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JW Insider

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  1. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Joe Derrick in Meetings canceled in Sweden   
    Grazie! 🙂
     
  2. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Meetings canceled in Sweden   
    And will be anxiously looking forward to it.
    The comment you are responding to included the idea of a "soft start to the liquidation of the WT organization." That reminded me of a rumor, surely started by ex-JWs, that the idea behind JW Broadcasting was to ultimately turn the meetings into a video broadcast from HQ. All meetings at the Hall would become more and more made up of videos until finally they were 100% videos. This would supposedly result in HQ turning into little more than a place where the videos were made. Of course, conspiratorialists would say that this could result in "association through connectivity" and the result would be selling off of most HQ buildings, maybe even the Halls, too.
    Instead, we have a ready-made solution to these kinds of medical emergencies.
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    Outside of that one sentence from the 1999 article, there is absolutely no indication that a Witness can cast a vote in a political election. But even the above sentence does not actually say that a Witness can conscientiously vote in a political election. It could be saying no more than the 1950 article was saying when it used similar words.
    The above quoted sentence might only be explaining why Jehovah's Witnesses will consistently make the same conscientious decision as to why they will not personally vote even if their conscience allowed them to go into the voting booth. And that explanation includes the idea that their decision is based on a Bible-trained conscience. [Note that all the Scriptures in the article showed why a Witness would NOT vote]. The rest of the explanation is that the Witness has an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. [Curiously, Romans 13:1 was used in the original 1950 article to include a reason why Witnesses would not vote, based on the idea that Romans 13:1 cannot refer to the State.] Of course, this older view of the "superior authorities" could provide an argument that the 1999 article needed an update that therefore could change the position on the conscience and political voting:
    Here's the relevant portion of the original 1950 article:
    *** w50 11/15 pp. 444-447 pars. 18-28 Subjection to the Higher Powers ***
    18 It cannot be said of the other political powers and authorities of this world that they were types of Christ as God’s Chief Servant and that therefore God gave such political powers their authority. ...
    19 The political powers of this world are, therefore, not the “superior authorities” to whom Christian souls are to be subject in every demand they make. ...
    20 ...” (Gal. 6:16) So the Jewish Sánhedrin was no longer a governing body among God’s true people, but was an alien governmental body now. ...
    21 In view of not recognizing worldly political powers as the “superior authorities” ordained by God, but recognizing only God and Jesus Christ to be such now, the Christian witnesses conscientiously refrain from taking part in the politics of this world, yes, even from voting. ...
    22 In some countries today the legislature wants to make all the adult citizens responsible for the government. To enforce the democratic way upon them they are required by law to vote in the national elections. Under such circumstances what are Christians to do, since they are under divine command to keep themselves unspotted from this world? By dedicating themselves wholly to God through Christ they have vowed their unswerving allegiance to the kingdom of God, and they cannot divide their allegiance. So how are they now to proceed? Can they register as qualified voters? Yes. The apostle Paul held onto his Roman citizenship and fought for its rights, even appealing to Caesar in defending his right to preach the gospel. In lands where military conscription is in force Jehovah’s witnesses register the same as all others within the age limits, and they write down their relationship to the matter. They remember how Joseph and Mary complied with Caesar’s decree and traveled to Bethlehem-Judah in order to be registered at their home town. (Luke 2:1-5, NW) But it is when these ministers of Jehovah’s Word are called up for induction into the army that then they present themselves and take their stand according to God’s Word and pay to him what belongs to him. Likewise where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote. After they have registered and when election day comes, they can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith.
    23 It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot. They must act in accord with their conscience as enlightened by the study of God’s Word. In lands where voting is not compulsory, the ministers of Jehovah’s Word remember that his people are theocratically organized. According to the divine law under which they are organized the popular vote of the majority does not put servants in office, but all appointments in the theocratic organization are from God and through those whom he puts in authority in his organization. Even in his visible organization the individual members of the congregation do not vote democratically and put qualified men into positions of overseers and ministerial servants by majority vote. No, but the appointments to all official positions of service are made by the spirit of God and through the governing body according to the Scriptural requirements. Even the governing body which make the appointments are under instructions from the “superior authorities”, God and his Christ. To them it is written: “Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others; preserve yourself pure.” (1 Tim. 3:1-13 and 5:22, NW) So the ministers of Jehovah’s Word do not possess the vote within his organization. As for the governing body, it does not lay its hands hastily upon a consecrated person, lest it should become responsible for his sins in office due to a hasty appointment of an undependable, unqualified person.
