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One could go off on many tangents from this point, but I think there is a kind of "unified theory" available from within the context of all these verses that combines the basic ideas of each reference to a 3.5 year period mentioned above. A couple of them can even be taken literally, and I think those ones also provide a symbolic foundation for the others.

This next point is controversial, and I mention it only as a possibility to think about. It's not really a necessary part of any new idea about the 1,260 days, but it's a perspective that could point in the same direction. Here's the idea: It seems very possible that all the the prophets effectively pointed to Jesus' and his accomplishments in the first century. I think that this means that no important prophecy reaches to any specific event past the first century, except for the one most important single event that will come as a complete surprise, the "parousia" (also known as the "manifestation", the "revelation", the "conclusion", the "synteleia", the "judgment", the "resurrection", the "harpazo", the "harvest", the "day of the Lord".)

This doesn't mean that the book of Revelation had to be written prior to 70 C.E., as some scholars claim. Even if Revelation had been written after the year 100, it still could refer primarily to events of the first century, which might make sense only as we start to focus on a few of them.

The idea that the prophets pointed to the first century is strongly implied in several places:

• (Luke 24:44-49) 44 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46 and he said to them, “This is what is written: that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, 47 and on the basis of his name, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem. 48 You are to be witnesses of these things. 49 And look! I am sending upon you what my Father promised. You, though, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
• (Revelation 19:10) . . .I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”
• (Matthew 11:12-15) 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is ‘E·liʹjah who is to come.’ 15 Let the one who has ears listen
• (Matthew 13:16, 17) 16 “However, happy are your eyes because they see and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I say to you, many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things you are observing but did not see them, and to hear the things you are hearing but did not hear them.
• (Matthew 23:34-38) 34 For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you.
• (Luke 11:49-51) . . ., 50 so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding of the world may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah, who was killed between the altar and the house.’ Yes, I tell you, it will be charged against this generation.
• (Luke 16:16) 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on, the Kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.
• (Acts 3:18-25) 18 But in this way God has fulfilled the things he announced beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer. 19 “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself 20 and he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus. 21 Heaven must hold this one within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old. 22 In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. 23 Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And all the prophets from Samuel and those who followed him, as many as have spoken, have also plainly declared these days. 25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your forefathers. . .
• (Acts 10:42, 43) 42 Also, he ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness that this is the one decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
• (Ephesians 3:5, 6) 5 In other generations this secret was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit, 6 namely, that people of the nations should, in union with Christ Jesus and through the good news, be joint heirs and fellow members of the body and partakers with us of the promise.
• (Hebrews 1:1, 2) 1 Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.

Not everyone will get the same point from these verses, but it is possible to come away thinking that all the prophecies of the Hebrew Scriptures, at least, found their fulfillment in the generation that saw Jesus and saw, perhaps, the last time-related prophecy fulfilled: the one that said that Jerusalem would pay for the blood of all the prophets in that very generation. This does not mean that one has to hold to a premillennial view of Bible prophecy, but there are some points to glean from this view that can shed light on the meaning of these same prophecies for the future.

I have not yet tried to completely decipher the method and reasoning that @Israeli Bar Avaddhon used in order to reach his current conclusions about these time periods. I apologize for that, but I don't think it hurts us to try to imagine what we would have come up with on our own, if it were not for the foundation already provided by the Watch Tower publications. This is also a method that can provide us with a bit of sympathy and empathy for those we meet who have tried to understand these difficult problems for themselves.

This can provide a kind of thought experiment that might even let us second-guess what the Watch Tower Society might come up with as an alternative in the event that the current view is changed. I don't claim that there is any real value in this, but it is "fun" when you get it right. I think several people here have had that experience.

So, let's pretend that we either have never heard of the current Watch Tower's view or we are just wondering what a "second-best" alternative view might have been to compare how much better, for example, the current Watch Tower's view is.

For these time periods, of 1290 and 1335 days, I think we have to start with the 1260 days. All three of these periods are named in the same chapter of Daniel. And only the 1,260 is also named in several other places to be mentioned at the end of this post.

