JW Insider

Yes, this clarification is important.
Unfortunately, those who are taking the lead, and believe they are in charge of producing food at the proper time, feel, and have felt, the need to put their hope into a definite prediction of sorts, rather than just talking about a hope.....that is sometime in the future. Hence we have a reworking of the 'Generation' although as far as I am aware no one requested "new light" on this. 

I can understand making predictions. I can't count the times I thought to myself during a meeting "Shhh!...I'm just looking at Daniel again...nothing to see here holy spirit..." as if the answer is in plain sight but hidden unless you look really quickly when Jehovah's not looking....

To their credit, Russell and Rutherford and Franz and the current GB have all given good evidence that they hoped for the end. Sometimes a strong hope for the end will cloud one's judgment about the rationality of predicting a specific time period for the end. But there is a big difference in hoping for the end, which is always proper, and predicting a specific time period for the end, which is ALWAYS improper, according to Jesus. We have examples set before us in the Bible showing the folly of trying to predict the time period. The Bible gives many reasons why this is foolishness to try to predict the time period.
Hoping for the end implies faithfulness and humility. Predicting a specific time period for the end implies presumptuousness and haughtiness.

To their credit, Russell and Rutherford and Franz and the current GB have all given good evidence that they hoped for the end. Sometimes a strong hope for the end will cloud one's judgment about the rationality of predicting a specific time period for the end. But there is a big difference in hoping for the end, which is always proper, and predicting a specific time period for the end, which is ALWAYS improper, according to Jesus. We have examples set before us in the Bible showing the folly of trying to predict the time period. The Bible gives many reasons why this is foolishness to try to predict the time period.
Hoping for the end implies faithfulness and humility. Predicting a specific time period for the end implies presumptuousness and haughtiness.

To their credit, Russell and Rutherford and Franz and the current GB have all given good evidence that they hoped for the end. Sometimes a strong hope for the end will cloud one's judgment about the rationality of predicting a specific time period for the end. But there is a big difference in hoping for the end, which is always proper, and predicting a specific time period for the end, which is ALWAYS improper, according to Jesus. We have examples set before us in the Bible showing the folly of trying to predict the time period. The Bible gives many reasons why this is foolishness to try to predict the time period.
Hoping for the end implies faithfulness and humility. Predicting a specific time period for the end implies presumptuousness and haughtiness.

To their credit, Russell and Rutherford and Franz and the current GB have all given good evidence that they hoped for the end. Sometimes a strong hope for the end will cloud one's judgment about the rationality of predicting a specific time period for the end. But there is a big difference in hoping for the end, which is always proper, and predicting a specific time period for the end, which is ALWAYS improper, according to Jesus. We have examples set before us in the Bible showing the folly of trying to predict the time period. The Bible gives many reasons why this is foolishness to try to predict the time period.
Hoping for the end implies faithfulness and humility. Predicting a specific time period for the end implies presumptuousness and haughtiness.

To their credit, Russell and Rutherford and Franz and the current GB have all given good evidence that they hoped for the end. Sometimes a strong hope for the end will cloud one's judgment about the rationality of predicting a specific time period for the end. But there is a big difference in hoping for the end, which is always proper, and predicting a specific time period for the end, which is ALWAYS improper, according to Jesus. We have examples set before us in the Bible showing the folly of trying to predict the time period. The Bible gives many reasons why this is foolishness to try to predict the time period.
Hoping for the end implies faithfulness and humility. Predicting a specific time period for the end implies presumptuousness and haughtiness.