    24 Since they do not exercise the popular vote to put even consecrated servants into office even within the theocratic organization, they consider it improper to exercise the democratic vote by which unconsecrated persons are put into worldly political offices. They do not choose to share in the responsibility for the sins of such worldlings in governmental offices. They want to preserve themselves pure from this world. They abide by God’s appointments through his theocratic organization, and they accept his appointment of Jesus Christ to the kingship of the righteous new world.
    THE AUTHORITIES ORDAINED BY GOD
    25 Paul was a member of the governing body of the congregation of the first century. He gives the reason for being in subjection to the superior authorities, saying: “The existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.” (Rom. 13:1, NW) How could this be true of worldly political governments? There those in official positions are put in by popular vote, by machine party-politics, by dictatorial seizure of power, by executive appointment, by hereditary law of a dynasty, by legislative action or parliamentary appointment. God is not manipulating worldly politics like a political boss. It is only within his theocratic organization that the existing authorities stand placed in various positions with relationship to one another by God....
    27 Rightfully Jehovah God has reserved for himself the position of Supreme One of the “superior authorities”. He shares that position with no one else, trinitarians to the contrary. Whom, then, has he placed next highest with relation to himself? Jesus Christ, who proved his loyalty to his heavenly Father to a violent death in the midst of Satan’s hostile world. ..
     
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in Meetings canceled in Sweden   
    And will be anxiously looking forward to it.
    The comment you are responding to included the idea of a "soft start to the liquidation of the WT organization." That reminded me of a rumor, surely started by ex-JWs, that the idea behind JW Broadcasting was to ultimately turn the meetings into a video broadcast from HQ. All meetings at the Hall would become more and more made up of videos until finally they were 100% videos. This would supposedly result in HQ turning into little more than a place where the videos were made. Of course, conspiratorialists would say that this could result in "association through connectivity" and the result would be selling off of most HQ buildings, maybe even the Halls, too.
    Instead, we have a ready-made solution to these kinds of medical emergencies.
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Melinda Mills in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    This was taken for granted in the answers above - that they personally will not vote. But going into the polling station is another matter.  And no one but God and the superior authorities knows what he has done in the booth.  More reason for updates and further directives if this is a problem for overseers, and validating why Bro Rook wants to see something more detailed written.
  6. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in Meetings canceled in Sweden   
    Ummmm.......no.
    The congregations are only following the recommendations or orders from secular authorities who have good reasons for giving these orders for the health and safety of its citizens. I can't understand why anyone would think that JWs are somehow going to think it does not apply to them??
    As soon as the authorities say it's ok to gather again, we will resume the meetings. It's not rocket science....
     
  7. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Meetings canceled in Sweden   
    The situation is not good earth wide. 
  8. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    Outside of that one sentence from the 1999 article, there is absolutely no indication that a Witness can cast a vote in a political election. But even the above sentence does not actually say that a Witness can conscientiously vote in a political election. It could be saying no more than the 1950 article was saying when it used similar words.
    The above quoted sentence might only be explaining why Jehovah's Witnesses will consistently make the same conscientious decision as to why they will not personally vote even if their conscience allowed them to go into the voting booth. And that explanation includes the idea that their decision is based on a Bible-trained conscience. [Note that all the Scriptures in the article showed why a Witness would NOT vote]. The rest of the explanation is that the Witness has an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. [Curiously, Romans 13:1 was used in the original 1950 article to include a reason why Witnesses would not vote, based on the idea that Romans 13:1 cannot refer to the State.] Of course, this older view of the "superior authorities" could provide an argument that the 1999 article needed an update that therefore could change the position on the conscience and political voting:
    Here's the relevant portion of the original 1950 article:
    *** w50 11/15 pp. 444-447 pars. 18-28 Subjection to the Higher Powers ***
    18 It cannot be said of the other political powers and authorities of this world that they were types of Christ as God’s Chief Servant and that therefore God gave such political powers their authority. ...
