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b4ucuhear
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b4ucuhear reacted to Kosonen in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Yes, that is just fine. Because he has done so much good for us and will continue to do because he loves us. Otherwise we would be unthankful. And that's not right.
Love should be returned with love.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Frankly, this is a rationale and line of thinking I would expect Satan the Devil to accuse God of. There can be no question that Jehovah is a loving God who is interested in the welfare of his creation. After all, look what he has done and provided for us - including his own son. He didn't owe us anything. As sinners, all of us were already under the sentence of death. It was an underserved kindness and gracious gift from God that any of us could have a salvation we could never merit/achieve on our own. They idea of Jehovah's name being sanctified and made holy has much broader implications than your assertion of "egotism" suggests. An illustration: Let's say, you have all your money - the money you hope to retire on as well as the inheritance for your children tied up in a bank. Like many people you may want to invest that money with a financial advisor. You hear the guy is the best guy to invest with, but also hear some disturbing accusations: that he is a liar; that he has stolen the life savings of others and is even a money-launderer for the mob and has to go to court to face those accusations. Would you hand him all your money? Not unless you had an intimate knowledge of the man and knew all the facts. But most people would have questions and likely not put their trust in that advisor until the court action was settled. Until the verdict was established for all to see as to whether the charges are true or not. Whether his reputation can stand scrutiny. Once it is established that all the accusations are slanderous lies, you would feel comfortable investing then and only then, wouldn't you?
In a similar way, there are many beautiful blessings Jehovah has in store for all creation in harmony with his purpose for them. But Satan has raised some troubling accusations. That God is a liar who can't be trusted. That he withholds good things from his children and later, that humans don't need him and would do better on their own, that he is a cruel God that tortures people forever in hellfire... Added to the facts is that some of those closest to him have also turned against him including perfect men and angels. So who would want to serve a sovereign with those accusations in place, even if the promises for the future were wonderful? Promises wouldn't be so wonderful if he couldn't carry them out or he was a liar as charged. These issues have universal and everlasting implications. So it shouldn't be so hard to accept that the sanctification of Jehovah's name is necessary for everything else to take place. All good things we can benefit from, hinge on our love and trust in him. That we recognize that he knows what is best for us and has the right to decide, on a universal level, for all eternity, to make those decisions. Not only because he is the creator. Not only because he has shown his love for us at great cost to himself. But also because of who he is as a person. Those types of issues simply don't go away and can't be solved only by man's salvation. Spirit creatures are involved too. His reputation is intrinsically linked to his will and good purposes in behalf of mankind and yes, all living creatures - even those dead in the ground. Selfishly thinking that we are most important is the way a baby thinks, not a mature spiritual man. However, trusting that Jehovah as a loving father will do anything and become anything that is necessary to rescue his children from certain death is tied up with who we believe he is - his reputation. Hence, the sanctification of his name is of such importance as Jesus himself showed in his model prayer. It's not a question of "either-or." One is directly related to the other.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Frankly, this is a rationale and line of thinking I would expect Satan the Devil to accuse God of. There can be no question that Jehovah is a loving God who is interested in the welfare of his creation. After all, look what he has done and provided for us - including his own son. He didn't owe us anything. As sinners, all of us were already under the sentence of death. It was an underserved kindness and gracious gift from God that any of us could have a salvation we could never merit/achieve on our own. They idea of Jehovah's name being sanctified and made holy has much broader implications than your assertion of "egotism" suggests. An illustration: Let's say, you have all your money - the money you hope to retire on as well as the inheritance for your children tied up in a bank. Like many people you may want to invest that money with a financial advisor. You hear the guy is the best guy to invest with, but also hear some disturbing accusations: that he is a liar; that he has stolen the life savings of others and is even a money-launderer for the mob and has to go to court to face those accusations. Would you hand him all your money? Not unless you had an intimate knowledge of the man and knew all the facts. But most people would have questions and likely not put their trust in that advisor until the court action was settled. Until the verdict was established for all to see as to whether the charges are true or not. Whether his reputation can stand scrutiny. Once it is established that all the accusations are slanderous lies, you would feel comfortable investing then and only then, wouldn't you?
In a similar way, there are many beautiful blessings Jehovah has in store for all creation in harmony with his purpose for them. But Satan has raised some troubling accusations. That God is a liar who can't be trusted. That he withholds good things from his children and later, that humans don't need him and would do better on their own, that he is a cruel God that tortures people forever in hellfire... Added to the facts is that some of those closest to him have also turned against him including perfect men and angels. So who would want to serve a sovereign with those accusations in place, even if the promises for the future were wonderful? Promises wouldn't be so wonderful if he couldn't carry them out or he was a liar as charged. These issues have universal and everlasting implications. So it shouldn't be so hard to accept that the sanctification of Jehovah's name is necessary for everything else to take place. All good things we can benefit from, hinge on our love and trust in him. That we recognize that he knows what is best for us and has the right to decide, on a universal level, for all eternity, to make those decisions. Not only because he is the creator. Not only because he has shown his love for us at great cost to himself. But also because of who he is as a person. Those types of issues simply don't go away and can't be solved only by man's salvation. Spirit creatures are involved too. His reputation is intrinsically linked to his will and good purposes in behalf of mankind and yes, all living creatures - even those dead in the ground. Selfishly thinking that we are most important is the way a baby thinks, not a mature spiritual man. However, trusting that Jehovah as a loving father will do anything and become anything that is necessary to rescue his children from certain death is tied up with who we believe he is - his reputation. Hence, the sanctification of his name is of such importance as Jesus himself showed in his model prayer. It's not a question of "either-or." One is directly related to the other.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from Arauna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Frankly, this is a rationale and line of thinking I would expect Satan the Devil to accuse God of. There can be no question that Jehovah is a loving God who is interested in the welfare of his creation. After all, look what he has done and provided for us - including his own son. He didn't owe us anything. As sinners, all of us were already under the sentence of death. It was an underserved kindness and gracious gift from God that any of us could have a salvation we could never merit/achieve on our own. They idea of Jehovah's name being sanctified and made holy has much broader implications than your assertion of "egotism" suggests. An illustration: Let's say, you have all your money - the money you hope to retire on as well as the inheritance for your children tied up in a bank. Like many people you may want to invest that money with a financial advisor. You hear the guy is the best guy to invest with, but also hear some disturbing accusations: that he is a liar; that he has stolen the life savings of others and is even a money-launderer for the mob and has to go to court to face those accusations. Would you hand him all your money? Not unless you had an intimate knowledge of the man and knew all the facts. But most people would have questions and likely not put their trust in that advisor until the court action was settled. Until the verdict was established for all to see as to whether the charges are true or not. Whether his reputation can stand scrutiny. Once it is established that all the accusations are slanderous lies, you would feel comfortable investing then and only then, wouldn't you?
