JW Insider

That was partially answered in the previous post. But there were more quotes of course.
The first is from the Watchtower, September 15, 1941, p. 288
Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon.
Sometimes it was even a matter of "days." The following is from Consolation (lka, Awake!) April 27, 1942, p. 13
Proof is now submitted that we are now living at the end of the days, and we may expect to see Daniel and the other mentioned princes any day now!
And the following was already quoted from "Universal War Near," 1935:
. . . during the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties and tell the people that by such means they will keep that world peace and bring about prosperity.

It started mostly in Rutherford's acceptance of conspiratorialist half-truths from some anti-Catholic sources back in 1938. There were strong rumors that the Catholic Church wanted to use the opportunities brought about by the war to control the entire world through a kind of Catholic caliphate. Rutherford could easily tie fascist Italy to the Vatican through Mussolini, and Hitler's concord with the Vatican had already been exposed, too. Communist Russia was not perceived as an "Axis" power of course, as it would become the country that would go on to defeat Hitler almost single-handedly, but joining with the "Allied" powers, to complete it. But he looked to information about how Communist party sources were trying to reach a hand out for peace with the Vatican. And he followed rabid anti-Catholic sources to prove that the Catholic church was looking to rule the entire world.
Therefore, in 1938, in the booklet, "Face the Facts" he predicted that the 'Axis' powers and communists would form a Catholic "combine" to finally take over America and Britain.
When Mussolini marched to Rome to take possession thereof he was an avowed atheist, opposed to God and his kingdom, and would not tolerate anyone who supports God's kingdom or advertises the same. He was then opposed to all religious organizations. But in 1929 Mussolini and the pope, the head of that mighty religious organization, entered into an alliance by which temporal power in Italy was restored to the pope, and Mussolini became a devoted Catholic, and therefore a supporter of religion. Likewise the dictator of the totalitarian rule of Germany has entered into an alliance with the pope, and he is an avowed Catholic and supports the Catholic religion, and protects it within that arbitrary government.
Recently Mr. Forbes, executive secretary of the Communist party, proposed mutual co-operation between Communism and the Roman Catholic Hierarchy in state affairs. In answer thereto the pope, acting through his cardinal and authoritative representative (Verdier), at Paris, made reply to the Communist party in these words: "If this gesture of the outstretched hand from your side expresses the wish to become better acquainted with your Catholic brothers in order to give better respect to the religion which inspires them to their convictions, their feelings, their works, then the church will not refuse to carry out this work of enlightenment and you will recognize that this can contribute greatly to the happiness of all." To such generous offer from the pope the Communist party responded in these words: "The outstretched hand of the Communist party to the Catholic people remains outstretched." (New York Times, July 26, 1938) True, the Catholic Press of America, since the Hierarchy's connection with the Fascists was exposed in Australia, in Seattle, Washington, and in other places, has had much to say about a possible break between the pope and the Fascists. Such publication is merely a political trick to keep the people deceived and in the dark while the Totalitarians march on and seize control of America and England.
The indisputable facts are that the Roman Catholic Hierarchy has stooped wholly to political methods to gain control of the world, and concerning such an honest Catholic of New York has written a book entitled "Rome Stoops to Conquer", and therein submits the proof that Vatican City's chief objective is to rule the world in conjunction with radical powers. The Hierarchy has placed its trusted men in the key positions of political office in practically every nation of the world, which men are first Catholic and, regardless of the just rights of the people, always carry out the will of the Hierarchy in political governmental affairs. These facts, which cannot be disputed, disclose the Roman Catholic Hierarchy's determination to act as a kind of spiritual super-government over the dictators of the world, forming a part of the monstrosity, and which violently opposes Jehovah and his kingdom under Christ Jesus. The monstrosity moves onward! . . .
When the totalitarian Catholic combine gains control of the British Isles, which it is certain to do, then all liberties of the people will be at an end. . . .
The totalitarian combine is going to get control of England and America. You cannot prevent it. Do not try. Your safety is on the Lord's side; but there really will be but a short time that the combine will hold sway, because it is written in the Lord's Word, at 1 Thessalonians 5: 3, that when this crowd says, 'We are now at peace and safety,' the Lord sends sudden destruction upon them, and they are at their wits' end, and they shall find no way of escape.
Rutherford spoke of Armageddon coming against a world of totalitarian nations, and this is what he meant. The totalitarian combine would have already taken over England and America when Armageddon arrives. The nearness of this time was expressed in many ways. One of them, in the same booklet, echoed the Millions campaign, which was NOT just about the great crowd, but about the world in general. This time it was more specifically about the "great crowd" [Jonadabs]. The doctrine had changed so that ONLY the Jonadabs would survive Armageddon.
Would it be Scripturally proper for them to now marry and to begin to rear children? No, is the answer, which is supported by the Scriptures. Referring to the prophetic picture: Noah's sons and their wives had no children before or during the flood, and none were born of them until after the flood was dried up, and the record is that it was two years after the flood before children born are mentioned.. . . Those Jonadabs who now contemplate marriage, it would seem, would do better if they wait a few years, until the fiery storm of Armageddon is gone,. . . The only ones who will survive Armageddon will be God's faithful children . . . . .The kingdom is here, and certain and complete victory will crown the King, Christ Jesus, and those who stand with him. The earth is to be filled with a righteous people, and those faithful Jonadabs now living shall not die, but shall have a part in the performance or work of populating the earth with righteous people, and all these things to the eternal praise of Jehovah and the vindication of his name.
Since 1935, Rutherford had been saying that we were in the time "immediately" before Armageddon, and that it would therefore NOT be scriptural to get married and have children either immediately before or immediately after Armageddon. That this meant a matter of only "months" had been made clear, too. This next quote is from the booklet and talk "Universal War Near" from 1935
. . . during the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties and tell the people that by such means they will keep that world peace and bring about prosperity. (Universal War Near, 1935, p. 3, 26-27)
For a few years, the idea had been that there would be NO winners of a war before Armageddon, because nations would keep a tentative peace through treaties until Armageddon broke out. But this had changed by 1938 (above) and by December 1941 the idea that the totalitarian (axis) powers would win had been around for about three years. But only in December 1941 had the idea been added that the totalitarian, axis powers (the Catholic Vatican Nazi Fascist combine) had managed to take over Belgium, France, and others, but would be ready to compromise and therefore not gain full control of America and Britain, but would manage their "win" through the taking away of freedoms.
You'll notice too that the idea of a "new League of Nations" was already in quotes from secular sources.
[December 1, 1941 Watchtower, p.357-362]


