time of his birth.  Why did Jehovah give these prophecies if he did not think that we "need to understand them" at a certain time in the timeline ......and we can search and study and find these things out?  He foresaw that we will discover more about history and that ' knowledge would abound in the time of the end."
    Daniel 12: 3  “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. 4  “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end.+ Many will rove about,* and the true knowledge will become abundant.” (This scripture also indicates a period in the time of the end!)
    The beasts and the understanding that there would be several world powers gives us a sense of the "reality of Jehovah because it gives us a better sense of the timeline and came true as prophesied.   Also Daniel 2:   44  “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up/begin building a kingdom+ that will never be destroyed.+        
    Those anointed who have died have received the "first resurrection" and are invisibly ruling.  The rest will be 'changed in an instant' after they have been sealed.   The timeline of this "first resurrection" is linked to the Kingdom beginning invisibly to human eyes.  The rest of mankind will be resurrected during the 1000 years as stipulated in Revelation 20:1-3. 
    So one believes these realities because everything in the timeline fits into each other perfectly like a glove - the logic of it!
    Even the test of every earthly "perfect" person at the end of the thousand years proves that Jehovah was thinking of every possibility when he inspired people who write down his thoughts.  No human could have conspired and foreseen that we need rulers in heaven who were imperfect beings on earth before being resurrected to heaven..... and that earthly humans will need to undergo the same test as Adam before they are granted ever lasting life.
    I do not believe in dissecting a few words in one little chapter of the bible and throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  One can become too scholarly on only a few words and then become so obsessive about it and forget to take note of the entire long-term plan and the logic of Jehovah.   Jehovah is a perfect timekeeper.
    When I look at USA politics I see the same frame of mind.   People looking at things so shortsightedly- the overall picture and the next 10 or 20 years are never planned for.  In the study of the bible we can also be shortsighted and not look at the long-term or overall plan/purpose of Jehovah and get bogged down in measly little details that can make one lose faith and doubting Jehovah and his very imperfect slave which he is using by his eternal grace and mercy.
    I mean to bring my thoughts over - not in a derogatory way but in a way which can make my fellow believers think of things in the overall time-line of Jehovah's purpose.   Eph 1:9  after all shows that Jehovah has worked throughout the ages on "the administration" the management of his purpose.....  So we must grow to maturity and study deeper to understand how the time-flow interacted with his purpose. Once one sees the entire chronology and the purpose - how it unfolded  -this helps to really understand the "realities" Jehovah has given us.
    Eph 1:9"by making known to us the sacred secret+ of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10  for an administration* at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.+ Yes, in him.
    We understand the sacred secret now  - a government that will start ruling invisibly in heaven with a first resurrection..... etc. which will bring everything in heaven and earth together.  Clouds -  Only Jesus's apostles saw him go up to heaven in clouds..... Similarly the anointed would understand when he started to rule (shrouded in clouds) ....... but the day and hour no-one knows.
    13  “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One. 14  And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.+  
     
  16. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to TiagoBelager in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    We know that the men who govern Christian.Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses are not writers of God-inspired messages; they do not write material on a par with the Scriptures. What we do know is that the first-century Christian congregation had a governing body, and a work greater in scope than what Christians accomplished in the first century is being accomplished in these last days, which again requires existence of a governing body, too. Refinements in doctrine are to be expected, maybe even as will yet affect the way we view the date 1914.. What I mean is this: we do not push ahead of direction from our Governing Body so that we remain in harmony in preaching a message that is not garbled with discordant "notes" that are off key, but remains a message that is a clarion call for all hearing it that they should be spiritually ready for the great day of God the Almighty. When it becomes Jehovah's time for refinements, we will all of us get them at the same time so that we remain united.
  17. Like
    bruceq reacted to Melinda Mills in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    What about the effects of the website on those lands where people are poor and neither have computers nor the Internet, including JWs?  I remember an Article in the Watchtower recently wherein the Gov Body was asked if whose Witnesses who don't have access to the Website are well fed and they said Yes.  
     
    Here is the quote:
    *** w14 8/15 p. 5 Are You Receiving “Food at the Proper Time”? ***
    3. If you do not have access in your language to all the publications that are produced, will you become spiritually undernourished?