In a similar way, there are many beautiful blessings Jehovah has in store for all creation in harmony with his purpose for them. But Satan has raised some troubling accusations. That God is a liar who can't be trusted. That he withholds good things from his children and later, that humans don't need him and would do better on their own, that he is a cruel God that tortures people forever in hellfire... Added to the facts is that some of those closest to him have also turned against him including perfect men and angels. So who would want to serve a sovereign with those accusations in place, even if the promises for the future were wonderful? Promises wouldn't be so wonderful if he couldn't carry them out or he was a liar as charged. These issues have universal and everlasting implications. So it shouldn't be so hard to accept that the sanctification of Jehovah's name is necessary for everything else to take place. All good things we can benefit from, hinge on our love and trust in him. That we recognize that he knows what is best for us and has the right to decide, on a universal level, for all eternity, to make those decisions. Not only because he is the creator. Not only because he has shown his love for us at great cost to himself. But also because of who he is as a person. Those types of issues simply don't go away and can't be solved only by man's salvation. Spirit creatures are involved too. His reputation is intrinsically linked to his will and good purposes in behalf of mankind and yes, all living creatures - even those dead in the ground. Selfishly thinking that we are most important is the way a baby thinks, not a mature spiritual man. However, trusting that Jehovah as a loving father will do anything and become anything that is necessary to rescue his children from certain death is tied up with who we believe he is - his reputation. Hence, the sanctification of his name is of such importance as Jesus himself showed in his model prayer. It's not a question of "either-or." One is directly related to the other.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
To the extent that they were not convinced in their own mind, then yes, they were potentially going against their own conscience.
But in their Bible-based training, how many elders actually question the blood doctrine, for example, as if it is man-made? I think that almost all elders are convinced in their own mind that this comes directly from Jehovah because it's found in Acts 15 & 21. If someone were to tell an elder that organ transplants were no different than blood transfusions because you can never get rid of every bit of the whole blood in a muscle or organ then it would be just as easy to convince the elders on these grounds, too.
But I agree that elders have acted on "knowledge" that seemed true at the time, but turned out to be "false knowledge." And there is too much reliance on the "probability" that heaven has already agreed with the GB about those things elders will judge. The idea that Jesus gave about things bound or loosed in heaven does seem to be an acceptance that the Christian congregation will need to make decisions requiring some to have authority over others. Like telling a person that he must make changes before he is welcome back in a congregation that meets in someone's home, or telling the same person that he can meet with Christians at the "synagogue" in town, but that others will be asked not to voluntarily interact with him until he makes those changes. This will require "authority" of some over others. And what if that authority must be exercised over a fellow elder?
(1 Timothy 5:19-21) . . .Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest. 21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to observe these instructions without any prejudice or partiality.
Jesus is saying that some can be chosen to have such rights over others, which implies organizational authority. (Selecting elders, who act as "older men" acted in OT times, as judges.) But Jesus is also saying that his invisible presence with them will be available. This assumes a prayerful, humble attitude that treats the words of Jesus and the "mind of Christ" as if he were physically present.
This will keep such judgements from becoming too arbitrary, or based on false knowledge that is only correct for a specific time frame and then becomes obsolete. Those particular "short-lived" ideas appear to have been started by individuals in the organization who were given their position due to charisma, bombastic personalities, or the appearance of great individual wisdom. No one would dare go against them. It was not a case of two or three gathered in Jesus' name, but a personality cult around a single person. Rutherford recognized the personality cult around Russell, but very few bothered to point out the personality cult around Rutherford and F.W.Franz. If these men had been humble enough to consult with others over their biggest decisions, there would have been fewer of these "frames" you mentioned. But this is the "bane" of every organization. Paul spoke of the same to the Corinthians, who wanted to follow their special superfine apostles. Men from James seemed to have been too willing to take the side of James on an important issue, so Paul spoke to the Galatians about how they were accepting improper authority from these so-called "pillars of Jerusalem" even though these pillars never imparted anything new to Paul himself.
A well-balanced Governing Body of experienced older men can serve the congregations very well, and there SHOULD be a lot of trust in what they decide is important. When it comes to imitating their judgements, we should follow their lead depending on how well their conduct turns out. (Their "conduct" would include how their past judgments have turned out, including those temporary "frames.".) But there are limits, as you pointed out. We carry our own load, and stand on our own before the judgement seat of God. Elders have their own responsibility to pay attention to their teachings. They could harm the flock because the flock expects to be able to follow.