It was no longer a full "military" victory to be expected by the king of the north. But the king of the north would be the one to extend its rule over all the nations of the earth.

Note that Rutherford concludes the article the same way. He hasn't really given up on the idea that that totalitarian (Axis) rule would still overrun all the nations of the earth.


Only if the totalitarian rule would overrun all the nations of the earth would it be possible for the cry of Peace and Security to come from the "king of the north" rather than the "king of the south." Therefore, it was earlier in the same article where this had been stated (more than once):

 

This claim is about the talk by Knorr in Sept 1942 and the booklet by the same name "Peace - Can It Last?"
Knorr, didn't anticipate it. He knew about the formation of the United Nations because it had already been announced for the past 9 months before the talk. President Roosevelt himself had called it the "United Nations." Knorr even stated in the talk that the name "United Nations" had already been announced by a member of the President's cabinet. Listening to the talk, and reading the booklet, you can see therefore, that this was never a prediction, nor was it presented as a prediction.
It was not spun as a prediction until 1958 when Fred Franz wrote the book "Your Will Be Done On Earth" and this portion implying a prediction was requoted in the 2/1/1960 Watchtower. By July 15, 1960 the claim had become very explicit:
*** w60 7/15 p. 444 par. 19 Staying Awake with the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” ***
. In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up. Such wakefulness was concerning events that unerringly took place three years later. At the 1958 Divine Will International Assembly amazing advance information in connection with Daniel’s prophecy was given about events to occur in the immediate future. Such evidence of spiritual foresight is recorded for us in the book “Your Will Be Done on Earth.” Once again the “faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time for the guidance of all lovers of God. Surely one’s present security depends on his staying awake with the “faithful and discreet slave.”
The Watchtower had been predicting that the NON-democracies, the AXIS powers would win WWII, at least up until 9 months before the talk. But then Knorr had also repeated a prior idea that the war would be stopped by treaties with no real winners. Then by the time of the talk, the idea was that the Vatican would compromise but that the win by the Allies would not last long BECAUSE the cry of peace and security after the war would be the immediate end of peace due to Armageddon being triggered. (using 1 Thessallonians 5). Also, this "win" would be declared by the new TOTALITARIAN world order under the totalitarian armies of the UN. The Watchtower was interpreting this situation to support the idea that it would now only be a matter of a very short time for the Kingdom to take over, compared to the length of the war itself. The idea that Armageddon was only MONTHS away, instead of years, was a common theme for the remainder of the war.

This claim is about the talk by Knorr in Sept 1942 and the booklet by the same name "Peace - Can It Last?"
Knorr, didn't anticipate it. He knew about the formation of the United Nations because it had already been announced for the past 9 months before the talk. President Roosevelt himself had called it the "United Nations." Knorr even stated in the talk that the name "United Nations" had already been announced by a member of the President's cabinet. Listening to the talk, and reading the booklet, you can see therefore, that this was never a prediction, nor was it presented as a prediction.
It was not spun as a prediction until 1958 when Fred Franz wrote the book "Your Will Be Done On Earth" and this portion implying a prediction was requoted in the 2/1/1960 Watchtower. By July 15, 1960 the claim had become very explicit:
*** w60 7/15 p. 444 par. 19 Staying Awake with the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” ***
. In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up. Such wakefulness was concerning events that unerringly took place three years later. At the 1958 Divine Will International Assembly amazing advance information in connection with Daniel’s prophecy was given about events to occur in the immediate future. Such evidence of spiritual foresight is recorded for us in the book “Your Will Be Done on Earth.” Once again the “faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time for the guidance of all lovers of God. Surely one’s present security depends on his staying awake with the “faithful and discreet slave.”
The Watchtower had been predicting that the NON-democracies, the AXIS powers would win WWII, at least up until 9 months before the talk. But then Knorr had also repeated a prior idea that the war would be stopped by treaties with no real winners. Then by the time of the talk, the idea was that the Vatican would compromise but that the win by the Allies would not last long BECAUSE the cry of peace and security after the war would be the immediate end of peace due to Armageddon being triggered. (using 1 Thessallonians 5). Also, this "win" would be declared by the new TOTALITARIAN world order under the totalitarian armies of the UN. The Watchtower was interpreting this situation to support the idea that it would now only be a matter of a very short time for the Kingdom to take over, compared to the length of the war itself. The idea that Armageddon was only MONTHS away, instead of years, was a common theme for the remainder of the war.

