James Thomas Rook Jr.

it is the same mantra , take advantage of whatever and whomever you can and who cares what it destroy's in the process, thus playing both sides to their own benefit.

The next thing you know, the 40 days or so in which we have articles, talks and videos leading up to the Memorial of Christ's Death every year, we will be calling "Lent", and Memorial Invitations will allude to the Cadbury  Bunny.

During the American Civil War Abraham Lincoln was accused of being "two faced" and his aides called the newspaper reports to his attention.  His reply was "If I was "two faced" ..... would I be wearing THIS one?

The question above remains unanswered by the Society .....  so So I guess the GB Helpers would be the College of Cardinals.

@Anna Quote " In their eyes we are clergy. "
Who is this 'we' ?  Is this the Elders or all JW's ? 
 

The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!!
If we RECANT it ... it will INSTANTLY cease to be a factor in any deliberations.
That little piece of fluff is REMOVED from the considerations of any firm, persons', corporations', or religious organizational OTHERWISE legally mandated reporting requirements.
Even though in courts of law the Society now claims the Elders and up  are Clergy, and that the World Headquarters is a "Monastery", for real estate zoning purposes, and we should be treated with the same deference as the Catholic Church, this position is held when it is beneficial, and claimed not to exist when it does NOT serve the Society's financial and political  interests.
The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!!
And CLAIMING something does NOT make it so.
A sad little Lizard claiming ancestry with a T-REX dinosaur only makes it a sad little lizard ... but since happy lizards are in such short supply, I might have a penchant to humor him.
But NOT when The Society demands they be treated like Clergy .... that is flat out DANGEROUS.
To understand that, which I do, would require an essay of massive proportions.  It's a lot simpler to watch the 1939 movie "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", with Charles Laughton and Maureen O'Hara and understand how important the concept of "Sanctuary" is as it has evolved over the centuries, and also the "Priest/Penitent" religious custom which is embodied like concrete in the societal matrix ... and even extends to lawyers who have inviolate "lawyer/client" privilege.
That is between ONE person and ONE other person.
Although when it is to their advantage, the Society has represented themselves in court many, many times as being a hierarchical organization "exactly like the Catholic Church", in matters of Clergy/Penitent privilege, and also in the ownership of Kingdom Halls and other real estate assets, the fact remains that a Congregational trial is held before three or more people, with full details the Circuit Overseer,  copies to the Society's legal department, prepared by the Congregational Secretary, so all in all,  not to even mention back channel gossip from Elder's wives whose curiosity would put Sherlock Holmes to task, this "confidential matter" might be shared with 8 to 15 people.
These Clergy/Penitent laws have a 1200 and more year history in Roman and British and others' "common law" and it has ALWAYS been between ONLY two people ... at least in Theory.
In actuality, the Priests of the Catholic Church have ALWAYS acted as political intelligence officers for the nations they were prostitutes for, and of course for the Vatican, so while giving absolute lip service to the Priest/Penitent relationship, in order to get the gullible faithful to believe in THEM, as they served as spies with that information, serving their own interests.
People KNOW this, but believe to the very core of their bones it is not the way things really are.  They want to see examples of honorable men, where there are none ....or at the least, very few.  Very VERY few.
The Society is trying to have it BOTH ways ... trying to convince the legal systems that they are due the same respect, deference, and privileges long firmly established by the Catholic Church,, when in fact BOTH are completely disingenuous.
Simpler to watch the movie, than for me to continue for the next 20 pages.
If that does not work, read the 1831 novel by Victor Hugo.
I have an audition to host a local radio talk show next  week, and I did not sleep at all last night, mind racing like a mile wide tornado, so I am completely worn out.
Also, remember Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 48:
"The Bigger the Smile ... the sharper the knife".

I can be AFFORDED the opportunity to claim a free Elephant at the Zoo, but unless I invoke that OPPORTUNITY ( NOT a requirement..) the Elephant stays at the Zoo.
If I represent myself as an Elephant handler, and demand the privileges of a trained professional, it complicates my life, and opens me to MANY financial, ethical, moral, and legal considerations I would not otherwise have.
I do not want to be ELEPHANT CLERGY.
The Secular Authorities even have rules for the ethical treatment of Elephants, how they are caged, fed, treated, etc. 
There are different rules for Veternarians, Zoos, Owners ....  and even Restaurants.
Like the WOPR computer said once when playing Global Thermonuclear War Games ...
"The only way to win ... is NOT PLAY"
 

The fluff is removed if the privilege is RECANTED, and no longer claimed.
The OBLIGATION still exists to report to authorities, where required by law, as stated above for all people, and  legal entities,
Removing ONE element from the equation changes the answers, but does not eliminate the other elements.