(1 Timothy 4:15, 16) . . .. 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.
(Hebrews 13:17) . . .Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
That's a stretch of logic. No one is saying that all DFs are done correctly, but you can't say that a mistake is done on purpose just because it turned out to be wrong. A teacher can mark a student wrong for spelling potato as potatoe, but that doesn't mean the teacher made the mistake on purpose. Disfellowshipping is not "killing." That's just another mistake, too. Jehovah sees the heart no matter what mistakes are made on earth.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Usually a good idea. And always a good idea in principle. But we don't need to make a law out of every principle, or we would be just like the Pharisees.
Imagine a case of incestuous rape in a culture where the rape victim will not likely ever be hired for a job, or will not be considered as a potential marriage partner, etc.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
You already know that this is not done on purpose. It is done because the WT believes those teachings worth disfellowshipping over are both true and important. While there may be false or at least questionable teachings, the persons doing the disfellowshipping are sure they are performing a sacred service, rooting out apostates, etc.
A corollary to #6.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
This is an opinion of yours. I would also prefer that the WTS not go after anyone on copyright issues as it makes them appear to be a part of the world in looking out for their own interests rather than just turning the other cheek. After all, the good news can get promoted even if the person is not promoting it for a good purpose
(Philippians 1:15-18) 15 True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news; 17 but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are intending to create trouble for me in my prison bonds. 18 With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this.. . .
But the idea of defending the good news can also make use of the "superior authorities." Paul used his Roman citizenship. By extension, copyright laws are another legal means of protecting the "context" of some teachings, which can be important when so many are happy to create fake news and rip things out of context. Therefore in the same chapter as above Paul points to the idea of "legally establishing" the good news.
(Philippians 1:7) . . .and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
I'm guessing that you are from 0 to 50 percent correct on the first three items.
I'd think you were 100 percent correct on this one, except that the WTS is expressing their interpretation of these ideas, and you have your own which you have determined to be better. In other words you are just doing the same thing the WTS is doing. You are interpreting scriptures in a way that seems right to you. You have no better or worse track record than they do with such numbers.
The WTS has already changed their view on some of these numbers and dates, and so have you. For all we know, these numbers have nothing to do with specific dates after the first century. We don't actually have any prophecies about world empires that definitely go past that of the Roman empire. Perhaps it's just our DESIRE to see more world empires predicted, that makes us add to the list that Daniel and Revelation speak about.
So it's very possible that none of us are supposed to try to do anything at all with these dates, as they may have all been fulfilled in the first century. Perhaps all prophecy pointed to the time of Christ. After all, Hebrews speaks of the "last days" already beginning in the first century. Acts speaks of the "last days" beginning in the first century. So does Paul when he explains to Timothy that he is seeing certain behaviors among the congregations because these things were predicted for those "last days" they lived in. Peter and Jude also refer to the kinds of ridiculers showing up in their own time, and they shouldn't be surprised, because such persons had been predicted to show up in those last days. Even John in his letters shows that the "last hour" has begun.
(1 John 2:18) . . .Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour.
To all these Bible writers, the point "now" (in these last days) is not to get involved with attempts to encroach upon a realm that is the Father's jurisdiction, but to be concerned with what kinds of persons we ought to be. Time predictions should be the last thing on our mind.
The Bible writer James, is one who uses the term "last days" as if he is speaking of a future time ("last days" of the "last days") but he is very informative about how we should deal with this short time. And I think it also concerns your expectations of a necessary flight to Australia or similar ideas:
(James 4:13-16) 13 Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do business and make some profit,” 14 whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears. 15 Instead, you should say: “If Jehovah wills, we will live and do this or that.” 16 But now you take pride in your arrogant boasting. All such boasting is wicked.
You are not looking for "profit" of course, but to think that we can predict anything about tomorrow, or where we should make plans to go is just "boasting." And all such boasting is wicked.
(James 5:3-8) . . .What you have stored up will be like a fire in the last days. . . . 7 Be patient then, brothers, until the presence of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until the early rain and the late rain arrive. 8 You too exercise patience; make your hearts firm, because the presence of the Lord has drawn close.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
The Bible doesn't exactly say why Jesus showed so much agony even in his prayers to God. But, again, the Watchtower already contains many articles highlighting his humanity and his love. Even the verses about his extreme suffering are no longer applied specifically to the potential reproach his death could bring. Note the word "evidently" in the following:
*** w07 2/15 p. 27 pars. 15-16 “Children, Be Obedient to Your Parents” ***
Jesus’ mental and physical suffering became so great that the Bible says that he “offered up supplications and also petitions . . . with strong outcries and tears.” (Hebrews 5:7) When did this happen?
16 In particular, it occurred during the final hours of Jesus’ earthly life when Satan made an all-out attempt to break His integrity. Jesus was evidently so tortured by thoughts of how his death as a supposed evildoer might reflect badly on his Father’s reputation that as “he continued praying [in the garden of Gethsemane] his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground.” A few hours later, his manner of death on a torture stake was so painful that Jesus uttered “strong outcries [with] tears.” (Luke 22:42-44; Mark 15:34) He thus “learned obedience from the things he suffered” and thereby made his Father’s heart rejoice. Now in heaven, Jesus feels our pain as we often struggle to be obedient.—Proverbs 27:11; Hebrews 2:18; 4:15.
