Ann O'Maly

That's a terrible photoshop 
I'd tell them that, when the novelty wears off and they wake up one day saying to themselves 'what the heck was I thinking?', it's an expensive and painful process to remove it. Don't bother in the first place. 

Be fair, probably considered it........... and rejected it.

Unfortunately for your claim, the complete texts of Dougherty's books are availalble online. You can start here:
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Dougherty%2C%20Raymond%20Philip%2C%201877-1933
You can see from the list at that link that he wrote the book on Nabonidus in 1920, which was his very first work on the subject. You can read the entire book and notice that he has no discussion of chronology. With no explanation, he merely accepts these particular dates for Nabonidus accession year as 555 BC and his 17th year as 538 BC. Except for the brief repetition of these dates in the title and on the first page, he never mentions dates again in the entire book.
Then, after about 10 more years of study and writing he finally, in 1929, writes a book that includes a full discussion of the chronology including the documentary sources and the synchronization of the various lists of kings. He even explicitly mentions that there had recently been many new studies, with new documentation and even (p.1) that "More than five hundred tablets of this type had been published in the last decade." (1920-1929).
That last book of his, the one that finally addresses the chronology question, starts out with these words in the very first sentence of the introduction: "the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C."  There is no more mention of that 538 B.C. date from his first work on Nabonidus, a decade earlier. In fact, he now dates the same period of Nabonidus, not from 555 to 538, but from 556 to 539.
So your attempt to imply that his sureness about the date 539 was somehow weakened by his first, older book seems disingenuous. It would be just like saying that the Watchtower doesn't really teach 1914, just because some of the older Watchtower magazines (from 1913 and early 1914) show that Russell had temporarily dropped 1914 and moved his expectations to 1915.
 

I appreciate all the points you made in your comment. This was surely the same point being made in 2 Peter.
This is the point that I think Allen Smith might not have realized he was making for many Witnesses when he spoke of how "the fine work is to READ it for ourselves to SEE if it harmonizes with scripture and accept it as correct and holy." I think that most Witnesses will avoid doing this out of the fear that it leads to apostasy. But Witnesses who have done what Allen recommends are becoming troubled by how difficult it really is to harmonize it, and we should be concerned about what is happening to them and why. Many are leaving the organization specifically because of these troubles harmonizing these teachings with the Scriptures.
For example:
We say that wicked king Nebuchadnezzar who killed and enslaved God's people pictures the Messianic Kingdom through Jesus Christ. We say that the break in this Gentile pagan's rulership pictured the break in the Jewish non-Gentile rulership. Daniel says the "Tree Dream" was fulfilled in Nebuchadnezzar's lifetime, and we say it was not fulfilled in his lifetime. We say that the "Gentile Times" ended at a time when the "Gentile Times" apparently became stronger and more troublesome than ever. Jesus said the Gentile Times will begin in the near future after the time he spoke, not that they will begin in the past. (Luke 21:24) . . .Jerusalem [the holy city] will be trampled [underfoot] on by the nations [Gentiles] until the appointed times of the nations [Gentiles] are fulfilled. The only time the Bible ever repeats Jesus expressions in Luke 21:24 about the Gentile Times is in Revelation 11:2,3 when it ties it to a time period of 1,260 days, not 2,520 years. (". . . the nations [Gentiles]. . .will trample the holy city [Jerusalem] underfoot for 42 months . . . 1,260 days. . . .) We say that the eyes of faith saw the unmistakable sign of Christ's presence begin in 1914 when the Watchtower kept saying it was 1874 until about 1930, and didn't officially change the 1874 date until 1943-4. We say the "Kingdom" began in 1914 when the Bible says it began when Jesus sat at God's right hand. We say the generation of anointed that could lift their heads up because they would not pass away until they would see all these things occur has mostly passed away in the 102 years since 1914. Obviously, this could go on and on. But the important thing is that all these contradictions clear up when we accept Jesus words about not being concerned about the times and seasons.

1 Tim 2:5 :- For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
 (1 Corinthians 11:23-26) . . .For I received from the Lord that which I also handed on to YOU, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was going to be handed over took a loaf 24 and, after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body which is in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 25 He did likewise respecting the cup also, after he had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.
By celebrating the Lord’s Evening Meal, we are obeying a direct command of our Lord Jesus and thus “proclaiming the death of the Lord until he arrives”.  Is there any mention of an observer class?  Does Jesus, in commanding us to commemorate his death by partaking of the wine and bread instruct us that this only applies to a tiny percentage of Christians?  Does Jesus instruct the vast majority to abstain from partaking?  Does he command them to merely observe?
This is simple order; a straightforward, unambiguous command.  We are expected to obey.  Anyone reading this can grasp the meaning.  It is not couched in symbolisms, nor does it require the study of a Bible scholar to decode some hidden meaning.
 
