James Thomas Rook Jr.

Burnt Sheep?

It seems that 1999 was the last time the WTB&TS gave it's corporate guidance on this matter.

Anybody know about any current updates ... either via publications, talks, or actual practice?

I am thinking about voting in the November Senatorial Elections, here in the United States, with a clear conscience ... but I of course do not want to run afoul of the Congregation's Elders current conceptions or mis-conceptions, and be "burned at the stake".

uh .... so to speak.

ARE  WE  NOW  ALLOWED  TO  VOTE ?

The WTB&TS is involved in all kinds of political activity ... most recently having the Brotherhood of 8 million people and more (?) sent letters trying to persuade the Russian Federation to change its political policies towards Freedom of Religion, and non-interference with Jehovah's Witnesses. 

An estimated 64 MILLION of Jehovah's Witnesses letters flooded the country's leaders to try and get them to change their policies.

Unintended consequences of that gave the Russians approximately 11 boxcar loads of paper to dispose of  (firewood?), and through the Universal Postal Union's terminal duty contracts with all nations, 70% of the face value of the stamps, which amounted to 56 MILLION DOLLARS, CASH, of the Brotherhood's hard earned money. 

This does not count the time of about ( 64m x 20 minutes per letter  = 21,333 hours, or 10.3 "man years" ) of Jehovah's Witnesses time and productivity .... TO POLITICAL ACTIVITY.

My wife just told me that now ... the Society's policy is that voting is a matter of personal conscience .... where "before", it was strictly forbidden under pain of disfellowshipping.

I apparently have not kept up if this is true.

So my question is ... is this true ?

.... and if so ... why did the corporation policy change?

Are we now allowed to vote ?

Of course, if Jesus was a Bullfrog, he would not have to bump his rump, every time he jumped ... I mean... unless he wanted to.

Jesus is not a frog, and pagan ideas are not the solution to Universal Sovereignty without having continuous, never ending "Star Wars".

I would rather see "them" show the Bethel produced "Pillowgate" videos, and watch as the air gets sucked out of the room.

From Google Translate:

THIS MAN IS FROM THE COUNTRY WHICH MUST BE DENOUNCED FOR FRAUDULENT 
ACTIVITY WE ARE NOT SELLERS OF BOOKS WE GIVE THEM FREE OF CHARGE TO 
PEOPLE THOSE BOOKS HE HAS GRABBED ON THE EXPORTERS.

perhaps a bit more detail and such would make it make sense.

... to get a feel for this ... may I recommend the movie with Charlton Heston, "EL CID"

Here is something you have to think about, to discern the relevancy, if any .....

When the Muslims had taken over Spain, many centuries ago, the Spanish warred against them, and one Military General, who I understand was also a Catholic Bishop ( The Catholic church having devolved from the Roman Military ...) was laying siege to a Castle controlled by the Muslims, as they were about to lay waste to the Castle, he was informed that half the people in the Castle were Catholics.

He pondered over this dilemma but for a moment, and gave the order,  "Kill them all ... let God sort 'em out!"

Everything heavier than hydrogen was created later ... in Stars ..... through the fusion process, and Iron, and everything heavier than that, were created in Star Supernova explosions, also through the fusion process.

God MADE Eden, and all things in it, from available materials.

The "Tree of Knowledge" was like any other tree ... no different ....

The "bad" was Adam and Eve's decision that their values were superior to God's values. and with that, as an example, the "discovered" that they were naked. 

Perhaps lust had something to do with it?

Or poison ivy, and ants?

Those are three things that do not mix well with being naked.

Jehovah did not care at all that they were naked, and neither did they, until they adopted their own independent value system.

If you do not have the Freedom to be self destructive ... Freedom does not really exist.

.... but Freedom exercised badly is .... oh ..... whats the word I want to use .... um ... oh yeah! ....  "BAD". 

Like being waist deep in the swamp, and hand feeding a crocodile .... you would get a significant revelation.

Knowledge!

The "Tree of Knowledge" gave them no knowledge whatsoever, on any subject.