I don't see anyone minimizing the pain. This is even seen in the hundreds of times when the Watchtower highlights the translation of "stauros" as a torture stake, not just some iconic, spiritual symbol. And we should remember that the "stauros" was specifically intended to bring pain, shame and humiliation, which is why the Romans even stripped away the undergarments to expose the nakedness and powerlessness and humiliation of the one tortured.
So, I think it is still is a point worth considering that the "cup" was the potential humiliation and shame on God's name. Some would even see Christianity as "accursed" over this. But this need not discredit the pain and love Jesus showed. Since about the time of that article above, I see both aspects highlighted.
*** w06 10/1 p. 21 par. 2 Courage Strengthened by Love ***
Yes, love can impel humans to show outstanding courage. Jesus Christ himself stated: “No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends.” (John 15:13) Less than 24 hours after Jesus said these words, he gave his own life, not for just one person, but for mankind. (Matthew 20:28) Moreover, Jesus did not offer up his life in a spur-of-the-moment act of bravery. He knew in advance that he would be ridiculed and abused, unjustly sentenced, and put to death on a torture stake. He even prepared his disciples for this outcome, saying: “Here we are, advancing up to Jerusalem, and the Son of man will be delivered to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death and will deliver him to men of the nations, and they will make fun of him and will spit upon him and scourge him and kill him.”—Mark 10:33, 34.
*** ws17 August p. 25 par. 15 How We Put On and Keep On the New Personality ***
When Jesus was in extreme pain on the torture stake, he asked his Father to forgive the men who put him to death. He said: “They do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34) Even when Jesus was under stress or in pain, he remained mild and patient.—Read 1 Peter 2:21-23.
*** ws16 April p. 12 par. 10 “Let Endurance Complete Its Work” ***
Even Jesus could have felt that way. When he was being executed on the torture stake, he was humiliated and in a lot of pain. This must have been the most difficult time in his life! What helped him endure? The Bible says that he looked at “the joy that was set before him.”
*** w09 9/15 p. 11 par. 1 Be Obedient and Courageous as Christ Was ***
These enemies caused Jesus intense mental, emotional, and physical pain. Ultimately, they succeeded in bringing about his death on the torture stake
*** w10 8/15 p. 5 Resist the Pressure of Public Opinion ***
In order to maintain his integrity to Jehovah, Jesus underwent the most dishonorable execution possible. “He endured a torture stake, despising shame.” (Heb. 12:2) Jesus’ enemies slapped him, spat on him, stripped him, flogged him, impaled him, and reviled him. (Mark 14:65; 15:29-32) Yet, Jesus despised the shame that they attempted to heap on him. How? He refused to shrink from such treatment. Jesus knew that he lost no dignity in Jehovah’s eyes, and he certainly sought no glory from men. Even though Jesus died the death of a slave, Jehovah dignified him by resurrecting him and giving him the most honorable place next to Him. At Philippians 2:8-11, we read: “[Christ Jesus] humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”
Jesus was not insensitive to the feelings of disgrace that accompanied his execution. Possible dishonor to his Father resulting from Jesus’ being condemned for blasphemy was a matter of concern to God’s Son. Jesus asked Jehovah to spare him such indignity. “Remove this cup from me,” he prayed. But Jesus submitted to God’s will. (Mark 14:36) Still, Jesus withstood the pressures brought to bear on him and despised the shame.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from Arauna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
There is a difference between not seeing eye-to-eye on certain matters or even recognizing the fact that sometimes things happen within the CCJW that shouldn't happen. Even best of friends or husbands and wives will disagree on matters once-in-a-while. But being in "opposition" is taking it a step farther. It indicates a mental attitude or inclination that is almost always negative, contrary with an agenda - even trying to "draw disciples after themselves."
Please don't twist my words to suit your argument by insinuating I had suggested all who disagree "should join together/be united as one" against the CCJWs. My actual words (see below) were practical, suggesting it's not our job to put out every fire someone who disagrees with us starts, or clean up the mess of those flinging so much mud against the wall from many different directions in the hope that something will stick. Why don't those who seem to have differences with JWs first do among themselves what they are expecting us to do? It is obvious you don't even agree amongst yourselves on many points. Why don't you take the time to correct each other first and see what (if anything) merits further consideration? For example: Do you agree that we should all flee to Australia? Or that the COVID pandemic is punishment from God? No? Why not? If this is an open forum, why shouldn't you feel free to question some of the other assertions that you don't agree with from other posters too?
"Trap?" What trap? Many people are opposers. Do you think the Russian government, Satan's system, apostates and demonstrators are not in opposition to what JW's believe or teach?
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b4ucuhear reacted to Arauna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
The definition in a dictionary does not do justice to the wickedness of this woman. The history of this woman tells you how wicked she was - not a definition of her name. She exterminated Jehovahs prophets from Israel, and acted in total lawlessness. She promoted the deprived Baal worship everywhere and the deprived rituals that were part of the fertility rights of Baal and Ashtorah. Elijah thought that he was the only worshiper of jehovah left in Israel..... and felt depressed. This was after he had seen fire come out of heaven in support from jehovah.... but her wicked influence was so great in the country.
No wonder jehovah had the entire family exterminated. Her daughter, Atelijah, ruled Juda for 6 years if I remember correctly. Her husband and her own sons were killed so that she could rule. The high priest saved Josiah from being killed. He started to rule at age of 8 after she was destroyed.
Today, opposers of Jehovah's worship and his nation are just as vicious, but in more subtle manner. Their only goal in life is to destroy Jehovah's people as a nation and subvert the truth. They are happy if they can break the integrity of JWs and sow doubt. Their goals are the same as that of Jezebel.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
This probably gets their attention and, these days, could even result in a call to some kind of law enforcement. Not very discreet.
