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James Thomas Rook Jr.

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  1. Thanks
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    We stopped using that number in the 1970s. The jw.org site has a better approximation now:
    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jw-holocaust-facts-concentration-camps/
    About 1,500 of Jehovah’s Witnesses died during the time of the Holocaust, out of some 35,000 Witnesses living in Germany and Nazi-occupied countries. The cause of death is not known in all cases. Since research is ongoing, figures and other details may be updated in time. Executions: Close to 400 Witnesses were executed in Germany and in Nazi-occupied countries. Most victims were tried in court, sentenced to death, and beheaded. Others were shot or hanged without a formal court hearing. Severe detention conditions: More than 1,000 Witnesses died in Nazi concentration camps and prisons. They were worked to death or died as a result of torture, starvation, exposure to cold, illness, or poor medical care. As a result of the brutal treatment, others died shortly after their liberation at the end of World War II. Other causes: Some Witnesses were killed in gas chambers, subjected to deadly medical experiments, or given lethal injections. The last group under "other causes" could have been as many as 100 Witnesses. Further study on this shows that many of those deaths we might still be counting as "Jehovah's Witnesses" were actually "Bible Students" who were either still one of the other factions of "Russellites" or who had returned to "Bible Students" associations after certain issues they had with J.Rutherford especially after 1927 and after 1933.
  2. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to Melinda Mills in Jehovah's Witnesses Hierarchical View of Everyone   
    What hierachy? What madness! Not scriptural.  Remember the widow? Jesus said she put in more than the others.  Unless Jehovah and Jesus don't matter.  Elijah thought only he was serving God but God said he had 7000 that did not bow down to Baal. Same today.
     
     
  3. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    Yes. That's the point. Things like this can literally happen, and have literally happened in the past right up to the point of the miraculous divine intervention.
    In the past such things have happened even to peaceful secular groups who are perceived as being a threat to totalitarian and imperial states. Even if NOT exactly like what will happen during the great tribulation and Armageddon, it still creates a picture of the divine intervention that can be seen in a symbolic way that all Christians should experience when facing death for a righteous cause. Stephen's faith, for example, may have allowed him to see such a vision of divine intervention just prior to being stoned to death. Long prior to Armageddon, in the first three centuries of Christianity, perhaps hundreds of thousands faced death in such a manner in arenas, by mobs, by trial and execution, on stakes and crosses, by wild beasts, by fire, etc. Those true Christians in the past can still experience what is perhaps similar imagery in their very next conscious moments after their death, at the time of their resurrection. This imagery in the video should help produce a reason to feel the same courage in a potentially near future time when that same imagery may happen literally just prior to divine intervention. 
    So all this part of the video, and even the video itself is well done and should have a good effect on our courage.
    But you hit upon a major theme of the video, even if it was not very overt. It's also about being obedient to men. This could end up making people associate salvation with obedience to humans. I'm sure that @Witness might have mentioned this before somewhere else, but the very article quoted above by "Witness" about Gog and Magog is the article that you quoted from earlier in this topic:
    *** ws13 11/15 p. 20 pars. 16-17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today *** [Simplified Watchtower]
    The Bible says that this army is made up of “seven shepherds” and “eight dukes,” or princes. (Micah 5:5) Who are they? They are the congregation elders. (1 Peter 5:2) Today, Jehovah is using many faithful elders to shepherd and to strengthen his people for the future attack of “the Assyrian.” (See footnote.) . . .  (3) At that time, the direction that you receive from Jehovah’s organization may seem strange or unusual. But all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether we agree with them or not, because obeying these instructions will save our lives. *** w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today ***
    (3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. It's just my personal opinion, of course, but this is where I see a danger. We are telling people who expect to be surrounded by doubt and fear [the first words of the song in the video] to remember that for salvation they must be ready to obey instructions they hear through the elders that might sound strange and not make any sense "from a human standpoint." In other words, we are to accept and obey the instructions from humans as if they are from something greater than just a human standpoint.
    Notice that the simplified Watchtower version comes out and just plainly states that our salvation depends upon obeying strange and unusual direction from elders through the organization: salvation by obedience to men. Did we forget?
    (Psalm 146:3)  3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs [who cannot bring salvation, NWT Revised]. Calling them nobles, princes, or dukes, doesn't make a difference;  they are still sons of earthling man, humans. The idea above subverts the scripture.
     
