James Thomas Rook Jr.

So, I've been mostly away from my computer for a few days, and it looks like this entire forum has been mashed up into a single thread/topic. I know that I was given the ability to move posts around to new threads, and I probably should have started to do that many days ago. (When I began I realized it was too late.)
But I also understand the simplicity (and short-term efficiency) of putting everything in the thread that people are actively participating in. In the longer-term, it's less efficient for those who need to go back and try to respond to things.
Since I think I'm getting in here at the tail end, I hoped to summarize a bit, and had hoped that Anna, Tom, Arauna, any "Allen Smith" alternative would have tired out AlanF so I could pretend to have delivered a final knock-out punch. But it keeps going and going with no end in sight. And there is no single topic on which one could hope to offer a "summary defense."
TTH, in spite of letting his tomfoolery characters get out of hand, has used them to point out so many of the areas where AlanF shows unnecessary antagonism, lack of empathy, and a lack of humor. He has also pointed out that AlanF's super-hypercritical view of JW leadership is also hypocritical in that an atheist should have no reason to pick on the spiritual and doctrinal beliefs of just one particular religion among hundreds. 
I like that Anna has picked up on some flaws in AlanF's reasoning. I think AlanF still argues against JW leadership from the FWF-era, especially the 1950's through the 1980's, when Anna and others have picked up on positive signs of transition, away from much of the dogmatism of that era. Slowly, I see some of the old arguments disintegrating, especially in moving a few of the events, once applied to 1918, 1919 and 1914, now being more correctly applied to the 1st century or the future judgment.
I like that Arauna has included some excellent points on intelligent design, some of which AlanF doesn't care to counter, but resorts to the trusty old ad hominem instead, either against Arauna or her sources.
Personally, I wish I could say more on the evolution/creation debate, but I've never tackled the relevant literature, and I can tell that even our own Writing Department has made enough mistakes in misquoting the relevant scientists that they aren't ready to fully tackle this topic either. However, I have a deep love for the Bible as God's Word, and the amazing consistency of the Bible books from first to last, and I have to wonder at the amazingly wide distribution of this particular book to every corner of the world. It's awe-inspiring. Because of this, I'll take "Pascal's wager," that even if we are of all men most to be pitied (if our faith is misplaced) we really have nothing to lose and much to gain if our faith puts us on God's side.
Besides, in the meantime, the true measure of Christianity is the activity that makes the world a better place and also makes us better individuals. We might even be better "neighbors" on random Internet forums, than those who reject Christian principles altogether.

I quite often think about that also ... and lament the burdens we have to bear because of legalism, verses common sense, love, mercy and justice.
Under the current environment and polices, if we DO "rescue a sheep on the Sabbath", we will be disfellowshipped and ostracized.
I know this, not on a theoretical level, but from recent personal, painful experience.
Fortunately, I was tough enough, and experienced enough to survive the experience.
...many, many .... are chased away forever.
 

I don't think anyone is saying that disfellowshipping or shunning is totally wrong.
I think the argument / debate, is about when those things should be used. 
I also think it has been proved that JW Elders have disfellowshipped people for unjust reasons. And that people are shunned for unjust reasons. 
As you will know scriptures can be misused by anyone. So I think what some of us here are looking for is justice, mercy and love. I'm sure there must have been many times that Jesus could have turned some of his disciples away, but Jesus showed love and patience and mercy. 
I quite often think about Matthew 12 v 9 through 12.  ...' so it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath'.
 
 

Unfortunately, just as Excommunication is part of the church, The shunning command is also in connection. Therefore, it is no surprise that the JWs are practicing such, as is such has been entrusted to the Christian Church. And I made points on this in the past, as is with sources.
That being said, do as the mainstream has done, alter and or tear from the Bible itself of what is entrusted, then you can do as you wish, but at the end, the head of the church is the one of whom such a soul, regardless of sex or race, will have to answer to, and his God.

I am fully aware that Justice you ONLY get from God ... everything else is due process, which only approximates Justice.
..... sometimes.
I don't expect much from humans, and I am never disappointed.
... just another day in the 'hood.
------------------------------------------------
... and with that exposition, I return you to real life, already in progress.
 

