James Thomas Rook Jr.

Nobody but nobody has “apostates” like Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is almost as though I am proud of them. Every NT writer wrote about opposition and apostasy. If it happened then, it should happen now. What if there was no opposition today? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?
Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services to a much lesser degree. They are honest. They don’t resort to violence, either, in contrast to the majority who will when the cause is deemed right. 
It should be taken as more evidence that what Witnesses have is the truth. It would not be so determinedly opposed were that not the case. The opposition to them is hugely disproportional to their “offenses.”
 

OPPOSERS GROUPS
• Jehovah’s Witnesses and Biblical Discussion Group
• Loyal followers of Jehovah’s Organisation JW (please note the ‘s’ instead of ‘z’ in title)
• Jehovah’s Witnesses Come Out of Her My People
• Jehovah Witness End Time Prophecy
• JW Preachers of God’s Kingdom
• Walk With Jehovah
• AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND EX-JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES (also Canadian, Portugal, New England, New York, NY Capitol Region, NORTH DAKOTA, ONTARIO, PENNSYLVANIA, Pittsburgh, RHODE ISLAND, SOUTH AFRICA, United Kingdom, U.S. Southern, WASHINGTON, )
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES PORTUGAL AND BRAZIL
• Silver Sword, New World Translation
• CHRISTIAN AND JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BIBLE DISCUSSION GROUP
• Jehovah’s Witnesses History and Beliefs
• YHWH JHVH Jehowah, Jehovah, Yeshuah and Jesus is God the Father
• Jehovah’s Witnesses Worldwide (With Lex Gerald Oineseb Quibuyen as an admin)
• JW Answers
• JW Awake
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES HELPING THE UNEMPLOYED
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES:COMFORT IN THE DEPRESSION
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES: ONLY FOR SINGLE GROUP
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES. RUSSIAN
• SERVE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES IN (ARGENTINA/SPAIN/MEXICO)
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES. VIDEOS ONLY
• JEHOVAH’S WINTESSES AND ISLAM
• The Vast Apostate Army
• Theocratic ministry school
• “This Generation Will Not Pass Away’ 100 Year Anniversary
• WORLD UNITED BROTHERHOOD
• JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES. GERMANY
• JHWH/YHWH
• ANY group with the following people in them, either members or admins:
Barry Martin
Augustin Astaciao
Barbara Anderson
Timothy Schultz
Wilbur Schultz
Christian Freedom
Craig Perry Mason Stevens
Marina Lopez
Roy Milton
Sheryl Lamb
Sylvia J. Smith
Zecora Sparlock (also known as Captain Sparlock, or any name with Sparlock in it)
Brenda Lee
Jim Moon
Adam Pryzblyz (or similar spelling)
Mimi Doria
Thomas miner
Wendy Scott

You know, that’s a good one. It really is.

For the past month I have been TRYING to build a large chicken coop, but it is terribly slow. I have to weave several huge rolls of chicken wire into an overhead cover, and then support it with poles, like a circus tent.
As I was digging a hole for an overhead chicken wire support, I was talking to my rooster Speckles, scratching in the dirt beside me, who has feet and legs patterned like an alligator's hide, and as I dug I wondered out loud if chickens actually did evolve from reptiles., and if all birds evolved from reptiles.
To my surprise, Speckles replied that they actually did, but it was a tragic thing, as they did it for the frequent flier miles.
 

Whoops, I deleted that comment prior to your response, and can't put it back. But in order for yours to make sense, it was this:
JTR: When TheWorldNewsOrg guy (or gal) makes a post it's rarely about JWs or in a category about JWs.

That's why when I go to our weekend meetings at the Kingdom Hall, I get there early to anonymously offer my entire paycheck, converted to cash, to the "Worldwide Work".
I toss it up in the air, and all that God needs, he takes.  What falls back to the parking lot, I use for MY local needs.

...  stick your thumb in your mouth and blow hard until your fingers pop up straight, and wiggle ....

