Jump to content
The World News Media

JW Insider

Member
  • Posts

    7,835
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    463

Reputation Activity

  1. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in 'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says   
    JTR: I agree with you here. If you look at the entire meeting, the word "prosecute" was used in the translation a few of the other times, even in similar contexts. Judicial prosecution was already the topic here in nearly every case discussed, but the overall topic is a wider context than the auto-translator AI looks at. The fact that the name of a minority was used in the sentence, "Jehovah's Witnesses," and that the word "Christians" was in the immediate context, this is what probably triggered the translation, "persecute" instead of "prosecute."
    Of course, this is still a very important admission as @Outta Here has said, and it's in line with what you were thinking about Putin being the one to get it straightened out, if it reaches to a high enough priority. There were several interesting admissions in the meeting, and Putin comes across as very professional, careful, knowledgeable and "wiley." He is just defensive enough to protect himself from various questionable decisions by judges, admits problems with some laws, understands some of the PR issues with the rest of the world, etc. But he also doesn't commit to overturn questionable actions, and doesn't want to give in too much, to avoid the impression, for example, that future amnesty can be counted on, based on past or current amnesty. 
  2. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in UN Compact 2018   
    If you have dyslexia when reading that sentence, it can be VERY painful.
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in THE GRAND TOTAL - The Watchtower's Brooklyn New York Property Sell-off Listed: 2004 to 2018   
    The more of this information the better!
    What a colossal task to keep this whole logistical juggernaut moving and yet still keep the preaching work, and the shepherding of the flock, to the fore!
  4. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in Peace - Can it Last?   
    Excellent and observant. And for 10 bonus points...what is the name of the dog?
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in Peace - Can it Last?   
    For the picture with the dog, my guess would be Little Rock, Arkansas, USA, since that's where Travelers Field was. Also, it says Little Rock, Ark., right under Travelers Field. (And one of the signs in the background says "Arkansas Carpet and Furniture" which existed in Little Rock, AK., at either 6th and Main, or 709-715 Main St. in Little Rock.)
  6. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in 'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says   
    The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically. After letting Bing and then Google translate, Google did a very good job overall, but this one portion appears to be better in Bing, but only for this one particular sentence that I've marked in red below.
    ------------------
    V. Putin: Thank you.
    With regard to the first of your stories about this African students got to see, of course, nonsense kakaja‑to. From what you are telling, it's just kakaja‑to nonsense.
    And, of course, need to do what you suggest, to analyze the enforcement practice. And, if necessary, make adjustments to the kakie‑to.
    B. Ryakhovskiy: For this girl to me now turned to the European Court of Justice, I have continued to ...
    Putin: I don't know what denomination it belongs, she is Christian, but there are also a lot of directions. Jehovah's witnesses, too, Christians are being persecuted, I also do not really understand. So we just need to analyze, it is necessary to do so. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.
    The Russian language original is 95% down into the page that @Outta Here provided above.
    В.Ряховский: По этой девушке ко мне сейчас обратились, для того чтобы я продолжал в Европейский Суд…
    В.Путин: Я не знаю, к какой конфессии она принадлежит, она христианка, но там тоже много направлений. Свидетели Иеговы тоже христиане, за что их преследовать, я тоже не очень понимаю. Поэтому надо просто проанализировать, надо это сделать. Я переговорю с Вячеславом Михайловичем, и попробуем это сделать.
    The key word here is преследовать, which oddly enough can mean basically "chase" and therefore it can mean both prosecute and persecute. Formally you should to add a phrase that means "judicially" or "by trial" (i.e. преследовать + в судебном порядке, or преследовать + по суду ) and it means prosecute. Without these additions, I think it really should mean persecute, especially if used with a religion or minority in the context. Therefore, it SHOULD mean persecute here, but I suspect this translation could legally be challenged as just a less formal way of meaning "prosecute." 
    In fact, if you just go to translate.bing.com and type in преследовать, you will get the following, which includes both prosecute and persecute without the formal additions:
    Translations of  "преследовать" VERB haunt преследовать, логово, мучить, обитать pursue преследовать, проводить, осуществлять, добиваться, стремиться, следуем chase чейз, погони, преследовать, преследование, догнать, гоняться, гоньбы prosecute преследовать, судебного преследования, обвинить, наказывать, уголовное преследование, сажать, осудить persecute преследовать harass преследовать, беспокоить, изводить, домогаться, докучать, запугивания stalk стебель, преследовать, ножке, черенок, плодоножки, стеблю, палочка obsessing преследовать, одержимы, увлеченно © 2018 Microsoft ------------------
    For reference, I have also added Google's translation of larger portions of the context below. Both for the original question about JWs, and the context of the later discussion where Putin evidently brings up JWs on his own, even if the particular case (of the African med student "missionary" studying in Russia) was not a JW:
    -----------the rest of this post is Google's translation of excerpts from the link that Outta Here provided: ----------
    There is also a list, for example, of organizations that also have information that they are involved in extremism and terrorism. There are 489 of them, 404 of them are Jehovah's Witnesses. I will make here an ominous pause. Many, perhaps, there are claims to Jehovah's Witnesses - they don’t transfuse blood, don’t send children to the hospital - but they certainly don’t call for violence and don’t carry it out.

    So 404 of 489 - this is it. That’s how many terrorist organizations we have in the Russian Federation. Thus, I would like to express the hope that the anti-extremist legislation will, let's say, be moderated in accordance with the requirements of society and in accordance with the real level of crime.

    Because everyone has more or less understood that these searches for pictures on social networks and the initiation of cases on this issue - this does not contribute to strengthening anything, it does not correspond to any state interests, it does not prevent any terrorist acts.

    As we can see, when, unfortunately, this kind of thing happens, these are people who did not follow these lists, who did not come into the view of law enforcement agencies, because, of course, they do not post pictures on VKontakte, they do not communicate among themselves in open communities. They coordinate their actions completely differently.

    Thank.

    V.Putin: Thank you very much.

    Ekaterina Mikhailovna, I am very pleased that the questions, rather sharp questions, were raised precisely by you - an employee of the Institute of Social Sciences under the President of the Russian Federation.

