James Thomas Rook Jr.

Incompetence is indistinguishable from deliberate subversion.

Incompetence is indistinguishable from deliberate subversion.

Entirely believable, JWI, as I have seen stuff like that and worse ....
I am a Barbarian, and my record is better than theirs for understanding what scriptures really mean, as their understanding is policy and agenda driven, and they can enforce under penalty of disfellowshipping any crazy nonsense a normal person would immediately see as nonsense.
 

Entirely believable, JWI, as I have seen stuff like that and worse ....
I am a Barbarian, and my record is better than theirs for understanding what scriptures really mean, as their understanding is policy and agenda driven, and they can enforce under penalty of disfellowshipping any crazy nonsense a normal person would immediately see as nonsense.
 

I believe I have already related the case of my own sister, 5 years younger than me, who was disfellowshipped for leaving a violent husband. He was a ministerial servant when I was at Bethel, and he hit her fairly often. She went to my father (an elder) who gave her the usual counsel about more study, more prayer, more field service. This was frustrating to her because she was already a full time pioneer and praying more than ever.
Her breaking point came when elders, including my father, told her she couldn't go to the hospital because they might ask her how it happened and this would bring reproach on Jehovah's organization. And she couldn't lie. She was told she should hide her bruises and cuts as well as she could. All the while he remained a ministerial servant. I called him from Bethel and threatened to beat him up if he laid a hand on my sister again. I expected a meeting with elders who would want to talk with me after I made a violent threat, but nothing came of it.
Long story short, my sister had her meeting with the elders, and she wanted to separate from her husband. Although this should have been allowed the elders were still adamant that this, too, would bring reproach. She insisted she would ignore their counsel, and that she would even try to get a divorce, so they formed a judicial committee from which my father had to recuse himself. She had not asked for a divorce, but this would be considered both unscriptural and bring additional reproach. In her mind, she should obtain a divorce, even if she wasn't thinking about remarriage. As long as she didn't commit adultery or remarry, (which would be the same as adultery) she thought a divorce was a stronger, more legally binding version of a separation, which would have been allowed (or at least should have been allowed).
Basically, she was disfellowshipped for defying the counsel of the elders, who were "only trying to avoid bringing reproach on the congregation." (To her they accused her of "bringing reproach on the marriage bed.") The circuit overseer agreed with them, and she remained df'd for a while. The circuit overseer also had her husband lose his "status" as a ministerial servant, and I think this lasted more than a year before he was reappointed, and later became an elder.
This was around 1978, when most elders had little experience, and there was a lot of patriarchal dominance in some of the midwest congregations like this one. Also, my sister was not really made aware of any appeal process. Now the information about the appeal is part of the process. Training in such matters is a little different today, and I certainly do not think this would happen again in any congregations I know about.

Hey... whazzup folks !
Jehovah and people of similar ethereal substance obviously do not need this physical Universe .... NONE of it.
Since by ACTUAL TEST, confirmed and documented extensively, mankind has crossed 240,000 miles of hard vacuum and landed on the Earth's Moon ... MANY times ... at at my last count we had NINE robots running around on the surface of Mars, and have explored the Sol Solar System, and have several active probes (Voyager 1, and Voyager 2) in Interstellar Space between the stars,  it seems quite clear to me, in fact IRREFUTABLE, that how we should interpret such words and phrases as "Earth, and "... vicinity of the Earth", it includes the entirety of the physical Universe.
Of course, to get there, you would need people that would live forever, as there is no evidence for faster than light travel, and psychologically, time would need to slow down as your Starship approached  significantly to the speed of light.
Cool, eh?
To the best of our knowledge and belief, that is what Jehovah has planned for flesh and blood people, and that is precisely how the physics of space travel actually works.
As Marvin Webster sez: "Y'all think about it."
 

I think his being fat was the root cause of why the world around him ended up shaming him instead of hailing him as a hero.  
 
then i think of paul blart mall cop and watch the entire nation poke fun at fat white men who are nice people. 
 
while everyone loves people like snoop dog who are always too high to remember to eat and promote drug use and a life of crime. 

That's me in the picture:😉
I called in a favor and asked the Society to reduce my competition by running the following statement in the Watchtower:
*** w18 April p. 30 par. 2 Questions From Readers ***
Others have used material from our publications or our jw.org logo in advertisements, on products offered for sale, and in mobile device apps. By securing copyright and trademark protection, we have a legal basis to prevent such misuse. (Prov. 27:12) But if we knowingly allow people, even our brothers, to post our digital content on other sites or to use the jw.org trademark to sell merchandise, the courts may not support our efforts to deter opposers and commercial enterprises.
For non-JWs I also have a line of engraved plaques with some excellent engraved pictures around the edges. They say:
"Thou shalt not make any graven images."
Oh, and I also sell laminated copies of the April 2018 Question From Readers, quoted above.
 

