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JW Insider

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  1. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Space Merchant in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    I think I just happened to run across another post like the one you were speaking about above.
    https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/61369/was-the-1914-prophecy-derived-from-the-book-of-daniel-ever-mentioned-in-any-ne/81433
    The responder to that question was @1982 and he also came up with nothing prior to 1914 by anyone except from those comments related to the WT.
    Of course, there is still the question of the unnamed Canadian minister that C T Russell referred to in 1914. I haven't looked yet for more information about him. It may be that this was just one of those cases of someone declaring that "the end is nigh" and "it's going to happen before the end of this year or next at the latest."
    Something like that was always happening somewhere for the majority of years after 1844. Probably, something like that is still happening somewhere in the world nearly every year, even now. This very forum gives evidence of that.
  2. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    Hopefully, visitors will realize two things:
    The first thing is that JWs like myself might have completely different opinions about our chronology doctrines, and therefore, as individuals, any one person's opinion must not be all that important. We can take an interest in varying views but come to our own conclusions about them. This hopefully leads to putting more faith in the Bible as Jehovah's Word, rather than men's words, and each of our own opinions.
    The second thing is that it shows that JWs don't necessarily worship or blindly follow the GB and/or the Organization, but that we value the good things we learn and try to make sense of some of the things that don't make sense to us. We are always trying to make sure of all things, and hold fast to those things that are "fine."
  3. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    Then you appear to disagree with the Watchtower publications on this point, where the 1,335 days end in the "happy" year: 1926.
    *** w51 7/15 pp. 437-438 par. 16 The 1,290 and 1,335 Days of Daniel’s Prophecy ***
    blessed is the one who comes to the 1,335 days. So reckoning this period on from the termination of the 1,290 days would mean from September, 1922, to May, 1926,—three years, eight and one-half months—at which time a large international convention of Jehovah’s people was in session at London, England. It was a season most blessed,
    And from 1977:
    *** go chap. 8 pp. 146-147 par. 57 Marked Days During the “Time of the End” ***
    Truly the year 1926 deserved to be marked as the happy climax of the close of the 1,335 days. Those of Daniel’s “people” who kept in expectation and reached the end of the 1,335 days were launched off into a happiness that has not diminished,
    And even more recently:
    *** w00 5/15 p. 14 par. 28 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***
    The 2,300 days of Daniel chapter 8 as well as the 1,290 and the 1,335 days of chapter 12 are all past—behind us in the stream of time.
     
    Of course, the "evidence on the ground" was quite different. The Yearbook (below) describes this period as one of the unhappiest times in WT history. The brothers and sisters were still reeling from the heartbreaking stumbling of so many brothers due to the failure of the 1925 prophecies from the "Millions" campaign and the failed predictions from the book The Harp of God, and the continuing departure of followers under Rutherford's direction. There were the additional failures of the expectations promoted in the book Comfort for the Jews, which had just come out in 1925 (rescinded in 1930/31), etc. 1926 also saw the beginning of heated arguments with Rutherford over why he still called for campaigns to sell Russell's "Studies in the Scriptures" to the public (from 1926-1931) even though Rutherford had begun to reject the majority of the content of those books.
    *** yb75 p. 146 Part 2—United States of America ***
    A. D. Schroeder states: “It was thought that then the remnant of Christ’s anointed followers would go to heaven to be part of the Kingdom and that the faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David and others, would be resurrected as princes to take over the government of the earth as part of God’s kingdom.”
    The year 1925 came and went. Jesus’ anointed followers were still on earth as a class. The faithful men of old times—Abraham, David and others—had not been resurrected to become princes in the earth. (Ps. 45:16) So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: “1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed.
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Pudgy in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    Hopefully, visitors will realize two things:
    The first thing is that JWs like myself might have completely different opinions about our chronology doctrines, and therefore, as individuals, any one person's opinion must not be all that important. We can take an interest in varying views but come to our own conclusions about them. This hopefully leads to putting more faith in the Bible as Jehovah's Word, rather than men's words, and each of our own opinions.
    The second thing is that it shows that JWs don't necessarily worship or blindly follow the GB and/or the Organization, but that we value the good things we learn and try to make sense of some of the things that don't make sense to us. We are always trying to make sure of all things, and hold fast to those things that are "fine."
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Pudgy in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    Then you appear to disagree with the Watchtower publications on this point, where the 1,335 days end in the "happy" year: 1926.