    E.Shulman: Yes, I am now twice under the President of the Russian Federation, both at the place of work and in social activities.

    V.Putin: See, everything is the same.

    And they require careful consideration, all the questions you raised.

    Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. Probably, we can, and even should at some point, be much more liberal to representatives of various religious sects, but we should not forget that our society does not consist solely of religious sects. 90 percent of the citizens of the Russian Federation, or so, consider themselves Orthodox Christians. We have three more practically traditional our religions, which the state provides assistance. We should treat the representatives of all religions in the same way - this is true, but nevertheless it is also necessary to take into account the country and the society in which we live. True, this does not mean at all that we should include representatives of religious communities in some destructive ones, not even in terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense, you need to carefully deal with it, here I agree with you.

    You always return me to the case of Ponomarev, he is probably a truly respected person. But the judge, when he made the decision, do you think I knew that he was making the decision? Of course not. But when a judge makes such decisions, he does not proceed from merit or from something else. If it were a simple citizen who few people know, even the question would not be raised. The law is the same for everyone. To close relatives could be released at parting, at the funeral, there is no other case in the law. The judge is guided by these direct instructions of the text of the law itself, that's all. There is nothing like that, there is no ambush here, there is no political motive.

    About unauthorized rallies. Let's still come back to this and see. You yourself mentioned, said about Paris. See, there are victims already affected. The fight is mainly in the center of the capital, and a state of emergency has been declared because of this. How many pogroms there are, burnt cars, shops, the losses are not only in the state, but also in people who have nothing to do with the state, they are enormous. And all this time - like a match, and everything started.

    This does not mean at all that we should not analyze our own life and not look after the law that is in place in our country. But still, we must understand the world we live in. Liberal approach to an unauthorized rally. The hard answer from the state what? Water cannons, gas, batons, hundreds of delays - hundreds, can you imagine? Don't we know that? More recently, there have been heavy events in which the Constitution of the Russian Federation was adopted in force, in conditions of growing civil war, in fact, civil war! Crowds of people with weapons ran across Moscow, stormed the Ostankino, crawled along some kind of underground facilities, communications. Regular units of the Russian army were brought into Moscow, internal troops were involved, and they still fired at each other, not understanding what was happening. Chaos! Carefully need to treat this very. Although, of course, it is necessary to analyze the conditions in which we live and the rules that govern our life, including its side, which you mentioned.

    Please, I beg you.
    ---------------- skipping to the area near the end where Putin brings up JWs on his own---------------
    If the damage was mitigated, repaid, and the antisocial act is not so serious there.

    A.Sokurov: It is the New Year and Christmas amnesty.

    Vladimir Putin: Let's think, we have Christmas every year. We must carefully approach this.

    It is necessary to finish already. I promised, otherwise I will work until three in the morning.

    Here it is, that's all. Please, I beg you.

    V. Ryakhovsky: Vladimir Vladimirovich, thank you very much.

    To be honest, this is the first time in six years, the turn has reached me.

    I have two questions, I will try to short, saving time.

    In July 2016, a federal law was passed under the title “On the adoption of additional measures to counter terrorism”, the so-called “Spring Act” among the people.

    This law amended the law on freedom of conscience. The Law on Freedom of Conscience was supplemented by a chapter on missionary activity. The definition of missionary activity is given, the procedure for its conduct is established, to the extent that, in order for a person to speak about his convictions, he must be delegated by a religious organization and have a standard document.

    The Code of Administrative Offenses introduced Article 5.26 on establishing liability. A year and a half has passed, and I would very much like to ask the initiators of this law: has the goal, which was set by the authors, been achieved? According to this law, at least one extremist was held accountable?

    Nevertheless, law enforcement agencies initiated and brought to court more than 600 administrative cases involving representatives of various religious denominations, with the possible exception of one - the most widespread. These things are as unbelievable as imagination can probably be.

    Here is just one vivid example: Nizhny Novgorod, a student, a citizen of an African country, a sixth-year student at a medical university, is a little more than a month from state examinations. She gives an interview to one of the Internet channels, talks about herself, about her family, about her childhood, about how she has been a believer since childhood, a Christian, and in Russia she also comes to church, and all this helps her in her studies .

    Two administrative cases are brought against her. The first is for violating the rules of missionary activity, she is fined, the second is for violating the goals of staying in the Russian Federation. She arrived on a missionary visa, and here she says something about her convictions. And she is appointed in the second case a fine and expulsion from the Russian Federation. Fortunately, the appellate station probably had enough intelligence: they didn’t cancel these decrees, but they postponed her expulsion until they received the diploma, in just a few months.

    Interestingly, the basis of these cases was the expert opinion, which saw in this video hidden appeals, hidden missionary activity.

    That is, you understand what's the matter? Hidden. There are no obvious signs of missionary activity. And why are they not? Yes, because it is hidden, and because of this, she was brought to justice.

    I can bring a lot of such things, because this is part of my professional interests. The Constitution has a stable notion: when the freedom of conscience is revealed, it is said about the right to impart one’s beliefs. This measure, this rule of law appears, to put it mildly, simply manifestly excessive, it does not contribute to the harmonization of interfaith relations, but, on the contrary, leads to imbalance and violation of the constitutional rights of citizens.

    Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we kindly ask you to instruct the Supreme Court to simply summarize the practice. And then there are so many accumulated of these cases that you can just draw caricatures. It just comes to ridiculous! I just brought one thing, but in fact there are a lot of them. And to raise the question of generalizing this practice on 5.26 with respect to religious organizations, and in general, probably, raise the question of the expediency, to what extent is such regulation justified. There is the concept of "spreading religious beliefs." Why else to introduce the concept of "missionary activity"?

    The second question is completely irrelevant to this. Literally the day before, I had a meeting with several businessmen who responded to your May invitation to return to the Russian Federation after the years of emigration on the so-called Titov list.