    19 The political powers of this world are, therefore, not the “superior authorities” to whom Christian souls are to be subject in every demand they make. ...
    20 ...” (Gal. 6:16) So the Jewish Sánhedrin was no longer a governing body among God’s true people, but was an alien governmental body now. ...
    21 In view of not recognizing worldly political powers as the “superior authorities” ordained by God, but recognizing only God and Jesus Christ to be such now, the Christian witnesses conscientiously refrain from taking part in the politics of this world, yes, even from voting. ...
    22 In some countries today the legislature wants to make all the adult citizens responsible for the government. To enforce the democratic way upon them they are required by law to vote in the national elections. Under such circumstances what are Christians to do, since they are under divine command to keep themselves unspotted from this world? By dedicating themselves wholly to God through Christ they have vowed their unswerving allegiance to the kingdom of God, and they cannot divide their allegiance. So how are they now to proceed? Can they register as qualified voters? Yes. The apostle Paul held onto his Roman citizenship and fought for its rights, even appealing to Caesar in defending his right to preach the gospel. In lands where military conscription is in force Jehovah’s witnesses register the same as all others within the age limits, and they write down their relationship to the matter. They remember how Joseph and Mary complied with Caesar’s decree and traveled to Bethlehem-Judah in order to be registered at their home town. (Luke 2:1-5, NW) But it is when these ministers of Jehovah’s Word are called up for induction into the army that then they present themselves and take their stand according to God’s Word and pay to him what belongs to him. Likewise where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote. After they have registered and when election day comes, they can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith.
    23 It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot. They must act in accord with their conscience as enlightened by the study of God’s Word. In lands where voting is not compulsory, the ministers of Jehovah’s Word remember that his people are theocratically organized. According to the divine law under which they are organized the popular vote of the majority does not put servants in office, but all appointments in the theocratic organization are from God and through those whom he puts in authority in his organization. Even in his visible organization the individual members of the congregation do not vote democratically and put qualified men into positions of overseers and ministerial servants by majority vote. No, but the appointments to all official positions of service are made by the spirit of God and through the governing body according to the Scriptural requirements. Even the governing body which make the appointments are under instructions from the “superior authorities”, God and his Christ. To them it is written: “Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others; preserve yourself pure.” (1 Tim. 3:1-13 and 5:22, NW) So the ministers of Jehovah’s Word do not possess the vote within his organization. As for the governing body, it does not lay its hands hastily upon a consecrated person, lest it should become responsible for his sins in office due to a hasty appointment of an undependable, unqualified person.
    24 Since they do not exercise the popular vote to put even consecrated servants into office even within the theocratic organization, they consider it improper to exercise the democratic vote by which unconsecrated persons are put into worldly political offices. They do not choose to share in the responsibility for the sins of such worldlings in governmental offices. They want to preserve themselves pure from this world. They abide by God’s appointments through his theocratic organization, and they accept his appointment of Jesus Christ to the kingship of the righteous new world.
    THE AUTHORITIES ORDAINED BY GOD
    25 Paul was a member of the governing body of the congregation of the first century. He gives the reason for being in subjection to the superior authorities, saying: “The existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.” (Rom. 13:1, NW) How could this be true of worldly political governments? There those in official positions are put in by popular vote, by machine party-politics, by dictatorial seizure of power, by executive appointment, by hereditary law of a dynasty, by legislative action or parliamentary appointment. God is not manipulating worldly politics like a political boss. It is only within his theocratic organization that the existing authorities stand placed in various positions with relationship to one another by God....
    27 Rightfully Jehovah God has reserved for himself the position of Supreme One of the “superior authorities”. He shares that position with no one else, trinitarians to the contrary. Whom, then, has he placed next highest with relation to himself? Jesus Christ, who proved his loyalty to his heavenly Father to a violent death in the midst of Satan’s hostile world. ..
     
  9. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Melinda Mills in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    "There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12.
    Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: “You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me.”—Psalm 31:3." -  1999 Watchtower quoted above.
    Clearly it is a matter between a person and God, and it is acknowledged in this article.  Probably the reason for no answer.  Therefore whoever is trying to judge or sanction a person for using his conscience is putting themselves before God and is being Pharisaical.