    *** w51 7/15 pp. 437-438 par. 16 The 1,290 and 1,335 Days of Daniel’s Prophecy ***
    blessed is the one who comes to the 1,335 days. So reckoning this period on from the termination of the 1,290 days would mean from September, 1922, to May, 1926,—three years, eight and one-half months—at which time a large international convention of Jehovah’s people was in session at London, England. It was a season most blessed,
    And from 1977:
    *** go chap. 8 pp. 146-147 par. 57 Marked Days During the “Time of the End” ***
    Truly the year 1926 deserved to be marked as the happy climax of the close of the 1,335 days. Those of Daniel’s “people” who kept in expectation and reached the end of the 1,335 days were launched off into a happiness that has not diminished,
    And even more recently:
    *** w00 5/15 p. 14 par. 28 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***
    The 2,300 days of Daniel chapter 8 as well as the 1,290 and the 1,335 days of chapter 12 are all past—behind us in the stream of time.
     
    Of course, the "evidence on the ground" was quite different. The Yearbook (below) describes this period as one of the unhappiest times in WT history. The brothers and sisters were still reeling from the heartbreaking stumbling of so many brothers due to the failure of the 1925 prophecies from the "Millions" campaign and the failed predictions from the book The Harp of God, and the continuing departure of followers under Rutherford's direction. There were the additional failures of the expectations promoted in the book Comfort for the Jews, which had just come out in 1925 (rescinded in 1930/31), etc. 1926 also saw the beginning of heated arguments with Rutherford over why he still called for campaigns to sell Russell's "Studies in the Scriptures" to the public (from 1926-1931) even though Rutherford had begun to reject the majority of the content of those books.
    *** yb75 p. 146 Part 2—United States of America ***
    A. D. Schroeder states: “It was thought that then the remnant of Christ’s anointed followers would go to heaven to be part of the Kingdom and that the faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David and others, would be resurrected as princes to take over the government of the earth as part of God’s kingdom.”
    The year 1925 came and went. Jesus’ anointed followers were still on earth as a class. The faithful men of old times—Abraham, David and others—had not been resurrected to become princes in the earth. (Ps. 45:16) So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: “1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed.
  6. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    I think I just happened to run across another post like the one you were speaking about above.
    https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/61369/was-the-1914-prophecy-derived-from-the-book-of-daniel-ever-mentioned-in-any-ne/81433
    The responder to that question was @1982 and he also came up with nothing prior to 1914 by anyone except from those comments related to the WT.
    Of course, there is still the question of the unnamed Canadian minister that C T Russell referred to in 1914. I haven't looked yet for more information about him. It may be that this was just one of those cases of someone declaring that "the end is nigh" and "it's going to happen before the end of this year or next at the latest."
    Something like that was always happening somewhere for the majority of years after 1844. Probably, something like that is still happening somewhere in the world nearly every year, even now. This very forum gives evidence of that.
  7. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Pudgy in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    I think I just happened to run across another post like the one you were speaking about above.
    https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/61369/was-the-1914-prophecy-derived-from-the-book-of-daniel-ever-mentioned-in-any-ne/81433
    The responder to that question was @1982 and he also came up with nothing prior to 1914 by anyone except from those comments related to the WT.
    Of course, there is still the question of the unnamed Canadian minister that C T Russell referred to in 1914. I haven't looked yet for more information about him. It may be that this was just one of those cases of someone declaring that "the end is nigh" and "it's going to happen before the end of this year or next at the latest."
    Something like that was always happening somewhere for the majority of years after 1844. Probably, something like that is still happening somewhere in the world nearly every year, even now. This very forum gives evidence of that.
  8. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to Pudgy in The Last Days... When?   
    Cartoon dogs do not get baptized .... we have Bark-Mitzvahs.
  9. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in The Last Days... When?   
    You are going to confuse BroRando. I'd say that he is not BTK, despite any similarities you see.
  10. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in The Last Days... When?   
    Psst….I happen to know that JW Insider is Scholar JW
  11. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in The Last Days... When?   
    But that's not all Jesus said about what we would know. Jesus added:
    (Acts 1:7) . . .He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
    Being alert to the fact that the end can come at any moment is good. Always being on the watch that our conduct is proper and that our attitude is proper, and that we serve Jehovah for the right reasons and in good conscience. This is proper.
