4 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

ROOK!

Only because you keep riding that pink elephant, too often.

Tonite,  I just finished off my half gallon of Peach Schnapps which I have been nursing for almost two years.

When I read your posts, it helps to be properly anesthetized.

5 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

A pastor has a duty to hold in confidence any information obtained during a counseling session. A pastor who violates this trust might be on the losing end of a suit for an invasion of privacy or defamation.^[7]"

Legally, this is quite understandable, and is true .....but there is a "rest of the story", and it has in the case of the WTB&TS already been sporadically adjudicated to reflect the uniqueness of the way we do things, and the rational goes something like this:

A pastor has a duty to hold in confidence any information obtained during a counseling session. A pastor who violates this trust might be on the losing end of a suit for an invasion of privacy or defamation - but if he tells ONE OTHER PERSON, that confidentiality is not then protected by law ... as the clergyman HIMSELF violated it.

Like the old Italian saying ... "Two can keep a secret ... if one of them is dead !"

In the case of the Society, there are THREE judges that run a Judicial Committee, and then a synopsis is made including names, dates, and offenses (real or imagined) and the specific details and investigations, and results are discussed with the Society's legal department by telephone.

In letters back and forth to the Branch Offices, with explanations, clarifications, and policy directives in that particular case.  THEN forms are filled out with the pertinent details ... the accused and/or convicted "sinner", (which may include blatant criminal activity), and that is sent to the Branch office.

If appeals committees are formed that is ANOTHER three people on a different Judicial Committee, and of course the Circuit Overseer who sometimes has to bring in others from other congregations.

Including mail routers at Bethel, secretaries, and other legal staff, there might be 20 people that have intimate details of whatever was confessed ... or not confessed, but adjudicated with prejudice.

So you can see that as long as only ONE "clergyman", and only ONE person is the "penitent" ... yes that conversation and possible confession is protected by law, pretty much everywhere in the English speaking world, but for the reasons stated, those laws, however stated and formulated ... DO NOT APPLY TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

Not one in a thousand lay people understand this (a WAG), and perhaps not one in a hundred lawyers, and perhaps not one in ten Judges.   It is arcane information that is not in the experience of most, about JW "Groupthink".

This does not include Elders wives who through "pillow talk" want to know EVERYTHING that goes on ... and do  find out, or a herd or gaggle of  Elders themselves gossiping around steaks on a grill, and lots of beer.

You might as well post a transcript in the Kingdom Hall Newsletter, if we had one.

...except no recordings, stenographers, or observers,  or representation is/are permitted, so that would be impossible, as in any Star Chamber proceedings.

As I stated before on this thread ... but it has been confirmed by REAL numbers (.02% thesis of JW Insider ...)

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

12/67,418= 0.02%

Notice that this is the same as the general population of Australia noted above, not 10 times better.

• 5,559 / 23,968,973 = 0.0002
• 12 / 67,418 = 0.0002

MY MAIN concern is the institutionalized tyranny of silence where Brothers and Sisters are disfellowshipped, and THREATENED with disfellowshipping,  to keep the child abuse covered up.

The family is ALREADY traumatized ... then the victim is threatened  and/or disfellowshipped, and this travesty is compounded by the victims family being held hostage in "Coventry" ... and if this combined trauma overwhelms them ... they have been thrown away ... forever.

THIS is why we have a 77% loss rate of those who leave.

I have PERSONALLY seen much too much of THIS  modus operandi .... year after year after year after year ... and been threatened myself about 13 times in the past 55 years.

It USED to shock me, and hurt my feelings and discourage me like carrying heavy, heavy bags of rocks ... but I got used to it as a survival mechanism.

You may have noticed that I am not exactly "Brother Watchtower".

The JW "spiritual paradise" operates under the same style as the old Soviet Union's "Worker's Paradise", where the main newspaper PRAVDA ... which when translated means "TRUTH",  was nothing but a self-aggrandizing puff piece for the Communist Party.

Think I am hyperbolic?

Go to the JW.ORG Web Site, and under "Legal", see how much of all the legal things we have discussed here show up as honest reporting.

Last time I checked, it was ZERO.

The Brotherhood is DELIBERATELY being kept in the dark, as an institutionalized policy, pretending the "Elephant In The Room" is not really here.

The Nazis used to break the will of many staunch Baptist prisoners  by vehemently swearing at them.

They would start crying, and mentally collapse.

extremely crude ... but quite true ... VERY funny, and a true classic.

Hard to ever find a better Wordsmith than George Carlin.

I would pay to see him in a discussion with the Apostle Paul.

It's IRONY!

You either get it ... or you don't.

I cannot imagine the Apostle Paul in his missionary work addressing sailors and ruffian tradespeople the same way he would address the Jewish Sanhedrin.

There are degrees of vulgar ( or common, lower class speech ...). Exclamatory, Defamatory, and Excretory ... and of course Sexual.