Even on this forum, when anyone brings up what the Watchtower publications said about expectations for 1881, 1910, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1970's, 2000, we sometimes hear an excuse like: "Can we really be blamed for having tried to put a time frame on the time of the end? After all, don't we hear about the disciples in Acts 1:6 asking if Jesus is going to restore the Kingdom to Israel at this time?"
What makes this particular excuse troubling is that we don't expect anointed elders, or Governing Body members say that they believe they should be in a better position than other anointed ones when they are in heaven, perhaps even in a position much closer to Jesus himself. Yet can they really be blamed if they tried to do that? After all, the disciples themselves appeared to have involved themselves in such jockeying for position:
(Matthew 20:20-22) . . .Then the mother of the sons of Zebʹe·dee approached him with her sons, doing obeisance and asking for something from him. 21 He said to her: “What do you want?” She replied to him: “Give the word that these two sons of mine may sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your Kingdom.” 22 Jesus answered: “You do not know what you are asking for. Can you drink the cup that I am about to drink?” They said to him: “We can.”
And of course, Jesus knew it wasn't just the mother asking which is why he addressed the two disciples themselves. But notice that the answer contains a mild rebuke when Jesus says that this is not even his to give, but it is in the Father's jurisdiction:
(Matthew 20:23) . . .but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
Similarly, Acts 1:7 contains a similar mild rebuke to the question about the time period for end-time events:
(Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
And of course, similarly, when Jesus' disciples asked him when the temple walls were going to fall, and they asked Jesus to give them a sign for when it would occur, Jesus didn't start out with a time frame, but created a context, starting out with the words:
(Matthew 24:4) 4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,
(Mark 13:5) . . .So Jesus began to tell them: “Look out that nobody misleads you.
(Luke 21:8) He said: “Look out that you are not misled,. . .
There is plenty of variation in the details each gospel writer chose to report, but they all agree that these were the very first words out his mouth. And of course, some also emphasize the same "mild rebuke" that we see in Acts 1:7.
(Matthew 24:36) . . .“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
(Mark 13:32) 32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.
In fact, Luke includes some of Jesus' words from the Mount of Olives "Sermon" as words that Jesus had already told the Pharisees, when they also asked him "when the Kingdom of God was coming." (Luke 17:20). Jesus response was very clear, that it would not be by things they could observe, not by physical signs.
(Luke 17:20, NLT) One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, “When will the Kingdom of God come?” Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs. "
That's not only a perfectly good translation, it fits exactly what Jesus repeatedly said about persons looking for signs. 
(Matthew 12:39) . . .“A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah the prophet.
(Matthew 16:4) 4 A wicked and adulterous generation keeps seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Joʹnah.”. . .
(Mark 8:12) . . .So he sighed deeply in his spirit and said: “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly I say, no sign will be given to this generation.”
This appears to be the same clear reason why Paul could say:
(1 Thessalonians 5:1) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.
This wouldn't have meant that they couldn't tell that they were already living in revolutionary, troublesome times, hard to deal with, and this should have made it clear that they should be ready at any time for something to happen within their own lifetimes. The biggest evidence that the end of all things was upon them was that Jesus had now already been in their midst performing miracles. But thinking they needed another sign to know that they had to be always ready might just be an indication of a "wicked" inclination. Jesus' disciples wanted a sign to warn them in advance when the walls of the temple were going to fall. Was it going to be in their lifetime? Could they continue to use the temple today? tomorrow? next week? next year? Jesus said they didn't need to know the timing because the end would come as a surprise, when it would be too late to do anything about it. By the time they saw Jerusalem surrounded by Roman armies, it was time to flee. That probably didn't sound rational to them from a human standpoint, since you can't easily flee through an army that's surrounding you. 
I don't believe there is any way to tell whether there is supposed to be some exact parallel in a secondary application to these Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem, or perhaps standing in the holy place itself.  Obviously the GB has long believed that there must be some direct parallel, based originally on some of the old type-antitype traditions, and they are predicting a future scenario that appears to match the first century by drawing on Matthew & Luke and bits of Revelation, Daniel, Zechariah, Ezekiel, etc.
A good question might be whether predicting a future scenario becomes more probable because it can incorporate bits and pieces from several different Bible books, or does it become less probable because it has been built upon bits and pieces of several different Bible books from different contexts. I think we are therefore back to a question of our own trust in those "bragging rights" that make us feel that a higher measure of Jehovah's spirit direction (or inspiration) has been evident among the leadership of this organization.

R2D2 started out life as a canister vacuum cleaner ......