    (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
    Also, if it were as simple as BroRando makes it out to be, don't you think at least one of the 100,000,000 angels would have figured it out from reading about "tree dream" which Daniel said was fulfilled through Nebuchadnezzar?
    (Matthew 24:36) . . .neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
    What kind of hubris would make any of us think we could know better than the angels?
    Speculation can be fun and entertaining, but if we try to limit the words of Jesus, we might end up actually rejecting those words. And we can end up giving too much credence to "meaningless talk."
    (1 Timothy 1:4-6) . . .nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith. 5 Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk.
     
  12. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in The Last Days... When?   
    But that's not all Jesus said about what we would know. Jesus added:
    (Acts 1:7) . . .He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
    Being alert to the fact that the end can come at any moment is good. Always being on the watch that our conduct is proper and that our attitude is proper, and that we serve Jehovah for the right reasons and in good conscience. This is proper.
    (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
    Also, if it were as simple as BroRando makes it out to be, don't you think at least one of the 100,000,000 angels would have figured it out from reading about "tree dream" which Daniel said was fulfilled through Nebuchadnezzar?
    (Matthew 24:36) . . .neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
    What kind of hubris would make any of us think we could know better than the angels?
    Speculation can be fun and entertaining, but if we try to limit the words of Jesus, we might end up actually rejecting those words. And we can end up giving too much credence to "meaningless talk."
    (1 Timothy 1:4-6) . . .nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith. 5 Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk.
     
  13. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    CSE is well-indexed by Google, but the closest comment I could find in this regard was the following on CSE:
    Baptist William Miller came up with calculations pointing to 1844 as the second coming of Christ Jesus. Seventh Day Adventists, along with members of the Bahai’ Faith, also point to October 1844 as being highly significant with regard to end-time prophecy. As far as I am aware, the only other group apart from Jehovah’s Witnesses who still cling to 1914 are the survivors of the original Bible Students who voted with their feet and left the organisation after the second President, Rutherford, introduced the name Jehovah’s Witnesses.
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    [edted to add: The question implies that there were Bible Students who believed that Christ became King in 1914. As far as I know none ever dd. Not even Russell and Rutherford.]
    Remember, though, that most of the Bible Student groups broke off long before even the Bible Students under Russell and Rutherford believed that Christ became King in 1914. Russell believed that Jesus Christ became King in 1878, and he believed this right up until he died. Rutherford believed that Jesus became King in 1878, well into the 1920's. (Remember the famous "Advertise, Advertise, Advertise" speech at Cedar Point, Ohio in 1922?) It wasn't until Rutherford died in 1942, that Fred Franz could officially change Christ's presence from 1874 until 1914. This happened in the books "The Truth Shall Make You Free" (1943) and "The Kingdom Is At Hand" (1944). As jw.org says:
    *** jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
    Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they also concluded that if Jesus’ baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to the spring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his power as heavenly King.
    *** jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
    That 1878 was a year of significance seemed to be fortified by reference to Jeremiah 16:18 (‘Jacob’s double,’ KJ) along with calculations indicating that 1,845 years had apparently elapsed from Jacob’s death down till 33 C.E., when natural Israel was cast off, and that the double, or duplicate, of this would extend from 33 C.E. down to 1878.
    Extending the parallels further, it was stated that the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. (37 years after Jesus was hailed as king by his disciples when he rode into Jerusalem) might point to 1915 (37 years after 1878) for a culmination of anarchistic upheaval that they thought God would permit as a means for bringing existing institutions of the world to their end. This date appeared in reprints of Studies in the Scriptures.
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. The millennium that was to be marked by the detaining of Satan the Devil enchained in the abyss and by the reign of the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in heavenly glory was therefore yet in the future. What, then, about the parousia (presence) of Christ? Page 324 of the above book positively says: “The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914.” Also, in the Watchtower issue of July 15, 1949 (page 215, paragraph 22), the statement is made: “ . . . Messiah, the Son of man, came into Kingdom power A.D. 1914 and . . . this constitutes his second coming and the beginning of his second parousía or presence.”
    Over the years Rutherford had made a few sometimes vague comments that the "kingdom" chronology was being adjusted, but he relied on it thoroughly for his 1925 predictions. Also, there were some more specific comments in a 1924 booklet written by Van Amburgh (not written by Rutherford) and in the Golden Age (edited by Woodworth) that made it pretty clear that this change from 1878 to 1914 was in the works. 