 

Here is the Origins if it is from German Ostara
http://bellejar.ca/2013/03/28/easter-is-not-named-after-ishtar-and-other-truths-i-have-to-tell-you/
Actually, according to Jacob Grimm’s Deutsche Mythologie, which he wrote after journeying across Germany and recording its oral mythological traditions, the idea of resurrection was part and parcel of celebrating the goddess Ostara:
“Ostara, Eástre seems therefore to have been the divinity of the radiant dawn, of upspringing light, a spectacle that brings joy and blessing, whose meaning could be easily adapted by the resurrection-day of the christian’s God. Bonfires were lighted at Easter and according to popular belief of long standing, the moment the sun rises on Easter Sunday morning, he gives three joyful leaps, he dances for joy … Water drawn on the Easter morning is, like that at Christmas, holy and healing … here also heathen notions seems to have grafted themselves on great christian festivals. Maidens clothed in white, who at Easter, at the season of returning spring, show themselves in clefts of the rock and on mountains, are suggestive of the ancient goddess.”
Spring is a sort of resurrection after all, with the land coming back to life after lying dead and bare during the winter months. To say that ancient peoples thought otherwise is foolish, naïve and downright uninformed. Many, many pagan celebrations centre around the return of light and the rebirth of the land; these ideas are not new themes in the slightest.
And yes, rabbits and eggs are fertility symbols, and they are, in fact, associated with Eostre.

Sainsbury's apologises after a customer was told he could not have black pudding in his Full English breakfast because the Jehovah's Witness chef would not prepare it
Alan MacKay told he could not enjoy black pudding at Nottingham store He was offered a full refund and instead made his own breakfast at home Supermarket giant said its chef had no issue serving bloodied sausage  Chef took object to dish as Jehovah's Witness believe blood is sacrosanct  By Alex Matthews For Mailonline
Published: 09:16, 24 March 2016 | Updated: 15:56, 24 March 2016
 
Sainsbury's has been forced to apologise after its Jehovah's Witness chef refused to serve a customer black pudding with his Full English breakfast.
Alan MacKay was stunned when he was told he could not enjoy the staple, made up of animal fat, blood and oatmeal, with his meal at the branch in Arnold, Nottingham.
 
After receiving his incomplete dish the former police officer was told the black pudding would not be served because it was against the religious beliefs of the chef to do so.
  Missing: This is the Full English Alan MacKay should have received while dining at Sainsbury's in Nottingham
Jehovah’s Witness regard blood as sacrosanct and if an animal hasn’t been bled to their standards they won’t eat it. 
 
Mr MacKay, who had popped into the store after dropping his wife off at work at 9am, said:  'I know it sounds trivial, but it's the principal behind it that's ridiculous.
'If she refuses to cook black pudding because of her religion, what is she doing working in a kitchen that sells it? She shouldn't be employed if she won't cook the menu.
  'I was really looking forward to my black pudding. You get a good breakfast in there.
'But when I went into the cafe to order my black pudding, like as I have done before, I went away hungry. I was really cheesed off.
'I came home and had my breakfast at 11.30am. I had crumpets, a poached egg and beans. I didn't buy black pudding because it's quite fatty so I only have it once a week or so.
'Sainsbury's does a wonderful black pudding, so that's why I was so disappointed. It's one of the few big stores that sells black pudding. Morrison's doesn't.'
   Mistake: A spokeswoman said Mr MacKay was forced to go without due to a mix up between the kitchen team
Mr MacKay said he was 'cheesed off' when he was not served his full meal at this Sainsbury's cafe because it usually serves up 'wonderful black pudding'
Mr MacKay was offered a refund by Sainsbury's who explained the error was down to a mix up between the kitchen team on duty.
A spokeswoman said a member of staff had misunderstood that the chef had asked them to prepare the black pudding, not that black pudding could not be served.
'We have apologised to the customer for the misunderstanding.' she added. 
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BELIEFS: APART FROM MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY
Jehovah's Witnesses are a worldwide brotherhood amounting to over eight million members.
Jehovah's say that as Jesus Christ did not limit his kingdom to a certain part of the world, they do not allow themselves to be attached to a country, ethnicity or political belief system.
Members believe that the bible was inspired by God or 'Jehovah' and is completely historically accurate. As a result, if a theory clashes with the bible they believe it to be wrong.
Jehovah's do believe in Jesus, but they think he died on a stake rather than a cross. This is because of the Greek word used for cross in the bible which translates to 'stake' or 'tree'.
Members say that when someone dies their existence stops completely and as a result they do not believe in Hell. Their other reasoning for this is that God would not want to punish humans for eternity.
Members do not accept blood transfusions because they believe God has forbidden this in the bible (In particular making reference Genesis 9:3-4 and Acts 15:19-21).
Jehovah's say that God believes blood represents life, so out of respect and obedience they do not tamper with it.
Source: Jehovah’s Witnesses

