James Thomas Rook Jr.

The other chip manufacturers use a technique known as "clean room" ... where there are two rooms isolated from each other.  In one room the hardware designers reverse engineer the Intel chips ... and without writing down the code .. write a set of SPECIFICATIONS of what that portion of the Intel chip is doing.
Then they (AMD or ARM designers) pass the specifications to room No. 2, and with no hints of HOW Intel designed their chips, the reconstructors, from the specifications, design new chips that will exactly emulate what Intel's chips do ... without using ANY of the same code, never having seen it.  All this is heavily documented.
Since 1995 this has been working well, until October of 2016, when one of the AMD disassemblers in clean room no. 1 was eating lunch, and  set a pack of specifications for clean room no. 2 in his chair , and sat down on and smeared a paper towel with six "Chips Ahoy!" cookies.

Not always a solution though is it? It very much depends on who takes their place!

Without hard evidence ... I try not to think at all about what other people do, or don't do.
I had three Elders surround me at the Kingdom Hall, and well within my "air space",  one asked me  without any verbal foreplay  whatsoever: "What do you think about the Governing Body?".
I replied without thinking .... "I do not think about them at all!".
They didn't bother me again for almost a year.

We each have our deeply felt opinions about every imaginable issue ... and we are entitled to believe, or feel, anything that makes us, become us.
It's when we wish to impose on others .... under the color of "It is God's will" ...... that the road to hell gets another load of good intentioned  extra large paving stones.
I personally am very comfortable with the idea  that people that abuse animals should be tortured to death ... and take several weeks to do it .....  but I would NOT expect that viewpoint to be shared by others ... NOR would I drag up some ambiguous scriptures to support that idea, or imply that it is the "Will Of God!".
"Do not go beyond the things that are written" .... was written for a good and sound REASON.
Perhaps even to protect everybody ... from me.
 

Who is going to remove  men at the apex of the pyramid?
Outside of secular authorities who might arrest and imprison them for violation of secular law, there is no one WITHIN the .ORG to fire them.   Even if imprisoned on some charge, like embezzlement or something else, they would still be the titular figureheads of the .ORG
Jehovah God COULD turn us all into winged frogs .... but current hard evidence shows that he does NOT interfere with any aspect of mankind's follys, whether they be deliberate, or through chance and circumstance , or just being plain goofy and clueless.
Many fantasy, wishful thinking bogus examples to the contrary ... the Governing Body KNOWS this.
They cannot be fired for crimes, incompetence, or just being plain goofy and clueless.
No matter WHAT they do ... the money keeps rolling in ....
 

200%+ agree

In any Corporation, the ONLY way to correct things that are seriously wrong, is to fire those responsible.
NOTHING else actually works !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No mechanism exists,  to fire those responsible.
The only thing that will sustain such a system is an unlimited supply of free money.
 

If you keep on knocking through regular prayer and continued reading of the Bible and yet are still not moving forward, apparently that is not enough.
Put aside for a moment the question of whether or not the GB is doing a good job; the point is that there needs be some organized human component of the divine/human interface to move God's work forward in a practical way. Otherwise, individual Christians end up merely flailing away ineffectively, and in time, are absorbed into the popular culture.

No, I've never seen you do that. Nor have I seen myself do that. What I wrote was that you are often seen "opposing some small bit of truth that shouldn't even matter that much in the long run" and that you don't actually deal with the evidence. You often just throw out unrelated points in response to evidence. Even if these unrelated points are perfectly true, they have nothing to do with the evidence you are opposing and denying. In this case, you are even opposing the Watchtower's version of events.
If that question was directed at me, I never thought any of these particular points were unclear (about ALL arrangements being set in place by the end of the millennium), nor did I ever say they were. Perhaps you are referencing the fact that earlier you said: "I [Allen] think I [Allen] have been quite clear . . . " After you said that, I pointed out that on this particular topic you have been very clearly opposing the evidence, and the Watchtower, too. Your method of responding to evidence by throwing out a lot of unrelated points is clearly typical for you, but it's also very clear what you are likely doing. From past experience interacting with you, I'm guessing that you find it impossible to admit a mistake. That's OK with me. I don't particularly like that style; it's not for me, but it's one I've seen a lot. I wouldn't judge you over this, but for your sake, I hope it's not a reflection of your offline persona.
In the meantime, I'll assume you still have found no evidence for your theory about Russell's teaching regarding the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-17.