I think I am going to find that quote, cut it out, have it laminated, and keep it in my wallet, as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for future use.
Several years ago I was Df'd, and at one of my many reinstatement hearings over a period of three years, the last one where I was reinstated, the C.C. asked me something along the lines of "What do you think about the decisions of the Governing Body?"
I looked at him in the eyes and replied "I will have to agree with what was stated in the February 2017 Watchtower, that they are neither inspired, or infallible."
Dead silence as if they had been bonked on the head with a wooden mallet.
Then the C.C. said to the other two Brothers' surprise "Oh, yeah ... I remember reading about that ...".
I was reinstated the following Wednesday night at the Circuit Overseer's visit.
 

I think I am going to find that quote, cut it out, have it laminated, and keep it in my wallet, as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for future use.
Several years ago I was Df'd, and at one of my many reinstatement hearings over a period of three years, the last one where I was reinstated, the C.C. asked me something along the lines of "What do you think about the decisions of the Governing Body?"
I looked at him in the eyes and replied "I will have to agree with what was stated in the February 2017 Watchtower, that they are neither inspired, or infallible."
Dead silence as if they had been bonked on the head with a wooden mallet.
Then the C.C. said to the other two Brothers' surprise "Oh, yeah ... I remember reading about that ...".
I was reinstated the following Wednesday night at the Circuit Overseer's visit.
 

I am fully aware that Justice you ONLY get from God ... everything else is due process, which only approximates Justice.
..... sometimes.
I don't expect much from humans, and I am never disappointed.
... just another day in the 'hood.
------------------------------------------------
... and with that exposition, I return you to real life, already in progress.
 

I think I am going to find that quote, cut it out, have it laminated, and keep it in my wallet, as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for future use.
Several years ago I was Df'd, and at one of my many reinstatement hearings over a period of three years, the last one where I was reinstated, the C.C. asked me something along the lines of "What do you think about the decisions of the Governing Body?"
I looked at him in the eyes and replied "I will have to agree with what was stated in the February 2017 Watchtower, that they are neither inspired, or infallible."
Dead silence as if they had been bonked on the head with a wooden mallet.
Then the C.C. said to the other two Brothers' surprise "Oh, yeah ... I remember reading about that ...".
I was reinstated the following Wednesday night at the Circuit Overseer's visit.
 

I see no problem in the two instances you mention responding with lethal force, in the defense of ANY "innocent" people.
Plus, realizing that an incompetent defense is no defense at all, being a professional victim is something I try to avoid.
Just a a carpenter has to be skilled in his craft, sometimes taking many years to learn, piece by piece, and trial-and-error ... and have the proper tools, and be able to use them.
Luke 22:36
The Apostles, as all Galilean men, customarily carried swords, and at least TWO of the Apostles at the "Last Supper", and first Memorial, were armed WITH THEIR OWN PERSONAL SWORDS ... which they had in the room with them already, having taken them off to sit down and have dinner, and enjoy their Meeting, as was the custom at the dinner table back then.
We all die.
Cowards die a thousand deaths ... the valiant ...  only once.
 
 

That's why when I go to our weekend meetings at the Kingdom Hall, I get there early to anonymously offer my entire paycheck, converted to cash, to the "Worldwide Work".
I toss it up in the air, and all that God needs, he takes.  What falls back to the parking lot, I use for MY local needs.

I think I am going to find that quote, cut it out, have it laminated, and keep it in my wallet, as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for future use.
Several years ago I was Df'd, and at one of my many reinstatement hearings over a period of three years, the last one where I was reinstated, the C.C. asked me something along the lines of "What do you think about the decisions of the Governing Body?"
I looked at him in the eyes and replied "I will have to agree with what was stated in the February 2017 Watchtower, that they are neither inspired, or infallible."
Dead silence as if they had been bonked on the head with a wooden mallet.
Then the C.C. said to the other two Brothers' surprise "Oh, yeah ... I remember reading about that ...".
I was reinstated the following Wednesday night at the Circuit Overseer's visit.
 

Never would we want to be like the Pharisees, who resented those who questioned them and persecuted those who expressed an opinion contrary to their own.—Mark 3:1-6; John 9:29-34.
- Watchtower September 2019
 
 

@JW Insider do we know the writer of this paragraph in the writing committee? Just curious.
How did this get by the proofreaders?

