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JW Insider

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Posts posted by JW Insider

  1. As you say, it may be nothing more than a rumor. Anything asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. So we can just wait for the evidence before concluding anything. Of course, it is also very important to various groups and political entities to make sure there is a CURRENT negative story about China available at all times. Most of these turn out to be nothing or untrue, but just having the story out there, no matter how short-lived, is important to skew opinion. So if this one is untrue, then it adds to a growing list of failed propaganda stories against China.

    The CCP enjoys overwhelming support from Chinese people of varying class and wealth within all parts of China, so that even a terrible scandal would probably not have much effect on its stability. Within China the President (Xi) has been given high ratings for many years. The Chinese view of their own economy, the reduction of poverty, "peace and security," ease of transportation, even their own "human rights" are important to them.

    If such a scandal turns out to be true, it would probably have to be leveraged from political and economic forces outside the country before it had enough of an effect inside China to bring down a popular political party.

  2. 1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

    I once knew

    At Bethel in Brooklyn all brothers would be periodically assigned to either a few hours of after-dinner dish duty or a whole night of guard duty, which entailed walking through totally dark floors in the factories at Squibb (25/30 Columbia Heights) or the 4 main factories at 117 Adams. You would try not to bump into anything as you searched for "key boxes" with a flashlight. Then you'd turn a key and go on to find the next key box, using a page of ambiguous instructions instead of a map. If all the key boxes were hit correctly and in a timely manner every night, the Society could save a lot on insurance. Being the kind of non-sleeper that I am, I never did dish duty, and always swapped it for guard duty.

    I was shown where a brother, 20-some years earlier, emptied 6 rounds into a roll of printing paper because he didn't know that rolls of paper can expand and contract due to temperature changes and the pops they make can sound like gunfire. 25 to 30 years earlier the Bethelites could still carry a gun on guard duty. This probably stopped in the 1950's, I'm not sure. It probably stopped soon after that shootout with the paper roll. 

  3. 5 minutes ago, admin said:

    So it is possible that he was actually "in person" walking out of Rome when Jesus told him basically to return to Rome according to the show. I think he supposedly sent his secretary back to Rome instead.

    There is nothing in the Bible itself about that. There are a few traditions about Peter and Rome, but they are mostly from a couple hundred years after the events would have taken place. And these traditions are often contradictory. The Bible is much more consistent and was written almost completely in the same century when Peter lived.

    Some of those traditions had the Gospel writer Mark as his secretary, but the Bible does not speak of either of them in Rome. The closest is this verse:

    (1 Peter 5:13, 14) 13 She who is in Babylon, a chosen one like you, sends you her greetings, and so does Mark, my son. 14 Greet one another with a kiss of love.. . .

    Since Peter was married, the "she" here is often thought of as referring to his wife, and Babylon is sometimes thought of as a pseudonym for Rome. But we also know that there was still a thriving Jewish population in the actual area of Babylon, so a pseudonym for Rome is not a definite explanation here.

  4. 28 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

    He complains frequently about pin-headed people who come out of nowhere to attack and argue with him.

    It's pretty clear he is annoyed with those who don't do enough research and then just come to conclusions without evidence. But I think he is absolutely right in almost all cases. It's a bit annoying to see this pet peeve of his play out so often in the footnotes, and it even creeps into the main text a few times. The second volume has even more of this than the first volume. But it's a reflection of the world of historical discussions these days, and the ease with which someone can make a stupid theory look like it was endorsed by the Pope, the GB, or the President (or all three, for whatever that would be worth).

    I can't find much to disagree with him on because he is honest with his sources. He is a bit more of a Watchtower apologist in this latest book than he was in Volume 1, but I don't mind that. He brings just a little more of the discussion into the world of JWs today, too. (He apparently has had some help from New York Bethel HQ in his research, too.) Also, he does put an awful lot of work into a kind of agenda to disentangle Russell from any Adventist roots. In doing this, he provides something very valuable for those who think "Russellism" was just a simple split from "Millerism." It's a lot more complicated than that. But he seems to forget that most groups who were smitten with Miller-style Adventism were ashamed of it, and therefore it's easy to find quotes from these same persons trying to distance themselves from it, but not as effectively as they wanted people to think.

  5. No proof. But evidence for a tomb supposedly belonging to to the apostle Peter is very old, reaching back to the century after Peter lived. (Some archaeologists also believe they have found physical evidence for such a tomb.)

    There is no direct Biblical evidence that Peter was ever in Rome. But the early 'church' found it very important to control the location of the bones of martyrs. (There was an early superstition that touching or interacting somehow with the bones, grave or objects owned by martyrs could pass along some of the 'spirit' or miraculous power of that martyr.) The more famous the martyr, the more important it was for the 'church' to control the location of those bones and the tomb. So although the reasons for keeping or moving Peter's tomb to Rome might be very un-Biblical, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

  6. Very interesting and detailed as usual. B W Schulz and R. M. de Vienne (deceased) showed themselves again to be meticulous researches who clearly took time to read a lot of source material to avoid jumping to conclusions. This topic is an area full of ideas that were arrived at this way.