It or its descendants possibly survived until the Noachian Flood.

The "bad" was not in the tree ... neither was any actual  knowledge.

By the way ... had it occurred to you that everyone on Earth alive today, or that has ever lived, under their clothes, is or was running around naked?

Just like hand feeding a crocodile, if you make the decision to do that ... YOU WILL GET KNOWLEDGE !

But ... it may cost you an arm and a leg!

TTH:

As far as answering the legitimate and meaningful questions that would indicate an awareness and zeal for truth, justice and mercy ... very important things to discuss .. you ALWAYS are off-point, with the irrelevant stuff. 

It's interfering with my naps!

You are "slipperier" (sp?)  than Bill Clinton in a tub full of baby-oiled bimbos.

That looks like a drowned Hildabeast !

I guess Bill can date, now!

777 crew?

... I will take a nap .... while you catch up.

TTH

I did notice that in your lengthy reply .. you COULD NOT even supply ONE real life example of Mercy being shown in the administration of Justice, by the Elders or the Governing Body, even though you did quote my open challenge.

NOT A SINGLE real life example !!

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Perhaps you would like to give some real life examples ... rather than MORE WORDS !

Accusations about shunning are the new frontier. The movie Apostasy is a hit in England and it will likely travel around the world, causing huge pressure upon our young ones.

I posted a review of the movie under the heading 'As Sherlock Says, It's GAME ON!' but because it linked to my blog where the bulk of the lengthy review remained, it was rejected for spamming. I am feuding with the Librarian, and feuding rather seriously, as my offer of compromise goes unanswered. I am this close to packing it in here, and would almost welcome the fate of Allen the Terrible, so that the decision might be made for me. I would not thereafter prove the resurrection, as he has many times.

At a time when Jehovah's people are under vicious attack on many fronts, even banned & physically assaulted in the largest country by area on earth, it is not reassuring that brothers in position to make a difference instead choose to be unaffilaited journalists, hosting gigantic forums where petulant morons have equal say with genuinely spiritual people. One almost wonders if during the final Battle other journalists will show up wanting to make sure that each side's point of view is fairly represented.

I understand that all blogs are, by nature, competitive. However, a significant reason that Jehovah's organization works and those of the overall world do not is that members are willing to cooperate, and do not let such matters as turf concerns interfere.

... roughly the same thing as me asking where is a glass of milk, and you answering a detailed history of music (MOO-SIC?).

TTH:

Turf wars in the World are visible for all to see .... Turf wars in the Truth are hidden so that no one can know what is going on.

Why not just review the movie here ... through cut and paste ... rather than referring to your commercial blog?

I am under the impression that it has not been released here in the United States, yet.

Did you go to England to see it?  

By the way ... that is TWO questions ... for those in Rio Linda.

Moral of the story:

Never sleep in water upside down.

You are right, Space Merchant ... funeral customs vary greatly!

When the need arose ... and it always did ... and before I knew better, and became against the practice on the basis of just basic human dignity and respect for life,  My Daughter and I would hold "funeral services", and ad-hoc "Burials at Sea", in our home, in the bathroom, for her pet goldfishes.

Especially valid is the fact that after flushing them, they did not eventually go to the sea ... but to the septic tank.

Later, at my insistence, a more dignified way of giving our dearly departed adopted family pet  gold fishes was instituted, befitting their status as members of our  family.

I tossed them over the fence.

I am not disagreeing with the need for church or family discipline and accountability.

I am only disagreeing with the EXTENT and SEVERITY, and CRUELTY of how it is currently done.

(... many have reacted to such "loving cruelty" with suicide, or worse.)

It's a good thing we do not chastise our wayward children by cutting off their heads.

....  with soothing words in a kind and loving way ... of course.

Very few analogies hold up when projected into the next county ....

When you HAVE to do certain work .... it's better in a conducive environment that lends itself to work ... rather than the main point being endurance, while you work.

Using a rock as a hammer gives crappy results.

etc.,

etc.

7 minutes ago, Gone Away said:

My Mother said "If you cannot stand the heat... get out of the kitchen".