I can be AFFORDED the opportunity to claim a free Elephant at the Zoo, but unless I invoke that OPPORTUNITY ( NOT a requirement..) the Elephant stays at the Zoo.
If I represent myself as an Elephant handler, and demand the privileges of a trained professional, it complicates my life, and opens me to MANY financial, ethical, moral, and legal considerations I would not otherwise have.
I do not want to be ELEPHANT CLERGY.
The Secular Authorities even have rules for the ethical treatment of Elephants, how they are caged, fed, treated, etc. 
There are different rules for Veternarians, Zoos, Owners ....  and even Restaurants.
Like the WOPR computer said once when playing Global Thermonuclear War Games ...
"The only way to win ... is NOT PLAY"
 

So here we have two opposing views on the Clergy Privilege laws.  
I'm not into laws and I would presume it is different in different countries anyway, but my idera still stands if it would work.
There is one point that as James said and i've always thought it, the Clergy Privilege law applies one on one, and once a group of people know the circumstances then that law no longer applies. But i will admit to being out of my depth on the subject.  
 

Sometimes a short answer, phrased in words familiar to the audience, keeps them from wondering what the hell you said really means, and scratching their head in wonderment, until it bleeds.

Will this show air in Rio Linda?

Uh oh.
The Rook Factor

The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!!
If we RECANT it ... it will INSTANTLY cease to be a factor in any deliberations.
That little piece of fluff is REMOVED from the considerations of any firm, persons', corporations', or religious organizational OTHERWISE legally mandated reporting requirements.
Even though in courts of law the Society now claims the Elders and up  are Clergy, and that the World Headquarters is a "Monastery", for real estate zoning purposes, and we should be treated with the same deference as the Catholic Church, this position is held when it is beneficial, and claimed not to exist when it does NOT serve the Society's financial and political  interests.
The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!!
And CLAIMING something does NOT make it so.
A sad little Lizard claiming ancestry with a T-REX dinosaur only makes it a sad little lizard ... but since happy lizards are in such short supply, I might have a penchant to humor him.
But NOT when The Society demands they be treated like Clergy .... that is flat out DANGEROUS.
To understand that, which I do, would require an essay of massive proportions.  It's a lot simpler to watch the 1939 movie "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", with Charles Laughton and Maureen O'Hara and understand how important the concept of "Sanctuary" is as it has evolved over the centuries, and also the "Priest/Penitent" religious custom which is embodied like concrete in the societal matrix ... and even extends to lawyers who have inviolate "lawyer/client" privilege.
That is between ONE person and ONE other person.
Although when it is to their advantage, the Society has represented themselves in court many, many times as being a hierarchical organization "exactly like the Catholic Church", in matters of Clergy/Penitent privilege, and also in the ownership of Kingdom Halls and other real estate assets, the fact remains that a Congregational trial is held before three or more people, with full details the Circuit Overseer,  copies to the Society's legal department, prepared by the Congregational Secretary, so all in all,  not to even mention back channel gossip from Elder's wives whose curiosity would put Sherlock Holmes to task, this "confidential matter" might be shared with 8 to 15 people.
These Clergy/Penitent laws have a 1200 and more year history in Roman and British and others' "common law" and it has ALWAYS been between ONLY two people ... at least in Theory.
In actuality, the Priests of the Catholic Church have ALWAYS acted as political intelligence officers for the nations they were prostitutes for, and of course for the Vatican, so while giving absolute lip service to the Priest/Penitent relationship, in order to get the gullible faithful to believe in THEM, as they served as spies with that information, serving their own interests.
People KNOW this, but believe to the very core of their bones it is not the way things really are.  They want to see examples of honorable men, where there are none ....or at the least, very few.  Very VERY few.
The Society is trying to have it BOTH ways ... trying to convince the legal systems that they are due the same respect, deference, and privileges long firmly established by the Catholic Church,, when in fact BOTH are completely disingenuous.
Simpler to watch the movie, than for me to continue for the next 20 pages.
If that does not work, read the 1831 novel by Victor Hugo.
I have an audition to host a local radio talk show next  week, and I did not sleep at all last night, mind racing like a mile wide tornado, so I am completely worn out.
Also, remember Ferengi Rule of Acquisition No. 48:
"The Bigger the Smile ... the sharper the knife".

