James Thomas Rook Jr.

Nana Fofana
Despite Alan F's protestations to the contrary I agree with you that Lewontin, an evolutionary zoologist was correctly quoted in both the earlier and recent editions of the marvellous Creation book. He made a simple admission/statement that has come back to haunt him and then he protests about being misquoted. One thing I have found common in all atheistic/evolutionary writings that such cannot igore either theistic or metaphysical terms or language in trying to explain the subject matter.
scholar JW emeritus

scholar JW pretendus said:
A gobble-de-goop summary, so I won't comment further.
I'll just state for the record that Lewontin is CLEARLY an evolutionist and does not believe in a Supreme Creator. Any contrary claim is a lie.
His whole thrust was that organisms merely SEEM to be designed but are not -- and seem to be only to those who are naive and know nothing of, or do not accept, evolution by natural selection -- those who do not understand that "the manifest fit between organisms and their environment is a major outcome of evolution."
He further described that this was a mistake made by many 19th century scientists, who viewed that fit as evidence of a Supreme Designer. One of the goals of his article was to correct that mistake.
Lewontin did not say anywhere that HE viewed that fit as evidence for a Supreme designer, and you have failed my challenge for you to provide one. As usual, you lie and dodge and weave, such as repeating the Watch Tower's lie about Lewontin's personal view:
Again, Lewontin clearly explained that THIS WAS THE GENERAL VIEW OF 19TH-CENTURY SCIENTISTS, NOT HIS OWN VIEW.
True, but irrelevant, because Lewontin's point was that that mere appearance was a false appearance.
False. The book lyingly stated that it was Lewontin's view that such appearance of design was evidence of a Supreme Creator, whereas he clearly explained that this was NOT his view.
It's simply amazing how low one can go in trying to rationalize lies.
Yes, which means that the later revision said exactly the opposite of the original book: "He views them" was changed to "some scientists viewed them".
False. Again, Lewontin never stated what the Creation book claimed, and you have not produced a quotation where he states what the book claimed, namely, that HE -- Richard Lewontin -- views the marvelous fit of animals to their environment as evidence of a Supreme Creator.
The mere fact of printing certain words from a quotation correctly does not mean the quotation is correct. Any misrepresentation of the author's intent is called quote-mining. And that is exactly what the Creation book did, and you are now trying to rationalize.
If I state that the Watch Tower Society has finally bowed to the scientific evidence and admits that evolution is true, I can 'prove' it by noting these frank admissions in Watch Tower publications:
"The Bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".
"Evolution is true".
"Evolution is true . . . evolution is true . . . evolution is true".
"Evolution is true" and "The Bible is myth".
"The theory of evolution is true".
You don't accept it? By your standard, the quotations are correct. You can easily prove this to yourself by searching in a WT CDROM.
As I previously pointed out, Lewontin himself complained about the selective quoting done by creationists of his SA article:
<< Sometimes creationists plunge more deeply into dishonesty by taking statements of evolutionists out of context to make them say the opposite of what was intended. For example, when, in an article on adaptation, I described the outmoded nineteenth-century belief that the perfection of creation was the best evidence of a creator, this description was taken into creationist literature as evidence for my own rejection of evolution. Such deliberate misuse of the literature of evolutionary biology . . . >>
Lewontin also complained about the practice of misquoting scientists, in the magazine Creation/Evolution, Fall 1981, on page 35:
<< Modern expressions of creationism and especially so-called "scientific" creationism are making extensive use of the tactic of selective quotation in order to make it appear that numerous biologists doubt the reality of evolution. The creationists take advantage of the fact that evolutionary biology is a living science containing disagreements about certain details of the evolutionary process by taking quotations about such details out of context in an attempt to support the creationists' antievolutionary stand. Sometimes they simply take biologists' descriptions of creationism and then ascribe these views to the biologists themselves! These patently dishonest practices of misquotation give us a right to question even the sincerity of creationists. >>
It is one thing to cite and describe opposing viewpoints. It is something else again to repeatedly attribute those opposing views to an author or to a publication that merely describes them, especially when it is evident that the description is for the purpose of dismissing it.
So, scholar JW pretendus, not only have you proved nearly incapable of understanding scientific and historical material, but even though your misunderstandings have been clearly pointed out to you, you merely double down on defending the Watch Tower's lies.
Thus, you have no business trying to argue anything about Neo-Babylonian chronology.
AlanF

I see -- I think.
In any case, Jackson's duplicity being exposed on camera for the first time, for public exposure, might be called "new light", but this basic duplicity has been around a long, long time. More than 40 years ago, I complained to a Circuit Overseer about such with respect to the WTS's constant refrain that "elders are appointed by holy spirit". He admitted that that teaching was basically a lie, and literally hung his head when he admitted it.
AlanF

I agree with your sentiments, but the question is absurd and based on a false premise.
Any question based on a false premise can be legitimately ignored as a prima fascia absurdity.