     
     
     
  4. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    This is a case of being "righteous overmuch" or "self-righteous" and "haughty" like the Pharisees. Paul put the ideas together in Romans quoted above:
    (Romans 1:28-2:1) 28 And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting,  . . . haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, . . . having no natural affection, merciless. 32 Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them. 2 Therefore you are inexcusable . . . The haughty, self-righteous Pharisees and scribes, too, were "inventors of [such] injurious things" as Jesus pointed out:
    (Matthew 15:5, 6) . . .‘Whoever says to his father or mother: “Whatever I have that could benefit you is a gift dedicated to God,” 6 he need not honor his father at all.’ So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. They found ways to avoid the merciful treatment of relatives by trading it for evidence of how righteous they looked in front of others.
    (Matthew 6:2) . . .So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. . . . It's directly related to the issue of "table fellowship," too:
    (Matthew 9:10-13) 10 Later as he was dining in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began dining with Jesus and his disciples. 11 But on seeing this, the Pharisees said to his disciples: “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 Hearing them, he said: “Healthy people do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. 13 Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”
  5. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to Srecko Sostar in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    Yes, you are absolutely right. I went to see video clip ones again. People faces are not showing fear. I noticed that this little JW group assembled in the field because they obviously received some "instruction" to go there and wait. They were been warned in advance what they can expect and what would be the outcome. Because that they are calm, not panic at all. This scene support WT articles about receiving "instructions" that must be obeyed in Armageddon.     
    So, yes, their faces not showing fear as in compare to JW group in basement video from 2016, they show fear to some level. And when male part of group stand before women to protect them, looks like bros are ready to fight against black man uniforms.
    NOW:
    Group in basement 2016 video was obviously died and resurrected in New World. So, does this mean that this (military) attack on JW people was happened before Armageddon?? No, i don't see that from video. It is Armageddon scene.
    Because - This year group was also attacked from same kind of (military) people but not died at all. They were saved, by Christ action. 
    Question is:  How is possible that one JW  group died in Armageddon and in the same time other JW group is saved from same "enemy" in same global collapse called Armageddon ? 
     
  6. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to Srecko Sostar in NEWS RELEASES | As Supreme Court Hearing Nears, A Conscientious Objector’s Optimism Grows   
    ....according to secular Law he is guilty, no doubt. South Korea need changes by means of democratic voting for new laws. And voting will be done by "worldly" people not JW. Here is the catch No. 22.  Perhaps JW preaching service need to contain message in which "worldly" people will be motivated to vote for legal changes on behalf JW need for "civilian" service. 
    another one:
    "Based on Bible passages and the model of early Christianity, the Witnesses believe that Christians should abstain from war because they have no right to take human life." - article quote. 
    abstain from war  looks so familiar with Bible verse "abstain from blood". And what WT  done with "abstaining"? They fractioned blood and said, "now you can use blood in this elements and forms".   So, JW people have not to abstain from blood fractions.
     
    abstain?   abstain from blood, abstain from alcohol, abstain from fat in food .... abstain, must go to dictionary!  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/abstain 
     
    to not do something you could do, esp. something that is unhealthy or gives you pleasure:
    Some families abstain from eating fried food. If you abstain from voting, you do not vote although you are permitted to vote.
     