This is exactly the point made in Revelation, but it also matches what Paul says in 1 Cor 15 and 1 & 2 Thess, which matches Matthew 13. This is the explanation that causes no inconsistencies. Unfortunately the 1914 doctrine causes many inconsistencies in my opinion. Perhaps I'll write up a longer answer later, but I think your question could be further answered by just reviewing a couple of those other Bible passages that are related:
Some people in Paul's day were getting over-anxious about the timing of the parousia, and he had to remind them that this could be a ways off. If the Watchtower is right, Paul could have said, it can't happen yet, because Jesus is not even ruling as King yet!
But instead,
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:2) . . .Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words. 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
First of all notice that the parousia is the same as the day of the Lord (Jehovah) in the 2 Thess 2. But also note that at the trumpet's call they all go together at the same time. This trumpet call is associated with a time that the Watchtower now admits to be future when it is mentioned here:
(Matthew 24:30, 31) . . ., and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.
(Matthew 13:39-41,44) . . .The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom . . . At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.
Notice too the verses already quoted above from 1 Cor 15:23-27;50-52. We can already see problems with 1914. Notice that Paul writing in the first century gives an overview of the major events of the kingdom, that include those expected in the future.  
Christ is resurrected. Then those belong to Christ (anointed) are resurrected "at the parousia." Then the "end" when he hands the Kingdom back to his Father (Jehovah), after he has completely brought to nothing all governments and power and even Death, the last enemy, has also been brought to nothing. (In Revelation this is the same as saying that Death has been completely destroyed, "tossed into the lake of fire.") Notice anything missing in this sequence? Even if it were OK to translate "at the parousia" as "during his presence" we notice that this taking the reins of the Kingship is NOT considered an important event in the sequence.
And it's pretty obvious why. It's because Paul assumes that Jesus Christ is already reigning, (1 Cor 15:25) and already reigning in the midst of his enemies, and already beginning to show his power over those enemies by accepting "subjects" into the Kingdom who are already under his command, accepting that Jesus has already been given ALL AUTHORITY. So why would Jesus need to be declared King at some later point if he was already given all authority, and was already commanding his subjects?
(Matthew 28:18-20) . . .Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
(Jesus also declared that his "presence" had already begun: "I am with you." Also, if the conclusion began in 1914, Jesus would only be with them until 1914.)
There's another instance of this idea that showed up in one of the Watchtower quotes above:
*** w98 2/1 p. 17 pars. 18-19 Greater Blessings Through the New Covenant ***
Then Daniel saw that “the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.” Jesus is the one “like a son of man” who, in 1914, received the heavenly Kingdom from Jehovah God. His spirit-anointed disciples are “the holy ones” who share with him in that Kingdom. (1 Thessalonians 2:12)
The Watchtower quoted 1 Thess 2:12 to indicate that this starts in 1914, but Paul wrote 1 Thess in the first century and indicated that it was ALREADY begun.
(1 Thessalonians 2:12) 12 so that you would go on walking worthily of God, who is calling you to his Kingdom and glory.

WOW! That is one HUGE Airplane !
...and where's Beaker?

WOW! That is one HUGE Airplane !
...and where's Beaker?

Everything comes to him who has the patience to wait ... and hustles while he waits !
I hope he does well in his entrepreneurship.
 

Everything comes to him who has the patience to wait ... and hustles while he waits !
I hope he does well in his entrepreneurship.
 

via .ORGWorld News

via .ORGWorld News

People confuses hate with wanting justice 4jah2me.
I don't personally hate JWs, I was one a few months ago and I still like them but I do hate watchtower policies and lies and unfortunately some people confuses that hate and think we hate JWs.
Like we used to say to the public about gay people, we don't hate gay people we hate their acts, the same goes for JWs, we don't hate them we hate JW's organisation and their horrible man made policies.
I still love Jehovah and Jesus and I am sure many still do.

....sigh .....

If taking fractional blood is OK .... and according to the Governing Body it is left up to your own conscience ...
...then why is not fractional Neutrality also left up to ones' own conscience.
......such as "Give Caesar's things to Caesar ... but God's things to God", ..... meaning you can participate in commonly deciding with your community how it is to be managed and operated (voting), but drawing the line at giving your allegiance to a political entity, and fighting to preserve it from enemies, domestic and foreign?
It seems to me that if fractional blood products are "legal", then fractional neutrality is also something that should be left to your conscience.
As Marvin Webster sez: "Y'all think about it."
=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  = 
I think the issue is going to be resolved that way pretty soon, anyway, because of Norway's getting fed up with the WTB&TS getting Norwegian tax subsidies for the 112,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in Norway, when they are engaged in forbidding the JWs to vote, which they consider to be an abominable violation of basic human rights, on an elemental level, and there are several million dollars involved, and a dangerous extremist position, a cancer on THEIR society.
Nothing changes Watchtower policy faster than the idea of losing free money.
.... as it did with the blood issue after being sued by the families of those who died needing blood.
 