As a starting method, I prefer to use the following as a foundation:

• (2 Timothy 3:16-17) 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

It is implied here that we should not need to rely at all on secular historians, but that the Bible itself equips us with enough information to be fully equipped to teach and set things straight on this and any other Bible-based subject. We should note that Paul was most likely speaking of only the "Old Testament" here, as very little of the "New Testament" had been collected or even written during Paul's association with Timothy. The book of Daniel, in fact, had not been considered to be an inspired part of the canon by all Jewish leaders, either. Some still don't accept it, even if they accept all the other books of the "Old Testament." Unless it is found to contradict the remaining parts of the Bible canon, however, we can accept it as canonical. (Some portions of Daniel are considered canonical by some religions and not by others. For example, most Protestant Christians do not accept the inclusion of the following portions of (additions to) Daniel:  Song of the Three Holy Children, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon.

Revelation is another book that required decades of of discussion before a consensus was reached that it could be included in the canon. It was one of the last books to be generally accepted, although 2 Peter and Jude might have also been considered questionable in some circles for just as long.

So, to start, let's look at all the places that mention the 1,260 days and the equivalent references to periods of "three and one-half times" or "[one] time, [two] times, and half a time," or 3 years and six months." The 1,290 and 1,335 also refer to a very similar time period with an additional 30 days and 75 days. (3 yrs, 7 mos; 3 yrs 8.5 mos.)

37 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Something only an ex-Bethelite, that got kicked out of Bethel, his team of men followers, and apostates can really behind.

Who is this "ex-Bethelite, that got kicked out of Bethel" you have referred to on multiple occasions now? Or perhaps this is just an example of what you call . . . .

38 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

The wild, unsubstantiated allegations that follow only to appease Trump Base of followers!!!!

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"Care to join me in a cup of coffee?" ... as if we would both fit.

Father Guido Sarducci once found a pope in a pizza.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Who normally would have spend money to buy building in this old  wicked system just before 1975 Armageddon ??  

We also paid for people to move out of the building and ended up with about a dozen elderly persons who could not be bought out at any price. We would not be able to use the entire building until they died. We moved them all onto a couple of floors that Bethelites couldn't move into until they died. The construction crew had a kind of pseudo-celebration when the last one died.

It's a curious thing, though, that the Watch Tower's history has seen this happen several times. Russell spent his and his father's money in 1877 because 1878 was going to be the "resurrection" and change from fleshly body to spiritual body. Russell bought into Barbour's Herald and helped him distribute Barbour's "Three Worlds" / "Tabernacle Shadows" and then Russell's own "Object and Manner of the Lord's Return" in huge quantities in 1877 and 1878. Then in 1913 and 1914 almost all the finances of the Society were gone. MacMillan says the Society was completely broke by mid-1914. They had spent a tremendous amount on "Photo-Drama of Creation." There was not much need to hold anything back, as everyone involved in the Society was "going home" to heaven in 1914. Then, in 1924, just one year prior to the resurrection of the ancient worthies, Rutherford took possession of a couple of houses and a couple of expensive cars for David and Abraham to drive. (This is not your fore-fathers Oldsmobile!) Also in 1924, they completed gathering the money to build their own first factory at 117 Adams Street - 8 stories, taking up an entire block.

On 10/31/2017 at 5:02 PM, Nana Fofana said:

However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ+and our being gathered together to him,+ we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement*+ or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah*+ is here.

I figure that, even if I didn't want to, I should do my part to bring this topic back to the 1290 and 1335 days. I requote the verses from 2 Thessalonians that Nana Fofana already quoted because so many of these recent speculations appear to me to fit the same idea that Paul warns us about. It's as if these speculations are intended to quickly shake us from our reason or "alarm" us into thinking that the "day of Jehovah" might be so imminent as to be immediately upon us. And there is often a sense that we must listen because this is just as important as hearing it from the apostles themselves: if we don't pay attention then we aren't paying attention to the Bible! This makes it fit the idea of "a letter as if from us [the apostles and inspired Bible writers]."

I say this, of course, while also admitting that prophetic speculation is interesting. Obviously, I do more than my share of such speculation myself. And I also believe that the day of Jehovah can come at any time now -- and will come as a surprise, as a thief in the night. I do not believe that we are still waiting for an additional specific fulfillment of the man of lawlessness, before the day of Jehovah can arrive. (2 Thess 2).