    The answer is no. And it should not surprise us that some of Jehovah’s servants might, at times, have access to more spiritual food than others do. Why not? Consider the apostles. They received more instruction than many other disciples in the first century did. (Mark 4:10; 9:35-37) Even so, the other disciples were not spiritually undernourished; they received what they needed.—Eph. 4:20-24; 1 Pet. 1:8.
    It is also worth noting that much of what Jesus said and did while on earth is not recorded in the Gospel accounts. The apostle John wrote: “There are also, in fact, many other things that Jesus did, which if ever they were written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written.” (John 21:25) Even though Jesus’ first-century followers had more information about the perfect man Jesus than we do, we are not deprived. Jehovah has made sure that we know enough about Jesus for us to be his footstep followers.—1 Pet. 2:21.
    Think, too, of the letters sent by the apostles to the first-century congregations. At least one letter written by Paul was not preserved in the Bible. (Col. 4:16) Is our spiritual food inadequate because we do not have access to that letter? No. Jehovah knows what we need and has given us enough to keep us spiritually strong.—Matt. 6:8.
    Today, some groups of Jehovah’s servants have more spiritual food available to them than others have. Do you speak a language in which only a few publications are available? If so, know that Jehovah cares for you. Study the material you have, and if possible, attend the meetings in a language that you understand. And be assured that Jehovah will keep you spiritually strong.—Ps. 1:2; Heb. 10:24, 25.
    4. If you do not have access to material that is published on jw.org, will you become spiritually weak?
    On our Web site, we publish copies of our magazines and other Bible-study publications. The Web site also provides material that helps couples, teenagers, and those with young children. Families benefit by considering this material in their Family Worship sessions. In addition, our Web site reports on special programs, such as Gilead graduations and the annual meeting, and it keeps our global brotherhood informed about natural disasters and legal developments that affect Jehovah’s people. (1 Pet. 5:8, 9) The Web site is also a powerful preaching tool, making the good news available even in lands where our work is restricted or banned.
    However, you can remain spiritually strong whether you have access to our Web site or not. The slave has worked hard to provide enough printed material to keep each domestic spiritually well-fed. Therefore, you should not feel obligated to buy a device just to access jw.org. Some may make private arrangements to print a limited amount of material published on our Web site and give it personally to those who do not have Internet access, but congregations are not required to do this.
    We are grateful to Jesus for keeping his promise to care for our spiritual needs. As these difficult last days rapidly draw to a close, we can be confident that Jehovah will continue to provide spiritual “food at the proper time.”
     
  18. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Anna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    If I'm not mistaken, both Rutherford and Knorr were considered the FDS, after all, this was after 1918, when the supposed appointment was made, as you yourself mention. But I think this appointment was seen in retrospect. (years later). JWInsider will probably know more about this. I believe all of the anointed were thought to be the FDS and then the WT of July 2013 clarified that it only applied to the anointed in the GB, the article was: "feeding many at the hands of a few"
    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-feeds-many/
    P.S I think Br. Russell is viewed as one who "prepared the way" and as the "rattling of the bones" as per Ezekiel 37:1-14
  19. Upvote
  20. Like
    bruceq reacted to Anna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    Very interesting so far JWInsider. Enjoying reading your analysis.
    I got into a discussion once with a "Bible Student" and he wanted to know the difference between Christ's coming (to execute final judgement) and his parousia (the invisible extended period of time prior to that). He said it was one and the same thing. It does get kind of confusing when Jesus apparently "came" in 1918...
    I'm sure you are aware of the July 2013 WT, where the writers attempted to explain the new understanding.  (I realise this is bringing another element into the equation, namely the faithful and discreet slave)
    16 Regarding the faithful and discreet slave, Jesus says: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [“having come,” ftn.] finds him doing so.” In the parable of the virgins, Jesus states: “While they were going off to buy, the bridegroom arrived [“came,” Kingdom Interlinear].” In the parable of the talents, Jesus relates: “After a long time the master of those slaves came.” In the same parable, the master says: “On my arrival [“having come,” Int] I would be receiving what is mine.” (Matt. 24:46; 25:10, 19, 27) To what time do these four instances of Jesus’ coming refer?