    But the publications quoted on jw.org showed that the old 1874/1878 chronology was not completely removed until 1943. During those 60-some years from 1878 to 1943, all the Bible Student spin-offs and break-aways had already left. In fact most of them had left between 1917 and 1929, when apparently less than a quarter of the original Russellite Bible Students were still associated with the Watch Tower Society. Note these (generally factual) ideas from the resources quoted in the Wikipedia footnotes:
    The Bible Student movement is a Millennialist[1]Restorationist Christian movement that emerged from the teachings and ministry of Charles Taze Russell, also known as Pastor Russell. Members of the movement have variously referred to themselves as Bible Students, International Bible Students, Associated Bible Students, or Independent Bible Students. The origins of the movement are associated with . . .Russell's teachings.
    A number of schisms developed within the congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society between 1909 and 1932.[2][3] The most significant split began in 1917 following the election of Joseph Franklin Rutherford . . .
    Thousands of members left congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society throughout the 1920s . . . . William Schnell, author and former Jehovah's Witness, claims that three quarters of the original Bible Students who had been associating with the Watch Tower Society in 1919 had left by 1931.[4][3][a] In 1930 Rutherford stated that "the total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society... is comparatively large."[5]
    Between 1918 and 1929, several factions formed their own independent fellowships, including the Stand Fast Movement, the Pastoral Bible Institute, the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement founded by PSL Johnson, and the Dawn Bible Students Association. These groups range from conservative, claiming to be Russell's true followers, to more liberal, claiming that Russell's role is not as important as once believed.[6] Rutherford's faction of the movement retained control of the Watch Tower Society[6] and adopted the name Jehovah's witnesses in July 1931.[b]
  15. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    CSE is well-indexed by Google, but the closest comment I could find in this regard was the following on CSE:
    Baptist William Miller came up with calculations pointing to 1844 as the second coming of Christ Jesus. Seventh Day Adventists, along with members of the Bahai’ Faith, also point to October 1844 as being highly significant with regard to end-time prophecy. As far as I am aware, the only other group apart from Jehovah’s Witnesses who still cling to 1914 are the survivors of the original Bible Students who voted with their feet and left the organisation after the second President, Rutherford, introduced the name Jehovah’s Witnesses.
  16. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End...   
    [edted to add: The question implies that there were Bible Students who believed that Christ became King in 1914. As far as I know none ever dd. Not even Russell and Rutherford.]
    Remember, though, that most of the Bible Student groups broke off long before even the Bible Students under Russell and Rutherford believed that Christ became King in 1914. Russell believed that Jesus Christ became King in 1878, and he believed this right up until he died. Rutherford believed that Jesus became King in 1878, well into the 1920's. (Remember the famous "Advertise, Advertise, Advertise" speech at Cedar Point, Ohio in 1922?) It wasn't until Rutherford died in 1942, that Fred Franz could officially change Christ's presence from 1874 until 1914. This happened in the books "The Truth Shall Make You Free" (1943) and "The Kingdom Is At Hand" (1944). As jw.org says:
    *** jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
    Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they also concluded that if Jesus’ baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to the spring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his power as heavenly King.
    *** jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
    That 1878 was a year of significance seemed to be fortified by reference to Jeremiah 16:18 (‘Jacob’s double,’ KJ) along with calculations indicating that 1,845 years had apparently elapsed from Jacob’s death down till 33 C.E., when natural Israel was cast off, and that the double, or duplicate, of this would extend from 33 C.E. down to 1878.
    Extending the parallels further, it was stated that the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. (37 years after Jesus was hailed as king by his disciples when he rode into Jerusalem) might point to 1915 (37 years after 1878) for a culmination of anarchistic upheaval that they thought God would permit as a means for bringing existing institutions of the world to their end. This date appeared in reprints of Studies in the Scriptures.
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. The millennium that was to be marked by the detaining of Satan the Devil enchained in the abyss and by the reign of the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in heavenly glory was therefore yet in the future. What, then, about the parousia (presence) of Christ? Page 324 of the above book positively says: “The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914.” Also, in the Watchtower issue of July 15, 1949 (page 215, paragraph 22), the statement is made: “ . . . Messiah, the Son of man, came into Kingdom power A.D. 1914 and . . . this constitutes his second coming and the beginning of his second parousía or presence.”