That is why we can see how JW security guards (ms and elders) was used as peacekeepers and/or bouncers in some videos.
If some hooligans or organized mob go to attack KH and people in it, would fighting back be in harmony to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations?
If some soldiers go to attack your village or town, would fighting back be according to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations? 
Self-defense in WT magazine didn't explain much. Because what is self-defense?  Yelling and waving with hands? If someone want to use self-defense he/she have to know how to do it!  Looking videos on that subject, going to courses and lot of practice, than you can do it properly to defend self or other who need help. Otherwise ....do not go in conflict with one who is prepared for conflict.
@Arauna I think how you didn't read carefully what was written. JW Insider didn't said how Jesus promoted idea, BUT HOW FOCUS on only supporting future wars to be led by Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea. WHO making this sort of FOCUS? WT publications making focus on preaching service and to stay still (be neutral) in human wars.

The focus on only supporting future wars to be led by Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea that we really are expected to be pacifists. Also the idea that we focus ONLY on spiritual warfare leads to the same conclusion. As late as 2003, a convention talk mentioned this:
*** w03 1/15 p. 26 “Zealous Kingdom Proclaimers” Joyfully Assemble ***
The second speaker in this symposium addressed questions relating to neutrality. Early Christians were not pacifists, but they recognized that their prime allegiance was to God. Likewise today, Jehovah’s Witnesses hold firmly to the principle: “You are no part of the world.” (John 15:19) Since tests of our neutrality can arise quickly, families ought to make time to review the Bible’s guidelines on this subject.
Generally, however, the impression is given that we are very much like pacifists but don't want the label because it's often associated with protestors and radicals. However, the farther back one searches in the publications, the more we see that the discussion could include acceptable self-defense.
*** w64 8/15 p. 484 Those Who Pursue Peace ***
Actually, Jehovah’s witnesses are not in “rebellion” against the activities of any government, but they do maintain uncompromising neutrality as to the world’s political and military affairs, as they follow the Scriptural injunction to ‘seek peace and pursue it.’ They are not pacifists. They do not oppose any government’s program of military conscription or demonstrate against it, but they submit themselves to God’s arrangement of things.
*** w55 8/1 p. 478 Questions From Readers ***
However, this refusal to pay back insult for insult does not mean Christians are to be pacifists or that they must never resort to self-defense.
 

Oh, I dunno .......
...reminds me of two guys whizzing off the side of a bridge ,...
First says "Wow, that water is cold!"
Second one says "Yeah, and deep!!"
I would probably have to wear high-top farm boots if I was around either one of you.
 
 
 

There is often a difference between what is believed, and what is taught.
My was a Navy nurse during WWII, and working in Philadelphia hospitals, seeing men come back mangled and torn apart, and forever ruined, and dying, made her become a pacifist.  She finished her enlistment, however.  Years later, she saw a "Let God Be True" book on a neighbor's end table, and to my blessing and hers, she asked her neighbor if she could read it.
I was taught the Truth from an early age from my pacifist Mother who was in addition to being a devout Witness, a devout pacifist.
So ... "Stuff Happens" like that all the time, and later, when I went to the U.S. Selective Service Draft Board, I was still confused about what my role should be  ... but I knew that the issue was NEUTRALITY, NOT pacifism, because by them, I had learned that pacifism was a bogus philosophy for cartoons, much like our cartoons of all animals in the New System frolicking and eating straw.
More later ....
 

WOW!
If Stephen Hawkings had not been a media superstar about what he did with his disabilities, he would have been known as a third class physicist.
Reading an article about his theory, and all string theory will forever be theory, because there is no way to ever prove it by observation ... nor will there EVER be.
I personally believe in Multiverses, because it solves the problem of having 12 times more gravity than the observable Universe has.mass.
Gravity bleeds from one Universe to another, and nothing else does., and depending on who you ask, there are 11 of them
Quantum mathematics is the only "microscope" we have, but there are good detectives, and there are bad detectives.
Stephen Hawking's book "A Brief History of Time" is infantile in its perception, as an example.
Beware of conclusions reached from reading articles in magazines.
Anybody's !
 

