James Thomas Rook Jr.

The question above remains unanswered by the Society ..... so So I guess the GB Helpers would be the College of Cardinals.

I just thought this was SUCH an important question ... it bears repeating! And just as important ..... who does the Watchtower consider to be Clergy, and who does the Watchtower consider among us NOT to be Clergy. I am not an Elder .... can I baptize someone in a municipal pool without getting yanked into "Room 101"? If I am "Clergy" ... am I going to be a defendant in a criminal trial for conspiracy?

Following that line of thought ... would a Circuit Overseer and Branch Overseer be labeled as Monsignor and Bishop?

Billy: You downvoted my last two posts. Are you mad because you are flat wrong ... or is there something specific about those two posts you can rationally explain where I am wrong? It's a fair question. The key to the whole thing is the WTB&TS claiming the same privileges and titles of the Catholic Church ... which they do in court, time after time, yet claim in the Kingdom Halls that we are NOT clergy.

I can be AFFORDED the opportunity to claim a free Elephant at the Zoo, but unless I invoke that OPPORTUNITY ( NOT a requirement..) the Elephant stays at the Zoo. If I represent myself as an Elephant handler, and demand the privileges of a trained professional, it complicates my life, and opens me to MANY financial, ethical, moral, and legal considerations I would not otherwise have. I do not want to be ELEPHANT CLERGY. The Secular Authorities even have rules for the ethical treatment of Elephants, how they are caged, fed, treated, etc. There are different rules for Veternarians, Zoos, Owners .... and even Restaurants. Like the WOPR computer said once when playing Global Thermonuclear War Games ... "The only way to win ... is NOT PLAY"

The fluff is removed if the privilege is RECANTED, and no longer claimed. The OBLIGATION still exists to report to authorities, where required by law, as stated above for all people, and legal entities, Removing ONE element from the equation changes the answers, but does not eliminate the other elements.

I cannot top THAT!

They suggested "Rook's World".

The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!! If we RECANT it ... it will INSTANTLY cease to be a factor in any deliberations. That little piece of fluff is REMOVED from the considerations of any firm, persons', corporations', or religious organizational OTHERWISE legally mandated reporting requirements. Even though in courts of law the Society now claims the Elders and up are Clergy, and that the World Headquarters is a "Monastery", for real estate zoning purposes, and we should be treated with the same deference as the Catholic Church, this position is held when it is beneficial, and claimed not to exist when it does NOT serve the Society's financial and political interests. The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!! And CLAIMING something does NOT make it so. A sad little Lizard claiming ancestry with a T-REX dinosaur only makes it a sad little lizard ... but since happy lizards are in such short supply, I might have a penchant to humor him. But NOT when The Society demands they be treated like Clergy .... that is flat out DANGEROUS. To understand that, which I do, would require an essay of massive proportions. It's a lot simpler to watch the 1939 movie "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", with Charles Laughton and Maureen O'Hara and understand how important the concept of "Sanctuary" is as it has evolved over the centuries, and also the "Priest/Penitent" religious custom which is embodied like concrete in the societal matrix ... and even extends to lawyers who have inviolate "lawyer/client" privilege. That is between ONE person and ONE other person. Although when it is to their advantage, the Society has represented themselves in court many, many times as being a hierarchical organization "exactly like the Catholic Church", in matters of Clergy/Penitent privilege, and also in the ownership of Kingdom Halls and other real estate assets, the fact remains that a Congregational trial is held before three or more people, with full details the Circuit Overseer, copies to the Society's legal department, prepared by the Congregational Secretary, so all in all, not to even mention back channel gossip from Elder's wives whose curiosity would put Sherlock Holmes to task, this "confidential matter" might be shared with 8 to 15 people. These Clergy/Penitent laws have a 1200 and more year history in Roman and British and others' "common law" and it has ALWAYS been between ONLY two people ... at least in Theory. In actuality, the Priests of the Catholic Church have ALWAYS acted as political intelligence officers for the nations they were prostitutes for, and of course for the Vatican, so while giving absolute lip service to the Priest/Penitent relationship, in order to get the gullible faithful to believe in THEM, as they served as spies with that information, serving their own interests. People KNOW this, but believe to the very core of their bones it is not the way things really are. They want to see examples of honorable men, where there are none ....or at the least, very few. Very VERY few. The Society is trying to have it BOTH ways ... trying to convince the legal systems that they are due the same respect, deference, and privileges long firmly established by the Catholic Church,, when in fact BOTH are completely disingenuous. Simpler to watch the movie, than for me to continue for the next 20 pages. If that does not work, read the 1831 novel by Victor Hugo. I have an audition to host a local radio talk show next week, and I did not sleep at all last night, mind racing like a mile wide tornado, so I am completely worn out. Also, remember Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 48: "The Bigger the Smile ... the sharper the knife".