    to not do something, especially something enjoyable that you think might be bad:
    He took a vow to abstain from alcohol/smoking/sex   to decide not to use your vote:
    63 members voted in favour, 39 opposed, and 15 abstained.   indian english to stay away from work:
    During a recent general strike, employees of all major trade unions abstained.    
  7. Like
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in NEWS RELEASES | As Supreme Court Hearing Nears, A Conscientious Objector’s Optimism Grows   
    People confuse one issue with another.
    " On his day in court, Mr. Lee recalls, “I eagerly desired to prove that I was not guilty, since it was a sincere decision due to my faith and conscience.” He reflected on the early Christians disciples Stephen and Paul, who had eloquently defended their faith while on trial. “I think I spoke twice as well as I had when I practiced,” Mr. Lee declared. "
    The fact is ... HE WAS GUILTY ... of refusing military service.
  8. Like
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Judith Sweeney in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    Fear is the compliment of courage.
    A person cannot have real courage, without real, palpable fear.
    Trying to be courageous is a goal of True Nobility. 
    In the face of real danger, a person without fear CANNOT be courageous ... and if without fear, what he does is NOT courage, and he is also a fool.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather, deciding that something else is more important than fear.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."       -       Robert A. Heinlein
    There are all kinds of courage.
    Doing "The Right Thing" when in the clutch of circumstance and the game is stacked against you requires real courage.
    It's called everyday life.
  9. Haha
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Melinda Mills in More than 200 Russian Jehovah's Witnesses ask for asylum in Finland   
    IMHO I guess if I had enough RAM in my CPU I could overcome my DSL, AKA phone, and need to RSVP, PDQ,  by PDF,  before MTBF, and I R.I.P.
  10. Haha
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    They do in Russia.
    That was a good Heinlein quote. For a while he and Asimov were all the rage as sci-fi writers. Which did you prefer and why? (Not a trap, honest)
  11. Like
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    My first thought was, with the first shot,  all the surrounded JWs had to do is drop to the ground, and the soldiers would shoot each other!
    My second thought was ... why are all the soldiers wearing "masks", if they are going to shoot everyone?
  12. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    Fear is the compliment of courage.
    A person cannot have real courage, without real, palpable fear.
    Trying to be courageous is a goal of True Nobility. 
    In the face of real danger, a person without fear CANNOT be courageous ... and if without fear, what he does is NOT courage, and he is also a fool.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather, deciding that something else is more important than fear.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."       -       Robert A. Heinlein
    There are all kinds of courage.
    Doing "The Right Thing" when in the clutch of circumstance and the game is stacked against you requires real courage.
    It's called everyday life.
  13. Like
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW Convention 2018 Final Video - English Version   
    One thing the video was conspicuously missing was, looking with big brown eyes at the camera,  a sad, hungry puppy.
     
