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JW Insider

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  1. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    I used to spend a lot of time in the office of a brother in Writing (F.R.), the same brother who gave the primary part of my wedding talk. He once gave me a copy of a 10-page letter than came from a person who saw himself as the prophet Ezekiel. Because he had responded to this person before, he said further contact from this same person was sent from Correspondence up to his office. Years later, after Bethel, I heard about a person online, where the name might have been something like "watchman" or "e-watchman" who also seemed to step into this "Ezekiel" role. (For a while I thought it F.R.'s correspondent was same person as "watchman," but I'm pretty sure the timing isn't right.) But it reminds me that there is sometimes an informal tracking for such letters, and Kosonen has elsewhere said he has been sending similar letters for the last 12 or 13 years. Such letters are not taken seriously. And when they are associated with "anointed" persons, they might even be taken less seriously. Kosonen pointed out that Bro Herd gave a talk where he mentioned that it's often the "new" anointed persons who are troublemakers in the congregations.
    The issue of mental health, unfortunately, is still touchy. It's not like noticing someone has a limp and asking whether they ever got it checked out. He has referred to his "moody body" in the past and another reference that makes me think that broaching the topic is warranted. I'll probably regret it later, though, because no attempt to diagnose someone should be attempted by non-professionals (me) or from things written online. But Kosonen has left about 12 years worth of material in his audit trail, from an old website (spiritualanswers) to paradisecafe to jehovahs-witness to here, along with a set of youtube videos and links he has liked. He has promoted videos and content from Alex Jones, and others of similar ilk. One could easily get lost in the web of end-time prophecy links (sites/videos/forums) that Kosonen has associated himself with.
    But when I look closely at his points, there are a few of them that several people here would quickly agree with, including Witnesses, non-Witnesses, and ex-Witnesses. But many of his points have gone off into complete fantasy, too, imo. Mixing those issues together will lose any audience even where good points are made. I think the letter reveals a lot more about himself than he realizes he is revealing. And what we say on the www, will stay on the www.
  2. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Tell me about it. My wife texted that to me: “Do you think I look fat?” Of course, I texted back “Noo!” extra ‘o’ for emphasis.
    AI changed it to ‘Moo!”
    Any room for me with your chickens?
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    @Kosonen
    I have followed Asperger's Syndrome very closely. I thought I knew someone who must have had it as a child, but which was only detectable as a mild case when he was older. My wife was a school principal in a very large school, and the need to test for a wide spectrum of disorders was mandatory. If they want to, a lot of people with Asperger's can use their intelligence (with effort) to make up for the social deficits, to the point where they can seem to hide it from others. It is often accompanied by moodiness and even depression, but these could also be "chicken and egg" symptoms of social disappointments. I haven't looked into the variety of treatments, but I would guess you are on the right track if persons you trust have encouraged diagnosis and treatment.
    If Asperger's is an issue, this is a problem that people can live with. As you say, just live your life and do the best you can, use your talents, and certain advantages will make up for deficits. You would be right to learn what you can and not be overly concerned with what other people say you must do.
    Still I would watch the moods carefully, as A.S. can apparently be associated with sleep issues, depression, energy levels, sensitivity to counsel, temper, emotions, etc. Everyone (like me) seems to be always trying to advise, when often the person just needs a sympathetic ear, or wishes to explain their issues, not looking for solutions to problems.
    Anyway, I'm happy to learn that you have looked into things related to your mood and emotions. I'm sure I've said enough or too much already. I'll drop it from my end.
    When I get some time, I'd like to look at those issues you bring up.
     
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Srecko Sostar in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Mental illnesses are also called mental disorders. They are extremely common in the population. Australia and US 1 of 5 live with mental illness, globally 1 of 10. 
     https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/mental-illness    
    https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.shtml
    https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
    List of disorders is long. https://www.verywellmind.com/a-list-of-psychological-disorders-2794776  
    There are nearly 300 mental disorders listed in the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). This is a handbook used by health professionals to help identify and diagnose mental illness. - https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/types-of-mental-illness
    1) Does "free will", as gift from god or as our imagined concept, contribute to this problem, cause it? Always present problem of what we want and wish on one side and what we may, must and should on another.
    2) Is Gospel sort of magnet for "disturbed and imbalanced" people, if we have in mind who, what sort of people Jesus called and expected to follow Him (people who are rejected from society, who "suffered" )?
    3) Does, whether JW's who left WTJWorg are good material to be more imbalanced and have mental issues? Or Organization as complete/ finalized system created individuals who would/will be "lost" without Organization?   
    ......etc.
     
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from b4ucuhear in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Hmm. I fell right into that one. But, of course, I agree that it very easily happens to anyone who tries to go into the "times and seasons" arena, where even angels fear to tread. If persons take themselves too seriously, they will want to be seen as a prophet, in spite of a string of past failures. It's an interesting phenomenon. And yes, I agree that even Barbour, Russell, Rutherford, Woodworth, FWFranz, etc continued to believe in "times and seasons" that were the result of a string of failures. No need to repeat it all here.
    However, in favor of the Governing Body, I would say that they stopped trying to represent themselves as a "prophet." The last time I saw that phrase directly tied to the representatives of "the faithful and discreet slave" was back in 1971 and 1972, and this was undoubtedly part of FWFranz' promotion of his 1975 expectations.
    I have seen much more careful language around dates and a complete lack of predictions among this particular group of men making up the Governing Body. Dates are rarely emphasized at all compared to the 1975 era.