Some people are so used to coarse, vulgar speech that if you do not speak like they do ... they do not even HEAR you ... you are immediately dismissed as a Wuss.... a cowardly effeminate man lacking male genitalia.

Paul said he was all things to all people .... in the area of communications.

However .... I remember years ago, after a particularly good talk at the Kingdom Hall, I got up and excitedly exclaimed to the Sister behind me "Wasn't that a HELL of a good talk ?"

She looked at me like she had just been shot in the back with an arrow.

Clearly a case of me not "knowing the audience".

Crap!

.... by the way .... looking at the Clint Eastwood movie "Gran Torino"  is an excellent reference to see this  linguistic cultural norm being taught a teenager, as a survival tool.

I love irony !

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

He said that he was humbled by the change in the procedure of contacting the civil authorities. His explanation was ironic. He said that "it finally puts the fear of God in these pedophiles."

otherwise that would be an upvote.

Hey! that quote is an "Elephant" AllenSmith could chew on !

Allen:

You know, they say that The English (and that would include Australians) and the Americans are separated by a common language.

such a ALU-minum in American English, and Alu-MIN-ium, in the King's English.  Or GRAY in American, and GREY, in Englandish.

From your link: "Just because you see the word “subpoena” over the word “summons” DOESN’T give it the SAME weight in POWER, in, legal context."

Of course not!

But ignore either one at your peril of wallet and/or freedom.

That is where the "rubber meets the road.

If hypothetically I pointed my gun at YOU and wiggled it and nodded to my left, chances are you would want to move to my left.

That would be to YOUR right.

In THAT case, it would be REAL important!

One of the amazing things about your posts Allen, is what you pick out and isolate that's important to you mind, leaving the herd of Elephants in the room ignored.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You should NOT drink and post. Your incoherence is showing!

The thing about reading your posts, Allen .... is in the morning .... I will be sober ....  and you will still have your posts!

( Apologies to Winston Churchill ...)

I LOVE IT when somebody else does the heavy lifting ... like taking a Grand Piano up a three floor spiral staircase ... and gets it RIGHT!

I did that with a refrigerator when I was a young man ... but worrying statistics and data until they yield TRUTH ... is HARDER.

That's a LOT of work JW Insider, and I wish I could write you an appropriate check that would not bounce.

4 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

I don’t know where you keep getting, subpoena from ROOK! But STOP! LYING!

Once again, this is why JWinsider DEFENDS you, just so he can look good in AD1914?

There is a BIG difference between subpoena and summons. I already explained it to you, on the other thread, where you “failed” miserably with your perceived incorrect facts, and you still REFUSE to acknowledge it. You should NOT drink and post. Your incoherence is showing!

This billboard was put up close to an Assembly Hall in July, 2015, at Belton, Texas.

THE BROTHERHOOD IN GENERAL IS NEVER TOLD WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON ... yet under your "scenario" this information is freely given to Australian Courts?

What are we?

Chopped Liver?

 

2 hours ago, Nicole said:

Why I was not near to pick up one of the plastic sacks?

That brings up an interesting question ... not considering the legality ... is it immoral to steal a drug dealer's money?

I personally would have no problems with it.

.... I mean ... uh ... other than staying alive after .

If you are going to watch for the Space Station to fall ... make sure you wear a construction "hard-hat".

Recommend that your enemies do the same, with a magnet attached.

This is WONDERFUL news !

I have a Motorola 9500 Iridium Satellite Phone on the Iridium System.

If while sleeping, I should teleport to 2 miles high over the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and have my phone with me .... it's comforting to know I can phone home.

And incoming calls are FREE!

.

It's a LOT cheaper just to eat a bar of soap!

California is totally and completely infested and saturated  with all kinds of nutcases.

..at every level of the social stratum.

This is the new "normal".

Realize you are talking about a State that gives sanctuary to criminal trespassers who illegally violate National Borders.

...and welfare...

... and driver's licenses.

It used to be that California was four years ahead of the rest of the States.

Not any more.

The State has been completely ruined by "progressive" liberal Snowflake National Socialists who think they are Democrats.

I am beginning think the San Andreas Fault was put where it was in anticipation of this.

A dog is the only thing on Earth that will love you more than it loves itself ... but there is infinite variety ... even at both ends of the human spectrum ... and at the canine spectrum.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Several of the cases were brought to secular authorities. The problem was that there was no evidence that the elders in any congregation or anyone from the branch organization ever brought even one of the allegations to the authorities. Also, it wasn't just "1,006 cases." There were 1,006 alleged child abusers, and about 1,800 alleged victims recorded. There were also abusers who abused the same victim several times, which is typical.

Thank you JWI for your comprehensive analysis.

I stand corrected.

1006 alleged abusers, and 1800 alleged victims recorded ... from the WTB&TS Society's OWN subpoenaed records.