    And indeed, it was precisely by believing your word and not doubting your innocence, because those behind whom there was something, I think, would not even come at your invitation. And the fact that several people have already returned to their homeland in the hope that, while at home, they will be able to recover and protect their good name.
    And one of the first defendants in the so-called Titov list, who returned to Russia after 13 years of forced emigration in London, became a businessman from Yekaterinburg Sergey Kapchuk. I met him. You should have seen his eyes after he arrived. Just burning, shining - he came home, he came, believing your call and believing that here is true today, unlike those years when he left, justice.

    But, alas, he encountered today the same methods of investigation from which he had once escaped. He was automatically charged since 2005. After reading the materials of the case, as he explained to me, the corruption scheme in the government of the Sverdlovsk region, in which it was used, simply became clear.

    They filed applications for the interrogation of specific people, heads of individual industries, confrontations - all of this consequence closes his eyes today, and, as we understood, is ready to bring the case to court, to hang up some conditional or slightly lax sentence, order to forget this thing.

    But he did not come for this. He did not come to be given a conditional sentence, not to be released under an amnesty, but to prove that he was innocent.

    Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, kindly requested. The first is to give the General Prosecutor's Office to take over the cases of Sergei Kapchuk, and similar cases for the people who came, returned to Russia, to take control. And to you, of course, such a request, to still follow the fate of these people not until they returned, but in general, before the completion of their work.

    This case has a public outcry today. Why? Because others, those who still remain abroad today, they are closely watching the result of this business. This will be an example for them, as an urge to return to Russia too. And, fulfilling the request of Kapchuk, I just wanted to give you a short appeal from him.

    Thank you very much.

    V.Putin: Thank you.

    As for your first story about this African student, you need to look, of course, some sort of nonsense. From what you tell, it's just some kind of nonsense.

    And you need, of course, to do what you propose - to conduct an analysis of law enforcement practice. And if necessary, make some adjustments.

    V.Ryakhovsky: According to this girl, they now appealed to me, so that I would continue to the European Court ...

    V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

    K. Kabanov: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

    Dear Colleagues!

    You know, I actually, probably, in my 14 years of work, every time I hear that we have two problems: law enforcement agencies and bad laws.

    In fact, in the framework of the instructions you gave last time, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we dealt with the history of the criminalization of the teenage environment. But, as we were taught at previous duty stations, we must look deep into, look, study . . . . 
     
  7. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in 'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says   
    The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically. After letting Bing and then Google translate, Google did a very good job overall, but this one portion appears to be better in Bing, but only for this one particular sentence that I've marked in red below.
    ------------------
    V. Putin: Thank you.
    With regard to the first of your stories about this African students got to see, of course, nonsense kakaja‑to. From what you are telling, it's just kakaja‑to nonsense.
    And, of course, need to do what you suggest, to analyze the enforcement practice. And, if necessary, make adjustments to the kakie‑to.
    B. Ryakhovskiy: For this girl to me now turned to the European Court of Justice, I have continued to ...
    Putin: I don't know what denomination it belongs, she is Christian, but there are also a lot of directions. Jehovah's witnesses, too, Christians are being persecuted, I also do not really understand. So we just need to analyze, it is necessary to do so. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.
    The Russian language original is 95% down into the page that @Outta Here provided above.
    В.Ряховский: По этой девушке ко мне сейчас обратились, для того чтобы я продолжал в Европейский Суд…
    В.Путин: Я не знаю, к какой конфессии она принадлежит, она христианка, но там тоже много направлений. Свидетели Иеговы тоже христиане, за что их преследовать, я тоже не очень понимаю. Поэтому надо просто проанализировать, надо это сделать. Я переговорю с Вячеславом Михайловичем, и попробуем это сделать.
    The key word here is преследовать, which oddly enough can mean basically "chase" and therefore it can mean both prosecute and persecute. Formally you should to add a phrase that means "judicially" or "by trial" (i.e. преследовать + в судебном порядке, or преследовать + по суду ) and it means prosecute. Without these additions, I think it really should mean persecute, especially if used with a religion or minority in the context. Therefore, it SHOULD mean persecute here, but I suspect this translation could legally be challenged as just a less formal way of meaning "prosecute." 
    In fact, if you just go to translate.bing.com and type in преследовать, you will get the following, which includes both prosecute and persecute without the formal additions:
    Translations of  "преследовать" VERB haunt преследовать, логово, мучить, обитать pursue преследовать, проводить, осуществлять, добиваться, стремиться, следуем chase чейз, погони, преследовать, преследование, догнать, гоняться, гоньбы prosecute преследовать, судебного преследования, обвинить, наказывать, уголовное преследование, сажать, осудить persecute преследовать harass преследовать, беспокоить, изводить, домогаться, докучать, запугивания stalk стебель, преследовать, ножке, черенок, плодоножки, стеблю, палочка obsessing преследовать, одержимы, увлеченно © 2018 Microsoft ------------------
    For reference, I have also added Google's translation of larger portions of the context below. Both for the original question about JWs, and the context of the later discussion where Putin evidently brings up JWs on his own, even if the particular case (of the African med student "missionary" studying in Russia) was not a JW:
    -----------the rest of this post is Google's translation of excerpts from the link that Outta Here provided: ----------
    There is also a list, for example, of organizations that also have information that they are involved in extremism and terrorism. There are 489 of them, 404 of them are Jehovah's Witnesses. I will make here an ominous pause. Many, perhaps, there are claims to Jehovah's Witnesses - they don’t transfuse blood, don’t send children to the hospital - but they certainly don’t call for violence and don’t carry it out.

    So 404 of 489 - this is it. That’s how many terrorist organizations we have in the Russian Federation. Thus, I would like to express the hope that the anti-extremist legislation will, let's say, be moderated in accordance with the requirements of society and in accordance with the real level of crime.

    Because everyone has more or less understood that these searches for pictures on social networks and the initiation of cases on this issue - this does not contribute to strengthening anything, it does not correspond to any state interests, it does not prevent any terrorist acts.

    As we can see, when, unfortunately, this kind of thing happens, these are people who did not follow these lists, who did not come into the view of law enforcement agencies, because, of course, they do not post pictures on VKontakte, they do not communicate among themselves in open communities. They coordinate their actions completely differently.

    Thank.

    V.Putin: Thank you very much.