The best dressed folks I ever saw were Mafioso types, the Governing Body, and of course, Penguins.

Since Jehovah God created men and women WITHOUT clothing .... and they DECIDED THEMSELVES THAT THEY WERE NAKED ... DECIDING FOR THEMSELVES what was "good" and what was "bad" ... perhaps the REAL question should be "SHOULD YOUR STYLE OF DRESS BE ACCEPTABLE BY NORMAL HUMAN STANDARDS TO OTHER HUMANS"
I spent some time in the Congo in 1974, and saw Brothers and Sisters in RAGS that would not be acceptable at any Kingdom Hall in the United  States.
I was a grown man with three children before I got my first warm coat .... it just never occurred to me that there was a way to keep warm in winter for Adults. It was such a revelation to me that I went back and bought a SECOND one, exactly the same, just in case they quit making them.
 

You misunderstand AllenSmith ... they WERE  sincere upvotes. 
If I make it into the New System, I plan on going down to the local cemetery and play a GREAT game of Whack-A-Mole.
You ought to stay away from trying to use facts, TTH.... it was 1006 PERPETRATORS with over 5.000 cases of abuse.  And the WTB&TS of Australia refused to comply with requests for records, and they HAD TO BE SUBPOENAED, and were produced under threat of prison for contempt of court.
 

You misunderstand AllenSmith ... they WERE  sincere upvotes. 
If I make it into the New System, I plan on going down to the local cemetery and play a GREAT game of Whack-A-Mole.
You ought to stay away from trying to use facts, TTH.... it was 1006 PERPETRATORS with over 5.000 cases of abuse.  And the WTB&TS of Australia refused to comply with requests for records, and they HAD TO BE SUBPOENAED, and were produced under threat of prison for contempt of court.
 

You misunderstand AllenSmith ... they WERE  sincere upvotes. 
If I make it into the New System, I plan on going down to the local cemetery and play a GREAT game of Whack-A-Mole.
You ought to stay away from trying to use facts, TTH.... it was 1006 PERPETRATORS with over 5.000 cases of abuse.  And the WTB&TS of Australia refused to comply with requests for records, and they HAD TO BE SUBPOENAED, and were produced under threat of prison for contempt of court.
 

I upvoted those two for you AllenSmith .... because you just condemned yourself with your own paw tracks.
 Now THAT'S entertainment!
Have a nice day!
... try not to spit and drool at the same time.
Neither you or TTH live in a world of hard facts ... and when you try, you get them wrong.
 

I upvoted those two for you AllenSmith .... because you just condemned yourself with your own paw tracks.
 Now THAT'S entertainment!
Have a nice day!
... try not to spit and drool at the same time.
Neither you or TTH live in a world of hard facts ... and when you try, you get them wrong.
 

He did, @Space Merchant You will have to back off on this one.
As soon as the janitor would unlock the doors each morning, he was there with an armload of pamphlets, saving seats for his friends, just like Witnesses do at the Regional.
There was a lot of boring stuff that had nothing to do with Witnesses and he slept through all that, but he came to when they got to the good part.

Did you happen to forget where you are here? I thought we were on a forum about THE WATCHTOWER and Jehovah's witnesses. That being said, I think it is very appropriate to make such comments directly about the wt and single them out of the list the ARC provided.  The issue is the way the wt handles these types of abuse cases. OK,ok,ok I'm sure you're better, have the biggest, fastest car with the nicest house or whatever, it doesn't mean I haven't read and watched the same ARC proceedings. Statistics are one thing, but as you will note JTR's post above, it means nothing if it is not relevant. What is relevant is the wt's consistency to hide its pedo's like the Catholic Church did.  
 
yes it is , you are correct. It is also a problem that some people and org's turn a blind eye to it or make it easier to continue. 
 
And with this, the wt has said "thank you very much, we'll do things our way anyway." 
 
I see your point, but hopefully you can see mine as well:
If you see a problem, a serious problem at your workplace or neighborhood and it might bring harm to someone, do you just go to the city counsel or state department and speak up there or do you address the issue as it sits in your face? Have you ever heard the term "think globally, act locally" ?  It makes the statement that one must clean their own before tackling the world, and by cleaning our own, each of us, the world naturally gets cleaner. 