An example of an anti type, and we know what we think of anti types lately:
" Over the years, Jehovah has helped “the faithful and discreet slave” to become more discreet, or cautious. In what way? Now the faithful slave is careful to say that a Bible account represents something greater only when there is a clear Scriptural reason to do so."  ws15 3/15 p. 6
Is there a good scriptural reason to use Nebuchadnezzar's  rulership as applying to Jesus?
I don't know, I haven't researched it enough. And this is the crux of the matter.  I am a perfect example of an average Witness, who really just takes this particular doctrine as matter of fact without thoroughly "making sure whether it is so". Why? Because it is darn time consuming and complicated. And I would say at least 95% of Witnesses feel the same way. Which means 95% of Witnesses believe this doctrine without having convinced themselves whether it is really true or not. Hmmmm.......

What I actually said was ....
 

Subtle ... and it probably WILL work to keep you from being "burned at the stake" !
... probably.

Subtle ... and it probably WILL work to keep you from being "burned at the stake" !
... probably.

I think that one is excellent too. It follows the same general format of showing how the Bible answers the Big Question of how problems on earth will be solved through God's Kingdom. The angle of Truth and Trust in the Bible is the theme. Again, there is nothing stated in this magazine that should produce any unresolved questions. I believe even JTR would have to rate it somewhere near 100 percent useful, rather than his oft-repeated 15/85 rating.
I'm going to try not to get drawn into a 1914 discussion, at least not on this particular thread/topic. But I do understand what you are saying. I'm not sure how far back you are going, because even up to as recently as 2014, there were plenty of references that could have meant what you refer to.
The Isaiah 44/45 (Babylon-Cyrus) prophecy comes across as the most amazing prophecy to outsiders. It's simple, and it's used, of course, in the self-run free study on the JW.ORG website. The only persons for whom it would not work so well are those who believe that "Isaiah II" were chapters tacked onto the original book of Isaiah after the Babylonian exile.
If you listen closely to the Faith In Action -"Out of Darkness" Part 1 video, I think it's clear that Daniel's "prediction" of 1914 is a better example for "insiders." An outsider would have too many unresolved questions:
Most outsiders aren't into this idea that the Bible pinpoints dates for end-times prophecies. They would wonder why wicked Nebuchadnezzar's rulership pictures Jesus' Messianic rulership. They would wonder why we give it an additional application when the scripture itself explicitly says the application is to Nebuchadnezzar, and says nothing about an assumed second application. And they would wonder how we got 1914 from 7 times anyway. It doesn't even say 7 times are 7 years (that takes another scripture from a completely different context). And if it did mean 7 times were 7 years here, it doesn't say that those years were actually 360-day years, which also comes from its use in a different context. And if it did mean that 7 times were 360-day years, it doesn't say that those 7 times 360 have to each be multiplied again by 365.25. That's because the day-for-a-year idea also comes from a different context. And if they looked into it more deeply, they might wonder why we were forced to use a mix of secular dates for some events and pseudo-secular dates for some other events. Some of the dates we accept are the same as the secular dates, and some are 20 years different from the secular dates, but this time in the same context. They might wonder why a Bible prophecy would even rely on secular dates in the first place since the Bible itself never uses a secular date like 539 BCE, 607 BCE, 587 BCE, 33 CE, etc. They might wonder why we inconsistently claim that these "seven times" must be multiplied by 360, then multiplied again by 365.25 days each, when we claim that all uses of the term "three and a half times" in the Bible (Daniel & Revelation) should NEVER be multiplied again by 365.25, but only multiplied by 360. And even then, we allow for round-off in the use of "three and a half times." And if they looked into Babylonian and Jewish calendar systems a bit closer, they might notice that there was no such thing as a period of 7 years that did not contain at least two (sometimes three) intercalary months so that the number of days in ALL 7 year periods would always be closer to 2,568 days, not 2,520. Some of these questions would likely remain unresolved to an outsider, no matter how well we tried to explain them. They work for most those of us on the inside, because we generally trust that all those questions were probably resolved by persons who have a lot more holy spirit available to them than we do. So we just accept that we don't have to ask such questions.
Besides, when I mentioned the "Out of Darkness" video, I am primarily referring to the very fact that this prophecy is used as one that is supposed to prove that Jehovah was using Russell (not Daniel).
At the 44:20 mark in that video, we hear Brother Gerrit Lösch say:
". . . it enhanced their trust that Jehovah was using Brother Russell and his friends to explain truth to others."
At the 44:30 mark in the video, we hear Brother Anthony Morris say:
". . . it's still significant that they could pinpoint that year. That's phenomenal!"
This is hardly about the original prophecy anymore. In effect, this 1914 prophecy is therefore our own "internal" evidence (bragging rights) that there was an element of true inspiration from Jehovah to those who were supposedly "wise" enough to pinpoint that year by jumping through mental hoops that Daniel would have never dreamed of.