    I think it's a valid concern, for himself and those close to him. I don't think that anyone here has begun looking to the constellation Virgo and a few stray planets for the sign of the woman in Revelation 12, and I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking airplanes to Australia to ride out whatever plagues are left in God's quiver. But he is showing signs that should make all of us feel concern for him, and a desire to help him. This does not mean that the rest of us are all that mentally balanced ourselves. But I think we should all be sensitive to how certain phrases and ideas might reveal problems that might need to be dealt with.
    This might even be the same reason that the GB brings it up. To try to make sure people are aware of mental issues and how they sometimes reveal themselves. And, I think we all know from experience that there really is a correlation between those who claim to be of the anointed (in some congregations) and those in need of mental health assistance. I cringe a bit myself when it is sometimes pointed out just before the Memorial celebration, but this is probably the best time to be reminded, just before your kids or your Bible students decide to go ask Sister Talks-To-Herself-During-Meetings how she knows she is of the anointed.
    There are valid levels of concern about what constitutes "worship" but the Governing Body would likely consider anyone who wants to worship them to be either apostate or mentally ill. It would go against clear counsel by the Governing Body themselves. And the only ones who would obey without question are those who are exaggerating or misinterpreting the Bible's counsel to obey those taking the lead. The GB does not ask people to simply obey without question. Obedience is always in the context of knowing which reminders coming from the GB are repetitions of counsel found in the Bible. Another level of obedience is considered in the context of unknown circumstances ahead when it may be necessary to humbly follow instructions from elders or those in the lead. We won't always be able to understand, or we might even disagree, but we will humbly follow along so that we don't end up creating worse circumstances for everyone. If a coach thinks a certain move is best for a strategic football play, then even if you think you know a better play, you'd best work with the team, or else your own ideas will just ruin the play altogether. It's easy to exaggerate quotes about obedience and think they mean something they don't.
  6. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Hmm. I fell right into that one. But, of course, I agree that it very easily happens to anyone who tries to go into the "times and seasons" arena, where even angels fear to tread. If persons take themselves too seriously, they will want to be seen as a prophet, in spite of a string of past failures. It's an interesting phenomenon. And yes, I agree that even Barbour, Russell, Rutherford, Woodworth, FWFranz, etc continued to believe in "times and seasons" that were the result of a string of failures. No need to repeat it all here.
    However, in favor of the Governing Body, I would say that they stopped trying to represent themselves as a "prophet." The last time I saw that phrase directly tied to the representatives of "the faithful and discreet slave" was back in 1971 and 1972, and this was undoubtedly part of FWFranz' promotion of his 1975 expectations.
    I have seen much more careful language around dates and a complete lack of predictions among this particular group of men making up the Governing Body. Dates are rarely emphasized at all compared to the 1975 era.
    I think it's a valid concern, for himself and those close to him. I don't think that anyone here has begun looking to the constellation Virgo and a few stray planets for the sign of the woman in Revelation 12, and I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking airplanes to Australia to ride out whatever plagues are left in God's quiver. But he is showing signs that should make all of us feel concern for him, and a desire to help him. This does not mean that the rest of us are all that mentally balanced ourselves. But I think we should all be sensitive to how certain phrases and ideas might reveal problems that might need to be dealt with.
    This might even be the same reason that the GB brings it up. To try to make sure people are aware of mental issues and how they sometimes reveal themselves. And, I think we all know from experience that there really is a correlation between those who claim to be of the anointed (in some congregations) and those in need of mental health assistance. I cringe a bit myself when it is sometimes pointed out just before the Memorial celebration, but this is probably the best time to be reminded, just before your kids or your Bible students decide to go ask Sister Talks-To-Herself-During-Meetings how she knows she is of the anointed.
    There are valid levels of concern about what constitutes "worship" but the Governing Body would likely consider anyone who wants to worship them to be either apostate or mentally ill. It would go against clear counsel by the Governing Body themselves. And the only ones who would obey without question are those who are exaggerating or misinterpreting the Bible's counsel to obey those taking the lead. The GB does not ask people to simply obey without question. Obedience is always in the context of knowing which reminders coming from the GB are repetitions of counsel found in the Bible. Another level of obedience is considered in the context of unknown circumstances ahead when it may be necessary to humbly follow instructions from elders or those in the lead. We won't always be able to understand, or we might even disagree, but we will humbly follow along so that we don't end up creating worse circumstances for everyone. If a coach thinks a certain move is best for a strategic football play, then even if you think you know a better play, you'd best work with the team, or else your own ideas will just ruin the play altogether. It's easy to exaggerate quotes about obedience and think they mean something they don't.
  7. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watchtower Pirates?   
    It is very confusing, and I think it may be a work in progress. There would be no need for passwords were it not for people like on this forum, who will not behave and who will ‘zoombomb’ or otherwise cause chaos given the first opportunity. Trolls have got to be among the most odious things on the planet, necessitating layers of security in many organizations because they simply will not behave.
    It drove me nuts, too, at first attempt. At present, so far as I know, you cannot stream the assemblies from the jw app that suggests you can. Again, I think it is a work in progress. Tell her to contact her elders. They will be able to get her in without fuss. Other online meetings are hosted and the host will not let in anyone unrecognized. Easy to set up in advance, however, to avoid problems. I am not sure whether you could do it for her or not. If you told the elders what jerks they were as you departed, and how you run them all down of the WNMF, they might not believe your good intentions now.