As I've said before, however, my take on this is rather boring. I expect exciting times ahead, but not because we can now see any specific events that would make us know anything about the times or seasons. It's one of the reasons I see a good portion of our current chronology as "broken." In Brother Splane's latest video about the generation, he points out the advancing age of some representatives of persons in "Group 2" to show how this system cannot last much longer. Pointing out that the system appears not to be able to go on much longer seems intuitive enough for a lot of reasons. But a claim that we "know" it due to Bible chronology, is a claim of knowledge that Jehovah says clearly he has not given to us, and we therefore need nothing to be written to us about it, because it's not for us to know; it comes as a thief! Instead, our current version times it to a time prior to the deaths of those in Group 2. In other words, we are now in exactly the same state we were when we were looking for a time prior to the deaths of those in Group 1, before a Group 2 was ever hypothesized.

• (Acts 1:7) . . .“It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
• (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
• (Daniel 2:19-21) . . .So Daniel praised the God of heaven. 20 Daniel declared: “Let the name of God be praised for all eternity, For wisdom and mightiness are his alone. 21 He changes times and seasons,. .
• (Matthew 24:36) . . .“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

I'm not saying that anyone here is trying to foretell the day and the hour, only that I see a parallel in what Paul said above, and in the common implication about identifying specific events that will reveal an end-times timeline.

I do have a couple ideas for the meaning of the 1290 and 1335 days that provides a specific lesson for Christians at all times, but which already had a prior application that was specific to those time periods. It's not necessarily correct, and of course something could still come up in the future that would reveal how silly all this speculation (on my part, at least) has been.

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

THE WICKED PLACE EVEN MAKES BABIES WORK!!!!

Bethel has a long history of child labor:

• (Genesis 35:16) 16 Then they pulled away from Bethʹel. . . .  Rachel began to give birth, and her labor was very difficult.

And wickedness too:

• (Amos 4:4) Come to Bethʹel and commit transgression,. . .

1 minute ago, Anna said:

So who is the father?

He's the one on the right side of the picture.

6 minutes ago, Anna said:

Who was that?

Persons who are still alive and who are not having their names appear in public elsewhere are probably not looking to have their names appear here either. But I will be happy to show you his picture. We were at Bethel together for several years. He's the one in the middle. One year younger than me.

50 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

And I know   the only reason this story appeared simultaneously  everywhere  in 2007 [and then disappeared] was that a patented product was going to be rolled-out, but then turned out not -effective, after all.

So you think that the headline "Blood Transfusions Kill Millions" was a hyped-up lie to try to sell a patented solution to a problem that didn't work?

50 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

"Some tests indicate that stored blood has lost most of it's nitric oxide - hence most of it's oxygen-carrying capacity - within three hours of being removed from a donor."

Wasn't this also found to be incorrect information (disinfo)? [The site quoted above also shows studies and experiments that include finding certain freezing/thawing methods to keep blood effective after storing for 37 years.]

At any rate, my point was that even if blood were 100% effective and safe, we should still avoid it if we truly believe this is Jehovah's will. If we begin selectively picking out negative studies, and ignoring more positive studies, we end up looking like we are embarrassed to hold to a Biblical position on the subject, and are hoping that we can find a secular reason to bolster our position.

It reminds me of what a Jewish person under the Mosaic law should do if he were starving to death and the only meat available to him that could save his life was the meat from a pig. Would he begin telling people that pig meat can be prone to trichinosis, and people have died from it? Or will he say that it's against God's law? (Of course, if he were truly dying, the position of Jesus appears to be that he should do what is unlawful in order to save a life.)

• (Matthew 12:1-7) . . .disciples got hungry and started to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 At seeing this, the Pharisees said to him: “Look! Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them: “Have you not read what David did when he and the men with him were hungry? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the loaves of presentation, something that it was not lawful for him or those with him to eat, but for the priests only? 5 Or have you not read in the Law that on the Sabbaths the priests in the temple violate the Sabbath and continue guiltless? 6 But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 However, if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’. . .