    Over the years Rutherford had made a few sometimes vague comments that the "kingdom" chronology was being adjusted, but he relied on it thoroughly for his 1925 predictions. Also, there were some more specific comments in a 1924 booklet written by Van Amburgh (not written by Rutherford) and in the Golden Age (edited by Woodworth) that made it pretty clear that this change from 1878 to 1914 was in the works. 
    But the publications quoted on jw.org showed that the old 1874/1878 chronology was not completely removed until 1943. During those 60-some years from 1878 to 1943, all the Bible Student spin-offs and break-aways had already left. In fact most of them had left between 1917 and 1929, when apparently less than a quarter of the original Russellite Bible Students were still associated with the Watch Tower Society. Note these (generally factual) ideas from the resources quoted in the Wikipedia footnotes:
    The Bible Student movement is a Millennialist[1]Restorationist Christian movement that emerged from the teachings and ministry of Charles Taze Russell, also known as Pastor Russell. Members of the movement have variously referred to themselves as Bible Students, International Bible Students, Associated Bible Students, or Independent Bible Students. The origins of the movement are associated with . . .Russell's teachings.
    A number of schisms developed within the congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society between 1909 and 1932.[2][3] The most significant split began in 1917 following the election of Joseph Franklin Rutherford . . .
    Thousands of members left congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society throughout the 1920s . . . . William Schnell, author and former Jehovah's Witness, claims that three quarters of the original Bible Students who had been associating with the Watch Tower Society in 1919 had left by 1931.[4][3][a] In 1930 Rutherford stated that "the total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society... is comparatively large."[5]
    Between 1918 and 1929, several factions formed their own independent fellowships, including the Stand Fast Movement, the Pastoral Bible Institute, the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement founded by PSL Johnson, and the Dawn Bible Students Association. These groups range from conservative, claiming to be Russell's true followers, to more liberal, claiming that Russell's role is not as important as once believed.[6] Rutherford's faction of the movement retained control of the Watch Tower Society[6] and adopted the name Jehovah's witnesses in July 1931.[b]
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Space Merchant in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Thanks for posting this. On this forum one might even forget that the Catholics have a problem. Also, I've seen statistics that are surprisingly detailed for some religious organizations, reminding me that JWs aren't the only ones who keep records on such issues, including from among their congregants/laymen/parishioners.
  18. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Thanks for posting this. On this forum one might even forget that the Catholics have a problem. Also, I've seen statistics that are surprisingly detailed for some religious organizations, reminding me that JWs aren't the only ones who keep records on such issues, including from among their congregants/laymen/parishioners.
  19. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Pudgy in The Progenitor - A New Book by one of Jehovah's Witnesses   
    It will have to be "Others." I don't have a satisfactory answer. I don't know. Perhaps @bruceq has come up with something.
  20. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to bruceq in "Jehovah Our God is One Jehovah" - A New Book by one of Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Here is a new book by one of Jehovah's Witnesses against the false doctrine of the Trinity.
    Can be found on ebay, Amazon or Etsy. "Jehovah Our God is One Jehovah"
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/393568174808

    https://amzn.to/3Ca2CSx



  21. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Child sexual abuse has been found in most major UK religions   
    Thanks for posting this. On this forum one might even forget that the Catholics have a problem. Also, I've seen statistics that are surprisingly detailed for some religious organizations, reminding me that JWs aren't the only ones who keep records on such issues, including from among their congregants/laymen/parishioners.
  22. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to xero in The 144k and the GB...gnostics?   
    Not really. Some people just get more discipline than others. If you know anything, you know that no one gets DF'ed for doing anything. They get DF'ed for their attitude about what they're doing. If you don't cop an attitude, you generally don't get DF'ed. Now it's true that you can look at a person's behavior and intuit the attitude especially if they keep repeating the thing that got them disciplinary attention to begin with. Some people need something sterner to get their attention. But no one's been weeded. These can still stay in the garden, they just don't have all the privileges they had formerly. The "weeding" is what people do to themselves when they leave permanently. Are they leaving to a better, more correct group of Christians, or just a group who'll tolerate all manner of bad behavior? Or, and this is what some do, they become atheists or agnostics in a sense saying "If God doesn't present himself in a way I understand and approve of, I'll just wave my hands and he'll cease to exist." Yes, it is their job to shepherd the flock and yes it means to watch out for malcontents and others who'd want people to go astray. (This is the problem I see in Christendom in general) More denominations SHOULD disfellowship their members. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. Now you can argue that the way some handle their associations w/DF'd ones isn't something handled well at times and you'd be right, but that's going to happen w/everything that humans are involved with. They are going to get it wrong. Family members have to take responsibility for the way they handle members of their own family and others who are DF'ed - there are going to be some who minimize the discipline and they have to deal with that (and I've seen that they do...eventually).