Lockdowns are a great problem. We are doing field service and encouraging sisters online due to this circumstance. Yes, the very elderly have problems but Jehovah is just and kind and he will remember their faithfulness in the past.  It is not the GBs fault that we have a pandemic, neither is it Jehovah's fault..... it is Satan's world we are living in. GB will obey the law until they force us by law  to disobey god...... then we will kindly and passively disobey man and obey Jehovah.
The world tide is turning, becoming totalitarian and secular - several countries now ruling by decree under emergency measures.  10 years imprisonment in Britain for visiting Portugal..... a decree not passed by the lower house. They are already turning against religion in USA - especially white Christians.  Saw a report this morning given to Biden against Christians labelling some as extremist and a new law tabled law under number 350.
If your mum's faith is lagging it is because she is locked in - we are supposed to be encouraging each other and giving physical hugs and warmth...... There were illegal experiments done on people (MKULTRA) in USA. Depriving people of sensorial input destabilized them and drove them mad. 
Yes we are living in extreme times and set to become worse. If you trust me enough you can send me your mum's telephone number and I will communicate with her now and then and support her. 

Plan as if Alan will be out of your hair tomorrow. Live as if you know he won’t be.

Yes, of course. I think most who write here write for some other motive. It is certainly true of me.
Sure. It could be I’ve been here too long. I’ve come to regard the forum as “mine”—indeed, some have thought it is—and here I ignore that good advise with impunity. I suppose that’s not good—it certainly is not according to our training. Alas, I’ve come to know the characters too well, or at least have become set in my view of the characters. I have to set my own terms for being here, because I think it is not right to earnestly discuss spiritual things with those who unequivocally hate the Christian organization. (not to imply that you have no problem with it, of course. I don’t think it. You’re doing what all faithful visitors do, what I did at one time.) But neither do I want to be seen as an attack dog.
Having said that, see how long it takes for that idiot 4Jah to get on your nerves. You can write a post about torture and he will attach a laughing emoji to it. He asks JWI about Santa Claus, for he is not sure himself, and JWI says there is no Santa Claus. Then he calls JWI a hypocrite for observing December. 
(Let the reader use discernment, but if he doesn’t want to, that’s okay too. Maybe I’ve been here too long.)

I have noticed that the desire to see God's promises fulfilled (nothing wrong with that of course), drives the human spirit to "predict" or "hope for" the end always in their life time. The pattern is clear: Russell hoped for the end in 1874 then 1914, Rutherford 1925, Franz 1975, the 80's GB by the end of the 20th century, today's GB between now and aprox. 2035.
Each generation would say their children aren't going to make it to school....now those  children have children of their own...and grandchildren
There are recent discussions on JW talk with brothers and sisters giving this old world no more than 5 years, and there are a few optimistic ones who say within a year. If you were to ask members of your congregation when do they think the end will come, you will hear similar sentiments. Many believe the pandemic will lead straight into the GT.
Of course logically, the end will come in someone's life time, and one day we will be right.
I admire Isaac Newton because his "prediction" defied the rules of wishing for it in one's lifetime. For that reason he seems more believable. But of course I hope he is wrong...because of course I would like it to happen in our lifetime! Oh, the irony of it! 😂
It is not wrong to hope for good things to come, what is wrong is our serving God only for that reason, and building our hope up to the point of expectation delayed making us sick.
You have probably heard this sentiment before, it's great, and I like to remind myself of it periodically: "Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

The question is never "where should we go?" but "whom shall we follow?". We follow (as we are able) Jesus. Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate? If we aren't careful, we'll be creating a cult of one, just ourselves. We absolutely need association with fellow believers, but again, how much diversity are we willing to allow? If we look with a critical eye at the accounts we read of life as a Christian in the first century, we see a lot of diversity and a lot of contention. No one was living their faith in lock-step with each other. People differed as to their opinions on following the law (or not). People were engaging in gossip. People were bad-mouthing their brothers, and Paul and others as well. Everything bad that could happen, did happen then. But they had a core hope. They all agreed that Jesus was the messiah. They had predictions about when the end would come (and they were wrong too). I understand it's harder for some than for others to remain when others don't share their views or when others appear to insist you share theirs. Guess what? The same thing happened in the first century.
So I asked before and I'll ask again. Was your experience all negative, or were there just aspects of it you found you simply couldn't reconcile? What of your beliefs do you have with which you can share with the wider group of people in the world who refer to themselves (and believe it) as "Christians".
Once I was asked by a person I'd called on for years whether I thought it was absolutely necessary to be a card-carrying JW to survive Armageddon. I said "I hope not. Because 27k hours later of talking w/people at the door has let me know how I'm no better (and probably worse) than a lot of people." He then asked "So why are you here then? Why do you do this?" I said "Inertia...that and for the same reason I lift weights and run. The weights don't change and the roads I run on don't change, but I do for the effort. Doing this work changed me and continues to change me, and I'd like to think for the better."