    So don't belabour the point nor don't expect anyone to, just leave it. Most people, as usual, won't want to say anything about it anyway. You know that already.
     
     
  10. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Before the truth sets you free, it tends to make you miserable. - Richard Rohr...   
    I thought it was only supposed to be about "Boy George" so I avoided it. 😉
  11. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    The blockhead
    Now you’re talking
  12. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    I asked my father about this, because he has been to 'elder's school' in the last few months. I didn't ask how recently it came up, but he implied that it came up at a previous elder's school a couple of years prior. I don't know if he was quoting an instructor, but it sounded like he might have been trying to. His answer went something like this, not an exact quote:
    Obviously, we don't want to create any documentation that makes it look like we are interfering with a person's right to participate in political activities. In some countries, that can be very dangerous. But if a person is so willing to get so involved with the world, then it surely means that he is not taking Jehovah's counsel to heart in OTHER areas, too. He will need counsel and discipline and we [elders] need to be alert to the OVERALL spiritual welfare of the brother.
    He wouldn't say if he thinks this position might result in trying to replace the "discipline" for political involvement with "discipline" for other areas of conduct or belief. Actually, he said he didn't think so, but that it just meant that political involvement is a symptom of spiritual weakness.
  13. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Kosonen in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    @JW Insider Interesting comments. I just remembered a such scripture in Proverbs 26:4  Do not answer the stupid one according to his foolishness, So that you do not put yourself on his level. 5  Answer the stupid one according to his foolishness, So that he does not think he is wise.
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Kosonen in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    Yes, exactly. That scripture in Proverbs 26:4,5 directly popped in my mind as an example of that.
  15. Sad
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    The scriptures actually do give indications that ALL first century Christians were anointed, and therefore that all of them were "of the 144,000." But, as pointed out earlier, we also have the indications from verses like Matt 5:5 and Rev 21:1 and 2 Pet 3:13 that there was (or would be) an earthly hope included as part of Jehovah's kingdom through Christ.
    What you say appears logical. And it might even be scriptural. My only point was that you might not realize you are rejecting a long-standing Watchtower doctrine: that all of the early Christian were "anointed" and that, according to the Watchtower, this meant that they only had the heavenly hope in front of them.
    I'll provide some examples:
    *** w17 September p. 24 par. 2 “The Word of God . . . Exerts Power” ***
    The Bible mentions one anointed Christian in the first century who had to be disfellowshipped; later, he was reinstated. (1 Cor. 5:1-5; 2 Cor. 2:5-8)
    *** w16 November p. 14 par. 1 Do You Highly Esteem Jehovah’s Own Book? ***
    Consider the first-century Christians Euodia and Syntyche. Serious problems arose between these anointed women.
    Why do you think the Watchtower, above, concludes that this incestuous man was anointed? Why were these two women necessarily anointed?
    *** w16 January p. 26 par. 15 “We Want to Go With You” ***
    15 Jehovah chooses when in history he will select anointed ones. (Rom. 8:28-30) Jehovah began choosing anointed ones after Jesus’ death and resurrection, and it seems that all in the first-century Christian congregation were anointed.
    Here, above, was one of the very first times that the Watchtower added the word "seems" to this idea. As if they were not sure any more.
    In fact, there were literally hundreds of thousands of persons who thought they were Christians who actually gave up their lives for their faith and to protect other so-called Christians within the first couple centuries after Christ. The Watchtower has had to identify most of these so-called Christian martyrs as "weeds." For example, in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, there were 144,000 martyrs around Egypt alone. Another 40,000 suffered martyrdom under Nero, another 700,000 here, another 17,000 there.
    Think about that! Hundreds of thousands, or even millions of persons were baptized as Christians, and would not compromise their faith or their neutrality and were therefore killed (matryed) for being Christian. But we have to identify the great majority of them as "weeds" to judge them to eternal death, rather than allow them to be included in a chance for a resurrection to life on earth.
    *** w16 January p. 26 par. 15 “We Want to Go With You” ***
    From the first century until the beginning of the last days, the vast majority of those who claimed to follow Christ were false Christians; Jesus likened them to “weeds.”