Nothing at all suspicious about that.
Swiss banks then transfer the funds to the Cayman Islands, then the Captain Nemo Vulcania Offshore Treasury Banking System, Northeast of the American Samoan Islands in the Pacific Ocean, and then to the final recipients in the exclusive gated community of Colony Park, New York.
Nothing at all suspicious.
Completely normal.
Nothing to see here.
Move along.

I have nothing to "evade" about it. Bible clearly named, count this specific matter, that David was soldier and killed many people, and how this is reason why God didn't want him to build Temple. 
I just want to put in focus, how that factor (killing many people) must not be obstacle for your good relation to God and His blessings on such person. By the way, from who came commands and encouraging to be in so many combats and killing people? From his God. Many battles had been for God and in the name of God. Of course, some personal interest sometimes came in David head and he done what he wish to do (Uriah for example)
On other hand some angels or even God's Son were and will participate in massive bloodshed (Noah Flood,  Assyrian soldiers,  Armageddon, post 1000 year Kingdom Day of last Test), but that will not disqualified Him to be Priest and King and many more, to build Spiritual Temple in greater scale than it is now.
I really don't see why we have to be tied with some verse with few words, while entire Bible giving few other perspectives on same issue. 

One thing I really enjoy from the Governing Body is their new series of Animations, similar to the Caleb and Sophia animated cartoons, about how in the New System, all animals will be at peace with each other, play together, and be happy.
I have six dogs, and it's important to me that they have happy lives.  I enjoy watching them play and frolic, and just peacefully sleep in their doghouses, or on the sofa, in the living room.  I even buy them treats, and dog toys to play with.
Without further ado, here is a clip from the Writing Department's latest animated cartoon, of how the animals will all live in peace and harmony, in the Paradise earth ....  It's called "Wild Alex in the Paradise Regained".
Enjoy!

Wild Alex in the Paradise Regained. .mp4  
I guess we will all have to wait until there is some "new light" ,,, to see how it turns out !
 
 

Oh, give me a break, you pompous pillar of pettiness! I think far more deeply than you.
You have a incredibly broad knowledge of a certain aspect of a narrow topic. Beyond that, I wonder if you know anything at all.
I bring to the table free-ranging, out-of-the-box thinking on a variety of topics. You bring strait-jacketed, legalistic thinking about one.
I bring wit, imagination, and humor in all its varieties—self-deprecating humor as well as the kind of humor where you make fun of yourself.
You bring niggling, blustering nastiness, insolence, and an astounding capacity to insult all creatures great and small with childish taunts.
You are a precocious, smart, and mean-spirited adolescent who finds himself in the body of an adult and thus imagines he is one.
You don’t want to know just what high position he occupies.
A he who is characterized as a she. If I were you, I would ask no further questions.
Of course! That’s why he repeatedly said just the opposite in his life experiences.

No. I voluntarily stepped down years ago primarily over the college issue (going to and sending my children to college). It's not mandatory to step down, by the way. Although some congregations might see it this way. I'm fine how things are. (I spend time on sites like this and I have trouble with a couple of doctrines.) I don't think any current elder would be on a site like this and admit their specific issues with any doctrines. I have no idea who the administrators or moderators or Librarian is.
Within weeks of starting at Brooklyn Bethel in 1976 I was assigned to the Art Department. I was really only an average artist (good at landscapes, lousy at portraits). I had lots of small projects, but only a couple of the big ones. So I always volunteered for any research assignments, which I really loved. (e.g., What did an anvil look like in the first century? What armor and weapons would a Philistine have? What did a rich man's house look like? What did a poor man's house look like?" What did a 1st century fishing boat look like?) 
This soon turned into a couple of requests from ONE member of the GB who asked me if I would look up information for some of his projects. This turned into a lot of research projects. I continued working for him until 1982.
But anyone, could be assigned to work directly with members of the GB. Bethel assignments seemed a lot more random than most people realize. You don't have to be qualified to get a good assignment, and people who were very qualified for a specific assignment often got something completely different. Bethel leadership was actually quite proud of this method of assignment and Sydlik often made the point to new personnel that a brilliant scientist might be assigned to clean toilets. It was a method of teaching humility. (In reality I never saw anything like that, although menial assignments would be given to some as punishment/humiliation. There were only a couple of these punishments going on while I was there. Seemed to be pretty rare.)

That was too easy. I think it's a trap!