“We’re Jehovah’s Witnesses, so we don’t do that. That does not sound like a personal opinion to me. Sometimes a short answer, phrased in words familiar to the audience, keeps them from wondering what the hell you said really means, and scratching their head in wonderment, until it bleeds.

... and conversely, more lives have been saved by using nuclear radiation in medicine, than everybody ever harmed or killed by the same, starting with Madam Curie isolating Plutonium, by a factor of several hundreds of thousands of people, well into the millions since 1945.

.....

I would bet real money that this would solve the problem ... or at least 95% of it .... for EVERYBODY concerned. I wonder what ulterior motive is being cherished NOT to have this simple solution adopted everywhere?

My guess is that it's not what happened within the family ... it was the coverup within the Congregation that the Law is concerned about, as respects the Congregation. Same thing happened to Richard Nixon ... it was not the Watergate burglaries (for which he had plausible deniability) ... it was the systemic coverup that destroyed his Presidency.

yep.

I suspect that (since it was two years ago...) that my apparent one side responses are responses to someone with whom I was having a discussion, who subsequently REMOVED all their objections, replies and comments to my argument premises replies and comments, and rebuttals .... making it appear, two years later, like a one sided conversation.

So ...if that is so ... what did the 10,000 or so anointed, baptized, dedicated Christians do for the previous three years? Get together and play soccer? ... or just wander around, occasionally bumping into each other?

OK, Outta Here .... YOU tell ME how it was that the Christian Congregation developed during the time of Jesus' three year ministry. I am open to any idea that passes the common sense test ... and is constant with the life and times of the Jews during and after Jesus' time on Earth. Your nebulous, foggy statement ...... by itself..... is totally meaningless.

I find it very difficult to imagine Jesus and the Apostles in the ministry for THREE YEARS, and no Christian Congregation formed from those being taught and baptized. How did these new ones accomplish THEIR ministry and make new converts, as did in fact happen? In fact, I don't believe it. It does not pass the "common sense" test.

I seriously NEED a Helicopter!

FIRST thing one needs to do is GET OUT OF CALIFORNIA, and get to a State where what money he DOES have will go twice as far. I lived in California several years, all up and down the state, but I would NEVER go back. For new construction he could probably multiply his buying power by six to ten times, but at 85, you only need a home to last perhaps 20 years at the very outside, and as a practical matter, 10 years. I would not subsidize unrealistic expectations, based on fantasy. ...uh .... except my own.

To put this in a proper perspective ..... more people were killed THIS WEEK by bacterial and viral infections, than have EVER been killed by nuclear energy.

The Christian Congregation was founded DURING Christ's lifetime ... the Apostles were assembled, not to play soccer on Wednesday afternoons. Disciples by the tens of thousands were not congregated for a concert. By the time he was executed there were many thousands of believers, and practicers. Perhaps I should rephrase my original paragraphs ..... Remember .... Among the Jewish Congregations of God, before Roman Military Occupation, trials were held in the city gates, where EVERYONE could see, speak up, and judge the judges.... and judge the PROCESS of Justice. Among the Jews, the "whole body" of Jews involved in adjudication of sin and crimes worked well for several thousand years ... and it worked well in the Early Christian Congregation for about 270 years along the same model ... until the rise of the Roman Catholic Church, whose evolution was guided by Roman political concerns, under the lead of that master politician, Emperor Constantine. .... which is how the system evolved into what we have now. Just remember ... in Jesus' time, during his life and for about 270 years afterward ... such trials were held before the whole Christian Congregation. THAT is the example we should be following ...

Was that your answer?