Jesus was not just anointed in 29 and ruling as king by 33, he was also already called "king of kings." As you already know, I'm sure, there is no scripture or prophecy that depicts Jesus waiting to be made king in 1914.
(1 Timothy 6:13-16) . . .Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders 14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might.. . .
I'm not going to say that the scriptures are lying when they say that Jesus had been made king in the first century. I imagine that if you could be transported back in time to the first century and heard these Bible writers saying the following, you would be saying: "No! No! Jesus doesn't deserve all this honor. Stop referring to Jesus as King." Stop repeating scriptures like the one above, or like the title that Revelation gives Jesus:
(Revelation 17:14) . . .because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. . .
(Acts 2:34-36) . . .“Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
(1 Corinthians 15:25) . . .For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.
(Matthew 28:18) 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
(Revelation 1:5) . . .and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . .
(Philippians 2:9, 10) 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground. . .
(Ephesians 1:20, 21) 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.
I can imagine you arguing with Paul, saying that he should stop saying that when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was already placed far above every government and authority and power and lordship, because that was the same as saying that he was given a name even higher than kings and emperors and Caesars. You might argue to Paul that he should stop saying such things, because then Paul himself is saying that Jesus is a king. Surely, Jesus was just joking when he told Pilate that the governor himself was saying that he was a king. Surely the sign on the stake was wrong when it claimed that Jesus had said he was a king. Perhaps you would argue against the title Christ, too. Because Christ was the same as saying he was the Messiah: the Messianic king.
(Mark 15:32) . . .Let the Christ, the King of Israel, now come down off the torture stake, . . .
(Luke 23:2, 3) . . .and saying he himself is Christ a king.” 3 Now Pilate asked him the question: “Are you the King of the Jews?” In answer he said: “You yourself are saying it.”
(Luke 23:35-38) . . .let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One.” 36 Even the soldiers mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37 and saying: “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself.” 38 There was also an inscription over him: “This is the King of the Jews.”
Prophecy was not completed in 70. But we do know that in the first century Jesus said that his disciples should stop concerning themselves with chronology.
This is all very possible, and one way or another these scriptures will be fulfilled. But we must watch out for hubris and presumptuousness when we try to pretend that we absolutely know it must happen through a specific agency on earth. Jehovah may fulfill his word by making rocks cry out if necessary. We should keep in mind that these are very interesting and sometimes reasonable interpretations, but they are still just interpretations. It's very haughty to look at a track record that has failed on every single prophetic prediction so far, and then claim that we must be right on this particular future prediction.
You probably know that there are several religions in Christendom that believe we must watch the United Nations for fulfillments of several Bible prophecies and end-time events. There area also several conspiratorial crackpots who discuss the UN and declare exaggerated claims for the purpose of fearmongering for followers. There is a lot that appears to be "truth" about the UN from various "trustworthy" sources that claim to be directly quoting UN documents. But when you take the time to look at the actual documents they are interpreting, you realize that it's built on half-truths or less.

Jesus was not just anointed in 29 and ruling as king by 33, he was also already called "king of kings." As you already know, I'm sure, there is no scripture or prophecy that depicts Jesus waiting to be made king in 1914.
(1 Timothy 6:13-16) . . .Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders 14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might.. . .
I'm not going to say that the scriptures are lying when they say that Jesus had been made king in the first century. I imagine that if you could be transported back in time to the first century and heard these Bible writers saying the following, you would be saying: "No! No! Jesus doesn't deserve all this honor. Stop referring to Jesus as King." Stop repeating scriptures like the one above, or like the title that Revelation gives Jesus:
(Revelation 17:14) . . .because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. . .
(Acts 2:34-36) . . .“Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
(1 Corinthians 15:25) . . .For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.
(Matthew 28:18) 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
(Revelation 1:5) . . .and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . .
(Philippians 2:9, 10) 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground. . .
(Ephesians 1:20, 21) 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.
I can imagine you arguing with Paul, saying that he should stop saying that when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was already placed far above every government and authority and power and lordship, because that was the same as saying that he was given a name even higher than kings and emperors and Caesars. You might argue to Paul that he should stop saying such things, because then Paul himself is saying that Jesus is a king. Surely, Jesus was just joking when he told Pilate that the governor himself was saying that he was a king. Surely the sign on the stake was wrong when it claimed that Jesus had said he was a king. Perhaps you would argue against the title Christ, too. Because Christ was the same as saying he was the Messiah: the Messianic king.
(Mark 15:32) . . .Let the Christ, the King of Israel, now come down off the torture stake, . . .
(Luke 23:2, 3) . . .and saying he himself is Christ a king.” 3 Now Pilate asked him the question: “Are you the King of the Jews?” In answer he said: “You yourself are saying it.”
(Luke 23:35-38) . . .let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One.” 36 Even the soldiers mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37 and saying: “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself.” 38 There was also an inscription over him: “This is the King of the Jews.”
Prophecy was not completed in 70. But we do know that in the first century Jesus said that his disciples should stop concerning themselves with chronology.
This is all very possible, and one way or another these scriptures will be fulfilled. But we must watch out for hubris and presumptuousness when we try to pretend that we absolutely know it must happen through a specific agency on earth. Jehovah may fulfill his word by making rocks cry out if necessary. We should keep in mind that these are very interesting and sometimes reasonable interpretations, but they are still just interpretations. It's very haughty to look at a track record that has failed on every single prophetic prediction so far, and then claim that we must be right on this particular future prediction.
You probably know that there are several religions in Christendom that believe we must watch the United Nations for fulfillments of several Bible prophecies and end-time events. There area also several conspiratorial crackpots who discuss the UN and declare exaggerated claims for the purpose of fearmongering for followers. There is a lot that appears to be "truth" about the UN from various "trustworthy" sources that claim to be directly quoting UN documents. But when you take the time to look at the actual documents they are interpreting, you realize that it's built on half-truths or less.