Moooo!
CHICKENS IN CHOPPERS .mp4

@James Thomas Rook Jr. 
You are so raw, stark, sincere ... my hand shakes when I'm going to give you a positive point. I think you're right in what you say, but the way you say it cows me.

Perhaps it's just me, but looking back at invisible things that happened years ago, in the heavens that nobody could see, and for which there is absolutely NO EARTHLY EVIDENCE that cannot be explained by ten thousand explanations more probable ( Occam's razor?), by an organization that without a single exception in over a hundred and more years has ALWAYS been wrong about explaining such things, and whose credibility among sane, common sense people is ZERO .... I just don't "get it".
Am I missing something?
 


jw.org evidence for gods kingdom not based on faith but scientific evidence.mp4 In fact, I do not think I am going too far out on a philosophical limb here to say that this statement by GB Member Bro. Stephen Lett is complete, utter and total nonsense.
It's SO DELUSIONAL, it is both sad and embarrassing to even watch.
 
 

One of our RESPONSIBILITIES is to defend what is true.
This forum is an EXCELLENT  conversation starter to do JUST THAT!
I look at the statements of the evil, the misguided, the naive, the agendized, the clueless and the stupid who denegrate the truth as an OPPORTUNITY to set them straight ... and in the arena of ideas the sandy floor should ALWAYS be covered with the blood and gore of dismembered bad ideas.
The TRUTH will set you free.
nothing else will.
Personally, I enjoy a good fight, when you know you are ALWAYS going to win.
..... this requires you to research reality to always be right, or you get scooped up in a shovel.
 

I noticed from the video the machine was sucking up and compressing a plastic "Finding Nemo" clown fish .....
I always wondered "now what ? "
 
Finding Nemo Where'd the fish go_.mp4

I have never heard any JW explain that.
It needs no explanation.
It's like when an Eagle swoops down on a lake, and snatches a large fish out of the water, it's talons deeply embedded in the fish's body, that this is that natural order of things, and is entirely natural, appropriate, and the way the REAL WORLD works, and is supposed to work.
The fish, and many JWs of course, may have a different opinion.
Perhaps in the New System, from a boat they can toss straw up in the air for Eagles, and what falls in the water the fish will eat, and insects and rodents will rule the Earth.
 

I am a woman and have been an active JW since 1942.   I do not agree that “most JW women are lonely and suffering from massive depression”.  You are entitled to your own opinion but you should keep it to yourself and not post on this site. Since you are not a woman, you are not in a position to make such a judgment. 
Henceforth when I see you have made a posting, I will immediately delete it. 

@Joan Kennedy  You sound like a healthy JW.... foaming at the mouth to "delete" someone or something.
JW "Love Never Fails" unless your not a JW. 😎
Why should I keep what I have seen to myself?
Maybe you should open your eyes to the disasters your religion has caused for millions of people?
Why is your perception of JW land somehow more accurate than mine? 
Especially when I no longer live in your televangelist bubble of "truth" that has constantly changed.
Oh.. and don't even get me started on the differences since 1942. Back then disfellowshipping someone was seen as equally as evil as excommunication in the Catholic church (God forbid)
 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. @Joan Kennedy and @Jack Ryan as a JW or exjw we should be free to express our thoughts, if we don't like anything we can always use our ignore button and show more Christ qualities than telling someone to shut up. 

I have never heard any JW explain that.
It needs no explanation.
It's like when an Eagle swoops down on a lake, and snatches a large fish out of the water, it's talons deeply embedded in the fish's body, that this is that natural order of things, and is entirely natural, appropriate, and the way the REAL WORLD works, and is supposed to work.
The fish, and many JWs of course, may have a different opinion.
Perhaps in the New System, from a boat they can toss straw up in the air for Eagles, and what falls in the water the fish will eat, and insects and rodents will rule the Earth.
 

I remember in 10th grade Biology class the teacher asked us what was the difference between Cow milk like we bought in the stores, and human mother's milk for human babies.
I raised my hand and when she called on me, I answered,
"Mother's milk comes in more attractive containers!".