That would make TTH's estimate of  JWs having 10% of the problem of the rest of the 'world", examined by the ARC somewhat high ... and it should be perhaps 2% ?

Did I get that right?

Your scalpel analysis is consistently better than my admitted chainsaw analysis.

6 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

A controversial POST has NO place in, TRUE Christian life, 2 Timothy 2:23-24 therefore, WE are ALL guilty and sinners, defying Christ Words, Matthew 5:22  with the exception of some of us, trying to set the record straight, from those calling themselves “witnesses”. James 4:17, 1 John 3:18

I seriously doubt that the Bible writers were considering 2,000 years into the future, in a world they knew NOTHING about ... and could not POSSIBLY even imagine 2% of it, when they crafted their Epistles.  

As the Apostle James once said in a moment of candor, as was his custom ...

" Verily I say unto thee, what we say here, and what we do here in the service of the LORD, is only what we know about, and does not necessarily include sophisticated discussions among highly intelligent adults, including Internet Blogs."  - James 27:3, Ebedieah 4:6, etc.

I am not a doctor, but I think you need to switch from blue pills to red pills ....

 

Jesus said the Scripture OF HIS TIME was inspired of God, and beneficial for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight.   It was 30 plus  years after his death that what we know now as the New Testament was penned ... and the "Guardians Of The Doctrine", as Geoffrey Jackson referred to the Governing Body, admitted in the Watchtower that they are neither inspired, or infallible in interpreting Scripture.

DUH!

 

Allen, Allen Allen ..... sigh ......

48 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

There you go again with your ignorance about Stephen Lett’s video. What the HELL was he referring to, you arrogant person? NOT the pedophilia but the Watchtower cover ups. Something you, ANNA, and JWinsider have insinuated in the PAST. Just as you keep insinuating about cover-ups NOW! Why donÂ’t YOU, JWINSIDER, and others start speaking the TRUTH, and REPENT on your ungodly devotion.

 

As you the rest, LOOK AT YOUR OWN POST, DOUBLE TALKER!

 

Whatever meds you are on .... check with your Doctor.

...

7 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

When something goes wrong, be grateful things are exposed in order to do what is HUMANLY possible to better a situation.

Since you mentioned me three times in your immediately preceding post, here is my third reply.

I agree with you on THAT comment AllenSmith ... if it had not been for OUTSIDE sources ... all the secular authorities ... we would know NOTHING about all that is going on concerning this issue.

Bro. Stephen Lett in a JW.ORG Video declared quite vehemently, looking straight into the camera,  that all the accusations about JW Pedophile issues and cover-ups were  " .. APOSTATE LIES !!"

.. and this was about two months before we learned from the ARC ... an arm of the Australian Government, of 1006 perpetrators in over 5,000 instances that were hidden from the Brotherhood, in secret files in various Congregations, and in secret sealed blue envelopes sent to the Australian JW Branch Offices.

In my PERSONAL experience ...  have never seen or heard, even through gossip,  about any JW pedophiles in over 50 years ... so I am inclined to believe ( somewhat ) TTH's claim that we do better than 90% of the "world" in that regard .

As much as what IS really going on burns my butt ... I am even more concerned about the institutional cover-up via THREATS of disfellowshipping ... and ACTUAL disfellowshippings, of the Brotherhood ... Brothers and Sisters in the Congregations  .... victims .... and those who wanted to go to the police, but under threat of expulsion, and actual expulsion and abandonment, did not, and were SILENCED.

In over 50 years, I have repeatedly personally seen in many, many Congregations,  and experienced myself, many similar unjust things.

This I have PERSONALLY seen, as institutionalized policy ... in actual practice.

It is our immoral capacity for institutionalized extreme CRUELTY TO EACH OTHER, in the name of righteousness ...  that boils my blood.

I am not discouraged by how I am treated by the "world". 

I can shrug that off.

I am weary to my very soul of how we,  to defend the indefensible,  we treat each other.

... and don't even get me started about the perversion of Justice in the Delaware cases of the Society's Lawyers doing everything they can to keep lawsuits from being adjudicated, ACTIVELY perverting Justice using contributed donations .... and their similar efforts in every court case I have read about, and every court transcript I have read.

Want to test this hypothesis about honesty and integrity?

Go to the JW.ORG website, where legal developments in the news concerning JWs are highlighted ... and see how much honest real legal news about THIS there is.

The last time I checked, it was ZERO

It is NOT Theocratic Loyalty to defend the indefensible.

If it had not been for OUTSIDE sources ... all the secular authorities, and others incensed by injustices ... we would know NOTHING about all that is going on concerning this issue.

...... and that's the fact, Jack.

5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Meanwhile, research all my deleted POST to find the argument about incorrect information.

Can you advise me just HOW?

Without you telling me HOW ... I do not know how to research a deleted post.

... and just what "incorrect information" from deleted posts ( !!! ) am I being ordered to research?