    Ekaterina Mikhailovna, I am very pleased that the questions, rather sharp questions, were raised precisely by you - an employee of the Institute of Social Sciences under the President of the Russian Federation.

    E.Shulman: Yes, I am now twice under the President of the Russian Federation, both at the place of work and in social activities.

    V.Putin: See, everything is the same.

    And they require careful consideration, all the questions you raised.

    Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. Probably, we can, and even should at some point, be much more liberal to representatives of various religious sects, but we should not forget that our society does not consist solely of religious sects. 90 percent of the citizens of the Russian Federation, or so, consider themselves Orthodox Christians. We have three more practically traditional our religions, which the state provides assistance. We should treat the representatives of all religions in the same way - this is true, but nevertheless it is also necessary to take into account the country and the society in which we live. True, this does not mean at all that we should include representatives of religious communities in some destructive ones, not even in terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense, you need to carefully deal with it, here I agree with you.

    You always return me to the case of Ponomarev, he is probably a truly respected person. But the judge, when he made the decision, do you think I knew that he was making the decision? Of course not. But when a judge makes such decisions, he does not proceed from merit or from something else. If it were a simple citizen who few people know, even the question would not be raised. The law is the same for everyone. To close relatives could be released at parting, at the funeral, there is no other case in the law. The judge is guided by these direct instructions of the text of the law itself, that's all. There is nothing like that, there is no ambush here, there is no political motive.

    About unauthorized rallies. Let's still come back to this and see. You yourself mentioned, said about Paris. See, there are victims already affected. The fight is mainly in the center of the capital, and a state of emergency has been declared because of this. How many pogroms there are, burnt cars, shops, the losses are not only in the state, but also in people who have nothing to do with the state, they are enormous. And all this time - like a match, and everything started.

    This does not mean at all that we should not analyze our own life and not look after the law that is in place in our country. But still, we must understand the world we live in. Liberal approach to an unauthorized rally. The hard answer from the state what? Water cannons, gas, batons, hundreds of delays - hundreds, can you imagine? Don't we know that? More recently, there have been heavy events in which the Constitution of the Russian Federation was adopted in force, in conditions of growing civil war, in fact, civil war! Crowds of people with weapons ran across Moscow, stormed the Ostankino, crawled along some kind of underground facilities, communications. Regular units of the Russian army were brought into Moscow, internal troops were involved, and they still fired at each other, not understanding what was happening. Chaos! Carefully need to treat this very. Although, of course, it is necessary to analyze the conditions in which we live and the rules that govern our life, including its side, which you mentioned.

    Please, I beg you.
    ---------------- skipping to the area near the end where Putin brings up JWs on his own---------------
    If the damage was mitigated, repaid, and the antisocial act is not so serious there.

    A.Sokurov: It is the New Year and Christmas amnesty.

    Vladimir Putin: Let's think, we have Christmas every year. We must carefully approach this.

    It is necessary to finish already. I promised, otherwise I will work until three in the morning.

    Here it is, that's all. Please, I beg you.

    V. Ryakhovsky: Vladimir Vladimirovich, thank you very much.

    To be honest, this is the first time in six years, the turn has reached me.

    I have two questions, I will try to short, saving time.

    In July 2016, a federal law was passed under the title “On the adoption of additional measures to counter terrorism”, the so-called “Spring Act” among the people.

    This law amended the law on freedom of conscience. The Law on Freedom of Conscience was supplemented by a chapter on missionary activity. The definition of missionary activity is given, the procedure for its conduct is established, to the extent that, in order for a person to speak about his convictions, he must be delegated by a religious organization and have a standard document.

    The Code of Administrative Offenses introduced Article 5.26 on establishing liability. A year and a half has passed, and I would very much like to ask the initiators of this law: has the goal, which was set by the authors, been achieved? According to this law, at least one extremist was held accountable?

    Nevertheless, law enforcement agencies initiated and brought to court more than 600 administrative cases involving representatives of various religious denominations, with the possible exception of one - the most widespread. These things are as unbelievable as imagination can probably be.

    Here is just one vivid example: Nizhny Novgorod, a student, a citizen of an African country, a sixth-year student at a medical university, is a little more than a month from state examinations. She gives an interview to one of the Internet channels, talks about herself, about her family, about her childhood, about how she has been a believer since childhood, a Christian, and in Russia she also comes to church, and all this helps her in her studies .

    Two administrative cases are brought against her. The first is for violating the rules of missionary activity, she is fined, the second is for violating the goals of staying in the Russian Federation. She arrived on a missionary visa, and here she says something about her convictions. And she is appointed in the second case a fine and expulsion from the Russian Federation. Fortunately, the appellate station probably had enough intelligence: they didn’t cancel these decrees, but they postponed her expulsion until they received the diploma, in just a few months.

    Interestingly, the basis of these cases was the expert opinion, which saw in this video hidden appeals, hidden missionary activity.

    That is, you understand what's the matter? Hidden. There are no obvious signs of missionary activity. And why are they not? Yes, because it is hidden, and because of this, she was brought to justice.

    I can bring a lot of such things, because this is part of my professional interests. The Constitution has a stable notion: when the freedom of conscience is revealed, it is said about the right to impart one’s beliefs. This measure, this rule of law appears, to put it mildly, simply manifestly excessive, it does not contribute to the harmonization of interfaith relations, but, on the contrary, leads to imbalance and violation of the constitutional rights of citizens.

    Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we kindly ask you to instruct the Supreme Court to simply summarize the practice. And then there are so many accumulated of these cases that you can just draw caricatures. It just comes to ridiculous! I just brought one thing, but in fact there are a lot of them. And to raise the question of generalizing this practice on 5.26 with respect to religious organizations, and in general, probably, raise the question of the expediency, to what extent is such regulation justified. There is the concept of "spreading religious beliefs." Why else to introduce the concept of "missionary activity"?

    The second question is completely irrelevant to this. Literally the day before, I had a meeting with several businessmen who responded to your May invitation to return to the Russian Federation after the years of emigration on the so-called Titov list.