    Some of the details here I have never seen anywhere else.

    If anyone has learned things from any of his books so far that they would like to share, or discuss, or even disagree with, then I hope they'll join a conversation about it.

    I've read the N.H.Barbour book and Volume 1 of "Separate Identity." I learned a lot from both of those.

  7. 5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

    Um, just like Jesus defended the Pharisees ? Offspring of vipers, whitewashed graves, hypocrites etc....

    Absolutely. It depends on the context. Jesus also said:

    (Matthew 23:2, 3) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, . . .

    (Mark 12:28-34) . . .One of the scribes who had come up and heard them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked him: “Which commandment is first of all?” . . . 32 The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you spoke well, in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other besides him’; 33 and to love him with one’s whole heart, with one’s whole understanding, and with one’s whole strength and to love one’s neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 At this Jesus, discerning that he had answered intelligently, said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God.”

  8. 15 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

    And now you will of course jump to their defence.

    People should be defended wherever possible. The motives can be quite pure and still mistakes are made. In fact, I would say that there are specific good motives that make certain kinds of mistakes even more likely. I'm pretty sure that's why we have extra warnings in the Bible about not being misled when it comes to speculation about the end-time events. Paul said not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us. Obviously, the end-time events get us all excited, and these are the most likely times and events that persons would be speculating upon.

  9. 2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

    I did hear Rush on the car radio yesterday . . . making much of his observation that Moore hadn’t seemed to have recognized that his electric car was ultimately powered by fossil fuels, since that’s how electricity is generated. 

    He probably got that from me 😎 since I often point that out each time someone makes too much of electric cars.

    I'm starting to come around, however, since my oldest son drives a hybrid electric/gas and it gets better than twice the gas mileage of my Honda CR-V.  Also, there are now several countries where most of their electricity is now made available from various combinations of hydro, thermal, wind and/or solar -- not oil and gas.

  10. 31 minutes ago, Anna said:

    Was that even possible? 😂

    LOL. You got me there.

    31 minutes ago, Anna said:

    Does that make sense? 🤔

    In other words we have two classes of generation, an overlapping one and a non overlapping one 🤪

    It makes sense, up to a point. Very expressive emojis, btw.

    But TTH is right. This topic does not overlap well with the OP. Guilty!

  11. 11 hours ago, Anna said:

    Was it perhaps too ceremonious in view of this illustrative interpretation of how it might have really looked?

    At least when it's just the two of you, imitating that "bosom position" thing doesn't seem so awkward. Try that at the Hall!

     

    ----references-----

    *** it-1 p. 219 Attitudes and Gestures ***
    In the reclining manner of eating that was practiced during the days Jesus was on earth, to lean on another’s bosom was an attitude of intimate friendship or favor, and this was known as the bosom position. (Joh 13:23, 25) This custom was the basis of the illustrations in Luke 16:22, 23 and John 1:18.

  12. 1 hour ago, Anna said:

    Yes, but don't forget we are now applying an untraditional concept for the word "generation"

    We are, yes, but notice that the chart explicitly names "This Generation" from the quote in Matthew 24:34, and while we may have a specially defined "generation" that includes "This Generation," there is all that gap going up to the Great Tribulation that starts from just after 1992 up until the GT. That part is not part of "This Generation" (according to Splane's chart) even if it's part of our new definition of "generation."

    Perhaps this is a mistake, and the chartmaker just forgot to extend our meaning of generation going all the way up to the Great Tribulation. It's pretty obvious that "all these things" must include the Great Tribulation according to Matthew, Mark and Luke.

    [edited because it was even less clear before the edit]

  13. @James Thomas Rook Jr., I know that I've already said more than my share about this chart. But there is one point that I have never seen discussed very clearly. It's the fact that it's another way of saying the following:

    This generation will by all means have passed away before all these things occur.

    That probably sounds bad, since Jesus said exactly the opposite. But look closely at the chart and note the actual earliest and latest bounds shown for:

    |<-- "This Generation" -->|

    On the chart, "This Generation" only reaches to the time when the last person anointed by the year 1914 has died. Notice that big gap before "The Great Tribulation." It does NOT continue to last into the period when a "group 2" anointed person remains alive after the persons from "group 1" have died. And the talks always imply that there are already no more living persons from "group 1."

    Therefore "This Generation" already finished in 1992 or perhaps a few years after that, although no specific examples were ever brought up as possible candidates, even if unnamed. The idea is given that there may have been possible candidates from group 1 that outlived FWF, but we can assume that these would not have outlived him for very many years. These appear to already be dead based on indications from the talk that Brother Splane was giving.

    Although some might try to stretch group 1, we should remember that a person is not considered "anointed" until they are baptized. A reasonable baptismal age seems to be from about 14 to 30, so we'll accept 14. For a person to be anointed by 1914, they should have been baptized, presumably as a "Bible Student" and therefore aware of the Watchtower's view of the sign in 1914. This means they were born by or before 1900, baptized by or before 1914, and would be at least 120 years old today if they were part of "This Generation."  