"Standing" the heat in the kitchen is not a problem in a well designed kitchen.

The same for judicial systems.

The ancient Jewish judicial system of  complete transparency in all things, was open on all sides to air, truth, and accountability.

22 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

My Father said..."If you cannot play by the rules...get out of the game".   

There is only one real "game" ... and that is Jehovah's Witnesses.

Sure the game is rigged ..... but if you don't play ... you  CANNOT win.

 In this context, and considering only the scope I have herein outlined in discussion ...

.... that statement is like "Earth!  Love it or leave it!"

Not a whole lot of options currently available ....

The PEOPLE may have been corrupt, but the SYSTEM discouraged that.

HINT: It was not modified during it's institution.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Putting this as delicately as I can, it is hard to imagine a response more stupid than this. It follows a report of mitigating Watchtower articles, which thereby become 'public policy.'

Putting it as delicately as I can .....

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

That is why, due to extenuating circumstances that would test the patience of the patriarch Job, the Brotherhood ...sometimes faced with IMPOSSIBLE choices and circumstances beyond their control, in my experience, and in 60 years of careful observation of theocratic administration on the local level ... have NEVER seen, or even heard about.any REAL MERCY shown, for someone whose circumstances would test Kings.

Perhaps you would like to give some real life examples ... rather than MORE WORDS !

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

As I recall, articles have been published to encourage friends to use human kindness and common sense in applying counsel on how to deal with DFed ones.

The problem is ... that Elders have in actual fact become administrators of Central Policy, and know that if they exercise compassion and mercy and common sense in their adjudications, it will go against Watchtower public policy. 

They do not want to be removed from their positions .... as we have learned so many times, it can be devastating to them when that happens, and we need to, as counseled, to forgive the Elders again, and again, and again, and again when they, doing the best they know how .... AND DON'T KNOW HOW .... make grevious and terrible mistakes in their judgement in applying the principles of mercy and common sense in their judgements.

Ok...I got that ... but the question is ....when they make mistakes due to not having any common sense at all ... what do we do about it?

IN reality, we at the bottom can do NOTHING about it, because everything is secret ... invoking the old joke "I would tell you ... but then I would have to kill you!". 

Also, merely inquiring about "What the hell happened ?" can get you on the "List", of people to be treated with suspicion. You are not allowed to question the Elder's judgements ... even if you did know.

Worldly people centuries ago realized that "Star Courts", and "Kangaroo Courts" do not produce either justice OR mercy. 

Apparently we have not yet learned that lesson ... yet .... and yet three thousand years ago God gave a court system to the Jews that DID work they way it was intended ... and for somewhere around a thousand and more years it served the Jews .. AND... Jehovah God well.

Completely public trials and adjudications of grievances of every sort in the City Gates, in open view ... where anyone could raise issues, yell out what they knew, and was open and transparent to EVERYONE ... Jew and gentile.

The advanced Nations have adopted this general model of achieving Justice and Mercy.

We have abandoned it for what we have now.

Millions of words have talked about mercy, mercy, mercy, Mercy,  MERCY in the pages of the Watchtower, and from the platform, but it usually gravitates to forgiving the Elders and the GB for their screw-ups.  We should also freely forgive each other ... but that does not seem to work from the top down ..... Only side to side, and from the bottom up.

That is why, due to extenuating circumstances that would test the patience of the patriarch Job, the Brotherhood ...sometimes faced with IMPOSSIBLE choices and circumstances beyond their control, in my experience, and in 60 years of careful observation of theocratic administration on the local level ... have NEVER seen, or even heard about.any REAL MERCY shown, for someone whose circumstances would test Kings.

ONLY THE ADMINISTRATION OF POLICY.

57 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I went to the site and read about the kinds of testicular medical problems you can get from tight pants, and it reminded me of a dirty joke. Which you can find here:

WOOOooooEEEEEEEooooooo

It is the exact same joke I was thinking of at your intro to your telling of it!

Know about the Hunchback that got a tailor made suit?