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3507433/Sainsbury-s-apologises-customer-told-not-black-pudding-English-breakfast-Jehovah-s-Witness-chef-not-prepare-it.html#ixzz43qzjk9F2 
 

JTR - It sounds like you need a jw-archive/internet break. Go walk in the countryside, visit with flesh-and-blood friends, enjoy reading a real paper book on something not JW.
Hopefully, you'll be back to your impish self before long. 

As far as I can remember from what I've read, there was considerably more to the charges than unpalatable content in the 'Finished Mystery' book. Some senior WT officials had been trying to influence active servicemen to disobey their superiors. That is sedition. It's noteworthy that, for a long time, the Society claimed the charges were false and that they were later fully exonerated in court. This wasn't true, as court documents bore out. The Society officials were never exonerated. The charges were simply dropped because the war had ended and no further action against the Society was taken. Over the last decade, the publications have partially corrected the wording.
*** re (1988 ed.) p. 32  6 Unlocking a Sacred Secret ***
"Early in 1918 the Kingdom activity of Jehovah's people met with great opposition. It was a time of testing earth wide, and fearful ones were sifted out. In May 1918 Christendom's clergy instigated the imprisonment of officials of the Watch Tower Society, but nine months later these were released. Later, they were completely exonerated of the false charges against them."
*** km 9/06 p. 3 Adjustments for the Book Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! ***
"p. 32, box, replace first paragraph with: 
... ... Early in 1918 the Kingdom activity of Jehovah’s people met with great opposition. It was a time of testing earth wide, and fearful ones were sifted out. In May 1918 Christendom’s clergy instigated the imprisonment of officials of the Watch Tower Society, but nine months later these were released. Later, the false charges against them were dropped."
 

(2 Corinthians 10:9, 10) 9 For I do not want to seem as though I were trying to terrify you by my letters. 10 For they say: “His letters are weighty and forceful, but his presence in person is weak and his speech contemptible.” I understand that Don Adams saw the correspondence between Brother Rutherford and authorities and among colleagues for the first time when the Proclaimer's book was being prepared. He had hoped to have a large section on how strong and uncompromising Brother Rutherford had been in 1917 and 1918. Instead he had to scrap the idea because the correspondence and evidence showed that he was practically begging the authorities, and ready to make any possible compromise to stay out of jail. 
These two sides to Brother Rutherford, must have reminded Brother Adams of what Paul said about such a difference in 2 Cor 10:9,10 quoted above.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Just thought I'd weigh in. I read through the entire exchange on Saturnalia with Ann as it was happening, before and after various edits and deletions and commentary about those edits and deletions. I believe that Ann is being very accurate in the way she described it when she says:
You rehashed Hislopian misconceptions, tried to pass off fiction and fable as historical fact, and copy-pasted any old bits of nonsense off the internet in a vain attempt to add weight to sensationalist, unverified claims about ancient Christmas practice.
In fact, she might be being just a bit too generous and kind with that characterization.
Other than that, I agree that the date is not as important as the Memorial itself. The scriptures speak about passing and partaking of the bread and wine, but they are quite vague even about how often. The evidence shows that many early Christians preferred yearly, and this makes the most sense. Even the original Passover could be celebrated a month late according to the Mosaic Law.

And the point, JWTheologian, of your contribution to this topic about the Memorial with stuff about Saturnalia is ... ?