Your post was worth an up-vote just for this one point alone (about not participating in warfare). In general, it's my own favorite when discussing why Witnesses have a right to claim "authority" and "high ground" over other religions who feel we should have no right to try to convert others, or imposing our own view of the Bible as better than theirs. Other doctrines like Trinity and Hellfire are up there too, but this one should appeal most closely to the true practice of Christianity. Wisdom is proved righteous by its works.

Your answer:
I certainly don't claim to understand everything about Russell's ideology. I'm actually not even insisting that he erred in judgment. He may very well be right when he claimed that the great crowd of Revelation 7:14 will be in heaven. Our own current teaching on that particular verse could change. Of course, this would not change the Scriptural fact that a great crowd of people would survive the great tribulation and live on earth. And it would not change the fact that Russell also knew --from places outside this particular verse-- that there would be a great crowd of people on earth, which you and I already accept.
But it makes no sense for you to complain about a claim that Russell might have erred if you also admit that there was a time when he didn't have all the facts and would only eventually receive God's guidance in certain matters. I'm sure that you yourself would also admit that he might have erred in judgment before having all the facts. But you haven't been clear if this means that his "initial" judgment was wrong and he eventually came around to seeing that the "great crowd" would NOT be in heaven, or if he never believed what he said, and/or meant something different all along.
Neither choice would explain why Rutherford also believed the "great crowd" would be in heaven . This was something Rutherford believed up until at least 1933, and probably up until closer to 1935.
I'd be happy to change my opinion about what Russell said, if you could show the evidence that he meant something else, or didn't mean what he said, or changed his opinion on this matter over time. That's not just for you, but for anyone who can show any evidence.
Based on years of interaction, I have a feeling that you dig in your heels and insist on making claims without evidence because you seem anxious to prove your own superior knowledge about Russell and the Bible Students. On certain points, I think you have provided valuable references and resources. On this point however, it's not just Russell's own words you are up against, but you are also opposing the more current understanding of the Watchtower when the beliefs of Russell and the Bible Students are reviewed:
*** w64 12/1 p. 724 Out of the Tombs to a “Resurrection of Life” ***
For many years Christian Bible students understood the “resurrection of life” to include (1) the church or congregation of the 144,000 joint heirs of Christ, and (2) an unnumbered “great company” of spiritual Christians not included in the 144,000 but serving under them in heaven I think you've seen evidence that the Watchtower is correct here, and that your claim is incorrect. Bible Students held this belief from as far back as the 1880 Watchtower, and put it in print as recently as 1933. I didn't double-check the Watchtowers of this period, but I see it in Vindication (1932) and Preparation (1933). (When the Jonadab class was still considered separate from the "great multitude.") It's possible that it was even repeated up until the doctrine was changed in 1935.
Here's a mention of that in 2003 and elsewhere:
*** w03 2/15 p. 19 par. 9 What Does the Lord’s Evening Meal Mean to You? ***
But on May 31, 1935, in a discourse given at a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., it was Scripturally explained that the “great crowd” (“great multitude,” King James Version) refers to the “other sheep” who live during the time of the end. (John 10:16) After that convention, some who had previously partaken of the Memorial emblems stopped partaking because they realized that their hope was earthly, not heavenly. *** w98 2/15 p. 20 par. 8 Glorious Freedom Soon for the Children of God ***
In 1935 the “great multitude,” or “great crowd”—formerly thought to be a secondary spiritual class that would be “companions” of the bride of Christ in heaven *** w95 2/1 p. 13 par. 16 A Great Crowd of True Worshipers—From Where Have They Come? ***
For a time Jehovah’s servants believed that the great multitude (or, great crowd) of Revelation 7:9, 10 . . . Because the Bible says that they are “standing before the throne,” it was thought that they would be in heaven, not on thrones, ruling as joint heirs with Christ, but in a secondary place in front of the throne. They were viewed as less faithful Christians, ones who did not show a spirit of true self-sacrifice. In 1935 that view was corrected. You said that following a quote from Volume 2 of "SiS" The Time is at Hand. Unfortunately, that quote and that book also does not support your opposition to Russell's clear statements, and your opposition to the Watchtower's more recent statements quoted above. That book was written when Watch Tower publications were still consistent that both the 144,000 and the "great multitude" would go to heaven. 
