James Thomas Rook Jr.

 Jeremiah 7:30-31

30  "For the sons of Judah have done that which is evil in My sight," declares the LORD, "they have set their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it.

31  "They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.

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Arauna:

Did you reference Jeremiah 7:31 as a commentary on how we currently handle institutionalized disfellowshipping and shunning?

21 minutes ago, Arauna said:

The proof will be in the eating of the pudding will it not?   

That is probably the SMARTEST thing I have seen here in a long time .... soon enough ... perhaps too soon, we will all know.

Meanwhile, I am going to TRY not getting burned at the stake.

One man's terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter.

A "whim" is often in the eye of the whiner.

Infinite variation.

You may have noticed  from the above, TTH, that I ALWAYS try to answer your specific questions, and you NEVER answer mine.

18 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Neither system is perfect ... and and I have stated many MANY times earlier on this blog ... Justice we only get from Jehovah God ... everything else is just "due process".

However, there is a difference in what "due process means in various "systems".

Total Anarchy has one definition of "due process"

Transylvanian dictator Vlad the Impaler had a definition of "due process"

Soviet Josef Stalin had a definition of "due process".

The Nazi Gestapo and Department of Justice had a definition of "due process".

The WTB&TS has a definition of "due process"

The USA court systems have their definitions of "due process"

etc.

etc.

If your life was on the line, which system would YOU choose to get what approximates Justice?

 

I have edited two points of the quote of my above referenced comment  (click read more), changing  two points to red and bold to highlight what two ideas  go together.

... but of course since you are looking at anything I say trough AGENDA DRIVEN sunglasses, you do not comprehend what you read, so I will try to be clearer.

Ahem .... the following six lines quoted are separated by "air spaces" ... that means they are SEPARATE  definitions ... that means they are SEPARATE judicial systems.

1.) Transylvanian dictator Vlad the Impaler had a definition of "due process"

2.) Soviet Josef Stalin had a definition of "due process".

3.) The Nazi Gestapo and Department of Justice had a definition of "due process".

4.) The WTB&TS has a definition of "due process"

5.) The USA court systems have their definitions of "due process"

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I mean, that last remark was as long as it was just plain unhinged - comparing the Watchtower to Stalin, the Gestapo, and to ...... Vlad the Impaler?! 'Surely he has lost his mind!' I said, and I expected even your fellow opposers to sing - "and another one gone and another one gone. Another one bites the dust!"

I clearly was talking about six completely separate and distinct forms, styles and characteristics of applied "Justice".

Completely different....completely separate.

I find it VERY SAD AND TELLING  that you, yourself made the connection, true or false, or partially true or partially false, that

" I mean, that last remark was as long as it was just plain unhinged - comparing the Watchtower to Stalin, the Gestapo, and to ...... Vlad the Impaler?! "

You AND YOU ALONE are the one that made that connection between deliberately isolated points ... you and you alone ... when my point was ONLY ... and what was also clearly stated :

" If your life was on the line, which system would YOU choose to get what approximates Justice?"

Which as usual ... as always ... the questions you NEVER answer.

I do know WHY you never answer my  questions, but go off on a tangents of misconstruction.

                                                        It's painful                                                                                                       

  although I deliberately kept the ideas separate ... with your own mind you saw that connection.

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6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Your period of silence after that last comment was, for you, astoundingly long. Or so it seemed to me. And now you are back. Where it was relief tinged with sadness, now it is sadness tinged with relief. Or is it the other way around?

TTH: ".. period of silence"?

You look for meaning in personal attributes, like dissecting a picture of a guy taking off a sleeve stained suit coat and becoming more worldly, as in Sunday's WT, and see nuances where there are none whatsoever.

You might have well have said he was being chased by bees!

".. period of silence"?

I do have to sleep and eat, and go to the ..... grocery store, and do yard work, etc., etc., etc.

Besides ... it's not the swing of the pendulum, as it goes to and fro ... but the essence that drives it, that makes us go.

Wha-de-do-DAH.

It is my considered belief that TRUTHFULLY AND ACCURATELY answering those three questions quoted and numbered above ....  in detail .... will provide a REAL answer about whether there is REALLY such a thing as Justice, and Mercy, in the Christian Congregation ... and ignoring those three questions ... OR AVOIDING them ... or EVADING them AS STATED ... is a cop out, and a proof of institutional cognitive dissonance on a global scale.