    They have to guard against determined opposers, not all of whom are stupid. It is roughly the equivalent of how in times of ban, the brothers are very careful in screening people, since liars come around feigning interest when their real goal is to make it hot for the brothers. In the meantime, the jw.org website is freely open to all, with tons of videos and talks.
    Passwords in general are a nightmare, triggering constant aggravation. It may be one of those situations where it is observed, “If everyone was a Witness, there would be no need for locks—theft would be so rare that most could do without.” Same with passwords, I suspect. They may not be completely unnecessary, because people are people, but probably a 4 digit one across all accounts would serve just fine.
  8. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Maybe that is why I have passed over the mental health angle a time or two to simply say, “Am I on Candid Camera?”  But it is an old show. Youngsters will have no idea what I am talking about.
    Right. Mum’s the word.
  9. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to b4ucuhear in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    "Pointless..." "absurd...bad...pretentious..." "loopy and self-important..." "like opening a door with two broken hinges..." "What if a frog had wings and could fly...some strong personal opinions with no basis in fact." 
    Apparently 4Jah2me is not alone in that observation. Frankly I thought the same myself. 
    Even when there are some points that might merit consideration, I can't imagine how many of these crank letters are sent to the society expecting to be taken seriously. 
    A negative agenda is often accompanied by a myopic view. A view coloured by biased lenses - seeing only from the perspective that fits their agenda. It's not uncommon. That is why people who have a falling out may dismiss a whole decades-long friendship/marriage on one fault - while not considering all the good or the broader picture.  While it is true that Jehovah has disciplined his people in the past and may yet find reason to do so (or at least see to corrections that may need to be made today), the problems JWs experience as an organization are far better explained in terms of what the Bible clearly sets out and tells true Christians to expect. In fact, while reading just a few of the many verses in the Bible, the question could also be asked: Who of our opposers are themselves experiencing the persecution and hatred from the world true Christians are to expect? Again, rather than "discipline from Jehovah," these things are expected/prophesied to happen to true Christians living within the boundaries of Satan's system. 
    1 John 5:19: "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
    Rev. 12:12, 13: "...Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time. Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child."
    John 15:20: "Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you."
    2 Tim. 3:12: "In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted. (13) But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled. (14) You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them..."
    Matt. 5:11: "Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against your for myself sake..."
    Luke 21:12: "But before all these things happen, people will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name. (13) It will result in your giving a witness." 
    Matt. 24:9: "Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name. (10) Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. (11) Many false prophets will arise and mislead many..."
    We all know why JW's are banned and persecuted in Russia and elsewhere. (Hint: it's not because they disagree with you and your personal interpretation). In fact, we know that the Russian "case" was built on outright lies and political corruption with a religious influence. Similar could be said with other persecution you prefer to see as discipline. So here's a suggestion: Why don't all you opposers fight it out between yourselves first, and then present one winner - one Goliath - instead of all the moving targets you usually present. We shouldn't have to fight all your battles and do your thinking for you. That way we don't have to "hopscotch" from one personal/conflicting opinion to another like some crazed "jack-in-the-box." Sure, you may be united in your opposition to JW's, but at least get your stories straight. You guys don't even agree amongst yourselves. 
     
     
  10. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    I had a good friend once tell me, and I realized it might be true, "You are not crazy enough to be put away ... but if you ever got in, they might not let you go!".

  11. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    I used to spend a lot of time in the office of a brother in Writing (F.R.), the same brother who gave the primary part of my wedding talk. He once gave me a copy of a 10-page letter than came from a person who saw himself as the prophet Ezekiel. Because he had responded to this person before, he said further contact from this same person was sent from Correspondence up to his office. Years later, after Bethel, I heard about a person online, where the name might have been something like "watchman" or "e-watchman" who also seemed to step into this "Ezekiel" role. (For a while I thought it F.R.'s correspondent was same person as "watchman," but I'm pretty sure the timing isn't right.) But it reminds me that there is sometimes an informal tracking for such letters, and Kosonen has elsewhere said he has been sending similar letters for the last 12 or 13 years. Such letters are not taken seriously. And when they are associated with "anointed" persons, they might even be taken less seriously. Kosonen pointed out that Bro Herd gave a talk where he mentioned that it's often the "new" anointed persons who are troublemakers in the congregations.
    The issue of mental health, unfortunately, is still touchy. It's not like noticing someone has a limp and asking whether they ever got it checked out. He has referred to his "moody body" in the past and another reference that makes me think that broaching the topic is warranted. I'll probably regret it later, though, because no attempt to diagnose someone should be attempted by non-professionals (me) or from things written online. But Kosonen has left about 12 years worth of material in his audit trail, from an old website (spiritualanswers) to paradisecafe to jehovahs-witness to here, along with a set of youtube videos and links he has liked. He has promoted videos and content from Alex Jones, and others of similar ilk. One could easily get lost in the web of end-time prophecy links (sites/videos/forums) that Kosonen has associated himself with.
    But when I look closely at his points, there are a few of them that several people here would quickly agree with, including Witnesses, non-Witnesses, and ex-Witnesses. But many of his points have gone off into complete fantasy, too, imo. Mixing those issues together will lose any audience even where good points are made. I think the letter reveals a lot more about himself than he realizes he is revealing. And what we say on the www, will stay on the www.