    17 In the past, we have stated in our publications that these last four references apply to Jesus’ arriving, or coming, in 1918. As an example, take Jesus’ statement about “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Read Matthew 24:45-47.) We understood that the “arriving” mentioned in verse 46 was linked to the time when Jesus came to inspect the spiritual condition of the anointed in 1918 and that the appointment of the slave over all the Master’s belongings occurred in 1919. (Mal. 3:1) However, a further consideration of Jesus’ prophecy indicates that an adjustment in our understanding of the timing of certain aspects of Jesus’ prophecy is needed. Why so?
     18 In the verses that lead up to Matthew 24:46, the word “coming” refers consistently to the time when Jesus comes to pronounce and execute judgment during the great tribulation. (Matt. 24:30, 42, 44) Also, as we considered in  paragraph 12, Jesus’ ‘arriving’ mentioned at Matthew 25:31 refers to that same future time of judgment. So it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings, mentioned at Matthew 24:46, 47, also applies to his future coming, during the great tribulation. * Indeed, a consideration of Jesus’ prophecy in its entirety makes it clear that each of these eight references to his coming applies to the future time of judgment during the great tribulation.
    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-prophecy-last-days/
    I am looking forward to what your final conclusion is, summarized in just a few paragraphs I hope!
  21. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?   
    I think a debate about this does not serve any purpose because there are many other scriptures in the bible that supports an invisible rule from heaven.  Why would we need SIGNS if it were visible?  The signs are an indication that something has happened that we have not seen but has had an effect on earth.  REV 12: 7-12 gives a good indication that the Kingdom was established in heaven (invisible to human eyes) and authority was given to Christ.  There is a war and Satan and his demons cast out.  We cannot see demons can we?   They are cast out to the earth and it laments the effects this event will have on the earth which will be a clear sign that we are in the final days of human rule. "Short time left" indicates this.
    The illustration of a pregnant lady puts it clearly..... we can see the signs that she is pregnant (big bump) and we know the birth is eminent .... close ...... but we do not know the hour.     Similar to the 'signs' on earth....we are in the ninth month -  but the day and hour will come suddenly. 
    In the past the governing body have gone into great detail to explain every little nuance - but we have heard so many times in the past few years that they are sticking to the broader lines of each illustration.  Similarly - we need to read all the scriptures connected to this time together and let them explain each other.  I do not think that going in the past history of the governing body and the detailed versions ( which was part of those historical times) to cloud our vision at this time.  I do not care about the word "Parousia" there are enough other scriptures in the  bible which indicates that it will be invisible.  
    Jesus said there will be many false Christs appearing or rumors of this.  Why?  because Muslim and Christendom are expecting Jesus/Isa to come in the flesh as a ruler or fight with a sword..... " If possible to corrupt the true disciples."....Jesus will not come in the flesh and his armies will be the angels - not humans.  Humans will physically kill each other and certain "signs" will appear to indicate that Armageddon is here!  The heavenly angels will then finish the job of removing the wicked.   I believe that the time of end will be like the time when israel left Egypt - Jehovah will "prove to be"  by his deeds and signs just like he used Moses - he will again use faithful servants to bring the message and support his people in this time to do the job. Noah was a preacher until the end.   This preaching work in the entire world is part of the 'sign' of the time of the end.  The appearance of a slave who gives spiritual food to the nations 'free' is a sign of the end.  And it asks the question - who is he?  So we must be able to recognize the slave....
    Our ruler will be 'invisible' from heaven and the principles which will unite the world (all nations) as one, are principles that are practical and workable (a peaceable ideology- I call Social Studies 101). But only if all in the new world citizens willingly agree to follow these principles and leave their egos behind. No man is to control another or even tell them what to do.... each person to care more for another than for themselves so we all care for each other collectively and the wellbeing of others in respect and principled love.  We do not need a physical ruler if we all follow these principles.  The ruler is already ruling invisibly.... Those who like to lord it over others will NOT be kept alive!  Our shepherds will be loving shepherds.... who care and only provide help and guidance.... no domination whatsoever or "lording" it over others because this trait is a trait out of Satan's book!  All forms of control or dominion has its origins in the ego and will disappear.  Satan had a ego and wanted more attention from humans than he deserved.  
