...... may I suggest that as the issues are debated, that full and complete quotes IN CONTEXT be provided to strengthen one's points being asserted .. with citations for check-able references..

Bad scholarship is still scholarship ... but it is bad in that it is designed to deceive... or deceives by default.

Try to be clear enough so that the evidence or fantasys asserted are irrefutable, as if what you write will be used in a court of law to either exonerate you ... or convict you of a Capital Crime, and if you fail, you will be impaled butt first on a wooden stake while still alive.

The hours of our lives are too painfully few to suffer fools ... or in good conscience ... be a fool.

Could you please supply  more detail?

With what you have posted so far, it can be instantly dismissed.

Perhaps both quotes in context, so a person who does NOT have any idea what you are talking about, has a clue.

Further, if you want to be taken seriously, don't just "give a clue" .... spell it out in unmistakable detail with such clarity and hard facts that whatever you are trying to say becomes defacto irrefutable?

With what you have provided so far, it can quite fairly be instantly and completely dismissed.

Fair enough?

I tell you what AlanF, since you have done THAT much research, it is clear one of two, possibly three  things:

1.) You are onto something, and we have all missed it, or

2.) You are deliberately lying, and making this stuff up completely out of context, which means you are dishonest, evil, and can be completely disregarded, or

3.) some third scenario that is worse than number two, that I have not discerned.

Since you have ALREADY done the research, why not, for a change,  give some credibility to your posting by showing the full quote in context.

By that I mean several paragraphs BEFORE the listed quote, and several paragraphs AFTER the listed quote.

Further, instead of shorthand, spell out "Watchtower and Awake, etc. in your citations.

I for one, would certainly entertain anything you have to say, if it does not on the face of it the same appearance of the factual statements that Chancellor Hitler was a vegetarian, a dog lover, and loved his mother, and niece, and made his nation into an industrial powerhouse.....which taken out of context makes him appear a fine person.

AS it stands, what you say MAY be true, in context, but the probability is approximately the same  with what you have posted so far, as the probability that the Earth is flat, which without PROOF, can be instantly dismissed without any further investigation whatsoever.

8 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

The AU Watchtower Branch Office *FREELY* turned over whatever discoverable material was necessary for the inquiry.

And SPECIFICALLY how do you know this to be a FACT, AllenSmith?

Remember, Gerritt Losch, GB, was SUBPOENAED to testify on a similar case in California, and even AFTER SUBPOENAED ... refused to testify, and the WTB&TS was fined 11.5 MILLION DOLLARS.

SPECIFICALLY how do you know this to be a FACT, AllenSmith, that the Australian Branch Office and Kingdom Halls FREELY turned over 5,000 and more SEALED blue envelopes of confidential data to the ARC ?

Hmmmmm ?

ZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

" Quoting the Watchtower does really take away from what you were trying to say earlier regarding Man’s visual and idolatry, as you said. Idolatry isnÂ’t that hard to identity and people who adorn something or someone other than God and ignore the teachings of Jesus are obviously the odd ones out when it comes to idolatry. Surely you could have done better than that. In addition to that, some of us tend to be very, very careful of whom we paint as an opponent because a small mishap can truly change something without notice." ...... and a LOT more ...

That is quite a thesis you have there ... and what I read seems well considered, but .......

15 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

Why does Jehovah only accept the worship of a man dressed up like Adolf Hitler in a business meeting?

I agree with your sentiments, but the question is absurd and based on a false premise.

Any question based on a false premise can be legitimately ignored as a prima fascia absurdity.

The fact that the two "lines" are almost parallel means to me that he has a more conservative investment strategy.

11 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

Your gods have it both ways.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Although most JWs adore and revere, and kowtow to the Governing Body, in defacto worship, I do not.

I well know it was an understatement when they finally admitted, forced by  Geoffrey Jackson's testimony in the ARC case no. 29 Investigations on Child  Abuse,  in  the Feb. 2017 Watchtower, that they were "neither inspired, or infallible"..