I'm so glad you mention this. I'm feeling guilty for having abandoned the 1914 topic for the child molestation topic, and now here, the Babylon topic. I'm being tossed about like waves, and totally distracted. By the time I get around to coming to the forum, 20 new comments have piled up on top of the one comment I really wanted to respond to, and mentally saved till later, and now, lo and behold, more stuff! Not only more comments in one topic but more new posts. Don't get me wrong, I would hate for things to get stagnant, but there is only so much time one has to peel back the layers of comments to get to the one you really wanted to reply to. I am still trying to get back to JWI on the 1914 topic! Pity we don't get paid for this....
@The Librarian I wonder, is there away where each individual member could flag comments of choice? And that way it would be easier to find and reply to at a later time?

For people who like to lick their wounds from time to time this is true. True forgiveness takes away all wounds and resentment. A scar is not painful unless you open it again.  It is merely a sign that you got a wound and now know how to avoid it in future so it will not happen again.
People should learn to get on with life. Not look back. Every day is an opportunity to grow into a new and better person.... 
When you rehash the past (if it comes up in the brain by accident) and think too much about it in an emotional way - the brain ends up rebuilding the bad memories and synapses.... In the brain it will tend to come up more... and when emotion is attached to memories one remembers it even better....... new synapses....
When bad thoughts come up...... do not think about them.... get on with making new beautiful memories. 

False religion today surely includes Vatican City. But I don't limit the symbol of Babylon to what might come out of the literal city limits of Rome (which includes Vatican City). I know that many have thought like this, including Russell and his early associates, even Rutherford. I didn't look it up for an exact quote, but I have read that at least one edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia states:
"It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined."
Again, I would not limit it to Catholicism or even just the false forms of Christianity. I think the Watchtower publications have it right in defining Babylon as a "world empire of false religion."
That makes more sense that it is simply "false religion." But I don't know why the U.N. would carry that message to other nations, telling them that Babylon the Great is simply "false religion." Perhaps you mean that only the U.N. could carry a message demanding some action against religion, in general, or against specific religions. At present, they have no such power to do anything like that. If they did, we already know it would be completely ignored, at least under current world circumstances. Most things done and said by the UN are ignored, or they have simply been overridden by countries with veto power. Therefore waiting on the U.N. to do something, even if it MIGHT happen, is really the same as waiting on some sign. And that particular expectation is based on an interpretation of a book wherein we have changed interpretations dozens of times over the years.
If we are still waiting on world circumstances to change such that such a message could be carried out with any effect by the U.N. then we are contradicting Jesus' words that the end can come as a sudden surprise at any time.
Since we know that it would take something much greater than the U.N. right now, we also must say that this scenario can only play out if we believe that:
*** rr chap. 18 p. 198 par. 18 “My Great Rage Will Flare Up” ***
They will not realize that it was actually God who put the thought into their hearts to get rid of religions that have so grossly misrepresented him.—Rev. 17:16, 17.
If it takes God to put this thought into their hearts, then there is no need to speculate at all about the U.N.
And your question about who can personally carry that message in open forums like this seems wrong. It seems like you are seeing way too much importance in a little "backwater" forum where only about three dozen persons ever speak up about such issues, and where two dozen of them are probably you.