  12. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Jan Kosonen, @Kosonen
    In several places online, you have seen fit to provide your name, your email address, and much of your personal history. But you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. I began to point this out before and you do not appear back away from this history. Instead you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet.
    I began to write a paraphrase of your letter as I think it will have been understood by any responsible person who reads it at the headquarters of the CCJW/WTS. But that started looking like an exercise in parody. And I didn't want you to think I was just trying to make fun of you. I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. I know another person very well who left Bethel in good mental health, but within a few years began to suffer greatly, and began to consider a lot of conspiracies and speculations about various "end-times" scenarios. I see several similarities. I don't wish to spell out these many similarities, but I do feel badly that he doesn't attempt to get the mental health care that he desperately needs. I am not sure if you have sought mental health professionals yourself. I hope that you have.
    In addition, I hope you have also prayed for the kind of spiritual guidance that can help us maintain mental balance. I know that you consider yourself one of the anointed, and are therefore very familiar with the following verses:
    (Romans 8:26, 27) 26 In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings. 27 But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.
    (1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it.
    You show a lot of bravery and boldness in sending your letters as you have. But you also display a lot of haughtiness in a way that makes me think you are likely not always aware of how you come across to other people. This is a common theme among certain kinds of mental health issues. In cases like this, the sound of the haughtiness might sound to you like the necessary boldness to speak as an anointed prophet might. But if one truly has the "spirit" they would understand the need to pray for the ability to put themselves in the place of the other person, the ones you wish to speak to.
    (Philippians 2:1-4) . . .If, then, there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any spiritual fellowship, if any tender affection and compassion, 2 make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind. 3 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.
    (1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) . . .All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person.
    I would hope you are brave and bold enough to allow persons you trust to speak openly to you about this possible health problem. Have you honestly asked anyone if they believe you might have mental health issues? Sometimes, what we won't see for ourselves is clear to others. Paul spoke to Timothy about men whose folly was very plain to all.
    (2 Timothy 3:9, 10) . . .Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance,
    So, I'll ask you more directly: Do you think that you might have mental health issues?
    I hope that you have persons you trust to ask this question about yourself.  If any of us ask enough people around us, I don't think any of us would get a perfect score on this account. But if there is any question at all in the minds of others then it's a very important point to consider, and look into more closely. And I can tell you right now that this question about you is already in the minds of several of us here.
    (Philippians 4:5-7) 5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
    I'll be happy to engage the specifics of the points you made, but I do hope you will respond to these points, too.
  13. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Jan Kosonen, @Kosonen
    In several places online, you have seen fit to provide your name, your email address, and much of your personal history. But you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. I began to point this out before and you do not appear back away from this history. Instead you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet.
    I began to write a paraphrase of your letter as I think it will have been understood by any responsible person who reads it at the headquarters of the CCJW/WTS. But that started looking like an exercise in parody. And I didn't want you to think I was just trying to make fun of you. I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. I know another person very well who left Bethel in good mental health, but within a few years began to suffer greatly, and began to consider a lot of conspiracies and speculations about various "end-times" scenarios. I see several similarities. I don't wish to spell out these many similarities, but I do feel badly that he doesn't attempt to get the mental health care that he desperately needs. I am not sure if you have sought mental health professionals yourself. I hope that you have.
    In addition, I hope you have also prayed for the kind of spiritual guidance that can help us maintain mental balance. I know that you consider yourself one of the anointed, and are therefore very familiar with the following verses:
    (Romans 8:26, 27) 26 In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings. 27 But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.
    (1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it.
    You show a lot of bravery and boldness in sending your letters as you have. But you also display a lot of haughtiness in a way that makes me think you are likely not always aware of how you come across to other people. This is a common theme among certain kinds of mental health issues. In cases like this, the sound of the haughtiness might sound to you like the necessary boldness to speak as an anointed prophet might. But if one truly has the "spirit" they would understand the need to pray for the ability to put themselves in the place of the other person, the ones you wish to speak to.
    (Philippians 2:1-4) . . .If, then, there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any spiritual fellowship, if any tender affection and compassion, 2 make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind. 3 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.
    (1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) . . .All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person.
    I would hope you are brave and bold enough to allow persons you trust to speak openly to you about this possible health problem. Have you honestly asked anyone if they believe you might have mental health issues? Sometimes, what we won't see for ourselves is clear to others. Paul spoke to Timothy about men whose folly was very plain to all.
    (2 Timothy 3:9, 10) . . .Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance,
    So, I'll ask you more directly: Do you think that you might have mental health issues?
    I hope that you have persons you trust to ask this question about yourself.  If any of us ask enough people around us, I don't think any of us would get a perfect score on this account. But if there is any question at all in the minds of others then it's a very important point to consider, and look into more closely. And I can tell you right now that this question about you is already in the minds of several of us here.
    (Philippians 4:5-7) 5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
    I'll be happy to engage the specifics of the points you made, but I do hope you will respond to these points, too.
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from b4ucuhear in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Jan Kosonen, @Kosonen
    In several places online, you have seen fit to provide your name, your email address, and much of your personal history. But you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. I began to point this out before and you do not appear back away from this history. Instead you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet.