I figured that out a half century ago.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It was their job. It is not a worthless endeavor. Witnesses will learn from it themselves. But it pales in insignificance next to securing other barn doors so that their cows do not flee.

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Thanks for your insincere vote, JTR! It's not the First time "keeping up with the Kardashian".

You misunderstand AllenSmith ... they WERE  sincere upvotes. 

If I make it into the New System, I plan on going down to the local cemetery and play a GREAT game of Whack-A-Mole.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

essentially, zeroing in on the 1006 from the group whose overall abuse-prevention record is 10 times better than the general population is securing the barn door after the cows have fled.

You ought to stay away from trying to use facts, TTH.... it was 1006 PERPETRATORS with over 5.000 cases of abuse.  And the WTB&TS of Australia refused to comply with requests for records, and they HAD TO BE SUBPOENAED, and were produced under threat of prison for contempt of court.

I upvoted those two for you AllenSmith .... because you just condemned yourself with your own paw tracks.

 Now THAT'S entertainment!

Have a nice day!

... try not to spit and drool at the same time.

Neither you or TTH live in a world of hard facts ... and when you try, you get them wrong.

Hmmmmm...

I watched the whole video proceedings of ARC Cases No, 29 and 54 ... and although it was extremely cringeworthy, seeing the Elders, Branch Officials, and Geoffrey Jackson all lying under oath, and looking like deer in the headlights .... I did not find ANY of it boring.

I was however embarrassed FOR them.

Being on Video looking like idiots, is like a bug being trapped forever in fossilized amber.

I looked at TTH's figures and there is so much wrong with how the problem was set up as to be embarrassing to look at.

I weary of giving detailed explanations, so I will just give an analogy. Either you get it or you don't.

TTH teaching a class::

"Ok students... If a strong man can dig a post hole in 60 seconds ... how long will it take for 60 strong men to dig that same post hole?"

If you answered one second ... the math works out, but it is not reality based.

1.) Reality is what is always behind you with sharp claws and a ravenous appetite, and is ready to eat you alive if you forget it is back there, and get distracted.

2.) All of us live in a fantasy world of our own constructions, to one extent or another.

3. Being able to determine how much... how long... how high ... how deep, etc. and how MANY keeps our opinions in check.

...sometimes.

If some idea cannot be expressed in numbers ... hard factual numbers ... then they are ONLY opinions ... and if they are not reality based, Reality will have us for lunch.

Nobility sometimes comes in civilian packaging.

My information is over 40 years old, but I remember a survey taken by the Catholic Church where:

20% were sexually active heterosexuals.

20% were sexually active homosexuals.

20% were sexually active pedophiles.

40% were celibate.

Unfortunately I no longer have or remember the source.

TTH:

As usual, you have confused two things ( ...and more...) with other things that are not applicable, and instead of addressing the issues (Remember issues?  No? ... nevermind...) tried to distract with attacks against me. 

That's OK .... I find it entertaining.

I see how YOU look at the world as if everything you see is distorted by your agenda, as do you about me. 

Fair enough.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So now you seem to be walking back on your acknowledgement that the JW organization is 10 times more successfull in preventing child abuse than the general Australian population.

My statements were crystal clear and completely unambiguous .... They can be dissected to ascertain EXACTLY what I meant to say, and the sentences can be diagrammed. to show that pictorially.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Unilke Jehovah's Witnesses, who are politically neutral, or at the very least, keep their politics to themself, you wear yours on your sleeve. You have made it very clear who you regard as the better political leader, even calling HRC the Devil.

I wear EVERYTHING on my sleeve, including long sleeve shirts and watches.  I find that being honest with everyone scares the people away whose goofiness would clutter up my life with irrelevancy .... and I lead a very content and peaceful life.

.... and as an aside .... you being wrong about almost everything ... I have NEVER called Hillary Rodham Clinton the Devil ... I merely stated as a point of relevant humor that she does not worship Satan ... Satan worships her!