    And indeed, it was precisely by believing your word and not doubting your innocence, because those behind whom there was something, I think, would not even come at your invitation. And the fact that several people have already returned to their homeland in the hope that, while at home, they will be able to recover and protect their good name.
    And one of the first defendants in the so-called Titov list, who returned to Russia after 13 years of forced emigration in London, became a businessman from Yekaterinburg Sergey Kapchuk. I met him. You should have seen his eyes after he arrived. Just burning, shining - he came home, he came, believing your call and believing that here is true today, unlike those years when he left, justice.

    But, alas, he encountered today the same methods of investigation from which he had once escaped. He was automatically charged since 2005. After reading the materials of the case, as he explained to me, the corruption scheme in the government of the Sverdlovsk region, in which it was used, simply became clear.

    They filed applications for the interrogation of specific people, heads of individual industries, confrontations - all of this consequence closes his eyes today, and, as we understood, is ready to bring the case to court, to hang up some conditional or slightly lax sentence, order to forget this thing.

    But he did not come for this. He did not come to be given a conditional sentence, not to be released under an amnesty, but to prove that he was innocent.

    Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, kindly requested. The first is to give the General Prosecutor's Office to take over the cases of Sergei Kapchuk, and similar cases for the people who came, returned to Russia, to take control. And to you, of course, such a request, to still follow the fate of these people not until they returned, but in general, before the completion of their work.

    This case has a public outcry today. Why? Because others, those who still remain abroad today, they are closely watching the result of this business. This will be an example for them, as an urge to return to Russia too. And, fulfilling the request of Kapchuk, I just wanted to give you a short appeal from him.

    Thank you very much.

    V.Putin: Thank you.

    As for your first story about this African student, you need to look, of course, some sort of nonsense. From what you tell, it's just some kind of nonsense.

    And you need, of course, to do what you propose - to conduct an analysis of law enforcement practice. And if necessary, make some adjustments.

    V.Ryakhovsky: According to this girl, they now appealed to me, so that I would continue to the European Court ...

    V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

    K. Kabanov: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

    Dear Colleagues!

    You know, I actually, probably, in my 14 years of work, every time I hear that we have two problems: law enforcement agencies and bad laws.

    In fact, in the framework of the instructions you gave last time, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we dealt with the history of the criminalization of the teenage environment. But, as we were taught at previous duty stations, we must look deep into, look, study . . . . 
     
  8. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Next prophecy to get its fulfillment   
    @Kosonen If we could say we were still waiting for specific prophetic events to occur in advance of the final judgment at Armageddon, then we would be saying that the Bible is lying. The Bible says that this "day" will come as a complete surprise, as a thief in the night. That final parousia/visitation/revelation/manifestation/synteleia/judgment --that every eye will see--  will come as a complete surprise, effectively without warning to Christians or the rest of the world. It  just as the final days of Sodom and Gomorrah came upon the men, women and children of that day without any warning. The initial prophecy of Matthew 24, relates to both Daniel and Revelation, and was about the overall results to the nation of Israel for their the rejection of Christ. (rejecting his  ministry, rejection of his life [clamoring for Roman execution],  and rejection of his resurrection.) At any point after that "parousia" upon Jerusalem and Judea, the final parousia upon the world could come at any time, "immediately." There would be know secret prophecies to figure out because that day (parousia, synteleia, judgment, destruction, revelation, manifestation) would be a surprise; it would appear suddenly and unmistakably, like lightning.
    (Luke 17:24-30) . . .For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day. 25 First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation. . . . 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed. (Matthew 24:36-44) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it. The only warning we have is that it WILL happen, and this day is closer every day. We will not be able to look at signs and prophecies to figure out anything about the time period: the day and hour, or the "times and seasons."
    (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. Rather than use these scriptures only as an excuse as to why we continue to make the same mistakes the early disciples made, we should learn the actual lesson they offer. That we cannot know anything more about the times and seasons.
    Notice that in Luke's account, there is only ONE thing that would be a true prior sign before "THE SIGN" that would finally and "immediately" appear in heaven. That was "(Luke 21:25) First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation." Similarly, Jesus said that the "sign of Jonah" is all that would be given to that generation as a warning. That was also the same sign of Jesus rejection (execution and resurrection). It was THAT sign of Jonah (picturing Christ's ministry, death, and resurrection) that fulfilled the crushing of the final world power. It's what finally sent Satan hurtling from his position in heaven down to the earth, so that all of us have a period of tribulation in this world due to Satan:
    (Luke 10:18) 18 At that he said to them: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven." (John 12:31-33) 31 Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And yet I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all sorts of men to myself.” 33 This he was really saying to indicate what sort of death he was about to die.
    (John 16:33) 33 I have said these things to you so that by means of me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation, but take courage! I have conquered the world.”
    We can quickly test the inspired utterances, and know if they originate with God. We know it is not scriptural if a person tries to use prophetic time periods to identify the times and seasons we are living in, especially if they are looking to some current or future event as the beginning of a time period so they can say: "The time is at hand."
    (Luke 21:8) . . .He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ . . . (1 John 4:1) . . .Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. If a person, or even an entire religion tries to present itself as having special knowledge of the times and seasons, we can know immediately that they have overstepped, and therefore have become unfaithful and indiscreet. After all, Paul said:
    (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) 2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. Paul lived at a time when there really was another fulfillment of prophecy on its way, prior to 70 C.E. But he also knew that Jesus had said that people would be eating and drinking and going about their lives so that the end would be a surprise to them, and therefore he knew that watching for specific signs (such as wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilence, etc.) could not help them foretell the one SIGN that Jesus responded to in his answer to Matthew 24:3. But notice that Paul did use this one prediction about a "man" of lawlessness, an "apostasy"  just as Jesus had predicted in Matthew 24:
    Matthew 24:11,12, Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. . . . 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned you. John, who significantly was likely writing after the year 70, says that this was already fulfilled, and this is how Christians knew they were already in the "last days" the "last hour":
    (1 John 2:18) 18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. So it's true that all these ideas have a counterpart in our own day, just as they have had a counterpart in all of history since the first-century congregation. We have been living among these "deluding influences" ever since Satan was cast down through Christ's death in the first century.
    (2 Thessalonians 2:6-9) 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders. (Hebrews 2:14, 15) 14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, 15 and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death. The point is to keep conquering Satan down to our last breath in this system, which is only possible due to what Jesus has already conquered. In his day, Jesus also conquered all governments and by taking out of them a government, a kingdom of its own.
    (Colossians 1:13) . . .He rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, So it should be very possible to already see the spiritual fulfillment of Jesus conquering the world, from way back in the time of the Roman empire. There will be a physical fulfillment against all governments, too, but we need not look to try to discover the time of any specific physical fulfillment against a future manifestation of Rome or other bestial world powers. When Jesus and the first century congregation conquered Rome, that was all the prophetic fulfillment needed to fulfill all the time-related prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. We are not to look to any future time periods because looking to discover any time related fulfillments would negate the idea that the end comes as a thief in the night.
    (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
  9. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Space Merchant in Next prophecy to get its fulfillment   
    @Kosonen The news clip is of the MSM. ISIS has and always will be bothering the Syrians regardless of what the Americans are doing. It should be a clue to you and many as to the reason why they do not give you the number of US soldiers in Syria. The Americans did little themselves because they were helping, so to speak, a terrorist front who were among the rebels.
    That being said, no one will be forgetting that this is just another repeat of history, as it was in Bush's day and in Obama's day, moreover, US allies, Kurds, care nothing more than to take up land for themselves, reasons why they allow people, even Christians to be defiled by ISIS militants.
     