To be clear, I never said that Babylon the Great was Rome, either as a literal city or even specifically the same exact symbol as Rome. But there is definitely a strong tie to Rome, if I am understanding the symbol of Rome correctly. I have proposed that Rome represents the world. Babylon is tied very closely to this same "Rome" as a symbol. Revelation says that this woman with the name "Babylon the Great" has something to do with the "seven hills on which the woman sits."
(Revelation 17:9) “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top.
(Revelation 17:9, Catholic Jerusalem Bible) . . .“This calls for shrewdness: The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman is sitting."
There has been only one city that has had the name "the city on seven hills" for well over 2,200 years. The Latin Vulgate here says: "septem capita septem montes" (seven heads on seven hills[mounts]). Cicero and Plutarch both mention the "septem colles/montes Romae"  (seven hills/mounts of Rome) and both indicate that this term had been used long before Revelation was written. A Wikipedia article is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_hills_of_Rome
So any first readers of Revelation, would have just recalled (traumatically) the devastating attack from Rome on Jerusalem, and the continuing persecution of Jews and Christians by Rome. There would be no question how they would immediately identify the Woman as the Great City who sits atop seven hills. 
(Revelation 17:3-18) . . .And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. . . . On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.” 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. . . . The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. .  .  “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. . . .18 And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
So this woman is a great city who sits on seven hills. At the time Revelation was written there was only city that sat on seven hills. So, yes, I would say there is some very close connection between the city of Rome and the prostitute named Babylon the Great.
Of course, I made it clear that I don't think the city is literal. But this woman has the name of Babylon and she sits on top of a symbol of Rome. The NWT cross-references Jeremiah 51:8 and Isaiah 21:9 with Revelation 18:4. In fact, the cross-references tell the story exactly in the way any well-read Christian would have read Revelation. It's the contexts of those cross-references, even though they applied to Babylon, that makes it easy to make the same application to Rome. These references explain both a physical and symbolic message that was simple and unavoidable:
(Jeremiah 51:5-10) . . .For Israel and Judah are not widowed from their God, from Jehovah of armies.  . .  6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, And escape for your life. Do not perish because of her error. For it is the time for Jehovah’s vengeance. He is paying her back for what she has done.  7 Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of Jehovah; She made all the earth drunk. From her wine the nations have drunk; That is why the nations have gone mad.  8 Suddenly Babylon has fallen and is broken. Wail over her! Get balsam for her pain; perhaps she may be healed.”  9 “We tried to heal Babylon, but she could not be healed. Leave her and let us go, each to his own land. For her judgment has reached to the heavens; It is as high as the clouds. 10 Jehovah has brought about justice for us. Come, let us recount in Zion the work of Jehovah our God.”
(Isaiah 21:9)  9 Look at what is coming: . . . Then he spoke up and said: “She has fallen! Babylon has fallen! All the graven images of her gods he has shattered to the ground!”
The clue is in the idea that all her religious images have proved worthless from Jehovah's judgments against Babylon. Jehovah's people must turn away from any reliance on false gods and turn back completely to Jehovah's pure worship:
(Isaiah 48:20) . . .Go out from Babylon! Flee from the Chal·deʹans! Announce it with a joyful cry! Proclaim it! Make it known to the ends of the earth. Say: “Jehovah has repurchased his servant Jacob.
(Isaiah 52:11) 11 Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean! Get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean, You who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah.
These scriptures were about judgments against Babylon because Babylon had represented the cup of God's judgments against the nations. But, after that fact, for God's people Babylon had now represented the fact that they, in exile, were being held back from restoring the recently destroyed Temple at Jerusalem. Yet they were to restore pure worship in a New Jerusalem. These themes will play out in the rest of Revelation, too.
You had said I am trying to detract from 1919. Not exactly. Getting out of Babylon refers to restoring pure worship. For the WTS, this has been a long process that included positive and correct teachings that Russell had accepted before 1919, including removing "Babylon-like" graven images, which was a hallmark of Catholicism and even several Protestant denominations. There was a cleansing of false doctrines like the Trinity, hell-fire, immortal soul, etc. Rutherford pushed to get rid of several more false ideas that Russell had not removed, including an adjustment to the counsel about participation in war as early as 1917, although  most of the new adjustments came in the years 1927 to 1931, culminating in a name change that helped separate the Bible Students even further from the baggage of nearly 50 years for certain other false teachings and misinterpretations. (Christmas, pyramidology, Zionism)
I don't see anything particularly special about 1919, but I can understand that it was a year when opportunities arose for removing more false teachings. And there were some good new initiatives under Rutherford in 1919 that should be highlighted. (Especially expanded participation by many in door-to-door ministry.) But since 1919 was primarily a really big year for pushing the false teachings about 1925, I would not focus too much on the year 1919 itself. It's really a continuous stream of incremental progress, and the shock of failure over all of the 1914/1915 predictions was probably one of the reasons that so LITTLE progress was made in 1919 itself.
In truth, we as an organization have been blessed with spiritual progress since the late 1800's. There are likely many more blessings of spiritual progress to be made in the near future. We can be happy for this. We are blessed for it. Of course, you (Cesar) apparently hate it that I raise my little, unworthy voice in opposition to the chronology traditions we are still stuck with. That's your right and it's what I would expect from many Witnesses. But my own strongly-held conscientious beliefs include the idea that we would be even more blessed if these "strongly entrenched things" were overturned. It's not like these ideas are my own. In discussions at work while at Bethel have heard a few members of the Governing Body themselves (from about 1977 to 1982) struggle with the 1919 date and related dates. I heard Brother Dan Sydlik himself say that we ought to just scrap all this 1919 stuff and start over from scratch.