  14. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    Yes. There are contradictory motives for apologies, and contradictory reactions to apologies. We need to consider what is the right thing to do in each case. Some people apologize without apologizing as in "I take full responsibility for the failures (or a particular failure) that occurred during my time in office."  But just don't try to make them accountable in any way. I'm reminded of H.Clinton's Benghazi, or the TEN different "Benghazis," some much larger and more deadly, at various U.S. embassies under G.W.Bush.
    Depends on many factors: the mood, the Zeitgeist, the economy, the efficacy of the corporate propaganda machine (aka "the news"), etc. For example, Pope Francis is visiting Ireland in the middle of the worst mood of Catholics in Ireland ever. Ireland is still majority Catholic, yet a majority of Catholics in places are now voting for same-sex marriage, abortion, divorce law changes, etc.  And attendance at churches has fallen precipitously. Media outlets that used to be supportive of the Church are saying out loud that they are waiting for more than the usual apologies and prayers offered up in an attempt to heal the mood. It's not just sexual abuse, which was rampant in Ireland and was covered up through the Vatican, too. It was forcing unwed women to give up their babies, violence against women at "nunneries" and other abuse issues which keep getting turned up. Some say (NPR yesterday, for example) that every single family in Ireland has been affected in some way.
    It's a good thing it happened during a time when the U.S. and other Western European powers were salivating to find civil rights abuses in Russia. The world hardly gives a second look when things like this happen to groups and religions in Africa, India, Indonesia, etc. Things have to become very deadly to get attention elsewhere (as in Myanmar/Burma)
    You have a point, but I think those that kick up the biggest fuss about shunning around here, at least, are those who were shunned by their families over doctrinal disagreements. Moral issues are not such a big deal, when a person has chosen a lifestyle that keeps them away from natural and free association with relatives. Some fade into a separate life after a non-scriptural divorce, for example. Some give some evidence that they know better, might return someday, or even wish they could associate but just keep too many worldly associations and habits. After some length of time, I've seen these persons visit their Witness relatives and associate at weddings and funerals and large family gatherings as if nothing happened. But it's not that often, and the Witnesses aren't going out of their way to associate.  
    But I do see a bigger difference when the reason was doctrinal. Even bringing up the name of the person is rare or hushed or forbidden. They are still treated worse than those who left for moral reasons. And the feelings on the side of the person who is shunned for "apostasy" must hurt them much worse than we can imagine, if they believe they were only standing up for truth, or left for the "right reasons." When they still want to show love to their families, see their children, grandchildren or parents or grandparents, but their families don't want to see them it is the Witness who has "no natural affection." To them, the only reason they are treated badly and without any respect, in their opinion, is sometimes because they stopped believing something that was wrong anyway, and there was probably a time when they were too vocal about it, or too invested in the "truth" of what could turn out to be a minor issue. But even if they don't feel strongly any more about the particular issue, they can't conscientiously recant what they think is a Bible teaching. And if they have become atheists, they can't very well answer any of the questions correctly that could bring them back into association. I think this is the kind of "violence" that JTR is sometimes referring to, and it's something about which we should have more sympathy and empathy.
  15. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to TrueTomHarley in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    I'll be nicer to him.
  16. Haha
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to TrueTomHarley in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    I don't know the story of this. Of course, many have thrust it at me, but I have accepted someone's take that it amounted to little more than taking out a library card so as to get access to some writings. 'Oh, no, it's far MORE than that!' I have been told, as though they sat at Kofi Onnans right hand, shoving aside even the Vatican, but the prospect of secretly calling shots with the wild beast seemed so ridiculous that my interest tanked. I figured either it was a valid move that was misunderstood, or it was the clumsy move of some brother who is peeling potatoes in the Bethel kitchen for penance and will be for the thousand years. If you like, in the spirit of telling all that has been told innacurately everywhere else, I'd like to know of it, either here or through DM or through a link to where you probably wrote of it long ago.
  17. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    I'll link to it in the next couple days. Sounds like no one is really pushing for it at the moment, and that's not why I brought it up. I brought it up to show the kind of story that can be exaggerated too far on one side and minimized to the point of dishonesty on the other side. And of course, the exaggeration through a form of reductio ad absurdum is just another form of minimization. (e.g. "shoving aside the Vatican" or Chris Christie's "[yeah right] I actually was the guy working the cones out there." But you are basically right that it started out as nearly nothing (information access), except that it got out of control pretty quickly. And when the folks in Writing who were in on it saw some potential future advantages, they didn't back down, but just dug in their heels a bit harder and kept up with the requirements for their particular NGO membership. (The requirement that Writing could most easily meet was publishing an article in Awake! once or twice a year to give publicity to various U.N. initiatives, like UNICEF, for example.)
  18. Like
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    TTH:
    With your level of reading comprehension you should appreciate my rants, not disparage them.
    The perfect example of this is when you project or attribute to me the posting above, created by Sreko Sostar ..... not me.
    "Don't go to town with the "hands-off"  phrase, JTR. Just don't. We know where your obsession lies. Please refrain." - TTH
    If you don't want to read something  someone else has to say that might disagree with you .... you are on the wrong  venue.
    Could be worse .... you could be deceased, and voting Democrat.
     
    Helpfull Hint:  If you get tired at being sniped at by me, don't snipe at me.  I have the typical "engineers' personality" ...which is to say, not much at all, so I REFLECT other peoples' personalities.
    You shoot at me ... I shoot back.
     
     
  19. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to Srecko Sostar in JW Grandparents Who Shun Children Should Likewise be Banned from Contacting Grandchildren   
    If people like/want to be neutral and objectively, then both side in some disagreement must accept Court decision, no matter is such gave favor to left or right side of a bench. 
    So, when Court decide in favor for JW, all JW community is very happy and interpret decision how JHVH intervene and protect His people. When Court decide opposite of JW community expectation then JW have another interpretation why that happened.
    This quote you gave from ECHR showing how that street is two way street. If someone want to use this quote only for JW religion members and not also for other religion or non religion members then all that is in vain.
    If your family member (children) want to celebrate birthday and you as JW parent forbid them to express their  freedom to manifest and practice his or her religion  (or wish, or non religion attitude, or atheistic, or worldly ideas)  that is the source of conflict.”
    :)) please, do see how every sword have two side
     