    Therefore "This Generation" has already passed away, and all these things did not occur. So, clearly, we are being asked to believe the very opposite of what Jesus said about the generation.

    Jesus: This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.

    Splane: This generation will by all means have passed away before all these things occur.

    Whom do we choose to believe?

  14. 12 hours ago, Arauna said:

    Ha-ha...... believe what you like. Read up . . .

    On the issue of Chinese control of the WHO, it seems that you are giving too much weight to the things you read about various figureheads of certain organizations and governments. I do follow your suggestion to "read up" however and this is the reason I hold beliefs that are often at odds with your own. But this isn't just about reading. It's also about a lot of travel, and communicating directly with persons from widely varying points of view from many different countries on five continents. I still have plenty to learn, of course, and, in fact, I held most of the same viewpoints that you do, until just a very few years ago. 

    Naturally, I don't have time to go into the reasons I have reconsidered so many of my former beliefs about the world. But I think the primary motivation was to learn more about people. I did decide to take an interest in why so many countries have a deep hatred of the "West" that so often leads to violence. I see terrible mistakes being made by many of these countries. But when we start to claim things about them in support of Western propaganda about them, then I realize that, for me, I would just going along with dishonesty in many cases. And in many cases that dishonesty of Western propaganda plays on racism and greed.

    And most importantly to me, an honest consideration of all sides of these arguments also leads to a greater appreciation of Jehovah's Kingdom through Jesus Christ. Also, a greater appreciation of the Bible and it's message about Jehovah's government. And, of course, a much greater appreciation of our worldwide Christian brotherhood.

  15. 13 hours ago, Arauna said:

    just take my word for it, or call me a liar.  ... So I can do without your skepticism.

    ....The country was very advanced even if you do not think so.

    With respect to my congratulations to you, your daughter, and your grandchild, you must have misunderstood.

    Your response surprised me. I never doubted you for a second about the genius and skill of your daughter's doctor. This is why I congratulated you on the birth of a grandchild in a situation that could have ended up quite a bit different in other places. It reminded me of a similar situation around 1974 when so many of us in the Mid-Western United States had very few good doctors to choose from in these circumstances. For bloodless heart operations, we personally knew a brother who had to travel about 1,000 miles to Texas.

  16. 12 hours ago, Arauna said:

    The brilliant surgeon did a fantastic job, quaterizing arteries as he worked. She healed fast after the operation- she took about a quarter of the time it takes  other patients to heal because they usually take blood.

    She overcame the cancer and 6 years ago became a mother of a healthy child - despite doctors warnings.

    Congratulations (and good health) to all three of you: grandmother, mother, and child. And it was great that you found such a brilliant surgeon back around that 1975 time period. I knew Witnesses here who were still struggling to find surgeons who offered blood-free surgery in those years.

  17. 12 hours ago, Arauna said:

    Seems this doctor trained in China and has this attitude.

    What made you think the doctor trained in China? I looked up both doctors mentioned above and neither show up as having been trained in China.

    12 hours ago, Arauna said:

    I am afraid that China has taken control of the WHO and the human rights council

    I don't think you have to be afraid. China did not take control of the WHO. And if they did, based on what we've learned about China and its efficient and humane response to COVID-19, it would probably be about the same or even much better.

    A rotation of a Chinese "Minister" as a member of the UN Human Rights Council seems wrong for those who already fall for absurd exaggerations about how China has dealt with those Chinese Uyghurs who support and join the terrorists and fascists fighting for ISIS. But it is pure hypocrisy to imply that allowing US membership in the UN Human Rights Council is any better. Just a month, China pointed out a few of the areas that highlight human rights violations by the U.S.

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-03-13/China-issues-report-on-human-rights-violations-in-U-S--OPjayudDd6/index.html

    Also, as to control of the WHO, many Chinese complained about US "control" when the WHO exaggerated numbers so badly, creating excess panic over SARS, for example. (Curiously, several US and Western political leaders claimed for a nearly two months that China was highly exaggerating the Covid numbers and saying that they could not have been nearly so high. Then when their own numbers in their own western countries surpassed China, then those Chinese numbers are claimed to be undercounted. Now, it must have been a lot worse in China than they reported.)

    Here are some interesting "control" numbers of the WHO, prior to US pulling out funding. China is pretty far down the list, giving only 76 million compared to over a billion dollars a year from the USA + Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

    image.png

    All human organizations make errors, sometimes costly. But when we focus on one organization, government or entity as always worse than others, we should also take a look at what we might be overlooking. Remember, it's the WHOLE WORLD in the power of the wicked one. 

  18. 33 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

    I’ve heard the argument that God deliberately kept his name obscured

    I've also heard it argued that it showed the greatest example of humility by Jehovah to allow his name to go into obscurity to allow his Son's name to be placed above every other name.

    But I don't really buy it. It was through human superstition, not Jehovah's laws, that the name was obscured. The Bible certainly didn't obscure it. It's the most common, proper name in the Bible.

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