    I began to write a paraphrase of your letter as I think it will have been understood by any responsible person who reads it at the headquarters of the CCJW/WTS. But that started looking like an exercise in parody. And I didn't want you to think I was just trying to make fun of you. I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. I know another person very well who left Bethel in good mental health, but within a few years began to suffer greatly, and began to consider a lot of conspiracies and speculations about various "end-times" scenarios. I see several similarities. I don't wish to spell out these many similarities, but I do feel badly that he doesn't attempt to get the mental health care that he desperately needs. I am not sure if you have sought mental health professionals yourself. I hope that you have.
    In addition, I hope you have also prayed for the kind of spiritual guidance that can help us maintain mental balance. I know that you consider yourself one of the anointed, and are therefore very familiar with the following verses:
    (Romans 8:26, 27) 26 In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings. 27 But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.
    (1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it.
    You show a lot of bravery and boldness in sending your letters as you have. But you also display a lot of haughtiness in a way that makes me think you are likely not always aware of how you come across to other people. This is a common theme among certain kinds of mental health issues. In cases like this, the sound of the haughtiness might sound to you like the necessary boldness to speak as an anointed prophet might. But if one truly has the "spirit" they would understand the need to pray for the ability to put themselves in the place of the other person, the ones you wish to speak to.
    (Philippians 2:1-4) . . .If, then, there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any spiritual fellowship, if any tender affection and compassion, 2 make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind. 3 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.
    (1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) . . .All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person.
    I would hope you are brave and bold enough to allow persons you trust to speak openly to you about this possible health problem. Have you honestly asked anyone if they believe you might have mental health issues? Sometimes, what we won't see for ourselves is clear to others. Paul spoke to Timothy about men whose folly was very plain to all.
    (2 Timothy 3:9, 10) . . .Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance,
    So, I'll ask you more directly: Do you think that you might have mental health issues?
    I hope that you have persons you trust to ask this question about yourself.  If any of us ask enough people around us, I don't think any of us would get a perfect score on this account. But if there is any question at all in the minds of others then it's a very important point to consider, and look into more closely. And I can tell you right now that this question about you is already in the minds of several of us here.
    (Philippians 4:5-7) 5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
    I'll be happy to engage the specifics of the points you made, but I do hope you will respond to these points, too.
  15. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side   
    Jan Kosonen, @Kosonen
    In several places online, you have seen fit to provide your name, your email address, and much of your personal history. But you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. I began to point this out before and you do not appear back away from this history. Instead you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet.
    I began to write a paraphrase of your letter as I think it will have been understood by any responsible person who reads it at the headquarters of the CCJW/WTS. But that started looking like an exercise in parody. And I didn't want you to think I was just trying to make fun of you. I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. I know another person very well who left Bethel in good mental health, but within a few years began to suffer greatly, and began to consider a lot of conspiracies and speculations about various "end-times" scenarios. I see several similarities. I don't wish to spell out these many similarities, but I do feel badly that he doesn't attempt to get the mental health care that he desperately needs. I am not sure if you have sought mental health professionals yourself. I hope that you have.
    In addition, I hope you have also prayed for the kind of spiritual guidance that can help us maintain mental balance. I know that you consider yourself one of the anointed, and are therefore very familiar with the following verses:
    (Romans 8:26, 27) 26 In like manner, the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the problem is that we do not know what we should pray for as we need to, but the spirit itself pleads for us with unuttered groanings. 27 But the one who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.
    (1 Corinthians 10:12, 13) . . .Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. 13 No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it.
    You show a lot of bravery and boldness in sending your letters as you have. But you also display a lot of haughtiness in a way that makes me think you are likely not always aware of how you come across to other people. This is a common theme among certain kinds of mental health issues. In cases like this, the sound of the haughtiness might sound to you like the necessary boldness to speak as an anointed prophet might. But if one truly has the "spirit" they would understand the need to pray for the ability to put themselves in the place of the other person, the ones you wish to speak to.
    (Philippians 2:1-4) . . .If, then, there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any spiritual fellowship, if any tender affection and compassion, 2 make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind. 3 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.
    (1 Corinthians 10:23, 24) . . .All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful; but not all things build up. 24 Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person.
    I would hope you are brave and bold enough to allow persons you trust to speak openly to you about this possible health problem. Have you honestly asked anyone if they believe you might have mental health issues? Sometimes, what we won't see for ourselves is clear to others. Paul spoke to Timothy about men whose folly was very plain to all.
    (2 Timothy 3:9, 10) . . .Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men. 10 But you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance,
    So, I'll ask you more directly: Do you think that you might have mental health issues?
    I hope that you have persons you trust to ask this question about yourself.  If any of us ask enough people around us, I don't think any of us would get a perfect score on this account. But if there is any question at all in the minds of others then it's a very important point to consider, and look into more closely. And I can tell you right now that this question about you is already in the minds of several of us here.
    (Philippians 4:5-7) 5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
    I'll be happy to engage the specifics of the points you made, but I do hope you will respond to these points, too.
  16. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Three Months Passed After the Beating of Five Believers in the Orenburg Colony. What Is Happening to Them Now?   
    Columnist Andrew Sorokowski wrote at the time of the ban: Why would a country of 144 million trash its international reputation for the sake of harassing a harmless 175 thousand? 
    Yet Russia has done so, painting itself before all as though a land of thugs
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Isabella in In the Spring of 1945, Russia Freed Jehovah's Witnesses From Concentration Camps. Why, 75 Years Later, Are They Again in Prisons?   