I will repeat what i wrote previously. 
It could be announced from the platform in every KH that all types of crimes reported to the Elders would be reported to the authorities. Then people would be able to make the decision whether to tell the Elders or not.
If it was made clear that ALL CRIMES would be reported to the authorities then I wonder if that would remove the 'clergy privilege' excuse. 
As for the others things you mentioned Billy, if they are not crimes then the authorities do not need to be involved. I suppose in some countries homosexuality may still be a crime, I don't know. 
Did I read on here that an Elder at the ARC said that he would not report a murder ?  If so then where is his love of neighbour ? 

You know John, sometimes people really do have their own opinion.

Spritually qualified men are qualified by the spirit. Jehovah decides.
There were only anointed men (and women) in the early Christian Congregation

I think the question is not so stupid. Ask any Jehovah's Witness in Greece and will tell you that the voting was forbidden in the past. And even now some brothers and sisters advertise in the preaching work that we go to vote but we vote with a white paper... and of course the people answer:... then why go voting in the first place.... because in Greece the winner takes all neutral votes... so is like voting the winning party. Anyway I think God will not be displeased if I will vote a good mayor who will fix the road in front of my house over a mafioso who will go to elections for mayor just to steal people's money. I mean there is no connection between my mayor and God's kingdom.

So ...if that is so ... what did the 10,000 or so anointed, baptized, dedicated Christians do for the previous three years?
Get together and play soccer?
... or just wander around, occasionally bumping into each other?

I find it very difficult to imagine Jesus and the Apostles in the ministry for THREE YEARS, and no Christian Congregation formed from those being taught and baptized.
How did these new ones accomplish THEIR ministry and make new converts, as did in fact happen?
In fact, I don't believe it.
It does not pass the "common sense" test.
 
 

The Christian Congregation was founded DURING Christ's lifetime ... the Apostles were assembled, not to play soccer on Wednesday afternoons. Disciples by the tens of thousands were not congregated for a concert.
By the time he was executed there were many thousands of believers, and practicers.
Perhaps I should rephrase my original paragraphs .....
Remember .... Among the Jewish Congregations of God,  before Roman  Military Occupation,  trials were held in the city gates, where EVERYONE could see, speak up, and judge the judges.... and judge the PROCESS of Justice.
Among the Jews, the "whole body" of Jews involved in adjudication of sin and crimes worked well for several thousand years ... and it worked well in the Early Christian Congregation for about 270 years along the same model ... until the rise of the Roman Catholic Church, whose evolution was guided by Roman political concerns, under the lead of that master politician, Emperor Constantine.
.... which is how the system evolved into what we have now.
Just remember ... in Jesus' time, during his life and for about 270 years afterward ...  such trials were held before the whole Christian Congregation.
THAT is the example we should be following ...

Just remember ... in Jesus' time, such trials were held before the whole Christian Congregation, while among the Jews, before Roman  Military Occupation,  such were held in the city gates, where EVERYONE could see, speak up, and judge the judges.... and judge the PROCESS of Justice.
Among the Jews, the "whole body" of Jews involved in adjudication of sin and crimes worked well for several thousand years ... and it worked well in the Early Christian Congregation for about 270 years ... until the rise of the Roman Catholic Church, whose evolution was guided by Roman political concerns, under the lead of that master politician, Emperor Constantine.
.... which is how the system evolved into what we have now.

I have known MANY elders whose children have "left the Truth", because their fathers paid more attention to congregational matters than their own children.  There is such a thing as "theocratic" burnout.
And that fire has an insatiable hunger.

I would bet real money that this would solve the problem ... or at least 95% of it .... for EVERYBODY concerned.
I wonder what ulterior motive is being cherished NOT to have this simple solution adopted everywhere?

But surely Billy if these problems have been going on for fifty years or more, and the JW Org has a bethal/head office in each country , then surely someone within each head office should be up to date on all procedures. These are not new problems. The GB or their legal department has 20 years worth of accusations on record just in the USA, and probably much more earthwide. I cannot see any excuses to any of this. 
And if all Elders were told to report everything to the police and/or outside authorities then it would probably make their lives a lot easier. 
It could be announced from the platform in every KH that all types of crimes reported to the Elders would be reported to the authorities. Then people would be able to make the decision whether to tell the Elders or not. 
Apart from some strange idea of wanting to know how many pedophiles are in the JW Org, what is the point of just keeping it all on record ? Keeping records is not protecting anyone. And our neighbours are supposed to be everyone, so the protection of everyone, especially children, is important. How can keeping internal record protect people outside the Org ? Are the Elders going to follow pedophiles around all day to keep them from attacking people outside ? 
Tell the authorities, the Police, then the matter can be dealt with by those trained to deal with it.