A thinly veiled threat. You don't expect the WTS to change, so you indicate the threat of a series of increasingly damaging plagues. You still have not completely clarified that you, as God's messenger, are only an observer or message carrier, rather than a deliverer of plagues. Perhaps you will get an extra few feet of social distancing out of this one.
Others have pointed out that this makes little sense. The Russian government only took property. The vast majority of JWs in Russia are fine and can still communicate with one another and worship together in smaller groups. In fact, they are now in about the same situation as every other religion is in right now, only they got there a few months earlier. There is zero evidence that this was discipline, but even if it was:
(Hebrews 12:5, 6) . . .“My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; 6 for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, he scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”
There is zero evidence or likelihood that you (or some "messenger" like you) were somehow partly responsible for Russia's actions. Do you think that the persecution of JWs and Bible Students and Jews in Germany under Hitler was because Rutherford and others didn't listen to some messenger? There was perhaps also a Jewish messenger that most Jews failed to listen to throughout several countries in Europe?
I think the "affliction" in Russia actually helped create a world-wide witness and created increased cohesion among Witnesses all around the world, at minimal cost in terms of suffering and property loss. To me, you sound a bit like the disciples and others looking for sin and judgment where it was not to be found:
(John 9:2, 3) . . .And his disciples asked him: “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered: “Neither this man sinned nor his parents, but it was so that the works of God might be made manifest in his case.
(Luke 13:1-4) . . .At that time some who were present reported to him about the Gal·i·leʹans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 In reply he said to them: “Do you think that those Gal·i·leʹans were worse sinners than all other Gal·i·leʹans because they have suffered these things? . . . 4 Or those 18 on whom the tower in Si·loʹam fell, killing them—do you think that they had greater guilt than all other men who live in Jerusalem?
This virus too will pass. And new viruses will come along. And this one will keep coming back for more. I suspect that, even this year, more JWs worldwide will have died from mosquito-borne illnesses than this Covid-19. It's a terrible "plague" for sure, but the real impact in the long run will be economic, even on the WTS/CCJW. Perhaps Patterson will be sold off as a college campus to some outside institution someday, and there will be more consolidation of branches and halls. Do you think that will really bother anyone in the long run? I think Covid-19 actually enhanced our reputation and showed us that we can adapt with less, if necessary. And I think it also makes us realize the need we have to depend on one another socially, too.
It might create a good test that makes some Witnesses assess just how true they were to the brotherhood. I imagine that several of the typical service measurements will be down. It takes a little more effort for some to feel motivated without their peers side-by-side. For others this is a chance to explore the effectiveness of informal witnessing to family, distant relatives and friends. I think that contributions will suffer and this reality will have to be handled with great care by brothers who will have to bring up the topic on the broadcasts for example. I expect that opposers are waiting to spring on any further reference to economic hardships at the WTS.
On the other hand, more people are probably home finding the website during lockdowns.
I'd like to discuss these too, but it will have to be later.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Hmm. I fell right into that one. But, of course, I agree that it very easily happens to anyone who tries to go into the "times and seasons" arena, where even angels fear to tread. If persons take themselves too seriously, they will want to be seen as a prophet, in spite of a string of past failures. It's an interesting phenomenon. And yes, I agree that even Barbour, Russell, Rutherford, Woodworth, FWFranz, etc continued to believe in "times and seasons" that were the result of a string of failures. No need to repeat it all here.
However, in favor of the Governing Body, I would say that they stopped trying to represent themselves as a "prophet." The last time I saw that phrase directly tied to the representatives of "the faithful and discreet slave" was back in 1971 and 1972, and this was undoubtedly part of FWFranz' promotion of his 1975 expectations.
I have seen much more careful language around dates and a complete lack of predictions among this particular group of men making up the Governing Body. Dates are rarely emphasized at all compared to the 1975 era.
I think it's a valid concern, for himself and those close to him. I don't think that anyone here has begun looking to the constellation Virgo and a few stray planets for the sign of the woman in Revelation 12, and I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking airplanes to Australia to ride out whatever plagues are left in God's quiver. But he is showing signs that should make all of us feel concern for him, and a desire to help him. This does not mean that the rest of us are all that mentally balanced ourselves. But I think we should all be sensitive to how certain phrases and ideas might reveal problems that might need to be dealt with.
This might even be the same reason that the GB brings it up. To try to make sure people are aware of mental issues and how they sometimes reveal themselves. And, I think we all know from experience that there really is a correlation between those who claim to be of the anointed (in some congregations) and those in need of mental health assistance. I cringe a bit myself when it is sometimes pointed out just before the Memorial celebration, but this is probably the best time to be reminded, just before your kids or your Bible students decide to go ask Sister Talks-To-Herself-During-Meetings how she knows she is of the anointed.
There are valid levels of concern about what constitutes "worship" but the Governing Body would likely consider anyone who wants to worship them to be either apostate or mentally ill. It would go against clear counsel by the Governing Body themselves. And the only ones who would obey without question are those who are exaggerating or misinterpreting the Bible's counsel to obey those taking the lead. The GB does not ask people to simply obey without question. Obedience is always in the context of knowing which reminders coming from the GB are repetitions of counsel found in the Bible. Another level of obedience is considered in the context of unknown circumstances ahead when it may be necessary to humbly follow instructions from elders or those in the lead. We won't always be able to understand, or we might even disagree, but we will humbly follow along so that we don't end up creating worse circumstances for everyone. If a coach thinks a certain move is best for a strategic football play, then even if you think you know a better play, you'd best work with the team, or else your own ideas will just ruin the play altogether. It's easy to exaggerate quotes about obedience and think they mean something they don't.