OK ... looking at the above replies ... I see we euphemistically will have to "agree to disagree" ... so since you have decided to treat my questions as only rhetorical on the Las Vegas issue, and to not see the it as the general public saw that incident ... I will repeat for your consideration a hypothetical scenario  a bit closer to home, only this time I am NUMBERING the questions (1,2,3) you are invited to consider, and opine on.

It makes it easier to excoriate me if that's how you see it, without confusing any issues.

 

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"Quod est necessarium est licitum"

That which is necessary, is legal.

If I ... with premeditation ...  I deliberately murdered a Sister out in Service by shooting her through the head through her car side window ...who was screaming in horror and pain, her body and face ON FIRE ...burning to death in a car fire, and nobody could not get her out ....

1.) ... how do you think the Congregational Judicial Committee would handle it?

2.) ... how do you think a civil Jury would handle it?

3.) ... how do you think any sane, reasonable adult would see it?

 

 

"Quod est necessarium est licitum"

That which is necessary, is legal.

If I ... with premeditation ...  I deliberately murdered a Sister out in Service by shooting her through the head through her car side window ...who was screaming in horror and pain, her body and face ON FIRE ...burning to death in a car fire, and nobody could not get her out ....

... how do you think the Congregational Judicial Committee would handle it?

... how do you think a civil Jury would handle it?

... how do you think any sane, reasonable adult would see it?

 

Neither system is perfect ... and and I have stated many MANY times earlier on this blog ... Justice we only get from Jehovah God ... everything else is just "due process".

However, there is a difference in what "due process means in various "systems".

Total Anarchy has one definition of "due process"

Transylvanian dictator Vlad the Impaler had a definition of "due process"

Soviet Josef Stalin had a definition of "due process".

The Nazi Gestapo and Department of Justice had a definition of "due process".

The WTB&TS has a definition of "due process"

The USA court systems have their definitions of "due process"

etc.

etc.

If your life was on the line, which system would YOU choose to get what approximates Justice?

In Las Vegas, about two weeks ago, a man stole a truck when the keys were left in the ignition .. admits it openly, and is NOT repentant ... and can NEVER be repentant. 

The whole WORLD ran the story of this theft .... he did it ... he confessed to it  ....and he was brazenly proud of it!

Under WTB&TS POLICY which is always enforced according to THAT SPECIFIC CRITERIA  ... if he had been one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he would be disfellowshipped as an unrepentant thief with an apostate morality ... completely different than that of the Governing Body's morality.

Not only would he be cut off from the Congregations, but all his friends he held dear, if they were also Jehovah's Witnesses.

 Under the WTB&TS system there is in REALITY  .....  NO PROVISION FOR MERCY OR COMMON SENSE.

Only the "rules".

Judicial Committees are NOT Judges ... only clerks. 

But ... they DO JUDGE.

The fact that he used that stolen truck to rescue people being massacred, the wounded and dying, to the hospital, does not fit into the robot software program of the current "clerk" administered rules.

DO YOU KNOW ANY REAL LIFE EXAMPLES ... ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD where the WTB&TS has shown mercy for an unrepentant  brazen wrongdoer?

Everything I have seen and know about is that Witnesses FEAR the WTB&TS judicial machinery, because it has ZERO provisions for common sense mercy.

DO YOU KNOW ANY REAL LIFE EXAMPLES ... ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD where the WTB&TS has shown mercy for an unrepentant  brazen wrongdoer?

A Watchtower reference would be nice, about now.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is such a thing as modesty and so I rarely spill. But for some time I have been the model for photos such as this.

Well THH, you have the natural physical advantage .... no one else in the world knows how to get a wireless Bluetooth WIFI garden hose sprinkler nozzle to work.

Since you have ABSOLUTELY no sense of humor, AllenSmith, you did not recognize which part of my comments were serious, which were a play on screwball perceptions, and which were a joke.

I assume you are otherwise a very fine theocratic Brother..

The way I understand the "Thread Rules" is that if the person who STARTED the thread wants it to stay pristine, then it is inappropriate to violate those wishes and wander afield with comments. Also,  we did experiment with making things "formal" but it was very cumbersome, so the Librarian agreed that it could be a 'free for all mud fight" and if necessary, he or JWI, who have administrator status, would split the tangled thread and move parts to new headers, as needed.

Since I started this thread, apparently I get to indicate my preferences ... and as most know, I LIKE a free association, who knows where the conversation goes, from your nose to your toes kinda brawl.