After this you quoted quite a few things from Volume 3 of "SiS" Thy Kingdom Come, especially the portions about the wheat and tares. If you read more of Russell's words on the subject you will see that the portion you quoted was not relevant to his understanding of Revelation 7:9-17. Russell did have a confused belief about the tares, but this was necessary because if you read the contemporary Watch Tower articles on the subject you will see that he actually did tie the tares to other Christian groups and religions of Christendom, and he therefore had to try to remove the idea that being "burnt in the fire" referred to their destruction. After all these "burnt" ones were still going to heaven in Russell's view. Watch carefully how Russell managed this amazing feat, in the same book you quoted, Thy Kingdom Come:
Is not this a most remarkable agreement between this stone "Witness" and the Bible? The dates, October, 1874, and October, 1881, are exact, while the date 1910, though not furnished in the Scriptures, seems more than a reasonable one for some important event in the Church's experience and final testing, while A.D. 1914 is apparently well-defined as its close, after which the world's greatest trouble is due, in which some of the "great multitude" may have a share. And in this connection let us remember that this date limit--A.D. 1914--may not only witness the completion of the selection and trial and glorification of the entire body of Christ, but it may also witness the purifying of some of that larger company of consecrated believers who, through fear and faint-heartedness, failed to render acceptable sacrifices to God, and who therefore became more or less contaminated with the world's ideas and ways. Some of these, before the end of this period, may come up out of the great tribulation. Many such are now being closely bound in with the various bundles of tares for the burning; and not until the fiery trouble of the latter end of the harvest period shall burn the binding cords of Babylon's bondage shall these be able to make their escape--"saved so as by fire." They must see the utter wreck of Great Babylon and receive some measure of her plagues. The four years from 1910 to the end of 1914, indicated thus in the Great Pyramid, will doubtless be a time of "fiery trial" upon the Church  . . . What Russell did here, of course, was to replace the fiery destruction of the tares (weeds) with the idea that these actually represented the place from which the "great multitude" would be saved from. The "fire" became a time of "fiery trial" with a purifying effect. It becomes 4 years of a great tribulation (from about 1910 to 1914) that would come on the Church. The "great multitude" would be saved out of this "great tribulation." This fire would evidently also burn some of the tares, but notice how he turns the focus of that fire to purification and salvation: "burn the binding cords of Babylon's bondage" and being "saved so as by fire" and "the purifying of some of that larger company." This particular sleight-of-hand interpretation was soon dropped from Russell's teachings, and the tares began to refer only to those fit for destruction, while the less worthy "great multitude" continued to be seen as having a heavenly destination. (See the full article from the February 1916 Watch Tower, for example, quoted in a previous post.) 
Understanding who Russell referred to doesn't have to fail modern readers. There are people who can even read Shakespeare, or the KJV of the 17th century and understand it. Reading Russell's English is relatively straightforward compared to older English.
I hate to have to point it out again, but I get the feeling you are doing something that you have become infamous for doing in the past. Your name has become almost synonymous with opposing some small bit of truth that shouldn't even matter that much in the long run. And then when you are shown that you are opposing the evidence, and even opposing the Watchtower in this case, you dig in your heels and start going on about things that were not really related to the question. And another favorite tactic, apparently, is to copy quotes from somewhere that might seem relevant and might make some people believe that you found "evidence" you were right. Perhaps it even convinces some people. But it's very difficult for me to see how you can look at evidence of something and just oppose it or deny it without responding to the evidence and without giving any counter-evidence.