    More than 4,000 prisoners of concentration camps wore purple triangles on their chests. Because of their faith, they refused to salute Hitler, pick up weapons and fight. On the 75th anniversary of the liberation, the peace-loving Jehovah’s Witnesses are again in prison, this time in Russia. How did the liberating country become an oppressor?
    https://jw-russia.org/en/news/2020/05/3.html

  18. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in THE CHOSEN   
    https://studios.vidangel.com/the-chosen
    I don't watch television and I'm quite choosy as to films that I will watch, but when it comes to the 'Life of Christ Jesus' I am quite keen to watch films and programmes of interest. 
    I have just finished watching Series One of ' The Chosen'. It is about the Life of Jesus from before He made Himself know to the 'public at large'. 
    Of course it uses a lot of 'artistic licence' and lots of things in it are not facts, but I find it helpful to see the type of lifestyle the Jews lived and to see Jesus and His followers as real people. 
    I don't know if your 'Leaders' will tell you not to watch it, but i found it relaxing and a pleasure to watch. I particularly liked Nicodemus and his meeting with Jesus, the questions asked and answered. 
    I don't think any of you would find it offensive but of course you will note many faults in it, as i did. However, in my opinion it is far better to watch this than watch most other films of our time. 
     
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Arauna in Three Months Passed After the Beating of Five Believers in the Orenburg Colony. What Is Happening to Them Now?   
    Said a prayer for them..... to stay strong and set an example to their prison guards They look like lovely brothers.
  20. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in China’s “bat woman” Zhengli SHI, seeking asylum in US embassy in France. CCP likely done if this is true.   
    I'm sure that there were other better places to discuss the timeline issue. But this article just caught my attention:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/french-hospital-discovers-covid-19-case-december-retested
    French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December
    Man found to have had virus a month before government confirmed first cases
    A French hospital that retested old samples from pneumonia patients has discovered that it treated a man with the coronavirus as early as 27 December, nearly a month before the French government confirmed its first cases.
    Dr Yves Cohen, head of resuscitation at the Avicenne and Jean Verdier hospitals in the northern suburbs of Paris, told BFM TV that scientists had retested samples from 24 patients treated in December and January who tested negative for flu.
    “Of the 24, we had one who was positive for Covid-19 on 27 December,” he told the news channel on Sunday.
    ...
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in China’s “bat woman” Zhengli SHI, seeking asylum in US embassy in France. CCP likely done if this is true.   
    I haven't taken the time to study the reports supposedly evidencing a laboratory outbreak in Wuhan. But I have read enough to know that there are literally hundreds of reports out there that overstate the evidence for all kinds of claims. I can also see that some sites just completely make things up.
    The virus has affected so many people personally that it would be great to have some really good information, and effective plans of action, in case this or something similar happens again. I'm sure there is already a lot of good data from many sources about how this crisis should have been handled differently. Some places obviously handled it better than others. But who knows how well this data will be used. Even data is a weaponized these days.
    So I'm not trying to fully agree or fully disagree with anyone in particular. Like most people I am suspicious of the possible weaponization of the virus. And naturally it was suspicious that it started in Wuhan which contains a P4 (BS4) lab, and the possibility of an escape from such a lab. Looking up a few things, I wanted to say just a bit about them so I could come back later and check the references and links when I get some more time.
    To start I read what @César Chávez wrote above. I looked up a phrase or two to see where some of the information could have come from.
    https://gnews.org/106576/
    China announced that Major General Chen Wei, China’s chief biochemical weapon defense expert, now stations in Wuhan to take over the Wuhan P4 Lab linked to China’s covert biological weapons program.
    Wuhan P4 Lab has drawn world attention since the outbreak of Wuhan novel coronavirus. Some wondered if the virus was ‘leaked’ from the lab, which is located at the epicenter.
    Zhengli Shi, a renowned researcher working at the P4 lab, co-authored a controversial paper in 2015 to create a new virus by combining a coronavirus found in Chinese horseshoe bats with another that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice.
    Other articles on that page were of the Steve Bannon propaganda variety. (Bannon has been attacking China regularly for years and even owns media outlets that are used specifically for this purpose.) I was already thinking about this when I scrolled down further and his picture pops up in one of the articles. By Bannon-like I refer to the idea that statements are made that just directly tie anything negative to the CCP without evidence of any kind. Like: 
    Miles Guo: CCP ordered Guo Deyin to create Wuhan coronavirus
    Guo Deyin, a prominent Chinese scientist, is responsible for creating Wuhan coronavirus under the order of the Chinese Communist Party.
    These tend to be based on empty claims that might only be claimed by the person making it up, or sometimes just quote a "citizen" who evidently made it up, and provides zero evidence. The claim will often be outlandish, but with specifics so that it looks believable. After linking and quoting the nature.com article about the findings of Zheng-Li Shi, we immediately see (in the next line) the part about a potential scapegoat:
    It remains to be seen whether the Chinese government will find a low-level scapegoat for the “leak” of the virus.
    According to Miles Guo, the Wuhan coronavirus was created by the Chinese Communist Party and spread in Wuhan on purpose under the order of Chinese Vice President Wang Qishan.
    . . .
    I hope the wisdom of the people around the world can curb the spread of evilness coming from Pandora’s box, destroy the CCP as the embodiment of the devil and stop this virus from killing the Americans and people around the world.