I am not sensitive, and take no offense, even if deliberate and malicious, under the working theory that vitriol is YOUR problem, and watching you have a stroke is entertaining, and the Librarian and many here know this.

So, carry on troops, and follow IDEAS, wherever they might go!

3 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

Make sure your on the right road Brother. I want to remember your sweetness

Thanks!

My wife and my six dogs think I am sweet ... others, not so much ...

Sometimes the cowards they try to tickle my ears, but I bite their fingers !

MMmmm... chicken fingers!

Yummy!

AllenSmith:

THANK YOU!

43 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

The onslaught and the underline here with media nowadays is too much fake news and vengeance. San Diego superior court judges take it personally when their decision get “vacated”. Then they begin to abuse their power and authority by imposing new charges upon a defendant for none compliance to symbolize their original decision. Now, the penalty imposed on the Watchtower is nearing 3 million dollars since it was imposed in February of 2016, that, this “fake” internet news outlet (San Diego Reader) highlights now.

However, even though this news was “updated” 3 days ago by this outlet, it also commented about it on June 24, 2016. Therefore, recycling unworthy news to stimulate the ex-witness fanbase, and revived by unscrupulous people, here. So, those here that believe this news is new, it’s laughable!!!!

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/jun/24/ticker-judge-sanctions-jehovahs-witnesses/#

Another thing to remember about what the Watchtower has to deal with in San Diego court system, the abuse of power that goes on in San Diego. This is NOT the first time, nor will it be the last time in a corrupted human system to overreach a decision by its authority. The State of “California” is well known for overreaching in an attempt to set new standards.

http://ncfm.org/2013/08/action/california-parents-file-federal-racketeering-lawsuit-against-family-court-judges-charge-criminal-extortion-bribery-abuse-of-office/

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-judges-discipline-20150404-story.html

Another thing about the “regular” courts in San Diego is, when it comes to race-based accusations, they take care of their own.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-filner-civil-harassment-trial-closings-2016mar30-story.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-ucsd-male-student-20150715-story.html

Whether your posting is actually true, or not, is completely immaterial.

What YOU were ably to find out ... is EXACTLY why Judicial systems, including OUR OWN ... INCLUDING OUR OWN! ... need openness, and transparency, and witnesses monitoring and watching what is going on, and able to RAISE HELL, rightly or wrongly, when things are not right.

YOU YOURSELF have proved with real life examples ... the underlying principles of why I started this whole thread, and made the comments and analysis I did.

OUR current system, unlike what Jehovah God gave to the Israelites, which worked very well for over two thousand years .. . is shrouded in secrecy, obscurity, and intimidation. 

The average Publisher does not even know the Elders Handbook exists, and were told by the Governing Body not to share it or even allow it to even be read by Sisters.

Again, Thank You for your un-intended confirmation of how total Freedom of Information is the Right to be free of normal human Tyranny.

Within our own ranks ... this type of information is IMPOSSIBLE to have, and asking for it will get you investigated for apostasy.

....... in the totally secret and infamous  "Little Back Room".

It's ALWAYS later than I think ... that's why I wear a wristwatch.

.

... too old a reference?

Yeah,

I look in the mirror and forget what I look like, just like the Scripture says ...

That's why I use a picture of Yassar Arafat to shave by.

.

Usually, its the Father who doles out the severe punishment at

home, but a wise Mom knows how to fix that problem ....

MOST

On 4/11/2016 at 10:28 PM, Jay Witness said:

I continue to hear some JW's believe that shopping at second hand shops is risky since one could purchase a demon infested object.

This is true for jewelry, such as antique pocket watches purchased at second hand stores, that have the dial hands missing, particularly the second hand, and it has been replaced by a second hand second hand and not a first hand second hand.

You would think that a first hand second hand is a demon to find, but no, its the second hand second hands that keep your mind in mind.

.... and also, to detect possession, which is 90% of the law, and you can't do it yourself .... WHO YA GONNA CALL?

WAIT FOR IT .... WAIT FOR IT ... WAIT FOR IT....

Ever notice that demon possessed objects are always discovered by Sisters from stuff at a yard sale?

They are NEVER discovered by men buying a used car at a car auction sale.

I mean ... if you buy a used car and it has no demons, just stop making the payments ... and it will get  ... *coff* .... repossessed!

I dunno, I was born under a YIELD sign ...