I will wait for Gone Away's explanation, as it may be entirely different, exactly the same, or anything in the middle.
Even when Jehovah fought for and with the armies of ancient Israel, individual soldiers were killed. How do you explain THAT? It may not have "been the issue", or "in the overall scheme of things" spiritually, but it was them who did the dying..
I SEE your viewpoint ... I just disagree with it. 
I cannot believe that the reason that Jehovah God is letting millions of good people die, one at a time, or in groups, is to ALLOW his arch enemy freedom of action.
I believe something very common to people causes the death of these six Witnesses by drowning.
1.) perhaps the road was wet, and the car skidded into the river, ditch, pond or whatever, or
2.) perhaps the driver fell asleep at the wheel and ran off the road, or
3.) perhaps a tire blew out and they lost control, or some other very common occurrence.
I personally do not believe that God or Satan had ANYTHING to do with this accident .... that it was merely "chance and circumstance befall us all".
THAT is what makes the most common sense, and is the most reasonable explanation ... and dragging up a scripture to invoke supernatural intervention by acting, not acting, or some universal agenda is wrong, and delusional.
Oh, and there is one more of many more possibilities....
4.)  They never learned how to swim, and/or never visualized in advance what they would do if their car was submerged in water.
People that think about emergencies, and meditate on how to handle them, and mentally prepare themselves for specific scenarios, OFTEN don't have life killing emergencies .... merely "experiences ".
It is my opinion that Jehovah has NEVER protected individual people in everyday situations, as if he did, that means that the freedom to screw up would not exist, and true Freedom requires "chance and circumstances befall us all", without divine interference ... or it is NOT really Freedom.
If there is no REAL Freedom, and unfettered consequences full and complete .... then as night follows day ... there is no responsibility, as our actions are not our own.
You can't have it BOTH ways.
 

What is a Bullfrog had wings .... would he bump his rump every time he took off?
Jehovah and his type are energy creatures, without DNA.
They do not need this Universe AT ALL.
So ..... why did Jehovah create THIS Universe?
Hmmmmmmm ?
For the sons and daughters of DNA ... there is a LOT of  Real Estate out there !
Once you get out of the Earth's gravity well ... you are half way to ANYWHERE!
 

Therein lies the problem, Anna.
EVERYBODY who considers themselves a Christian, in every religion "Christian based" on Earth, has their own deeply felt ideas about what a Christian should be.
Makeup, tattoos, eating of foods or not, forbidding  clergy to marry, and the list is literally endless, as it varies with "new light", old light, flashing light, colored light, black light, etc.
Something that CAN be interpreted to fit a translator's, or interpreter's preconceived notions of their personal morays, WILL BE. 
This is where the common sense smell test has to take place.   Masturbation  MAY be alluded to in Paul's writings, but in the Old Testament, When Jehovah was a "harsher taskmaster", and NOBODY could obey the Old Covenant regulations .... THERE WERE NO REGULATIONS ABOUT THIS SUBJECT.
This was at a time when nearly EVERYTHING ELSE  was regulated.
Hard evidence, what we REALLY know from what is ACTUALLY clearly and unambiguously written is that Jehovah only mentioned it as something that Onan did, and the criticism was ONLY that he did not impregnate someone.
                                                            Look it up.
With this perspective, whatever Paul was talking about, common sense would dictate it was NOT THIS.
I am of course only guessing ... but understanding humans' propensity to want to control EVERY ASPECT of other peoples' lives ... and commonly  going beyond the things that ACTUALLY "written", and those same amateur tyrants can make a good living, by inducing guilt in the guiltless.
LEAVE THE PEOPLE ALONE.   ( God does NOT care about this )
DON'T BE A "BUSYBODY"  (... remember THAT scripture? )
Because ALL translators and interpreters are subject to what they do being filtered and colored through their own perspective, it is CRITICALLY important that we  do NOT GO BEYOND  the things in the Bible that are clearly and unambiguously written.
For a hundred years the Society has continuously "overreached" for organizational stability, and have had their butts chewed completely off! 
Overreaching, even with the best of intentions ( with which the road to hell is reportedly paved...)  generates tyranny,  and error .... and ingrained, induced mental illness.
Once this takes root, common sense no longer becomes all that common, and the Pharisees win, and that means the people  .... lose.
If they leave the TRUTH ... chased away ... it is the same as manslaughter.
And we who continue to carry these unnecessary heavy burdens become slaves, only to be  sheared and eaten.
Next thing you know, it will make perfect sense to treat our own family, spiritual and physical, with extreme cruelty.
There is a very simple solution.
"Do NOT go beyond the things that are written."
 