Buying and selling real estate for purposes of having buildings to meet in is just a common function of getting along in the world we live in. "Otherwise we would have to get out of the world," as Paul said.
But there have been some rather ironic "Dedication" talks by WT presidents, vice-presidents, and Governing Body members through the years. Some of these buildings were "dedicated" for one purpose, and one purpose only: to be used from that point until the Great Tribulation, and hopefully even through Armageddon as places where only true worship of Jehovah would always shine. I have a copy of a dedication talk for the old Assembly Hall in Queens NY from the 1970's, which had several of these types of references as I recall.
Some of this was 1970's "hyperbole" just like the way Rutherford dedicated Beth Sarim in San Diego for the continued use of Abraham and David after 1925, but ultimately sold it off to "worldly" persons.

This is a good attitude, and is probably expected for one who remains a Witness. But it's also very easy to start thinking that a person who asks for money damages is somehow tainted, or we think they must not believe that this system will be over in a few decades at most.
But we must be ready to square this with the fact that the Watchtower has sued for money damages on a few occasions, and sometimes not just to the guilty parties, but a scattershot suit that becomes a fishing expedition among many different companies to try to put the true story together to see who is responsible. The following was the first of many reports that came up on a Google search of "Watchtower sues over Warwick site "
Battle over contamination at Watchtower site in Warwick ...
www.recordonline.com>article>NEWS   Dec 14, 2015 - A slew of companies sued by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society say they don’t bear responsibility for contaminating the Warwick site where the religious group is building its massive world headquarters, and will therefore not pay for it.Watchtower, better known as Jehovah’s ...

This is a good attitude, and is probably expected for one who remains a Witness. But it's also very easy to start thinking that a person who asks for money damages is somehow tainted, or we think they must not believe that this system will be over in a few decades at most.
But we must be ready to square this with the fact that the Watchtower has sued for money damages on a few occasions, and sometimes not just to the guilty parties, but a scattershot suit that becomes a fishing expedition among many different companies to try to put the true story together to see who is responsible. The following was the first of many reports that came up on a Google search of "Watchtower sues over Warwick site "
Battle over contamination at Watchtower site in Warwick ...
www.recordonline.com>article>NEWS   Dec 14, 2015 - A slew of companies sued by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society say they don’t bear responsibility for contaminating the Warwick site where the religious group is building its massive world headquarters, and will therefore not pay for it.Watchtower, better known as Jehovah’s ...

Valid points made on both counts.
Sigh......Maybe they will someday turn over a new leaf and I will see on the webpage:
”Watchtower—home of the polite lawyers, the reasonable lawyers, the Christian lawyers.......anybody representing anything can roll them.”
 

The hurricane, yes, and probably 9-11, too. A friend of mine who left Bethel shortly after 9/11/2001 thought that several of the Governing Body must have been thinking of leaving shortly after the WTC towers fell. He said there was fear in their voices, and a lot more closed-door, "bunker" mentality. I worked in Manhattan (at 30 Rockefeller Plaza) for many years before, during and after the 9-11 event, and there was a similar prevailing fear all over the city. Immediately, you could no longer use most of the extended underground tunnels that very few people knew about around midtown. You could no longer walk through (or under) buildings that had a door you could enter on one block and then out on the next block. Connected with the underground shopping concourses around Rockefeller Center, I could sometimes walk through 5 or 6 of 10 blocks underground, and 3 more blocks through the buildings so that.I would miss any rain or snow or pedestrian traffic. 
Hundreds of companies, including my own, looked for office space place in upstate NY, moved data centers outside the vicinity and began immediately moving more personnel and offices to NJ and upstate NY along with new or expanded offices in Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, etc. I ended up spending a lot of time in 'Warwick' (Tuxedo Park) just across from where the Watchtower offices are now located, because that's where we worked out our disaster recovery (DR/BC) plans for all our IT data centers. The WT wasn't there at the time, and I refer to the company that had an upstate HQ at the other end of the same lake.
I have no problem with the speculation that the destruction of the symbolic Babylon the Great could occur after a devastating persecution begins. Whether that persecution lasts a literal 3.5 years or more or less is another speculation that could well occur. As @Arauna noted, however, there is no definite placement of a 3.5 year period within the context of the discussion of Babylon the Great. The idea that BtG could be one particular city is not the kind of thing I would look for myself in Revelation, but I understand the appeal of this solution, especially when we consider Revelation does not picture then end of this Great City as the final end of all nations. (So many ongoing sectors of the world continue to mourn her, although we don't know for how long.)
I take a strong interest in the Society's way of explaining it, and I know that it creates a few contradictions, but it still produces a rational set of events in a timeline. I am willing to consider other solutions as speculative possibilities, too.
No doubt, Revelation was written in symbols because the very intent was to fire our imaginations. I think that the symbols are so obvious in most cases that even a non-Christian would understand much of what Revelation's imagery would convey to the Christians who would read it.
I have a preferred speculative way of reading the book of Revelation, too. It would preclude the New York City scenario for some of the reasons I already pointed out, and for reasons I consider even more important. These additional reasons relate to keeping our speculations within the framework of the rest of the Bible. I don't think yours does, but then again, I'm pretty sure you probably wouldn't think that my own framework is correct either.
If I get time tomorrow, I'll explain some of the framework for Revelation that makes sense to me. As I said, it doesn't mean that you are wrong, or the Watchtower is wrong. But it's different enough that I would need to explain it as a foundation, before going on to discuss the specifics of Babylon the Great.