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b4ucuhear reacted to TrueTomHarley in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Tell me about it. My wife texted that to me: “Do you think I look fat?” Of course, I texted back “Noo!” extra ‘o’ for emphasis.
AI changed it to ‘Moo!”
Any room for me with your chickens?
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
"Pointless..." "absurd...bad...pretentious..." "loopy and self-important..." "like opening a door with two broken hinges..." "What if a frog had wings and could fly...some strong personal opinions with no basis in fact."
Apparently 4Jah2me is not alone in that observation. Frankly I thought the same myself.
Even when there are some points that might merit consideration, I can't imagine how many of these crank letters are sent to the society expecting to be taken seriously.
A negative agenda is often accompanied by a myopic view. A view coloured by biased lenses - seeing only from the perspective that fits their agenda. It's not uncommon. That is why people who have a falling out may dismiss a whole decades-long friendship/marriage on one fault - while not considering all the good or the broader picture. While it is true that Jehovah has disciplined his people in the past and may yet find reason to do so (or at least see to corrections that may need to be made today), the problems JWs experience as an organization are far better explained in terms of what the Bible clearly sets out and tells true Christians to expect. In fact, while reading just a few of the many verses in the Bible, the question could also be asked: Who of our opposers are themselves experiencing the persecution and hatred from the world true Christians are to expect? Again, rather than "discipline from Jehovah," these things are expected/prophesied to happen to true Christians living within the boundaries of Satan's system.
1 John 5:19: "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
Rev. 12:12, 13: "...Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time. Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child."
John 15:20: "Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you."
2 Tim. 3:12: "In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. (13) But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled. (14) You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them..."
Matt. 5:11: "Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against your for myself sake..."
Luke 21:12: "But before all these things happen, people will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name. (13) It will result in your giving a witness."
Matt. 24:9: "Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name. (10) Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. (11) Many false prophets will arise and mislead many..."
We all know why JW's are banned and persecuted in Russia and elsewhere. (Hint: it's not because they disagree with you and your personal interpretation). In fact, we know that the Russian "case" was built on outright lies and political corruption with a religious influence. Similar could be said with other persecution you prefer to see as discipline. So here's a suggestion: Why don't all you opposers fight it out between yourselves first, and then present one winner - one Goliath - instead of all the moving targets you usually present. We shouldn't have to fight all your battles and do your thinking for you. That way we don't have to "hopscotch" from one personal/conflicting opinion to another like some crazed "jack-in-the-box." Sure, you may be united in your opposition to JW's, but at least get your stories straight. You guys don't even agree amongst yourselves.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from Anna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
"Pointless..." "absurd...bad...pretentious..." "loopy and self-important..." "like opening a door with two broken hinges..." "What if a frog had wings and could fly...some strong personal opinions with no basis in fact."
Apparently 4Jah2me is not alone in that observation. Frankly I thought the same myself.
Even when there are some points that might merit consideration, I can't imagine how many of these crank letters are sent to the society expecting to be taken seriously.
A negative agenda is often accompanied by a myopic view. A view coloured by biased lenses - seeing only from the perspective that fits their agenda. It's not uncommon. That is why people who have a falling out may dismiss a whole decades-long friendship/marriage on one fault - while not considering all the good or the broader picture. While it is true that Jehovah has disciplined his people in the past and may yet find reason to do so (or at least see to corrections that may need to be made today), the problems JWs experience as an organization are far better explained in terms of what the Bible clearly sets out and tells true Christians to expect. In fact, while reading just a few of the many verses in the Bible, the question could also be asked: Who of our opposers are themselves experiencing the persecution and hatred from the world true Christians are to expect? Again, rather than "discipline from Jehovah," these things are expected/prophesied to happen to true Christians living within the boundaries of Satan's system.
1 John 5:19: "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
Rev. 12:12, 13: "...Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time. Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child."
John 15:20: "Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you."
2 Tim. 3:12: "In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. (13) But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled. (14) You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them..."
Matt. 5:11: "Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against your for myself sake..."
Luke 21:12: "But before all these things happen, people will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name. (13) It will result in your giving a witness."
Matt. 24:9: "Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name. (10) Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. (11) Many false prophets will arise and mislead many..."
We all know why JW's are banned and persecuted in Russia and elsewhere. (Hint: it's not because they disagree with you and your personal interpretation). In fact, we know that the Russian "case" was built on outright lies and political corruption with a religious influence. Similar could be said with other persecution you prefer to see as discipline. So here's a suggestion: Why don't all you opposers fight it out between yourselves first, and then present one winner - one Goliath - instead of all the moving targets you usually present. We shouldn't have to fight all your battles and do your thinking for you. That way we don't have to "hopscotch" from one personal/conflicting opinion to another like some crazed "jack-in-the-box." Sure, you may be united in your opposition to JW's, but at least get your stories straight. You guys don't even agree amongst yourselves.
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b4ucuhear reacted to JW Insider in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
Jan Kosonen, @Kosonen
In several places online, you have seen fit to provide your name, your email address, and much of your personal history. But you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. I began to point this out before and you do not appear back away from this history. Instead you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet.
I began to write a paraphrase of your letter as I think it will have been understood by any responsible person who reads it at the headquarters of the CCJW/WTS. But that started looking like an exercise in parody. And I didn't want you to think I was just trying to make fun of you. I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. I know another person very well who left Bethel in good mental health, but within a few years began to suffer greatly, and began to consider a lot of conspiracies and speculations about various "end-times" scenarios. I see several similarities. I don't wish to spell out these many similarities, but I do feel badly that he doesn't attempt to get the mental health care that he desperately needs. I am not sure if you have sought mental health professionals yourself. I hope that you have.