In keeping with Space Merchants pertinent and informative post, there is more to be said along those lines because  ... I have an addiction I cannot shake ... and I will relate my sad experience.
I am addicted to DiHydrogen Monoxide, (DHMO) also known as "hydroxyl acid".
I am told it is not a choice ... that I was born that way, as my Mother was also an addict, during my entire gestation.
If I don't get my daily "fix", I start feeling weak and "out of sorts".
If I can't get a supply in 24 hours, I start to get really physically ill, and my body starts shutting down.
I am told that that of I do not ingest  any for six days, I will certainly die ... but hydroxyl acid withdrawal symptom permanent damage will occur before then.
OF COURSE, it is dangerous what I am doing, and if I overdose on DiHydrogen Monoxide, I will have congestive heart failure and die.
In February, I was in the hospital for 4 days because of a DHMO overdose, and nearly DID die from congestive heart failure!
It cost about $16,000 to save my life from this!
MILLIONS of people have died by suffocation from DHMO, recently  six Jehovah's Witnesses in one day, as it is fatal if inhaled.
I know that it is used as an industrial solvent ... yet I cannot break this habit ... DHMO has me in its slippery grip, and I cannot do without it!
In vapor form, it can cause severe burns ... and knowing this I STILL cannot break this habit. Sometimes I mix it with other things and drink it with steam coming off of it !
It is so insidious that the word "Zohnerism" is used to refer to its dangers on the human mind.
I hope the Elders do not find out,  as anything that is not specifically permitted, is of course ... forbidden, and I am an unrepentant,  habitual DHMO addict.
Even though in February, it almost killed me, I REFUSE to quit!
 

The criteria Jehovah uses is quite clear.
Locally, it varies according to the year, location, and policy.

What is a Bullfrog had wings .... would he bump his rump every time he took off?
Jehovah and his type are energy creatures, without DNA.
They do not need this Universe AT ALL.
So ..... why did Jehovah create THIS Universe?
Hmmmmmmm ?
For the sons and daughters of DNA ... there is a LOT of  Real Estate out there !
Once you get out of the Earth's gravity well ... you are half way to ANYWHERE!
 

At airports, three times now, I have been caught by the TSA at airport security with several ounces in my possession. Each time they let me go, but it was confiscated. Embarrassing.

When I was younger, I would struggle with all these sorts of things .... and argue them.
Having experienced  "New Light" so many times I feel like an epileptic subjected to a  flashing strobe light ....
The famous phrase from "Gone With The Wind" movie comes to mind ...
"Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn !"
If I (or anybody) REALLY ever knows, it will be in the New System.
All else is speculation by people who PRETEND to know.
ESPECIALLY in "Revelation" which was to the Apostle John.
I suspect a LOT got lost in various "translations".
What could be simpler?
No muss, no fuss, no conflict.
 