I would agree, but the Org likes to pride itself on getting the date and time 'just right.' If it's not important to have The Most Important Day of the Year on the right day, then why not use western Christianity's dating system?
'Erred view'? Lol, I think your memory might be tricking you. You rehashed Hislopian misconceptions, tried to pass off fiction and fable as historical fact, and copy-pasted any old bits of nonsense off the internet in a vain attempt to add weight to sensationalist, unverified claims about ancient Christmas practice.  
To aid your recall (and for anyone else who might be interested), here's a link to the thread:
http://www.jw-archive.org/post/135927951593/how-was-christmas-passed-down-to-us-in
 

And the point, JWTheologian, of your contribution to this topic about the Memorial with stuff about Saturnalia is ... ?

I would agree, but the Org likes to pride itself on getting the date and time 'just right.' If it's not important to have The Most Important Day of the Year on the right day, then why not use western Christianity's dating system?
'Erred view'? Lol, I think your memory might be tricking you. You rehashed Hislopian misconceptions, tried to pass off fiction and fable as historical fact, and copy-pasted any old bits of nonsense off the internet in a vain attempt to add weight to sensationalist, unverified claims about ancient Christmas practice.  
To aid your recall (and for anyone else who might be interested), here's a link to the thread:
http://www.jw-archive.org/post/135927951593/how-was-christmas-passed-down-to-us-in
 

*** w13 12/15 p. 23 ‘Do This in Remembrance of Me’ ***

MEMORIAL 2014

  "The moon circles our earth each month. In the course of each cycle, there is a moment when the moon lines up between the earth and the sun. This astronomical configuration is termed “new moon.” At that point, the moon is not visible from the earth nor will it be until 18 to 30 hours later.

  "During 2014, the new moon nearest the vernal (spring) equinox will be on March 30, at 8:45 p.m. (20:45), Jerusalem time. The following sunset in Jerusalem (March 31) will come about 21 hours later. It is doubtful that the first sliver of the moon will be visible then. More likely, the first sunset when the initial crescent of the moon can be seen in Jerusalem will be on April 1. By the method the ancient Jews used, that will be the day when the first month (Nisan 1) will start, at sunset.
 
"Hence, congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the earth have been informed that Nisan 14 will begin at sunset on Monday, April 14, 2014. That will be about the time of the full moon.—For more details on calculating the date, see The Watchtower of June 15, 1977, pages 383-384."
 
Part in blue: 
Correct date - new moon was on March 30.
Wrong time - new moon was at 21:45 Jerusalem time. The researcher hadn't factored in Daylight Saving Time that came in on March 28 for Israel.
Part in yellow:
Miscalculation of crescent visibility. Three astronomical programs calculated that the new crescent would be visible with the naked eye from Jerusalem on March 31. Granted, the crescent would be toward the limits of visibility criteria, but still would be theoretically possible to see according to,
the Planetary, Lunar and Stellar Visibility program (free download online) http://astro.ukho.gov.uk/moonwatch/index.html http://torahcalendar.com/MOON.asp?JDN=2457458&TDAY=1&MNFLG=0 Screenshots can be provided if you are that interested.
The Moon's crescent was indeed sighted in the vicinity of Jerusalem on March 31 as reported by this website.

Therefore, sunset March 31 was Nisan 1, and sunset April 13 (not 14) was Nisan 14. So JWs celebrated the 2014 Memorial on Nisan 15.
 

I would agree, but the Org likes to pride itself on getting the date and time 'just right.' If it's not important to have The Most Important Day of the Year on the right day, then why not use western Christianity's dating system?
'Erred view'? Lol, I think your memory might be tricking you. You rehashed Hislopian misconceptions, tried to pass off fiction and fable as historical fact, and copy-pasted any old bits of nonsense off the internet in a vain attempt to add weight to sensationalist, unverified claims about ancient Christmas practice.  
To aid your recall (and for anyone else who might be interested), here's a link to the thread:
http://www.jw-archive.org/post/135927951593/how-was-christmas-passed-down-to-us-in
 

Also:
*** ka chap. 16 p. 296 par. 7 Completion of the Foretold “Sign” Nears ***

"Counted from the year of Jesus’ prophecy on the subject, the Jewish system of things had thirty-seven years yet to go, less than a generation with a life-span of forty years." 
 
*** it-1 p. 540 Wilderness Wanderings of Israel ***

"This brought Jehovah’s swift judgment: Forty years would pass before the nation would enter the Promised Land. By then, the faithless members of that generation would have died off."
So the questions are, 
Could there be a flaw in the Org's eschatology? If so, what is it? Could there be more than one flaw? This would be a fruitful research project for you, Sarah. 
 