In addition, I hope you have also prayed for the kind of spiritual guidance that can help us maintain mental balance. I know that you consider yourself one of the anointed, and are therefore very familiar with the following verses:
(Romans 8:26, 27) 26 In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings. 27 But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.
(1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it.
You show a lot of bravery and boldness in sending your letters as you have. But you also display a lot of haughtiness in a way that makes me think you are likely not always aware of how you come across to other people. This is a common theme among certain kinds of mental health issues. In cases like this, the sound of the haughtiness might sound to you like the necessary boldness to speak as an anointed prophet might. But if one truly has the "spirit" they would understand the need to pray for the ability to put themselves in the place of the other person, the ones you wish to speak to.
(Philippians 2:1-4) . . .If, then, there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any spiritual fellowship, if any tender affection and compassion, 2 make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind. 3 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.
(1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) . . .All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person.
I would hope you are brave and bold enough to allow persons you trust to speak openly to you about this possible health problem. Have you honestly asked anyone if they believe you might have mental health issues? Sometimes, what we won't see for ourselves is clear to others. Paul spoke to Timothy about men whose folly was very plain to all.
(2 Timothy 3:9, 10) . . .Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance,
So, I'll ask you more directly: Do you think that you might have mental health issues?
I hope that you have persons you trust to ask this question about yourself. If any of us ask enough people around us, I don't think any of us would get a perfect score on this account. But if there is any question at all in the minds of others then it's a very important point to consider, and look into more closely. And I can tell you right now that this question about you is already in the minds of several of us here.
(Philippians 4:5-7) 5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
I'll be happy to engage the specifics of the points you made, but I do hope you will respond to these points, too.
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b4ucuhear reacted to Arauna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side
True. By what authority does Kosonen think he can warn that the Corona is punishment from God on JWs? It is absolutely absurd.
There are no good or logical points to consider......apologies to Mr Rook. Sorry lads, I think we will see more and more of this as the love of many will cool down (one of the signs of the last of the last days).
There is still time to repent.
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b4ucuhear reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in 'I FEEL FREE' Cancer survivor Ashya King’s mum splits from Jehovah’s Witness husband who thinks coronavirus is ‘plague sent from God’
Yes I read two different reports on this and she sounds a bit crazy. Either that or her husband is crazy.
She seems to say that the CCJW are pretending that this Covid-19 is the beginning of Armageddon.
I'm wondering if her husband is using the virus as an excuse to have more control over her and the children. Although I have read other reports about JWs using the virus as 'talking point', suggesting it is Armageddon related.
This lady however says she is going to sue the CCJW for all the money they have put in as contributions.
I do think it is possible that a few JWs are misusing the virus to spread fear, and a member of the GB wasn't too wise with his words concerning the virus, but overall I don't think the CCJW / W/t are using this virus as an Armageddon scare mongering thing.
We all know that world conditions are getting worse and it is what we expect. And we all know that each day brings us closer to God's Judgement time. We cannot expect things to get nicer. But it has to be a love for God that draws a person to HIM, not a fear of death.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in DAVID SPLANE AND HIS CARING SHEPHERDS
There is much, much more to be said in answer to this than you are making out. I don't usually buy into "they question how something was handled because they don't have all the facts" line - especially when in many cases it's the ones making the accusations on certain things that DO have all the facts. So I see that explanation sometimes as a dodge. But I will have to say that in this case, you apparently do not have all the facts - even if there are at times exceptions and legal considerations involved that provide an exception. But this has been hashed over many times before in numerous threads. Believe what you want.
Good points. Most people think of the physical and emotional pain and suffering Job went through when Satan attacked him. But really, there was nothing that wasn't common to men - for instance in times of war. Millions of people have lost everything. Lost their families, status in the community, their possessions, their health... So yes, Job lost a lot and suffered a lot. But Satan was more interested in compromising Job's integrity - his everlasting prospects based on his relationship with God. How did he do that? By making the test very difficult to rationalize or understand within the context of his faith. He made it appear as "discipline from Jehovah." As if God was unfairly disciplining him for something he knew he was not guilty of. Discipline can rightly be viewed as coming from Jehovah when it based on the principles and clear direction expressed in God's Word. It's "discipline" from Satan when it is used to deliberately harm innocent people or hide wickedness. Satan hasn't changed his tactics and still uses them. "All things were written aforetime..."
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in DAVID SPLANE AND HIS CARING SHEPHERDS
It's not all that uncommon that elders decisions are overruled or reversed on appeal (I wouldn't say it's common either though). In the case of one of the anointed elders, Bethel didn't even allow an appeal (not surprising since an appeal would have put more eyes on what they were endeavouring to cover up and he was exposing. It would have made them look pretty bad actually). But there is a provision that probably thousands of appointed men have made use of over the many decades that allows for an appeal in writing of the decision if the person feels strongly they were not dealt with fairly/scipturally. If a person is removed or disfellowshipped, my understanding is that it's pretty standard practice to be notified that they can appeal. Although some don't advertise it unless the individual specifically asks for it. It's no real secret - although most won't publicize confidential instructions - and neither would I if in that position. As to "where can we find instructions on that?: you would have to have access to written instructions and directions through letters and books. Apparently you don't - which I would say is a good thing frankly. Are there Bible examples of persons in authority who reversed their decision once they found out they made a bad decision? Yes, of course. Look it up. I'm not going to do your homework for you. As for posthumous reinstatement, evidently the elder body thought it fair to right a grievous and wicked wrong committed by certain elders against an innocent man, which had tarnished his reputation. I can't imagine what that poor brother went through, yet he faithfully continued on and never saw justice in his lifetime. (1 Tim. 5:24) After all, Jesus didn't either did he as a human? Neither did many other faithful men (Heb. 11...)