    The biggest problem right now is Israel, for they do not like the idea of Iranians being in Syria, and this pull out will only anger them.
     
    Do not always believe what the MSM is telling you, otherwise you will end up as speaking of it as though it is the truth.
  10. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from admin in UN Compact 2018   
    I know that we almost got a discussion going about this, but most of the Western propaganda about famines under Russian communism were originally made up as Nazi propaganda. The United States actually hired some of the Nazi propagandists after the war. Because, historically, so many officials in United States have had such a fear of communism, or even socialism since the 1800's, it was useful and necessary to make up lies about the so-called purposeful state-sponsored starvation(s) and accidental state-induced famines through errors. Once the propaganda had taken root, the next stage of propaganda was to pump up the number of victims by multiplying originally claimed numbers into the 1,000s, then 10,000s, then millions. For China, some "experts" have decided they can literally get away with making up numbers on the order of hundreds of millions.
    Most Americans and other Westerners never think to question the propaganda. Most Westerners and even anti-communists in Russia since Yeltsin have been happy to go along with the old Nazi sponsored propaganda. It either fits a strongly-entrenched world view, or it helps to strengthen a grip on the current power structure.
    Here is just an overview of what actually happened with reference to the "famines under communism."
    RUSSIA
    No one doubts that there were famines, it is a good part of what led to the 1917 revolution in the first place, because the wealth of the czars was compared with the induced shortages among the commoners. It was similar to the French revolution of the late 1780's/1790's when the Queen was supposed to have said "Let them eat cake." A good representation of the way that the governments "induced" such famines can be found especially in the last season of the PBS series "Poldark" set in the late 1700's and early 1800's. In that presentation, the starving miners and fishermen watched their landowners and merchants illegally sell local grain and food to places like Portugal. They were not punished for the illegal actions, but if a starving commoner rioted in response he could be executed by hanging. These conditions were similar to the conditions in czarist Russia.
    So after communism in 1917, there were still terrible conditions, but the famines were finally ending under Lenin's "collectivization." Under Stalin, famines were completely eliminated after the 1933 famine. The only exception was the Nazi-induced famines from the willful German destruction of 27 million Russian lives along with their means of production brought back a famine that lasted even for a time after WW2. It's obviously ludicrous to try to blame the Nazi induced destruction on communism but, believe it or not, some "experts" have done this very thing.
    CHINA
    China, once a very poor country with a very high percentage of poverty, suffered famine especially in the 1960's. To an extent agricultural policy contributed. (e.g., the "Three Pests Campaign.") But some of these policies only lasted for a short period and were scrapped when found to be not working. But these mistakes weren't the explanation for the famines, nor for the high number of deaths. A full one-third of China's arable land was destroyed by droughts in the north. And for a while during this time, extreme flooding and storms hit the south. Entire rivers had dried up completely. India suffered a famine at the same time killing millions, but the propagandists care very little about the famine in India, because it can't be blamed on communism.
    Currently, who would have thought that it would be communism in China that would make it a global economic competitor? Who would have thought that it would be communism in China that has created more economic stability, economic growth, more stable (and better) unemployment numbers, lower incarceration rates, with huge gains in bringing a higher percentage of people out of poverty. It's still a developing country, of course, and a lot is still left to the global market, making it sensitive to global problems. Yet, in a trade war between China and the US, the US is actually being hurt worse, so far.
    Capitalism has made a lot of dumb decisions, too, with instability and crisis actually built into its economic foundations. We have been taught to see regular recessions, depressions, and even financial collapse of large parts of the economy as just "the old normal." Our economists try to present the rules of capitalism, and "free market" as stable. Someone showed me their notes from a recent class at Harvard taught by a presidential economics advisor where he showed a smooth graph of economic growth/strength/stability throughout American History. When asked about 2008, and 1929, and 1876, etc., he said "these are just anomalies that we can ignore for the purposes of understanding the foundations of our economic system." In fact, it's just the opposite: these so-called anomalies (crisis/corrections) are so much a part of the system, that we would be going through famines here and now if it weren't for a counteracting, bullying military and foreign policy program that can plunder other nations for "American interests."
    I hope you'll understand that this is no defense of communism or any other form of human government. It's just that we have been led to believe a lot of what we believe because propaganda and lies are a very important part of the governmental apparatus. Communist governments must also lie about Western and capitalist powers, too.
  11. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in United Airlines drags out new campaign, solving 'Overbooked Flights'!   
    That's what happens when you don't "volunteer" to give up a seat on an overbooked flight. They randomly pick someone to get literally pulled off the plane. Yet, the airlines overbook on purpose, knowing that they almost never get 100% to show up, at which point they can usually accommodate a few stand-by travelers to fill up the plane.
    I have been on many planes where an attendant asked for volunteers to get off the plane for the next flight home (often the next day), and it usually comes with an offer for a local hotel, a couple of meal vouchers, and a free round-trip flight to be used later in the year. Traveling alone for business, I often took them up on it, since I was always reimbursed anyway and didn't have to give the extra ticket back to the company. 
    If the flight is having trouble finding volunteers, the usual way is to just up the offer, like $100 plus all of the above, then $200 plus all of the above. Someone always volunteers. It's cheaper than losing your brand reputation!