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Therefore, I would expect you to be maligning and castigating him, as you do here with the ones whose record is 10 times better

You expect a LOT, TTH ... but expecting me to castigate someone who withing the limits of human foibles, has been doing everything I personally would do if I was President, with the possible exception of making dueling once again legal, and re-instituting public hangings, which I am all for ... as well as other Barbaric practices that I as an admitted Barbarian would find helpful .... there is NO REASON for me to castigate Donald Trump.

In another time, if he was my enemy, and I could manage it, I would wear his skin as a rain coat.

if however ... IF HOWEVER .. he claimed to represent Jehovah God as the Guardians of the Doctrine, as the Governing Body claims ... I would rip him a "new one"

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Don't let them tell you there is nothing to Russian collusion. Dig into it!

About that, you apparently try to keep up with politics ... so you know that in the past few weeks the "Onion" has been peeled back to reveal that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party and their cronies are the ones that have been colluding with the Russians, and it goes all the way back to Ted Kennedy.

As of this date, Feb 25, 2018, the only "Russian Collusion" has been with HRC as Secretary of State selling U.S. Uranium to the Russians, and her financing the fake "golden showers" dossier through her lawyers and the DNC.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You do not hesitate to do it and more with Christian leadership. Do it with the political leader you favor. 

When Trump claims to be the titular head of God's Organization on Earth, and spews forth volumes and volumes of edicts on every manner of human behavior ... IN THE NAME OF GOD .... I will do exactly as you suggest.

Now that I hopefully have dispensed with this irrelevancy .. perhaps you would care to comment on any of the ISSUES and facts I presented .... or do you accept them all at face value?

Hmmmmmm?

Yeah.... I have many times beaten a dead horse, and it managed to bite me.

What single decision had the greatest effect on history?

I think it was arguably when the Dinosaurs "were just not working out...", and God dropped a big rock on what later came to be known as the Yucatan Peninsula.

Life is tough .... then you die.

"Don't Stop Believin'"
 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Pursue this point if you wish, but also point out, at least in a footnote, that the ones you are castigating are 10 times more successful in preventing child sexual abuse in the first place than the general Australian population.

Footnote:

EVERYONE that follows the Bible's examples do better.

even atheists.

Like you, my loyalty is to the Jehovah, his Christ, and the Brotherhood.

Unlike you, my loyalty to its leaders is only when they deserve it.

When they deserve it is very easily determined.

It is determined by how much open, honest, complete and full disclosure has been made on the JW.ORG web site, and in the Watchtower, and at the Kingdom Halls globally to the Brotherhood, and when they are following the Christ, and not making up stuff out of thin air.

How should we honestly evaluate them, based on THAT?

22 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Study 54 of the report, a follow-up to Study 29, makes possible an apples-to-apples comparison. Study 54 looked at the 17 instances of child abuse from the Witness organization that had been reported in the interim, from August 2015 to January 2017. Nine were historical cases and none involved an elder. All occurred in a familial setting. Of the seventeen, two had refused to report as they were adult survivors and it was their right not to report. The number of Witnesses in all Australia at the time was 67,418.

You stated " Study 54 looked at the 17 instances of child abuse from the Witness organization that had been reported in the interim, from August 2015 to January 2017."

That was AFTER the Society was caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so to speak.

Hey Dick Tracy, go back to your squad car and get the files subpoenoed from the Australian Kingdom Halls and Bethel offices showing over 5 THOUSAND cases reported to the Elders, and not ONE  reported to the police.

The true test of their INTEGRITY is how much open, honest, complete and full disclosure has been made on the JW.ORG web site, or in the Watchtower, or at the Kingdom Halls globally to the Brotherhood.

What grade would you give them on THAT?

To the best of my knowledge ... and please feel free to show me I am wrong ... not a single word of the ARC hearings has been breathed on the website.

.... or in the Watchtower.

.... or in talks at the KIngdom Halls.

It seems they are totally consumed with "Pillowgate", and explaining by specific reference why two naked brothers at Bethel, sitting in chairs across from each other, watching each other masturbate, IS NOT PORNEIA.

If you have watched the "Pillowgate" videos produced by the Society, you know THEY EVEN MADE A VIDEO FOR NEW BETHELITES .... "CLARIFYING" .... THAT!