    So these Social studies 101 tells me that we will have direct rule from God and his chosen representative in heaven and like a shepherd tends to flocks the "princes" will be humble shepherds who fall under the same invisible rulership.  There are more than enough other scriptures to indicate that Jesus will start ruling amidst his enemies.... 
    The time line of the bible is given to us as an indication of how far we are in the stream of time and the purposes of Jehovah to come in fulfillment - like 1914.   The entire bible is a "restoration project of the earth." and Jehovah has been silently working to come to the point where his legal ruler will start ruling and bring his purposes to fulfillment.  Each individual can choose if they want to be part of it - or NOT.
  22. Thanks
    bruceq reacted to bruceq in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    And yet out of all those JW.ORG is the most translated of all 1.2 Billion and the #1 of all religious websites on earth. Since Jesus said the True faith would be the ones preaching in ALL the inhabited earth obviously we see that as being true since a few years after 2012 when the website first launched.
    Of course I still use Love as the predominant factor in identifying true religion but it is because of this love that the brothers did all this work in order to reach as many people as they can with the message. So it is connected to Jn. 13:35. We are the only one actually doing the WORK of Kingdom preaching. Why even the Roman Catholic Churches website [with over a billion members] is only translated in 10 languages whereas ours is 904 and climbing. And that is with all volunteer labor.
    You see before 2012 we could say we have the truth and give evidence to back it up from Scripture like the worldwide preaching work which many would need faith to see but these facts on the internet are secular quantitative facts that are supportive and undeniable as to where JW.org stands in relation to all the rest. And EVERYONE can now see it with their own eyes. The small one becoming a thousand and a mighty nation Jehovah would speed it up in His time. Could that time be now, just a few years before the beginning of the Great Tribulation?
  23. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Anna in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    And yet out of all those JW.ORG is the most translated of all 1.2 Billion and the #1 of all religious websites on earth. Since Jesus said the True faith would be the ones preaching in ALL the inhabited earth obviously we see that as being true since a few years after 2012 when the website first launched.
    Of course I still use Love as the predominant factor in identifying true religion but it is because of this love that the brothers did all this work in order to reach as many people as they can with the message. So it is connected to Jn. 13:35. We are the only one actually doing the WORK of Kingdom preaching. Why even the Roman Catholic Churches website [with over a billion members] is only translated in 10 languages whereas ours is 904 and climbing. And that is with all volunteer labor.
    You see before 2012 we could say we have the truth and give evidence to back it up from Scripture like the worldwide preaching work which many would need faith to see but these facts on the internet are secular quantitative facts that are supportive and undeniable as to where JW.org stands in relation to all the rest. And EVERYONE can now see it with their own eyes. The small one becoming a thousand and a mighty nation Jehovah would speed it up in His time. Could that time be now, just a few years before the beginning of the Great Tribulation?
  24. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Anna in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    There are Scriptures that show how the work would progress and speed up before the end. I am sure with you background you can find them since there are to many to post. Â  {Also read all the posting I posted many there}. Obviously when the Watchtower was first printed at only 6,000 copies that did not mean it was the true religion just because of the quantity. Obviously many factors involved in identifying the true religion. But near the end of this system [but only if one believe we are at the end] would this make more sense to some
    What accounts for the incredible growth in Websites and computer technology and in JW.ORG rising above all the "Mountains and hills". Some say aliens must be involved since that is the best they can come up with. lol. Of course you could say aliens are involved if one means invisible spirit entities such as Jesus and the angels or even Satan takes his part to try and destroy as many as he can since he knows his time is short. But isn't it fascinating how Jehovah can use things from the world to HIS advantage. Remember who is really in charge and HIS purpose will have unfailing succes no matter what any of us actually do. The internet is now the primary way humans communicate. Why everyone now has a "smartphone" on their person 24/7. And it has become global to such an extent a major world power has actually BANNED JW.ORG in 2015 the first to do so ever on earth. And yet we are still at the top tells me all I need to know. Isa Chapter 2
    To me it seems very odd the incredible growth in computer and internet technology in such as very short amount of time.