  12. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in UN Compact 2018   
    I know that we almost got a discussion going about this, but most of the Western propaganda about famines under Russian communism were originally made up as Nazi propaganda. The United States actually hired some of the Nazi propagandists after the war. Because, historically, so many officials in United States have had such a fear of communism, or even socialism since the 1800's, it was useful and necessary to make up lies about the so-called purposeful state-sponsored starvation(s) and accidental state-induced famines through errors. Once the propaganda had taken root, the next stage of propaganda was to pump up the number of victims by multiplying originally claimed numbers into the 1,000s, then 10,000s, then millions. For China, some "experts" have decided they can literally get away with making up numbers on the order of hundreds of millions.
    Most Americans and other Westerners never think to question the propaganda. Most Westerners and even anti-communists in Russia since Yeltsin have been happy to go along with the old Nazi sponsored propaganda. It either fits a strongly-entrenched world view, or it helps to strengthen a grip on the current power structure.
    Here is just an overview of what actually happened with reference to the "famines under communism."
    RUSSIA
    No one doubts that there were famines, it is a good part of what led to the 1917 revolution in the first place, because the wealth of the czars was compared with the induced shortages among the commoners. It was similar to the French revolution of the late 1780's/1790's when the Queen was supposed to have said "Let them eat cake." A good representation of the way that the governments "induced" such famines can be found especially in the last season of the PBS series "Poldark" set in the late 1700's and early 1800's. In that presentation, the starving miners and fishermen watched their landowners and merchants illegally sell local grain and food to places like Portugal. They were not punished for the illegal actions, but if a starving commoner rioted in response he could be executed by hanging. These conditions were similar to the conditions in czarist Russia.
    So after communism in 1917, there were still terrible conditions, but the famines were finally ending under Lenin's "collectivization." Under Stalin, famines were completely eliminated after the 1933 famine. The only exception was the Nazi-induced famines from the willful German destruction of 27 million Russian lives along with their means of production brought back a famine that lasted even for a time after WW2. It's obviously ludicrous to try to blame the Nazi induced destruction on communism but, believe it or not, some "experts" have done this very thing.
    CHINA
    China, once a very poor country with a very high percentage of poverty, suffered famine especially in the 1960's. To an extent agricultural policy contributed. (e.g., the "Three Pests Campaign.") But some of these policies only lasted for a short period and were scrapped when found to be not working. But these mistakes weren't the explanation for the famines, nor for the high number of deaths. A full one-third of China's arable land was destroyed by droughts in the north. And for a while during this time, extreme flooding and storms hit the south. Entire rivers had dried up completely. India suffered a famine at the same time killing millions, but the propagandists care very little about the famine in India, because it can't be blamed on communism.
    Currently, who would have thought that it would be communism in China that would make it a global economic competitor? Who would have thought that it would be communism in China that has created more economic stability, economic growth, more stable (and better) unemployment numbers, lower incarceration rates, with huge gains in bringing a higher percentage of people out of poverty. It's still a developing country, of course, and a lot is still left to the global market, making it sensitive to global problems. Yet, in a trade war between China and the US, the US is actually being hurt worse, so far.
    Capitalism has made a lot of dumb decisions, too, with instability and crisis actually built into its economic foundations. We have been taught to see regular recessions, depressions, and even financial collapse of large parts of the economy as just "the old normal." Our economists try to present the rules of capitalism, and "free market" as stable. Someone showed me their notes from a recent class at Harvard taught by a presidential economics advisor where he showed a smooth graph of economic growth/strength/stability throughout American History. When asked about 2008, and 1929, and 1876, etc., he said "these are just anomalies that we can ignore for the purposes of understanding the foundations of our economic system." In fact, it's just the opposite: these so-called anomalies (crisis/corrections) are so much a part of the system, that we would be going through famines here and now if it weren't for a counteracting, bullying military and foreign policy program that can plunder other nations for "American interests."
    I hope you'll understand that this is no defense of communism or any other form of human government. It's just that we have been led to believe a lot of what we believe because propaganda and lies are a very important part of the governmental apparatus. Communist governments must also lie about Western and capitalist powers, too.
  13. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to indagator in New biblical manuscript just published   
    Yesterday the final (4th) installment of the 2018 volume of Journal of Biblical Literature was published. Among the articles in it is a new manuscript of the Gospel of John, dating to the third to fourth centuries. The manuscript is scrappy, as these things often are, a few verses from the end of chapter 1 and the beginning of chapter 2. On the back is a fragment of an unknown early Christian text. An rare instance of the word "God" in Greek, not in nomen sacrum form, but fully written out is one of the interesting findings in it.
    For those interested in reading the article, here it is.
     
     
    Willoughby John-JBL 2018.4.pdf
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Jehovah's Witnesses Tax Exemption May Have Cost City $368M, Critics Say   
    You can sue someone for ANYTHING.
    Winning is quite another thing.
    The WTB&TS, in anything that involves money, will ignore Justice, and appeal, and appeal, and appeal until the Plaintiffs are bankrupt.
    Here is how tax exempt religious organizations are defined (Please expand the video to full size, and turn up your speakers ...):