There is more than one way to understand that passage, but it is clear that the conscience of some would allow them to get one thing out of it, and the conscience of another would allow them to get something else out of it.

By the way, I agree completely that there should technologies by now that would help with both increased volume and increased oxygenation. The position of JWs along with the financial costs of collecting and storing blood have already combined to help produce advances in these areas. Hopefully, more will be done sooner than later.

3 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

Blood Transfusions Often Kill the Patients.

This is true. Blood is dangerous. Heart surgery is dangerous too and has killed many patients. But it has also saved many patients. It's the same with blood, which is why so many thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses take blood. They take it in fractional components. Most blood is stored in fractional components anyway. And most blood is supposed to be used within 42 days. This was true long before the Duke study, because it was already known that blood stored for 4 months was only about half as efficient for carrying oxygen.

The Duke study (this is only one of many Duke studies) was one of the most repeated in the media because it was the "scariest." But attempts to repeat the study with more randomized data did not fully confirm it. And the failure to show any difference by trying to bump up the nitrous oxide might be evidence that they were on the wrong track anyway.

None of this is evidence one way or another that Jehovah's Witnesses should reverse their conscience on blood. Blood saves lives in the same way that heart surgery saves lives. Just because something might save our life doesn't mean it's right. But we shouldn't have to find ourselves always trying to defend our position based on specific secular studies of risk vs benefit. Are human scholars that important to us? If we are right, why would it matter even if blood only saved lives 80% of the time or 50% or 20%? Is it men we are trying to please, or God?

The apostle Paul obviously didn't mind getting some blood in his meat, and said it was a matter of conscience. So let each one decide for himself, he said. As adults, we have the right to our own conscience in this matter. None of us should question the conscientious choice of another. I have a concern over whether we should force our conscience on unbaptized members of our household including small children, or should we follow the "higher authorities" of Romans 13:1.

Obviously, this discussion should go under another topic.

Edited to add: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851210/

14 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

matters like the rejection of blood transfusions and shunning df'ed children are crossing a line of control. I just can't stand behind those things. It violates my Bible conscience.

A son of a Governing Body member was handling the Watch Tower's Public Relations department just before J.R.Brown took over that position. He said that these particular two items were the two items that, if changed, would resolve 90% of our public relations problems. (This was just prior to the child abuse debacle which J.R.Brown was immediately thrown into.) I suspect people understood him to be saying he disagreed with our position on these issues, but I don't recall him ever saying that. He was fired from the position anyway.

With reference to the current topic at hand, Gertoux had already said the following about the film, indicating that it was made "from this article" and from "the simplified version of the book" on this subject.

• God's name: readable but unpronounceable, why?
• Fritz Poppenberg a German filmaker made a DVD from this article ( http://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html ) which is available for free on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oazE-CL06BA The understanding of God's name YHWH is so controversial that it is eventually the controversy of controversies, or the ultimate controversy. Indeed, why most of competent Hebrew scholars propagate patently false explanations about God's name? Why do the Jews refuse to read God's name as it is written and read Adonay "my Lord" (a plural of majesty) instead of it? Why God's name is usually punctuated e,â (shewa, qamats) by the Masoretes what makes its reading impossible, because the 4 consonants of the name YHWH must have at least 3 vowels (long or short) to be read, like the words ’aDoNâY and ’eLoHîM "God" (a plural of majesty), which have 4 consonants and 3 vowels? At last, why the obvious reading "Yehowah", according to theophoric names, which all begin by Yehô-, without exception, is so despised, and why the simple biblical meaning, "He will be" from Exodus 3:14, is rejected.

• The Name of God Y.eH.oW.aH Which is pronounced as it is Written I_Eh_oU_Ah. Simplified edition
• Fritz Poppenberg a German filmaker made a DVD from the simplified version of the book ( http://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html ) which is available for free on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9mtlexbaWA . . . [the remainder of this paragraph is exactly the same as the above].

5 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

I wouldn’t know. I received my doctorates without a problem, and I disagree with COJ’s assessment. But, you keep insisting Gerard Gertoux is still a witness, but then again, you claim, the same!