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in DAVID SPLANE AND HIS CARING SHEPHERDS
It would be unfair to paint with too wide a brush to basically say "everyone" is "always" this or that. Many/most brothers who serve as elders are loving shepherds who just want to do what is right. Who love Jehovah, love their families and love their brothers and sisters - regardless of whether you share their beliefs or not. But as has always been true, (whether in the times of the patriarchs, Israelites under Law and even the Christian congregation), there have been men who were "bad actors" who were anything but loving. Who grasped at positions of authority for totally the wrong reasons. Do we have men like that today? Although an "inconvenient truth," It shouldn't surprise us that yes, we do. In fact, doesn't the Jehovah clearly warn us against such ones in his word? Also, while recognizing my limited perspective geographically, I will grant you that from my "neck of the woods," there does in fact appear to be a concerted attack against anointed Christians from "wicked men and imposters" from within the organization. I personally know quite a few anointed Christians very well as close friends even serving with them and their greatest tests have come from within. I've seen it. Too often in fact to be a coincidence and not for doing bad, but exposing badness of other "shepherds." It's not that they were disliked - in fact most loved and respected them for the good lead they set spiritually - but I can only describe what I have personally seen as a murderous hatred. Well beyond what I would consider normal. Too clever, too orchestrated, too many outright lies and deception levelled against them to be coincidental. It seems more like a "machination" because of that. I'm not writing this to provide more "ammo" to opposers since as I had stated, I don't know if this goes any farther than my geographical area and it certainly does not characterize the vast majority of shepherds I know, nor does it necessarily describe the experience of anointed Christians elsewhere - but it's there. Yet, all of those are still serving with Jehovah's organization faithfully as pillars in the congregation despite Satan's evil efforts from men within. (Except for the anointed brother who died while disfellowshipped for years. He was posthumously reinstated when it was found that 3 "shepherds"/elders lyingly framed him in order to get him disfellowshipped. They in turn were disfellowshipped themselves when found out). There's a saying in my country: "Don't expect justice from Bethel." I would have to agree with that from what I have seen in my country. But I have also seen many good things. The bad shepherds you referred to in Jeremiah most certainly CAN at times describe men from within. But to my mind more appropriately describe those in Christendom as it's history shows. Of course, I can't mention sensitive stuff I know about to the average rank and file JW - it's too far beyond their scope of experience. But while I disagree with your broad application and decidedly negative only viewpoint, I also know things happen that shouldn't happen.
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b4ucuhear got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in DAVID SPLANE AND HIS CARING SHEPHERDS
non sequitur
It depends on whether the human decision was based on God's standards. Job, Jesus, Jeremiah...were all pariahs at one time, but not in Jehovah's eyes. Humans are limited, not miraculously inspired, imperfect, and can be easily fooled - especially when they want to be - when it is the path of least resistance. Other times there is simply little you have the authority to do anything about. But you know that already right?
No.
I have no idea of what your are trying to say here. Sorry.
No.
Seriously? You know they are imperfect right? Like you, me and every other human in existence, they can make mistakes in thought, action and judgment. I'm pretty sure you already know and accept that, right?
Well if you call hundreds of thousands of JW's all over the world plus what has been revealed on the internet "secret knowledge" be my guest. Although I would add that certain information is classed as confidential as is true in any organization - religious or otherwise.
You have it all backwards. Any appeal process is supposed to be exhausted before a final decision is made and later announced. (That assumes of course the men who are supposed to arrange the appeal don't have something to hide themselves. Then good luck getting an appeal - but that would be rare in my experience.)
Out of your mind maybe. I've only heard of this happening once and I agree with having a man's reputation restored in behalf of his friends and family who knew him. I would want that for sure if it was me. Apparently you wouldn't - that's fine.
I can only speak definitively on things I have seen in person or from first-person accounts from people I know personally and trust as being the "real deal." I personally have been all over the world, but that still doesn't quality me to make a statement to the effect it was happening elsewhere to any large scale past where I am. While I have been to many places, I haven't been there in a capacity where I would be intimately acquainted with the judicial matters associated with each congregation, let alone which anointed Christians felt like they were being persecuted. Nor would I put much credence in internet stories that any anonymous person could invent. I don't even expect people to believe what I say. as scripturally I'm not providing the names of any witnesses to corroborate anything I have said here. That being the case, while I wouldn't categorically dismiss your assertion, neither would I categorically accept it as representing a world-wide scenario. I I thank-you and appreciate your taking the time to explain your point of view and the sincerity you have of your convictions, but I can't say I buy it. I'm sure it sounds reasonable and logical to some/many people but your personal interpretation seems to go well beyond the scope of your reference in many respects. Too many for me to go into detail here. In fact, this is where I will choose to depart from this thread, as I feel I should take my own advice and not get enmeshed in pointless arguments with opposers who don't even agree amongst themselves. I respect all of your decisions to not want to be a JW. But that's not where I want to be. I like it here. I'm happy here. I'm fulfilled here. I have a rewarding, purposeful existence here with a bright outlook and good friends. I can't see me trolling internet websites in order push a negative and often hateful agenda. I have better things to do. So bye!