You know what's funny, is that most of the people I've seen who were partakers were weird in some way or another.
We're told that their spirit tells them. We're not supposed to question it.
We do of course. We try to correlate their external behavior and appearance w/being 'anointed'
I have to say I don't know who is or isn't, but it doesn't matter. It's not as if someone's personal profession makes them any more knowledgeable or holy than anyone else in any given congregation.
I remember the 1st memorial I went to. There was all this fanfare and yet the talk was dull and we all had to be careful not to spill the wine and everyone's ears were listening quietly to see if they heard any crunching sounds. ("Psst! Did you see that! So and so partook!") Then we had to rush out so the next congregation could get in.
I thought it all pretty silly at the time and over the years if I saw anyone not one foot into the grave w/decades of service I thought "Huh". But I reconciled myself to the decisions others made as their problem (if any) and not mine.
Suppose someone professes to be of the anointed, should I change my behavior towards them? No. Defer to them when they present a scriptural argument that doesn't wash? No.
I have seen though that a lot of people have been looking at all this either waiting for them to die off, like they are the sands in the hourglass counting down to the end of this system.
Not that I blame them. Any more than I blame anyone. I do see, however in some the desire to be in charge, and I'm always suspicious of anyone who revels in telling others what to do and how to do it.
If I've gotten in any trouble w/fellow elders it's because I don't dunk on publishers when I could. So sister X is weird and partakes. So sister X has a lot of opinions. Hey, maybe she has something to say, maybe she's just feeling lonely and unremarkable and wants to feel remarkable. Fine.
One CO said when some bros complained about another bro that he didn't do things unless he got a lot of praise - "So praise him. No skin off your nose."

I would comment this way. Example: Birthday and celebrating a birthday is not “satanic”. But wishing someone’s death as a birthday wish is certainly “satanic”.
The discovery of a new communication technique and resources (clay tablets, paper, pens, analog and digital notation and everything that will be invented in the future) cannot simply be described as "divine" or "satanic". All of these things are mostly or completely “neutral” at their core.
Producing a weapon with the intent to kill causes some questions. Whether these weapons were created to defend their own lives or to hunt for food or to conquer and enslave or destroy, we can say that the weapon is dangerous. But if one uses a weapon to save or defend one’s life, then it is difficult to attribute any or specific origin to such a weapon.
I would say that the intention and purpose is in the hands (mind, emotion) of the user, and the one in whose hands the "tool" is, can to some extent be classified in some category.

Yes. Thanks. Hope no one was confused. Now I finally understand why CC gave me the downvote. 😉

Trolling "logic." @Matthew9969

The remark sort of speaks for itself, doesn’t it? 
I like it when anti-Witness spokespeople come across as either pure hate cases or unhinged crazies—often both.

" All things are clean to clean people;+ but to those who are defiled and faithless, nothing is clean, for both their minds and their consciences are defiled"- Titus 1:15

Yes. Thanks. Hope no one was confused. Now I finally understand why CC gave me the downvote. 😉

No. It was an outlier congregation in every way. Even the guys wore makeup.

Naw, his was that rouge congregation we used to hear about where even a ministerial servant appointment required a 6-year degree.