  20. Haha
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in More than 200 Russian Jehovah's Witnesses ask for asylum in Finland   
    Back when the TMS instructor spent a lot more time on stage giving speech counsel between TMS talks, we had one (Brother Johnson) who showed us the importance of modulation, pauses, and emphasis by putting up the following on a chalkboard
    U.C.D.B's L.M.N.O.B's O.S.A.R.B's
    He read it blandly and it meant nothing. Then he read it again with new modulation, pauses and emphasis:, and it was easily understood to mean:
    You! See dee bees? 'ell, 'em ain' no bees.   [H*ll, them ain't no bees!] Oh [y]es [th]ey are bees! Some audible gasps were heard as they understood that he had just said "Hell" from the platform, but, somehow, it proved that you can get stung if you don't understand modulation, pauses and emphasis.
  21. Downvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. got a reaction from rcheathtx in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    This got my attention ....
    There is a difference between hyperbole, and utter and total nonsense cluelessness.
    I am sure Bro. Lett is loved by Jehovah, but down here on the ground suchlike thinking is contrary to reality (There is more evidence for something COMPLETELY unseen, and un-provable, and by rational people could be reasonably argued to be a COMPLETE fantasy ...), and is DANGEROUS!

    Lett on Gravity, Electricity, wind .mp4 Next thing you know, we will be specifically asked to blindly obey things that from a logical standpoint make no sense at all.
    I could not help but think that the "two inch brush" analogy was actually meant to defuse global problem of several BILLION hours of work has so few converts ... but hey, that could just be me, projecting.
    A common problem with many people.
     
     
  22. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to Space Merchant in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Not much of a movie, more of a small clip and or video based on the particular subject of said material of which it is trying to convey.
  23. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    I think your astute encapsulation of my modus operandi is just about right when you include my bracketed edit. I suppose one could make a semi-scriptural case for holding back and another for not holding back. My conscience tells me to not hold back, but I still hold back on some topics, and only "spill the beans" where those topics have already been brought up by others elsewhere. I'm sure I've said it before, but one of my primary concerns is the natural tendency to defend what we don't really know. This can end up making the defender ultimately look like a fool to someone who knows better, or has seen the strength of the evidence. But worse, it can lead someone to engage in dishonest dialogue.
    If I don't know something about a topic, I am very grateful for those who have tried to tell what they have learned publicly, even if it is difficult to find. But there are several topics about which our natural tendencies have already made some of us look like we don't care about truth as much as sustaining an assumed reputation. Some of the same "defenders" don't realize they are creating a reputation of caring more about reputation than about truth. This affects discussions of WTS history, chronology, child abuse, and a host of other topics, most of which get blown out of proportion by opposers. But some get blown out of proportion by JW defenders.
    Why choose an "obscure" Internet outpost such as this? My own parents, for example, learned about the "U.N." fiasco and said they talked to a friend about it who said that it never happened, nothing like it ever happened, and it was all apostate lies. Well, for many, my parents included, they could manage to go from here to the new system and they need never know any better, and it's unlikely they will spread what they think they know beyond a very small circle of friends. And if they do, it will be in good conscience. I have personally spoken to the embarrassed and penitent brother initially behind the fiasco, along with a couple of his friends, and I think I know something about this situation which should also mitigate some of the embarrassment, but can also honestly admit what happened.
    I don't need to look for the largest audience. I only need to do just enough to clear my conscience in "not holding back."
  24. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to JW Insider in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    Not funny! (Just my personal opinion and judgment call.) Have you read the new book about JWs and the Watchtower Society called "Ellen's Song"? It seems to have derived almost entirely from Internet discussions and rumors.
    And yes, I could write a real review. I read the whole thing, Amazon Kindle version, in about 6 hours, taking plenty of notes. I don't recommend it. But it shows that a non-ex-Witness (my opinion) has access to all the same material that we could discuss here, and therefore so-called "apostate" material need not come from apostates to be relevant for public discussion.
  25. Upvote
    James Thomas Rook Jr. reacted to TrueTomHarley in Any comments on jw.org's Online Bible Study Lessons?   
    The 144,000 is a yawner. Nobody cares. I never go there.
    To clarify a little, some care, but it is analagous to the wonks on media absolutely obsessed over the doings of government and all its machinations, imagining that they reflect the interest of the ordinary people whose greatest hope towards government is that it will pave the roads, jail the bad guys, keep a few of its promises, and otherwise stay out of their hair.
    A handful throughout history go on to rule with Christ in heaven. Good. It means the heavenly government has more of a feel for humanity than otherwise, first observed by the fact that the king himself did time as a human. 
    That's all anyone really cares about, as they envision how God's Kingdom will bring relief from the individual woes and travesties they suffer on earth. I barely go further with the 144,000 unless someone insists about it. 
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