I would VERY much like to see the scripture for that one.
It is a rhetorical comment, of course because there aren't any ... merely the personal opinions of a group of men who are trying not to be financially sued out of a job.
While you are looking that up, consider this ..... If its OK to receive everything that is blood that is fractionated .... can you also DONATE blood if you are assured it will be fractionated?
.... might be a handy source of income when a Brother or Sister's rent is due, and they don't have enough money to pay it.
 
Hmmmmm?
 
 

I'm doing that right now. I've always meant to, but hoped the previews would be enough to get a full sense of the author's purposes and possibly any biases. (The 2009 version has quite a bit of preview available on Google Books.)
I believe the case in Canada against the Bible Students and "The Finished Mystery" started out as religious backlash against Rutherford's vilification of the churches, especially the "attacks" on Roman Catholicism. And some of the quotes that tie religion to the case against Rutherford actually appear to be about the situation in Canada, not the United States.
I notice quite a bit of exaggeration in the claim that "everyone rejoiced" when they were locked up (and that there was silence when they were released). I'm told that one of the ways in which the couple thousand Bible Students obtained those 700,000 signatures in 1918 to allow bail when on appeal, was due to Catholic organizations that sided with the Watchtower. This was only a months after the imprisonment. I don't think you will see any information about that reported in our publications, nor in Preachers Present Arms, but I'll look for it.

"We "MUST" obey God as ruler rather than man." To me, Jesus' words here sound like more than just a general "standpoint" (or point of view by definition) that can change depending on the opinion/situation of the observer. I don't want to get into an endless semantic debate of what "standpoint" means to you or to me, since I may be misunderstanding your line of reasoning here. (I am assuming English is not your first language and so while you may have what you are thinking clear in your mind, it may be that articulating those thoughts may lose something in translation. It also may be that I am too slow to pick up on what your are trying to say at times - sorry )  I think of Jesus' statement here similarly to his statement at Matthew 22:21: "Pay back, therefore, Caesar's things to caesar, but God's things to God." To me that was a clear command/directive that was to be in place at all times - more so, especially as long as Satan's systems is in place, along with the proviso of "relative" obedience as quoted above of "obeying God as Ruler rather than man." If, you prefer to think of both of these statements in terms of a principle, I would agree with you there as well.  
 
Fair enough if you prefer to view it that way. But this, as well as other examples, show that what has sometimes been viewed as "new light" has not proven true at all. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not feel mindless unquestioning obedience or acceptance of ongoing teachings is a mark of loyalty to God. It is a mark of loyalty to an imperfect uninspired organization. Still, I haven't come across any organization (religious or otherwise) that has MORE going for it. I believe there are many strong positives that set us apart - not perfect and lots of room for improvement, but I expect that will come - if gradually. After all, it has taken thousands of years to shed the blatantly false and God-dishounoring doctrines of nominal Christianity. If you feel your religion is better, let's hear about it and then we can scrutinize your beliefs as well - (instead of constantly sniping at us from the safety of a remote computer terminal with nothing positive to say.) 

I knew that already, when I could feel the pain in my frame, and axles, and my skin was yellow.

Too true, TTH.
Saturday night I had a full color vision in a dream while I was sleeping, and woke up and told it to my wife, Susan.
In this dream I was in a race with three large bright yellow school buses, racing up a hill to a Tee intersection, in single file, along a wooded country road, and I was the third school bus in line, and being old it was a big struggle to keep up, as the other two were newer school buses with newer engines.
I was the actual bus ... not a driver IN the bus, and the other buses were the same.
As I tried to pass I was hitting logs, and potholes, and I could feel it in my frame and in my axles, and realized the probability of me getting to the Tee intersection first was slim.
... and  then, the lead school bus said to the second school bus, which I overheard above the roar of the engines and the clashing of gears "You know, when we get back, they are going to check the mileage, and they will know we have been racing ...."
I have been trying to put that into some context, but am at a loss.
 

It seems that i made myself to be only naive here .... i read until last dot :))))) 
Anna, you did it on purpose, didn't you? :)))))  to catch some bugs and flies in the net

I am glad YOU get the point, because I did not know there was a point to be gotten.