    Judging them as weeds would not be necessary if the Watchtower had the option of just considering them as weak, uninformed, unrighteous persons. Instead of judging them as "weeds" worthy of going off into everlasting destruction, they would have had an opportunity to be included in the resurrection to potentially accept life on earth.
    The Watchtower once ran this information about such persecutions:
    *** w51 9/1 p. 518 Hated for His Name ***
    Brief respite followed the death of Nero, but by the latter years of the first century the second great persecution, under Emperor Domitian, flared up. It is said that in the year 95 alone some 40,000 suffered martyrdom. . . . Diocletian assumed the crown A.D. 284. At first he seemed friendly to the Christians, but in the year 303 he gave in to persuasion and opened the tenth persecution, probably the most ferocious of all. Suffocation by smoke, forcible drinking of melted lead, mass drownings and burnings, breaking on the rack of men and women alike ran the empire with blood. In a single month 17,000 were slain. In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works.
    But that information triggered a question from readers just a few months later:
    *** w52 1/15 p. 62 Questions From Readers ***
    According to the article “Hated for His Name” in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the “ten persecutions” starting in Nero’s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ’s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?—J.A., Dominican Republic.
    The article did not class with any finality the individuals that died during these persecutions, but spoke of the results in a general way. Note that a key qualification was made in the case referred to in the question: “In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works.” The victims are identified as “professed Christians”, not Christians in fact. Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus’ footsteps, being only professed Christians. They knew the world they lived in was rotten and they were listening to the message of the Christians and willing to die for it even though not in line for the high calling in Christ Jesus. Many professed Christians today might be willing to die for their faith, but still not be Jesus’ footstep followers and meeting the Scriptural requirements for such.
    We would probably hope to be able to read into this answer the idea that they could have been Christians who did not meet the requirements for the heavenly hope but might still be in line for an earthly resurrection. That idea is avoided, because the only choice given is between being "anointed Christians" or "professed Christians." So, typically, they were mostly judged as "weeds." My table head at Bethel said that these questions had seriously bothered some at Bethel at the time they first came out because Fred Franz had commented that almost all the millions of "Christian" martyrs were "weeds" destined for Gehenna. He [Bethel elder, table head] even claimed to know which Gilead missionary with the initials J.A. had just gone to the Dominican Republic, and had been the person behind the question above.
    I'm pretty sure that no current member of the GB would claim that the majority of these early Christian martyrs would be necessarily assigned to Gehenna. But the wording about "weeds" is not very reassuring.
  16. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Before the truth sets you free, it tends to make you miserable. - Richard Rohr...   
    I thought it was only supposed to be about "Boy George" so I avoided it. 😉
  17. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Before the truth sets you free, it tends to make you miserable. - Richard Rohr...   
    I think that the @admin will soon give up on trying to create topics that are supposed to be religiously neutral. The most active participants here (including me) will keep trying to make every topic about Witnesses ("CCJW").
  18. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him?   
    I asked my father about this, because he has been to 'elder's school' in the last few months. I didn't ask how recently it came up, but he implied that it came up at a previous elder's school a couple of years prior. I don't know if he was quoting an instructor, but it sounded like he might have been trying to. His answer went something like this, not an exact quote:
    Obviously, we don't want to create any documentation that makes it look like we are interfering with a person's right to participate in political activities. In some countries, that can be very dangerous. But if a person is so willing to get so involved with the world, then it surely means that he is not taking Jehovah's counsel to heart in OTHER areas, too. He will need counsel and discipline and we [elders] need to be alert to the OVERALL spiritual welfare of the brother.
    He wouldn't say if he thinks this position might result in trying to replace the "discipline" for political involvement with "discipline" for other areas of conduct or belief. Actually, he said he didn't think so, but that it just meant that political involvement is a symptom of spiritual weakness.
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Kosonen in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    I have little bit difficult to understand this 
    But, safest would be to speak and answer in the ways recommended in the New Testament.
  20. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Srecko Sostar in Before the truth sets you free, it tends to make you miserable. - Richard Rohr...   
    I try to participate with music in Arts and Culture club. But people are very "neutral". No comments or reaction :)))))
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Kosonen in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    This is very true, and applies to those of us with the earthly hope and those of the heavenly hope. It seems more serious for those of the heavenly hope:
    (Hebrews 6:4-6) . . .For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.