    History and Growth of the Internet from 1995 till Today

    Today the Internet continues to grow day by day making
    McLuhan's Global Village a reality. The following table
    shows the incredibly fast evolution of the Internet from
    1995 till the present time:
     
    DATE
    NUMBER OF USERS
    % WORLD
    POPULATION
    INFORMATION
    SOURCE
            December, 1995
    16 millions 0.4 % IDC
    December, 1996
    36 millions 0.9 % IDC
    December, 1997
    70 millions 1.7 % IDC
    December, 1998
    147 millions 3.6 % C.I. Almanac
    December, 1999
    248 millions 4.1 % Nua Ltd.
    March, 2000
    304 millions 5.0 % Nua Ltd.
    July, 2000
    359 millions 5.9 % Nua Ltd.
    December, 2000
    361 millions 5.8 % Internet World Stats
    March, 2001
    458 millions 7.6 % Nua Ltd.
    June, 2001
    479 millions 7.9 % Nua Ltd.
    August, 2001
    513 millions 8.6 % Nua Ltd.
    April, 2002
    558 millions 8.6 % Internet World Stats
    July, 2002
    569 millions 9.1 % Internet World Stats
    September, 2002
    587 millions 9.4 % Internet World Stats
    March, 2003
    608 millions 9.7 % Internet World Stats
    September, 2003
    677 millions 10.6 % Internet World Stats
    October, 2003
    682 millions 10.7 % Internet World Stats
    December, 2003
    719 millions 11.1 % Internet World Stats
    February, 2004
    745 millions 11.5 % Internet World Stats
    May, 2004
    757 millions 11.7 % Internet World Stats
    October, 2004
    812 millions 12.7 % Internet World Stats
    December, 2004
    817 millions 12.7 % Internet World Stats
    March, 2005
    888 millions 13.9 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2005
    938 millions 14.6 % Internet World Stats
    September, 2005
    957 millions 14.9 % Internet World Stats
    November, 2005
    972 millions 15.2 % Internet World Stats
    December, 2005
    1,018 millions 15.7 % Internet World Stats
    March, 2006
    1,023 millions 15.7 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2006
    1,043 millions 16.0 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2006
    1,086 millions 16.7 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2006
    1,093 millions 16.7 % Internet World Stats
    Mar, 2007
    1,129 millions 17.2 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2007
    1,173 millions 17.8 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2007
    1,245 millions 18.9 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2007
    1,319 millions 20.0 % Internet World Stats
    Mar, 2008
    1,407 millions 21.1 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2008
    1,463 millions 21.9 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2008
    1,504 millions 22.5 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2008
    1,574 millions 23.5 % Internet World Stats
    Mar, 2009
    1,596 millions 23.8 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2009
    1,669 millions 24.7 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2009
    1,734 millions 25.6 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2009
    1,802 millions 26.6 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2010
    1,966 millions 28.7 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2010
    1,971 millions 28.8 % Internet World Stats
    Mar, 2011
    2,095 millions 30.2 % Internet World Stats
    Jun, 2011
    2,110 millions 30.4 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2011
    2,180 millions 31.5 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2011
    2,267 millions 32.7 % Internet World Stats
    Mar, 2012
    2,336 millions 33.3 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2012
    2,405 millions 34.3 % Internet World Stats
    Sept, 2012
    2,439 millions 34.8 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2012
    2,497 millions 35.7 % I.T.U.
    Dec, 2013
    2,802 millions 39.0 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2014
    3,035 millions 42.3 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2014
    3,079 millions 42.4 % Internet World Stats
    June, 2015
    3,270 millions 45.0 % Internet World Stats
    Dec, 2015
    3,366 millions 46.4 % Internet World Stats
    Jun. 2016
    3,631 millions 49.5 % Internet World Stats
    Dec. 2016
    3,696 millions 49.5 % Internet World Stats
    Mar. 2017
    3,739 millions 49.6 % Internet World Stats
  25. Like
    bruceq reacted to Anna in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    Yes, I fully agree with you, one should expect that
     
    Actually JWs in Italy are one of the largest religions after the Catholics
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