    Televangelists_ Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO).mp4
  15. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Arauna in An interesting take on politics, conspiracies, and prophecies   
    Known Activities     0.0% Unknown Activities      100% And here is the breakdown of activity that goes on in the really, really dark web:
  16. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in An interesting take on politics, conspiracies, and prophecies   
    Known Activities     0.0% Unknown Activities      100% And here is the breakdown of activity that goes on in the really, really dark web:
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Si l'un de vos amis les plus chers   
    The English article in the May 1, 1989 Watchtower put it like this:
    *** w89 5/1 pp. 25-26 par. 13 What The Love of God Means ***
    13 If your dearest friend were executed on false charges, would you make an image of the instrument of execution (say a hangman’s noose or an electric chair or the rifle of a firing squad) and then kiss that replica, burn candles before it, or wear it around your neck as a sacred ornament? That would be unthinkable. So, too, with the adoration of the cross. This is a pretty good argument, but there are people who actually will make graffiti and tatoos that include a picture of the instrument of death as a way to commemorate the untimely or wrongful death of a loved one. There are other points that weaken this argument too.
    One of them is the fact that --even in the Bible-- when persons were executed, Jehovah wanted a picture (image, or replica) of the instrument of execution made and displayed. In fact the replica of the instrument of death was put on a pole, and people were asked to look at it for salvation from Jehovah.
    The real problem isn't the shape or exact definition of the instrument of death, or the fact that someone might have a picture of it to remind them of Jehovah's salvation. We have many pictures of Jesus on the instrument of execution, and these pictures are intended to remind us of Jehovah's salvation that came through that instrumentality.
    The problem comes from looking at these images and giving too much importance to the physical picture, or object, or replica and thinking that there is some inherent value in the physical object. That's idolatry.
    In fact, the very instrument of execution of which Jehovah wanted a replica made (and put on a pole) began to be seen as an object for idolatry. It was later destroyed. (Num 21:6-9; 2 Kings 18:4)
  18. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in What should I gift a new born of Jehovah's Witnesses?   
    Well.... at our Kingdom Hall, we used to have attached to the walls in both the restrooms fold-down "Baby Changing Tables".
    I went in, and one of the tables had been opened, and was  down, and was ready for a baby to change.
    I stuck a yellow Post-It-Note (which I sometimes carry) on the table surface and closed it back up.
    The note read, in large print:
    "Baby changing table --- take a baby ... leave a baby".
    Soon afterwards, they removed both changing tables.
  19. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Gerrit Loesch Condemns the UN in Hong Kong (clip)   
    How and where was this information from @Witness debunked? I thought that some of the claims had been exaggerated, but this was just my opinion. I also saw an attempt to debunk these claims that was little more than a collection of opinions.
    I assume then that you have the research?
  20. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in What should I gift a new born of Jehovah's Witnesses?   
    @Nicole, I couldn't help but "accidentally" read this as:
    "What? Should I gift a newborn of Jehovah's Witnesses?"
    I think we should not be giving away newborn JW's as gifts. It's just not Scriptural:
    (Micah 6:7) . . .Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, With tens of thousands of torrents of oil? Will I give my firstborn son. . .?
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in Watch your children. (JW Fork)   
    This is the ideal procedure. I have never been able to think of an alternative. 
  22. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in GOG = GOOGLE = אֶל־גֹּוג   
    Of course, I don't really believe this in the slightest. But I thought I would put it out here just to raise some interest in the actual meaning of Gog and Magog.
    I looked on Google and could not find any places where anyone had made the connection yet between GOOGLE and GOG. This surprised me, because in Hebrew the verse at Ezekiel 38:2 actually says the following in the Masoretic text:
    See it here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eze/38/2/t_conc_840002
      בֶּן־אָדָם שִׂים פָּנֶיךָ אֶל־גֹּוג אֶרֶץ הַמָּגֹוג נְשִׂיא רֹאשׁ מֶשֶׁךְ וְתֻבָל וְהִנָּבֵא עָלָֽיו׃
    אֶל־גֹּוג means when transliterated EL-GOG.
    But the O between the two G's is actually a 'vav' which when used as a vowel (as it is here) is not just used for O, but also for U, pronounced OO. Therefore:
    אֶל־גֹּוג can also be transliterated as EL-GOOG.
    Transliterated left to right as it appears on paper, this is אֶל־גֹּוג or GOOG-LE.
    Quite a coincidence for a word that has a curious prophetic meaning in Scripture, and a word that is so ubiquitous on the Internet that it transcends translation. It is a trademark, a mark of that wild, beastly thing we call the Internet.
    Of course, that particular "wild beast" connection has already been done:

  23. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Space Merchant in GOG = GOOGLE = אֶל־גֹּוג   
    Of course, I don't really believe this in the slightest. But I thought I would put it out here just to raise some interest in the actual meaning of Gog and Magog.
    I looked on Google and could not find any places where anyone had made the connection yet between GOOGLE and GOG. This surprised me, because in Hebrew the verse at Ezekiel 38:2 actually says the following in the Masoretic text:
    See it here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eze/38/2/t_conc_840002
      בֶּן־אָדָם שִׂים פָּנֶיךָ אֶל־גֹּוג אֶרֶץ הַמָּגֹוג נְשִׂיא רֹאשׁ מֶשֶׁךְ וְתֻבָל וְהִנָּבֵא עָלָֽיו׃
    אֶל־גֹּוג means when transliterated EL-GOG.
    But the O between the two G's is actually a 'vav' which when used as a vowel (as it is here) is not just used for O, but also for U, pronounced OO. Therefore:
    אֶל־גֹּוג can also be transliterated as EL-GOOG.
    Transliterated left to right as it appears on paper, this is אֶל־גֹּוג or GOOG-LE.
    Quite a coincidence for a word that has a curious prophetic meaning in Scripture, and a word that is so ubiquitous on the Internet that it transcends translation. It is a trademark, a mark of that wild, beastly thing we call the Internet.
    Of course, that particular "wild beast" connection has already been done:

  24. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Witness in GOG = GOOGLE = אֶל־גֹּוג   
    Interesting theory, but somehow I don’t think Google will accomplish conquering the saints. 😐
     
    "The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.  
     It was given power to wage war against God’s saints and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
    Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 
    The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 
    This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666."
     
    Rev 13:1,7,11,15,18
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Equivocation in GOG = GOOGLE = אֶל־גֹּוג   
    @JW Insider For some years not too many people trust Google. And those that use it tend to be very limited on what Google ask of them compared to others who allow Google to see their videos, pictures, financial info, card info, and a list of other things.
     
    Google now has AI technology that records data like Alexa. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.