In keeping with Space Merchants pertinent and informative post, there is more to be said along those lines because  ... I have an addiction I cannot shake ... and I will relate my sad experience.
I am addicted to DiHydrogen Monoxide, (DHMO) also known as "hydroxyl acid".
I am told it is not a choice ... that I was born that way, as my Mother was also an addict, during my entire gestation.
If I don't get my daily "fix", I start feeling weak and "out of sorts".
If I can't get a supply in 24 hours, I start to get really physically ill, and my body starts shutting down.
I am told that that of I do not ingest  any for six days, I will certainly die ... but hydroxyl acid withdrawal symptom permanent damage will occur before then.
OF COURSE, it is dangerous what I am doing, and if I overdose on DiHydrogen Monoxide, I will have congestive heart failure and die.
In February, I was in the hospital for 4 days because of a DHMO overdose, and nearly DID die from congestive heart failure!
It cost about $16,000 to save my life from this!
MILLIONS of people have died by suffocation from DHMO, recently  six Jehovah's Witnesses in one day, as it is fatal if inhaled.
I know that it is used as an industrial solvent ... yet I cannot break this habit ... DHMO has me in its slippery grip, and I cannot do without it!
In vapor form, it can cause severe burns ... and knowing this I STILL cannot break this habit. Sometimes I mix it with other things and drink it with steam coming off of it !
It is so insidious that the word "Zohnerism" is used to refer to its dangers on the human mind.
I hope the Elders do not find out,  as anything that is not specifically permitted, is of course ... forbidden, and I am an unrepentant,  habitual DHMO addict.
Even though in February, it almost killed me, I REFUSE to quit!
 

UPDATE: 9/18/2018
I had a tree about 150 feet tall and as big around as a barrel fall across my chain link fence in the side yard and crushed about three, ten foot sections of fence.
When it gets cooler, I will chain saw it and repair the fence.
90% of the tree is on my neighbor's property, but it is a big farm, so I will not have to move it.
It looks like we missed "Stormageddon"!
It was like being chased by a giant turtle.

UPDATE: 9/18/2018
I had a tree about 150 feet tall and as big around as a barrel fall across my chain link fence in the side yard and crushed about three, ten foot sections of fence.
When it gets cooler, I will chain saw it and repair the fence.
90% of the tree is on my neighbor's property, but it is a big farm, so I will not have to move it.
It looks like we missed "Stormageddon"!
It was like being chased by a giant turtle.

The whole point of my berating this particular issue is that is "low hanging fruit", that is to say,  this is an almost universal experience of almost EVERYONE that is alive, or ever lived, , whereas murder is (presumably) NOT., so it is an EASY subject to address ..... But even that is not the main  point.
The MAIN point is " Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
Jehovah God has spoken against MANY things, sometimes dozens or perhaps hundreds of times.  O.K. ... THAT is "O.K. to reiterate as good counsel, but for crying out loud ... things that He has expressed NO OPINION ON WHATSOEVER .... leave the people alone!
Do not load a heavy burden upon them because we feel down to OUR bones that it MUST be the will of God ... WHEN GOD IS IGNORING IT.
I DO NOT LIKE WOMEN WITH MAKEUP.
I feel it is disingenuous, and clownish, and narcissistic. 
But THEY like it, and I can see no reason to burden people by lying that it is the will of God that they not paint their faces.  I could even say this is "an unclean practice" and immoral, if I believed that (which I do not), and invoke ambiguous scripture, or MANY scriptures that pretended to support whatever  pet agenda I might have.
The MAIN point is " Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
When we do, it opens up a Pandora's Box of creating a mindset that allows for ANY pet idea or bogus agenda to become acceptable ... and when invoking the false authority of God to support our sad, criminal silliness, we dishonor God, and chase people AWAY from the TRUTH.
I could expound on this theme for many pages .... but the major problem we have in the Truth today, is Victorian culture and personal preferences ... ARE PRESENTED AS THE WILL OF GOD!
This actually slanders Jehovah and his Christ, making them hand puppets where we are supplying the words.
The MAIN point is " Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
This issue is just the classic example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
" Do not go beyond the things that are written".  
 
 
 
 

As my grown daughter once said to a "Brother" who was showing her  unwanted "attentions",
"If you don't leave me alone my Dad will kill you. Yes, he will go to prison, but YOU will be dead!".
This man and I had met, and he knew that was true .... and he turned his "attentions" elsewhere.
Sometimes the most complicated interpersonal problems have a simple solution.
... and I am a man who takes spiders outside when I can so as not to harm them.