    This was back in early February, and you can already see how this "citizen" (Miles Guo) with no evidence is creating a possible future story that will involve Zheng-Li Shi as a potential scapegoat, and how this will be discussed in terms of bringing down the CCP. It's really outrageous to say that the vice president of China wanted it spread in Wuhan to kill Americans. It reminds one of pre-CCP (1938) flooding of the Yangtze River by Chiang Kai-shek, killing his own people to slow down the Japanese invasion. (Thanks @James Thomas Rook Jr. for that one.)
    In the midst of all the reports, there are constant contradictions too, so it might take years to see who is lying on purpose, who is lying because of a strong bias, who is merely spreading lies that they mostly believe because of a strong bias, or who is spreading falsehoods because they just don't know any better.
    Even here, https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/03/how-counter-chinas-covid-19-disinformation-campaign/164188/ which, although virulently anti-Chinese, makes some statements that admit a lot of exculpatory evidence which would defend the Chinese. The main point of the article is how the US can "take back the narrative" to keep China from ending up looking good over all this.
    I like to find hints like this because if a source hates to admit something "good" about China, but then provides evidence like that, this evidence must have seemed incontrovertible to the reporters at the time. It's like if Osama bin Laden said, "Well I hate America, but I have to admit, Chicago makes some good pizza." I think this would be evidence that he actually did like Chicago pizza.
    (These days you also have to be careful with sites that normally support the US governmental policy especially from within the US, because they will often contradict themselves from positions they took under Obama just because they don't like Trump. The same thing will happen of those who criticized Obama, but love the exact same same policies under Trump.)
    The article also confirms some of the problems with US handling of various viruses. This tends to balance out some of rhetoric about safety issues in Wuhan's P4 lab. And by the way, the US has about 13 of these P4 labs, and many more P3 labs. The Wuhan lab is about 10 miles from Wuhan, a city of 10 million or so. That reminded me that NYC is even closer to NJ.
    Here are some examples that the Defense One article admits are at least partially true, even if not directly related to the first outbreaks:
    In August 2019, the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick, a Level-4 Biosafety Laboratory capable of handling dangerous infectious diseases such as Ebola, was shut down when it failed to pass a safety inspection by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or CDC. 
    Several months later, the CDC released an unrelated report on teen vaping and severe respiratory infections, citing a total of 805 hospitalizations due to lung injuries and 12 deaths with a median age of 23.
    During that same month, the U.S. Department of Defense sent 280 of the top athletes in the U.S. Armed Services to China to participate in the Military World Games. Five athletes suffered from the same illness and were hospitalized at Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital. Allegedly, one of these patients, diagnosed with and treated for malaria, is supposed to be the “patient zero” of the COVID-19 outbreak, the epicenter of which appears to stem from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market. 
    ...
    The U.S. has not done itself any favors in the global competition over narratives.
    In the absence of a definitive patient zero for COVID-19, prominent political leaders, journalists, and media personalities have resorted to spreading conspiracy theories. They have framed the outbreak as “foreign” or “Chinese”, suggesting in some cases that it stemmed from a biological weapons lab in China. Such claims appear to be bolstered by conspiracy websites and unsubstantiated quotes.
    . . . However, there are obvious problems with any bioweapons-related conspiracies for COVID-19.
    Setting off a global pandemic that will cripple the world economy and lead to millions of fatalities is a really terrible strategy for any country. Even if bioweapons were attractive to some country, this highly-transmissible and nearly impossible to control virus would be a least-ideal candidate.
    The U.S. developed biological weapons during World War II but never used them due to their perceived liabilities on the battlefield—the fear that once a contagious disease was unleashed, it could not be controlled and could backfire.
    . . .
    Conspiracy theories about the source of disease outbreaks gain significant traction because of the dual-use nature of biodefense research. Disinformation campaigns exploit a very fine line that exists between a biodefense program and an offensive biological weapons program. 
    Under biodefense programs, countries like the U.S. develop diagnostic tools, manufacture personal protective gear, stand up highly secure labs to contain dangerous pathogens, and produce vaccines and other medical countermeasures to protect people from the scourge of disease. All these same capabilities can be leveraged to support a covert offensive bioweapons program. 
    Unfortunately, the location of U.S. biodefense programs at former sites of its past bioweapons program, e.g. Fort Detrick, help to fuel disinformation.
    . . . While the COVID-19 as bioweapon narrative is patently false, it offers a good reminder that a bioweapon attack can be disguised as a naturally occurring outbreak with a strong disinformation campaign to deceive the public.
    Anyway, I've already quoted too much and am only half-way through the article. It also admits just how unlikely it is that this got out of the Wuhan lab. People make a lot out of "bat woman" and even the prejudice against bats as evil-looking. But for those who study coronaviruses even in the USA, that's just where you look.  Just like "swine flu" could be found in pigs. (Which reminds me that viruses have started in the US before, and one "patient zero" for other dangerous viruses have been traced to soldiers in USA-located army bases. I recall a few years ago what seemed like a scramble to find a "patient zero" for swine flu outside the United States, and they found a five year boy in Mexico from a town where 40 people or so got the flu, but all the others had a regular flu except for this boy. They made him famous, and I think they even put up a statue of him (although he was a healthy recovering survivor). But then someone pointed out (his mother) that a US corporation, Smithfield Foods, ran one of the largest pig farms in his village. https://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/swine.flu/index.html
    "Patient zero" of the Hantavirus turned out to be some United Nations forces in Korea in the 1950's. https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/hantavirus-man-dead-china-symptoms-coronavirus-yunnan-shandong-1659186-2020-03-24
    One of the most interesting articles that is a bit conspiratorial but sounds reasonably balanced is here:
    https://www.organicconsumers.org/blog/murder-most-foul-perps-behind-covid-19
    I was surprised to see there in that article that Dr. Fauci's organization had given $3,000,000 to the Wuhan lab for coronavirus research. I didn't believe it so I checked all the links and discovered that this had already been news I had missed:
    https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741
    But back to the "murder most foul" article, it discounts the "bat in the Wuhan market" theory just as strongly as the Defense One article discredits the "escape from a Wuhan lab" theory.