Yes. But they stopped pointing to the end of the century back in the late 1980's as far as I remember. So in the 1990's one could only get this by implication, not from anything directly. So you didn't have a bunch of people actually getting closer to 1998, then 1999, who would start to say it must be by the year 2000 or 2001.
And it wasn't the GB trying to get attention by continuing to "cry wolf" as you said above. That would be a sure way to get people to stop paying attention, just like it works out in the story of the boy who cried wolf. It more likely shows that the GB were so sure it was true that they were willing to risk revealing how sure they were, and therefore risk not being paid attention to. I think they would only do that if they thought it was important.
On the other hand, I wish they didn't think that telling us how close we are to the end was so important. The point should always be how close we might be to the end so that we are prepared --not by thinking about signs and chronology-- but so that we are prepared by thinking about what sort of persons we ought to be. Development of true Christian character (i.e., love for God and neighbor) has always been much more important than trying to find visible signs upon which to hang our faith in the promises.

Many ex-JWs and opposers obsess over the fact that the Watchtower promoted these same expectations for the mid-1970's with a focus on the year 1975. My 3 children were all born in the period from the mid-to-late 80's, and I saw this same view beginning in my own children, matching that of the 11-year old "version" of the girl above.
To those of us who had been Witnesses during the 1975 period, most of us probably thought it refreshing that there was no longer a specific set of years being pointed to any more, and we seemed "safe" from date-setting. But even young children picked up on the idea that all this "suffering" for the sake of the kingdom was only for a few short years, and there would never be a need to learn how to make a living in this system of things. It really did change their outlook on school and career and marriage and providing for one's family. "Jehovah will provide" became a catchphrase of sisters who assumed that brothers with good jobs would be coming into the truth in time to make good marriage mates if somehow the system lasted long enough for them to need a husband with "means." I dreaded that this kind of attitude would influence my own daughter.
My own experiences with respect to 1975 might be considered sad to outsiders, but I don't look back at them with any remorse. I was baptized in 1967, and was still 15, almost 16, when I quit school in 1973 to begin f-t pioneering. I took to heart the Watchtower's counsel and advice that the system had only a few months after this 1975 period, not years. The commendations for selling houses and pioneering affected my family too. My father didn't believe in the 1975 hype, and even got in trouble (from the D.O.) after a circuit assembly talk, by adding that Jesus' words (about no one knowing the day or the hour) showed how we should also be balanced. That was rather unforgettable, but my father still sold our house and moved us into a rented house in 1974, so that my mother could begin f-t pioneering, too.
My brother started an office-cleaning business in 1974 as many other pioneers had done. Only, he didn't pioneer himself but kept expanding the business with more accounts and ended up providing jobs for about 20 pioneers. He finally sold the business for about $20,000 to a full-time pioneer (in '77).  I'm sure that the number of new businesses across the country called "Pioneer Cleaning Services" shot up considerably in this period. A lot of people probably don't know that "Rug Doctor" was started this way, and my brother was good friends with the Witness founder. Their web site only says that it was started more than 43 years ago (implying before 1977) but it was actually started in 1974/5.
In 1977, my Bethel roommate, my brother, and the daughter of one of the Rug Doctor partners were the only people I knew (at the time) who had been invited to Bethel without any full-time pioneering experience.
They had all involved themselves either in learning computer science or electronics (programmable microprocessor controllers) in my brother's case. So after Bethel, I got a bachelor's degree in computer science. The congregation and the elders were very prejudiced against it, but as long as I kept full-time pioneering during college I got away with it.
Times are a bit different again, and college is definitely no guarantee of a better job. It often brings unnecessary debt and stress. But I never discouraged college for my three children and, as things turned out, I'm currently glad I didn't. But there is still a lot of prejudice against pioneering in most congregations I know.
My kids all had music, orchestra, and choir in high school, and kept their skills up for another few years in college. They would draw the line at national anthems, too, but rarely bowed out of any other songs or performances. So much music is permeated with religious or political foundations anyway that it would be impossible to completely separate from it without getting out of orchestra or choir altogether. I think that most Witnesses compromise and hardly realize it when they participate in American high school music classes especially.