    Issues w/CSA and these other things have been examined by others outside as well as inside and adjustments have been made, but no....it's not perfect and never will be, but when this organization is contrasted w/others there isn't a better organization I'm aware of doctrinally or practice-wise with which one might associate.
    Do I believe every recent interpretation or other older interpretations which have come down the pike? No. And I don't teach any of those things as facts, but as interpretations. The facts are clear and these are what can be clearly pointed to in scripture - the rest is speculation and there is and has always been organizational speculation as well as private and personal speculation. Does this mean that Jehovah isn't in control and directing things? No.
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in The 144k and the GB...gnostics?   
    “As chairman of the resurrection Welcome Wagon, it is my honor to welcome you back from the dead. We have it set up so the guy who is resurrected, after a brief orientation, gets to chair the committee to greet the next group. I’m King David. You may have read of me when……um…….(gulp)……oh, hello Uriah. It’s good to see you.”
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to xero in The 144k and the GB...gnostics?   
    If you can tell the difference between good and bad advice, you don't need it, if you can't it doesn't matter because you'll just end up finding out anyway. There are times when you can end up in the right place following the wrong advice and times you can end up in the wrong place following the right advice and whether it's the wrong place or the right place or not depends on Jehovah.
    There was the time King David (actually, before he was king) when he'd had it w/Saul making his life difficult so he left Israel to go fight as a mercenary for the Philistines. Now he'd always vowed to not lift his hand up (w/graffiti or otherwise) against the anointed of Jehovah, but maybe he's changed his mind because he's on his way to Mt. Gilboa w/the Philistines to fight Saul...but at Aphek he's stopped and sent home...now could be this southward movement of men might have looked like a flanking maneuver to the Israelite scouts and maybe this put them out of position so they weren't in time to defend the entrance to the Jezreel valley leading ultimately to Saul's death? Who knows? Jehovah could have used David in a way to both stop him from breaking his vow AND leading to Saul's death and ultimate replacement. That's all speculation, but could be that's what was going down.
    Thing is, though David didn't fight against an arguably bad King because he was put there by Jehovah and Jehovah was going to have to take him out. In any case, Jehovah's will was done and we can likewise know it will be done today.
    You just don't want to be the intentional instrument to take down anyone or any group whom you see doing God's will, not matter how defective you imagine them to be. We aren't authorized to trash the dragnet either any more than we're authorized to do some weeding, but we can weed ourselves and our own hearts and we should.
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in The 144k and the GB...gnostics?   
    Bolding WT publications such as this one, do you imagine you have uncovered some dark mystical “gnostic” secret? Or is this not the way knowledge of anything is acquired? If you want to be an electrician, isn’t the best way to put yourself in close association with someone who has already grasped the material?
    Knowledge in the case of this Watchtower quote is not the hidden knowledge of the Gnostics. It is Bible knowledge, available to all. All that is needed is a guide. 
    And it apparently works. The Bible tenets that describe Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone are found nowhere except where the GB is taking the lead.
    That there is no immortal soul, no trinity, use God’s name, kingdom a real government, everlasting life on earth, why God permits evil, exactly how the ransom works, what happens to the dead, and so forth. Few Christian denominations teach even one of these. No one teaches all of them. Only where the GB is present does it happen. In that sense, though G Jackson was ridiculed for it, he is exactly right. They serve as “guardians of doctrine.” Where they are not present, doctrine is scattered to the four winds..
    Nor do they “decide what knowledge is” in the sense you imply—simply making things up as though from a secret “gnostic” source. In all cases it is from the Bible. They point people to it—no more—after which it is clear the Bible itself does the instructing. As in the following case:
    “Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?”  He said: “Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?” And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.” (Acts 8:31-32)
    There is nothing mystical about the know in this verse. It’s not gnostic. It is just plain and simple knowledge of the scriptures. The eunuch just needed someone with a key to unlock it. 
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