    Almost too incredible to believe, funding for the reckless germ war experiments in Wuhan have included more than $3 million from Dr. Anthony Fauci’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a division of the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), with apparent collaboration, according to Boyle, from scientists at the universities of North Carolina, Wisconsin, Harvard and other institutions.
    In 2014, the Obama White House Office of Science and Technology Policy put a hold or “funding pause” on “gain of function” experimentation on dangerous viruses in U.S. labs due to “biosafety and biosecurity risks.”
    Yet experimentation apparently continued uninterrupted (with U.S. funding) in China at the Wuhan lab. Then in 2017, the Trump Administration reversed this “funding pause,” essentially allowing illegal germ warfare research to continue.
    Longtime anti-GMO activists at GM Watch in the UK recently published an article entitled “COVID-19 Could Be a Wake-Up Call for Biosafety.” The article explains how, below the public radar, secretive and reckless research on genetically engineering and weaponizing coronaviruses has been going on for decades:
    “Stuart Newman, professor of cell biology and anatomy at New York Medical College in Valhalla, New York, editor-in-chief of the journal Biological Theory, and co-author of Biotech Juggernaut, adds crucial historical context that shows exploring whether COVID-19 could have been genetically engineered should not be dismissed as a subject fit only for conspiracy theorists.
    “[Newman] points out that the genetic engineering of coronaviruses has been going on for a long time. According to Newman, ‘Even most biologists are not aware that virologists have been experimentally recombining and genetically modifying coronaviruses for more than a decade to study their mechanisms of pathogenicity.’ Indeed, Newman points to papers on engineering coronaviruses that go back a full 20 years.” 
    Dr. Peter Breggin points out that in 2015, researchers from the U.S. and China's Wuhan Institute of Virology collaborated to transform an animal coronavirus into one that can attack humans. Breggin’s provocative essay includes a direct link to the original study  which was published in the British journal, Nature.
    Recent investigative reporting, including an explosive April 14 Washington Post article by Josh Rogin, followed by more muted coverage by CBS News, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and others, have alerted millions of people to the fact that the official Chinese/Big Pharma/WHO/NIH “bat in the market” story about the origins of COVID-19 may no longer be credible.
    Lots more links and quotes. I also thought it was prudent to snag the articles on SARS, Swine Flu, MERS, etc, from Wikipedia, back in late February because these articles always get highly edited when political ideologies meet science and data. There is even a such thing as medical ideologies, too.
  22. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Arauna in Whatever happened to Watchtower Farms?   
    That makes much more sense. Thanks for pointing this out. I saw Lansing when I scanned the news article and it confused me.
    By the way, my favorite member of the Governing Body, hands down, was Brother John Booth. He was just the most personable brother and no one would have ever guessed he was on the Governing Body if they hadn't been told. In fact, he even skipped his rotation at Bethel's morning worship. Turns out he had donated the original Gilead property.
  23. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Arauna in Whatever happened to Watchtower Farms?   
    I was there a couple of years ago with my parents. Everything was winding down so that there was a huge lobby room but only one person taking in persons for tours. And we were the only tour for several hours. The area is beautiful, and they keep the fields well kept but without the livestock that was once plentiful. And much less planting/harvesting, except on "personal plots" nothing field-sized anymore. As JTR implied, they have moved away from handling their own meat products and nearly stopped all planting compared to the years when it fed the Bethel families in NY. Today it's a printing and binding operation, mostly for the Bibles and songbooks, and some specialty items.There is a small shop where they restore very old books and Bibles that are bought or donated to the Bethel libraries, and displays.
    (Also there are some very nice historical displays of books behind glass, and a very long painted wall mural that covers the history of the Watchtower factories from early days to today.)
    The only persons we really got to talk to were a couple of very old brothers who had been sent here to retire. Even before Covid there was almost no contact any more with the other Bethels in NY (Patterson, Tuxedo, Brooklyn*) except for a few brothers who drive trucks. "Visits" from the GB are almost exclusively by video. We had a friend there who invited us to lunch, but it was just a cafeteria/buffet style that was NOTHING like the food of the "old days" and I don't think hardly any of it was grown locally. (Nothing is grown on the Farm itself in any "industrial scale" just a few hobbyists growing tomatoes, basil, etc., to share with the Farm family.)
    *Brooklyn was down to just a couple of sales offices at the time.
    Kingdom Halls have been sold recently for 3 million, and that's the price of all the acreage at Kingdom Farms, for sale? So I don't think there is any hurry. Perhaps someone could buy it to put on a Woodstock II.
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Overlooked by the Religion News Service—How Can That Be?   
    According to Jesus' words, we are being judged by the inclinations of our heart. 
    I am happy that both God and Christ are merciful and that whomever is judging me knows more about me than i know about myself. 
  25. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Whatever happened to Watchtower Farms?   
    Book ‘The Righteous Brothers’
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