Yes. But they stopped pointing to the end of the century back in the late 1980's as far as I remember. So in the 1990's one could only get this by implication, not from anything directly. So you didn't have a bunch of people actually getting closer to 1998, then 1999, who would start to say it must be by the year 2000 or 2001.
And it wasn't the GB trying to get attention by continuing to "cry wolf" as you said above. That would be a sure way to get people to stop paying attention, just like it works out in the story of the boy who cried wolf. It more likely shows that the GB were so sure it was true that they were willing to risk revealing how sure they were, and therefore risk not being paid attention to. I think they would only do that if they thought it was important.
On the other hand, I wish they didn't think that telling us how close we are to the end was so important. The point should always be how close we might be to the end so that we are prepared --not by thinking about signs and chronology-- but so that we are prepared by thinking about what sort of persons we ought to be. Development of true Christian character (i.e., love for God and neighbor) has always been much more important than trying to find visible signs upon which to hang our faith in the promises.

Many ex-JWs and opposers obsess over the fact that the Watchtower promoted these same expectations for the mid-1970's with a focus on the year 1975. My 3 children were all born in the period from the mid-to-late 80's, and I saw this same view beginning in my own children, matching that of the 11-year old "version" of the girl above.
To those of us who had been Witnesses during the 1975 period, most of us probably thought it refreshing that there was no longer a specific set of years being pointed to any more, and we seemed "safe" from date-setting. But even young children picked up on the idea that all this "suffering" for the sake of the kingdom was only for a few short years, and there would never be a need to learn how to make a living in this system of things. It really did change their outlook on school and career and marriage and providing for one's family. "Jehovah will provide" became a catchphrase of sisters who assumed that brothers with good jobs would be coming into the truth in time to make good marriage mates if somehow the system lasted long enough for them to need a husband with "means." I dreaded that this kind of attitude would influence my own daughter.
My own experiences with respect to 1975 might be considered sad to outsiders, but I don't look back at them with any remorse. I was baptized in 1967, and was still 15, almost 16, when I quit school in 1973 to begin f-t pioneering. I took to heart the Watchtower's counsel and advice that the system had only a few months after this 1975 period, not years. The commendations for selling houses and pioneering affected my family too. My father didn't believe in the 1975 hype, and even got in trouble (from the D.O.) after a circuit assembly talk, by adding that Jesus' words (about no one knowing the day or the hour) showed how we should also be balanced. That was rather unforgettable, but my father still sold our house and moved us into a rented house in 1974, so that my mother could begin f-t pioneering, too.
My brother started an office-cleaning business in 1974 as many other pioneers had done. Only, he didn't pioneer himself but kept expanding the business with more accounts and ended up providing jobs for about 20 pioneers. He finally sold the business for about $20,000 to a full-time pioneer (in '77).  I'm sure that the number of new businesses across the country called "Pioneer Cleaning Services" shot up considerably in this period. A lot of people probably don't know that "Rug Doctor" was started this way, and my brother was good friends with the Witness founder. Their web site only says that it was started more than 43 years ago (implying before 1977) but it was actually started in 1974/5.
In 1977, my Bethel roommate, my brother, and the daughter of one of the Rug Doctor partners were the only people I knew (at the time) who had been invited to Bethel without any full-time pioneering experience.
They had all involved themselves either in learning computer science or electronics (programmable microprocessor controllers) in my brother's case. So after Bethel, I got a bachelor's degree in computer science. The congregation and the elders were very prejudiced against it, but as long as I kept full-time pioneering during college I got away with it.
Times are a bit different again, and college is definitely no guarantee of a better job. It often brings unnecessary debt and stress. But I never discouraged college for my three children and, as things turned out, I'm currently glad I didn't. But there is still a lot of prejudice against pioneering in most congregations I know.
My kids all had music, orchestra, and choir in high school, and kept their skills up for another few years in college. They would draw the line at national anthems, too, but rarely bowed out of any other songs or performances. So much music is permeated with religious or political foundations anyway that it would be impossible to completely separate from it without getting out of orchestra or choir altogether. I think that most Witnesses compromise and hardly realize it when they participate in American high school music classes especially.