    (Hebrews 10:26-29) . . .For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. 29 How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?
    The same principle applies to all of us, however. All of us need to remain united in love and truth. All of us need to make sure we are not just following people blindly, but make sure we are not going against accurate knowledge of truth. Just as the Jewish law could demand death for those who trampled that Law, a Christian could trample the law of undeserved kindness and love.
  22. Thanks
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    Sometimes weeds turn out to have medicinal uses and are thus not so bad after all.
    If I put my car keys in the wrong drawer, it does not mean they no longer exist. It doesn’t mean I can never drive my car again. Nor does it mean I should have my license revoked for being reckless. Instead, when I next need to drive, i discover my keys are not in the right place. I find them and put them there.
    It is the same with weeds. If the org put them somewhere improper, that does not mean that Jehovah does. It does not mean that they are in the wrong drawer forever. It does not mean that the ones who put them in the wrong drawer ought have their spiritual license revoked. Nor need it be any huge priority to revisit the drawer of 2000 years ago and put them into another when you need not do anything with the updated status for the foreseeable future. They misjudged, perhaps. It happens.
    Probably Revelation 2:2 accounts for it:  “I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars.“ You know how our people are about keeping without spot from spiritual contamination. When the Sons of Thunder raged about people not doing things right, they were not booted out from the 12 on that account. Brothers probably overreacted and will in time rethink it. There is hardly any hurry with people that have been dead and gone for 2000 years.
    You mentioned before about how Bart Ehrman is not nearly so annoying when he is just recalling background history, and not desecrating the scriptures themselves. So when he highlights how almost immediately Christianity began to be divided into factions—moving up the date of such to the minute after Jesus died—whereas we would say till the death of the apostles, who themselves had to strain for all they were worth to keep it all together—and so Bart outlines how unity (which he never thought was there to begin with) promptly went the way of the four winds. JW HQ of the past doesn’t want to hear it, so brands them all false. I don’t think it is across the board. They have covered apologists, also ones like Waldenses throughout history and described them as mixed bags—doing some things right but not others, and probably Jehovah will take that into account.
    People are only responsible for aging upon what they know, and Bart makes clear no one knew too much of anything after a myriad of self-styled reformers and reformaters pulled the faith this way or that. The germ that was left was still precious enough for people to die for, and in the resurrection they can fill in the blanks, like Phillip did for the eunich.
     
    The departure from unity that begins directly after Jesus death is reflected here, where a dozen people weigh in with a dozen different takes, and only a few try to hold the fort—and they presently give up because it is the internet and the internet is not the congregation. Though those who oppose are united in their opposition, it is easy to see that they are not united themselves and each promote their own views which cannot long coexist with each other—unless it is all a spectacle for social media, where getting along is not important.
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK   
    Just nit-picking your numbers a bit. Wikipedia quotes sources supporting the following numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza
    It is estimated that in the 2009 flu pandemic 11–21% of the then global population (of about 6.8 billion), or around 700 million to 1.4 billion people, contracted the illness—more in absolute terms than the Spanish flu pandemic. However, with about 150,000–575,000 fatalities, it had a much lower case fatality rate.
    You quoted 61 million cases, globally, which was the CDC's estimate for the number only in the United States, where about, 300,000 were hospitalized, and 12,500 persons were said to have died from it.
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Kosonen in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    @JW Insider It is good that we do not have to decide their fate. Jesus as the appointed judge knows which judgement or reward is best suited to each individual.
    But I just recently read a sobering scripture we all probably remember. Revelation 2:1
     “To the angel of the congregation in Ephʹe·sus write: These are the things that he says who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: 2  ‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars. 3  You are also showing endurance, and you have persevered for the sake of my name and have not grown weary. 4  Nevertheless, I hold this against you, that you have left the love you had at first. 5  “‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first. If you do not, I will come to you, and I will remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
     
     
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Colin Browne in Demas, Scriptures Daily 13th March 2020   
    Indeed, we should concentrate on the Christian Greek scriptures. Our Scriptures Daily do. But unlike Christendom who call the Hebrew text, "The OLD testament", we believe that to be a misnomer - Which in turn, proves that they are rejecting an important part of Jehovah's word. Some of the prophecies are yet to be fulfilled.
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