Yes....  its  daily  the  same  procedure  :-(   More  times  my  cover - pic  goes  away !  I  make  it  always  new...  *Its  sitting  a  little  man  inside,  who  wants  that  I  change  it*  ;o)  hahaha

Thank you. I just noticed mine was gone as well. I will have the admin submit a ticket to IT team about this.
 

Ann,
That's a very powerful combination of points. I remember when Brother Schroeder at Bethel was getting himself involved in the "generation" debate. He needed to look at all uses of "generation" in contexts that implied a time-frame. He was willing to go to Josephus, Philo, the Pseudepigrapha. He was not really satisfied with any of the solutions that went beyond 40 years. He was willing to go with either the solution that it meant the "wicked" generation or the "anointed" generation but, either way,he still wanted it to be within 40 years. 
So it shouldn't have been surprising that he came up with the idea that, because of Sputnik, October 4, 1957 was the new, updated start of the generation that saw the full sign, because it had to include the "signs in the 'heavens'" including the idea that men would become 'faint out of fear.' It's also interesting that even though we have never claimed that Jerusalem fell in October, or that Zedekiah was removed from his throne in October, we still love the idea of October as the start of the Gentile Times. Not just October, but October 4th. 
*** w79 9/15 p. 24 par. 11 The “Cup” That All Nations Must Drink at God’s Hand *** [1979]
But the reason simply is that about October 4/5, 1914, or 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem after the Babylonian conquest, the Gentile Times of uninterrupted world domination ended.
Note the wording of the very first line on http://history.nasa.gov/sputnik/
"History changed on October 4, 1957, when the Soviet Union successfully launched Sputnik I.".
1957 + 40 = 1997, and he was also sure that the end would come before the end of the 20th century. The proposal was in 1980, and therefore he was sure that we had less than 17 years left in this old system.
*** w80 7/1 p. 3 Keep Watching! *** [1980]
Truly, the possibility that the “unthinkable” could happen provides good reason for thinking about the world situation. And many people are thinking. A special report in the February 11, 1980, issue of U.S. News & World Report analyzed the military might of the leading nations on earth, with these opening words: “To a fearfully watching world, the Soviet Union today looks like a military juggernaut, driving relentlessly toward global domination.” This is indeed a fearfully watching world, for the kind of holocaust that would accompany a nuclear war simply beggars the imagination. And there is no question that global domination has in fact become a major issue of our times.
Is there any solution to this doomsday situation? Many persons watch in despair. They see the nations ‘beefing it up’ in terms of rockets, submarine-launched ballistic missiles, long-range bombers, nuclear warheads and the like. As they watch, they become painfully aware that fearful dangers now threaten from the heavens and the sea, even as the Master, Jesus, foretold for the final days of the wicked system of things on this earth. Jesus said:

“There will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs. Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation, while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”—Luke 21:11, 25, 26.
In this context, it's easier to understand why Brother Schroeder was able to propose the following, with the approval of two other members of the Governing Body and propose it to the entire Governing Body.on March 5 of the same year, 1980:

 
 
 

Also:
*** ka chap. 16 p. 296 par. 7 Completion of the Foretold “Sign” Nears ***

"Counted from the year of Jesus’ prophecy on the subject, the Jewish system of things had thirty-seven years yet to go, less than a generation with a life-span of forty years." 
 
*** it-1 p. 540 Wilderness Wanderings of Israel ***

"This brought Jehovah’s swift judgment: Forty years would pass before the nation would enter the Promised Land. By then, the faithless members of that generation would have died off."
So the questions are, 
Could there be a flaw in the Org's eschatology? If so, what is it? Could there be more than one flaw? This would be a fruitful research project for you, Sarah. 
 

'Jehovah' is just the anglicized version of the Name which was adapted from the Latin version of it. Many other languages don't have the hard English 'J' sound anyway - they have a 'Y' (ya) sound instead (like the Hebrew letter 'yod'). The 'W' is from the Hebrew letter which is pronounced 'vav.'
Whether the original Hebrew Name consisted of two or three syllables, and which are the correct vowels ... that's for people with far better knowledge than I to debate. But what we have is an approximation.
Imho, sometimes people can become too obsessed with trying to figure out the 'correct' pronunciation. If pronouncing the Name 'just so' was that important, you'd think the method would have been preserved in the Bible for posterity.

ha ha ha yes you are right, ok answer me and I will vote for you :-P