I looked at TTH's figures and there is so much wrong with how the problem was set up as to be embarrassing to look at.
I weary of giving detailed explanations, so I will just give an analogy. Either you get it or you don't.
TTH teaching a class::
"Ok students... If a strong man can dig a post hole in 60 seconds ... how long will it take for 60 strong men to dig that same post hole?"
If you answered one second ... the math works out, but it is not reality based.

I looked at TTH's figures and there is so much wrong with how the problem was set up as to be embarrassing to look at.
I weary of giving detailed explanations, so I will just give an analogy. Either you get it or you don't.
TTH teaching a class::
"Ok students... If a strong man can dig a post hole in 60 seconds ... how long will it take for 60 strong men to dig that same post hole?"
If you answered one second ... the math works out, but it is not reality based.

You completely missed the point that I was talking about religious authority having witch hunts, and executing the innocent.
You comment is the first time in my life I have ever heard anyone propose the accused witches accusing religious authority of being witches.
I suppose that DOES make you unique.

Footnote:
EVERYONE that follows the Bible's examples do better.
even atheists.

You stated " Study 54 looked at the 17 instances of child abuse from the Witness organization that had been reported in the interim, from August 2015 to January 2017."
That was AFTER the Society was caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so to speak.
Hey Dick Tracy, go back to your squad car and get the files subpoenoed from the Australian Kingdom Halls and Bethel offices showing over 5 THOUSAND cases reported to the Elders, and not ONE  reported to the police.
The true test of their INTEGRITY is how much open, honest, complete and full disclosure has been made on the JW.ORG web site, or in the Watchtower, or at the Kingdom Halls globally to the Brotherhood.
What grade would you give them on THAT?
To the best of my knowledge ... and please feel free to show me I am wrong ... not a single word of the ARC hearings has been breathed on the website.
.... or in the Watchtower.
.... or in talks at the KIngdom Halls.
It seems they are totally consumed with "Pillowgate", and explaining by specific reference why two naked brothers at Bethel, sitting in chairs across from each other, watching each other masturbate, IS NOT PORNEIA.
If you have watched the "Pillowgate" videos produced by the Society, you know THEY EVEN MADE A VIDEO FOR NEW BETHELITES .... "CLARIFYING" .... THAT!
 

sigh ... If you only did one tenth as much to support the Christian leadership that has proven 10 times more effective in preventing child abuse, as you do your favorite politician.

Life is tough .... then you die.
Journey Lyrics
"Don't Stop Believin'"
 
Just a small town girl
Livin' in a lonely world
She took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere
Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere

A singer in a smokey room
The smell of wine and cheap perfume
For a smile they can share the night
It goes on and on, and on, and on

Strangers waiting
Up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching
In the night
Streetlight people
Livin' just to find emotion
Hidin' somewhere in the night

Workin' hard to get my fill
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin' anything to roll the dice
Just one more time
Some will win
Some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on, and on, and on

Strangers waiting
Up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching
In the night
Streetlight people
Livin' just to find emotion
Hidin' somewhere in the night

[Instrumental interlude]

Don't stop believin'
Hold on to that feelin'
Streetlight people
Don't stop believin'
Hold on
Streetlight people
Don't stop believin'
Hold on to that feelin'
Streetlight people      

Yes, but they have to hold it at arm's length straight out, with the other arm bent and hand on hip, and the head covering has to be a large Mexican Sombrero, with tassels.

What single decision had the greatest effect on history?
I think it was arguably when the Dinosaurs "were just not working out...", and God dropped a big rock on what later came to be known as the Yucatan Peninsula.
 
 

Life is tough .... then you die.
Journey Lyrics
"Don't Stop Believin'"
 
Just a small town girl
Livin' in a lonely world
She took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere
Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere

A singer in a smokey room
The smell of wine and cheap perfume
For a smile they can share the night
It goes on and on, and on, and on

Strangers waiting
Up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching
In the night
Streetlight people
Livin' just to find emotion
Hidin' somewhere in the night

Workin' hard to get my fill
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin' anything to roll the dice
Just one more time
Some will win
Some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on, and on, and on

Strangers waiting
Up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching
In the night
Streetlight people
Livin' just to find emotion
Hidin' somewhere in the night

[Instrumental interlude]

Don't stop believin'
Hold on to that feelin'
Streetlight people
Don't stop believin'
Hold on
Streetlight people
Don't stop believin'
Hold on to that feelin'
Streetlight people      

What single decision had the greatest effect on history?
I think it was arguably when the Dinosaurs "were just not working out...", and God dropped a big rock on what later came to be known as the Yucatan Peninsula.
 
 

The video of Ripley's alien friends would be interesting to watch.