Actually, I have never insisted. Are you saying that if he himself claims to be a JW that you might not believe him? By the way, I did just get a response from him, and he preferred that I only use only one particular article of his when discussing 587/6 BCE. He says:

• "To avoid any controversy on this controversial subject you can quote my article 'Basic astronomy for historians to get a chronology' . . . [link] . . . which was validated by Professor Hermann Hunger who is a reference in Babylonian astronomy."

[Thanks to the person who gave me his most recent email address. I had tried the same one before without a response, but it is still correct. I received the above response a few minutes ago.]

11 minutes ago, Anna said:

I don't know how up to date this list is, because as far as I know, at least one of the authors is no longer a Witness, but he was at the time of writing his book.

I saw that too. In the explanation at the top he says that the Yes/No in the box refers only to the time when they wrote the book:

• I have indicated whether each book was written by a brother or not at the time that the book was released

4 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

having NO formal higher education to substantiate his accusations

Yes, I understand the all-important emphasis that you and opposers put on "higher education." But Gerard Gertoux DOES have formal higher education. How can we explain his agreement with COJ with regard to chronology?

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

That's why I place "zero" value in up-votes. You can remove it!

Curious. I've often wondered why Bible Speaks and Queen Esther and, to a much lesser extent, "you and yours" engage in self-up-voting. (TTH did this at least once, too.) But I agree that they are of zero value. There is a whole generation of people today who seem to live and die (sometimes literally) over the concept of digital approval. Facebook had to get rid of the down-vote because it caused the break-up of so many real and "social" friends. 

But the up-vote is still useful as a way to react to a good or funny comment, or express appreciation for the good and useful research that has gone into comments. You have received at least a dozen from me for the latter reason; probably a couple of them are in this very topic. I don't believe I have ever given a down-vote.

So credit where credit is due. I don't see any reason to remove it.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

However, you're mistaken when you assert not pitting scholars over the GB.

I hope not. I didn't think you were doing it on purpose. I just thought you sometimes saw a book with an impressive sounding title and assumed that the book supported something the GB was saying before you read the actual book. I have access to JSTOR and a lot of the full books you have referenced through a university alumni account. So, you probably don't know how much time I've nearly "wasted" trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Then you would, in essence, be voiding all your arguments placed over the years about 607BC and your agreement with COJ's assessment with his scholar's view, about the Watchtower doctrine.

Curious, again. You have usually been more careful to always deny that COJ had a scholar's view. I wonder if you would consider Gerard Gertoux to be a scholar. A few minutes ago, I just emailed him, asking for his permission to quote and discuss his view on the chronology of the destruction of Jerusalem. He appears to agree with COJ that the date must be either 587 or 586, not 607 BCE. The purpose of the email was also to double-check if it is still his current view.

39 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

When you give “scholars” more authority than GOD. What does that tell the world?

I've never accused you of giving "scholars" more authority than God just because you often quote scholarly authorities who contradict the Governing Body in almost every way possible. That includes the "Kyrios Christos" book you just introduced above as an "example" which says basically that the New Testament was influenced by false religion. And I've never accused the Governing Body of giving "scholars" more authority than God just because they use and quote outside scholars, too, but usually in a much more judicious manner than several of your recent examples.

You include in your answer that Jesus was explicitly referring to the Pharisees and applying the verse as if he were saying that the Pharisees themselves were gods. I think this goes beyond any claim in the Watch Tower publications, which seem carefully worded to avoid this same implication. Note:

*** si p. 196 par. 19 Bible Book Number 43—John ***

• In answer to their charge of blasphemy, he reminds them that in the book of Psalms, certain mighty ones of earth are referred to as “gods,” whereas he has referred to himself as God’s Son. (Ps. 82:6) He urges them at least to believe his works.—John 10:34.

Other than your wildly inaccurate personal accusations, however, I found several parts of your answer to be useful, which is why I have given you another "up-vote." Thanks.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave

9 hours ago, Anna said:

By the way I couldn't find that quote in the WT you cited. I'm sure its there somewhere. I personally don't like the term "obedience" with respect to humans, but rather cooperation.