@Kosonen, I agree with much of what @Arauna has said above but I would consider several different factors that get in the way of the NYC identification for BtG.
For one thing, there is what I already mentioned about the idea that Jehovah would "lead" the WTS out of NYC/BtG for a few extra moments of smooth operation and comfort when this tribulation on NYC begins, but not do the same for all the Circuit Overseers, Elders, pioneers, individual anointed ones, and "rank-and-file" Witness families. It makes Jehovah a "respecter of persons" and it makes it appear that Jehovah wants to protect buildings and physical equipment as somehow more important than lowly individuals. Yet Jehovah sees the "sparrow" fall to the ground.
(1 Corinthians 10:13) . . .No temptation has come upon you except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out so that you may be able to endure it.
Why would Jehovah make the way out for some, so many years in advance, but not make the way out for others until a related tribulation is right on top of them? Potentially trapping Witnesses in the worst of all situations for 3.5 years.
I understand how you could still defend against this possible contradiction. After all, a major point of the Olivet sermon (Mt24,Mk13,Lk21) was to get Christians out of Jerusalem in time so that would avoid the greatest part of the tribulation, but not send them out so early that they would suffer for years waiting after fleeing to the mountains of Pella, for example. Jehovah made a way out in this case by opening a "window of opportunity" between the attack in 66 CE, and the destruction in 70 CE (which coincidentally [?] happened to be about 3.5 years). And of course, the cutting short of those days of tribulation was on account of the "chosen ones." You could make an argument that the "chosen ones" do not generally include the anointed or other Witnesses outside of NY headquarters, but especially refers to those "chosen ones" at the headquarters in upstate NY.
Through "eisegesis," it is possible to make almost any historical situation fit a Biblical prophecy when the prophecy is written in symbols, or we are overly anxious to see prophecy fulfilled. You mentioned the fact that the WTS makes most of this prophecy fulfilled 100 years ago. In truth, the WT writers could just as easily have found "significant" fulfillments for these prophecies anywhere between 1799 and 2019. Russell found fulfillments in the 1800's. The WT writers in Rutherford's time latched onto the most dramatic thing that ever happened to the WT organization during the time period of "limbo" between 1914 and 1925. As an example the Watch Tower publications promoted ideas like the following that very year in 1919:

   
Of course, these writers were "cut from the same cloth" as those who could write the 1917 book "The Finished Mystery" which contains so many outlandish "fulfillments" of prophecy, such as Revelation 14:20 being prophesied in advance as the distance from Brooklyn to Scranton by way of the Lackawana RR station (p.230). This was a book that could literally find some significance in Brother Russell's hemorrhoids (p.54).

Of course, I'm not comparing your idea to the same foolishness produced in "The Finished Mystery." NYC does more than just "symbolize" a commercial center, a financial center, a foreign relations center (UN), a fashion center, an entertainment center. To some extent it's just about every kind of worldly center except a religious center. 
My main reason for dismissing the significance of NYC as prophetically significant here, however, is because I don't believe we should pin any of our "end-times" expectations on any specific "knowledge" about anything happening in the world today. That includes anything that the UN says no matter how significant it seems. It also means we should give no particular significance to anything that the Pope says, anything that any world council of churches or any other leaders would say -- if we think it means that the end is somehow more imminent because of anything we might think is a sign matching a prophecy in the Bible.
And that's because Jesus warned us that the end would come at a time when it would surprise us. A thief does not give a sign or warning before breaking into a house, therefore we would expect no sign or advance warning. The parousia will come upon the world while people are still thinking there is peace and security, much like the way life was going on as usual before the Flood, or before fire rained down upon Sodom, as if without warning. The circumstances of this speculation about NYC, according to your own explanation, provides a way of extending the end of the system beyond 3.5 years from now. This creates a problem. It creates a window of opportunity for some to say "the master is delaying" and a temptation to use that time to lord it over their fellow slaves. It creates a window of opportunity for the heart to be tempted into a lull, where the love of a great number of Christians could cool off. Jesus told us that it would come as a surprise for a reason. So that we would be ready at all times, not just trying to get our hearts in shape after we see a significant sign.
Also, you pretty much admitted that this NYC scenario provides "no reason to panic" on the one hand and a reason to warn Witnesses in NYC on the other hand, when this scenario is more widely understood.

The old hen will rightly get mad at me for this one, but:
what in the world could be the problem with Buffalo NY? It has the largest summer garden show in the country. Call that a problem?
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/08/redeeming-americas-armpit.html

It seems that you believe that the Watchtower Society, or perhaps the Governing Body, representing Jehovah's Witnesses, have already followed the advice of Revelation 18:4 to 'Get out of Babylon the Great.' This happens sometime between the time when the angels say that Babylon has fallen, and before she is burned, and the rest of the world mourns for her from a distance.
We currently teach that Babylon the Great took God's people captive beginning in about the year 100 CE, and that Babylon fell in 1919 CE. But that she will be completely destroyed during the time of the Great Tribulation/Armageddon.
You must think that the Society and/or GB have made this move out of New York City without being fully conscious of Jehovah's leading in this matter. I say this partly because, while they themselves got out of of Babylon the Great, they did not ask all other Witnesses to get out of Babylon the Great (BtG) before it burns and sinks.
Of course, you might say that there is no need for other Witnesses to leave NYC, because when it's time for BtG to burn and sink, Jehovah can and will protect his people. Of course, this implies that Jehovah can protect individuals, but not an organization, or not the individuals in the GB. Then again, you might be implying that it was the temptation to share with her in her sins that made it more important for the WTS/GB to get out of the Great City (NYC), so that they would not be tempted to get involved with the UN in that same city, for example. Perhaps the temptations on the WTS were somehow greater than the same temptations of the Great City on congregations or individual Witnesses.
I see this potential contradiction as a hole in your theory.
Looking forward to your explanation.