• https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402011525
• We can enter into Jehovah’s rest if we obey him and work with his organization. ¹⁷ But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important.

It has become harder to search on text from the Simplified Watchtower in WOL.jw.org.

@Anna, BTW, I only commented up until near the first half of this. There are things in the second half I found to be just as bad. But I didn't want to spoil anyone else's chance to comment first.

On 10/25/2017 at 1:30 PM, Anna said:

It is to be noted that both Rolf Furuli and Gerard Gertroux are both Jehovah's Witnesses.

Don't know how long Gerard Gertoux has been a Witness, but two years ago I was asked to look over a paper (thesis-length) he had written on chronology. I went to get it about a year later and all the links had this item removed, but no others. Fortunately there was still a roundabout way to get a copy. I think this is his most complete work on chronology and it's excellent and comprehensive but it "demolishes" any chance that he could have believed 607 was the date for destruction of Jerusalem, at least at the time he wrote the paper. It was actually a very good paper, and I don't really know why it was removed from so many places. (I can guess, of course, but I could be wrong.) The next time the subject comes up, I'll be happy to quote at length from his paper, although I would respect his wish not to quote directly from it, if this is his wish.

Does anyone here have a current contact for him? If so, please PM me. Does he frequent any forums that anyone here knows about?

15 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Once these time periods are properly understood, I have a feeling there will be no ambiguity at all, and a lot of people will be saying "There. I always said it was something like that!".

That time isn't now however............ 

Tomorrow?

16 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

But, don't know about you, but these are issues that are SOOOO not a reason to have shaky faith over. And what is all this about:  

I certainly hope not. Even our most current explanations have begun to admit a less dogmatic perspective: "The angel gives no clues as to when this period begins or ends." (Daniel's Prophecy book, quoted above.) This is a far cry from 1977's comments on the same time period:

*** go chap. 8 p. 133 par. 27 Marked Days During the “Time of the End” ***

• The fact that the once secret and sealed “words” are now unsealed and brought out of secrecy adds to the abundance of proof that, since the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, we have been in the exciting “time of the end.” We see how the “appointed time, appointed times and a half” of Daniel 12:7 have fitted into this “time of the end.”

I fully expect an update in 2021, when we'll have 2020 hindsight.

10 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Dear JW insider,
I congratulate you for the accuracy of the information. I did not want to go too far into the merit that it would not seem too controversial.

Thanks. I usually go with a policy of: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." So it is useful to test whether there is anything broken in the current explanation before trying to see if a "fix is possible."

41 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

There will be no new intentions from the official channel.
Wait and see.

That sounds a bit too inflexible, and prophet-like for my taste. There have been many new explanations on such things. We hardly go a year or two these days without some former understanding changing. And I'm sure you don't know just how close the Watch Tower came to making some changes on this back in 1977, starting just after the "World Government" book came out.

45 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Prophecy clearly says that Jehovah will punish his own people exactly as it has happened in the past.
So I encourage you to personally know what the Bible teaches and what will happen in the near future

Yes. A judgment starts with his people. If you mean punishment in the sense of discipline, I will accept the probability. An outright negative judgment for all (punishment) is not what we expect from a merciful and loving God, especially in light of Jesus' words. But maybe you mean something a little different when you say "his own people."

I think it's about the same as it has been for decades. In the US, sports in school were once provided in a gym / PE class, which has become rarer, so that the only way to participate in some schools is to join a team where competition with other schools comes into play, along with the likelihood that practice and games will interfere with meetings. We have less meetings, shorter assemblies, and a bit more flexibility in our schedules on the one hand. On the other hand, kids have less opportunities to participate in sports without a larger time commitment. Balance is a difficult thing.

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

It seems you want to slow walk me into an epiphany, your point being is?

Same as always. As I said: I thought you were saying you had addressed this with scholars, so I was interested.

I was interested in whether you had run across some useful information that either debunks the connections that several scholars have made, or perhaps put them in a more understandable light. You quoted from some sources that, as far as I can see, just take us further down into the same connections I was hoping to avoid, so I have my doubts that any of these sources can help. But I try keep an open mind. Which is why I was interested in your take on this.