Thanks. I deserved it. It's true that there is almost no comparison between elders and the payment factor with the clergy. I'm sure it's the main reason that this particular distinction is made so clearly in the article. We happen to have a "paid" elder in our own Kingdom Hall, but it's rare, and was supposed to be transitional, as this housing was designated for the circuit overseer who stays in a different hall.
But I can't see any reason to argue such a distinction for the COs and many Bethelites and Governing Body members who definitely are paid with housing and meals, along with a small cash allowance for other services and needs. And these payments are produced out of the collections of money that HQ receives from our contributions. What would likely happen if everyone stopped contributing food, housing, cash, monetary estates, liquid assets? The CO's, Bethelites, and Governing Body would no longer have housing and food, and because they are no longer being paid this way, most would no longer be able to perform the duties they now perform.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this in the least. Paul was a full-time minister who said that the 'bull should not be muzzled when threshing out the grain.' He had a right to expect payment for his ministry if he wished, just as others were doing.

Thanks. I deserved it. It's true that there is almost no comparison between elders and the payment factor with the clergy. I'm sure it's the main reason that this particular distinction is made so clearly in the article. We happen to have a "paid" elder in our own Kingdom Hall, but it's rare, and was supposed to be transitional, as this housing was designated for the circuit overseer who stays in a different hall.
But I can't see any reason to argue such a distinction for the COs and many Bethelites and Governing Body members who definitely are paid with housing and meals, along with a small cash allowance for other services and needs. And these payments are produced out of the collections of money that HQ receives from our contributions. What would likely happen if everyone stopped contributing food, housing, cash, monetary estates, liquid assets? The CO's, Bethelites, and Governing Body would no longer have housing and food, and because they are no longer being paid this way, most would no longer be able to perform the duties they now perform.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this in the least. Paul was a full-time minister who said that the 'bull should not be muzzled when threshing out the grain.' He had a right to expect payment for his ministry if he wished, just as others were doing.

Were it not for their concern my Go Kit would be a bag of pretzels.
I am not sure just how it happens—have they been goaded into it? I don’t know. But several of these characters have broken out recently into absolute either lunacy or hatred.

You really know how to pump things up in total unreality.
Overreaction (over the top accusation) is not one of the fruit ages of Jehovah's spirit

:)))) I am slow in writing and more slower in English writing. My "weapon" and "tactic" is to be short and concise how much is possible. :)))
Anna, Arauna, TTH bombing me with responds. And i am alone, sole  :))) 
Your comment helps to redirect their thinking. Now you will be "target". :))

True, but I've watched one on TV. (Not really) My wife was born and raised Catholic, and had just tried Seventh Day Adventist, Church of God and Jehovah's Witnesses in the 5 years between leaving the Catholic church and getting baptized. My relatives on my father's side are Bible Students and Witnesses for as far back as this was possible, but they also married into families that had been Methodists, Lutheran, etc. I've seen plenty of churchiness on documentaries of various churches.
Of course you can compare them. You just have to watch for similarities to compare rather than letting the differences get in the way. You are right that you need to strip away the "pomp and ceremony" but it is pretty easy to match up the altar boys with the microphone carriers, deacons with the more mature ministerial servants, the priests and pastors with the elders, the bishops with the COBE, cardinals with the circuit overseers, the Pope and college of cardinals with the Governing Body, etc. There are dozens of other similarities, along with serious and important differences.
 
Even the article that Anna offered, where one of the important distinctions is that clergy are paid falls away when we think about how our circuit overseers (and formerly district overseers) have always been paid, and how the Governing Body and their helpers and other support services are paid from the collection of our contributions. We actually have a former Bethel elder who was "retired" from Bethel to serve in our congregation, and he is "paid" by being allowed to live in a room with his wife that is part of the KH, like a rectory.
I was speaking of what people generally believe about the range of possibilities that "clergy" can mean -- not focusing on the very things that we have used to distinguish ourselves from the worst examples of clergy. The connotation of "clergy" to a Witness is admittedly skewed by our focus on the differences. But the actual differences in the meaning of the word are not so problematic. Look at the definition of clergy that shows up on a Google search:
cler·gy /ˈklərjē/ noun: clergy; plural noun: clergies the body of all people ordained for religious duties, especially in the Christian Church. "all marriages were to be solemnized by the clergy" Whoops! After coming back to my computer and responding to Arauna, I just notice that I said the same thing as Srecko. Srecko managed to make the same point in 1/10th the number of words.

Well yes, we don't say elder "so and so" or pioneer "so and so". We say brother or sister "so and so"
We don't use those words as titles. Only as descriptions of the tasks the brother or sister does.
Here is that article in Croatian
https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/102009288