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JW Insider

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  1. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from AllenSmith34 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Allen, I noticed that the IP address for "Gray Reformer" did indeed resolve to Canada, but only up until today. As of today it no longer resolves to Canada but to some other place. Just thought you might like to know that.
  2. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    I never said it was for a misguided purpose. I can't say I really agree with the purpose, but that was not a concern of mine at the time. My question was more about whether the book would be re-set (in new molten lead linotype) or whether it would be redone for offset printing, and perhaps even an upgrade to the artwork. Also, we had a set of proofreading changes that were not exactly the kind that that the proofreading department could just fix without permission. (And this has an expensive trickle-down effect on the other language editions.) They would be tied in with editorial decisions.
    A few month later, for the updated "Truth" book (1968 edition vs the new 1981 edition), several references to 1975 and the probable imminent end in the 1970's, had to be removed and replaced with new content, but this was a more obvious editorial decision, not a proofreading decision.)
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Many sincere brothers now are quick to defend the mistakes of the past by saying that the number of little ones who were stumbled was actually a good thing. We've seem multiple comments on this forum that make that claim. As the misguided logic goes, with 1975, for example, it was a kind of test that only stumbled those who were serving Jehovah with a date in mind.
    To be fair, I think all this talk about the importance of obedience to men is a mistake. It is not hooked to anything so tangible as a calendar date so fewer people will be stumbled outright. But more people will be disheartened over time without being able to put their finger on exactly why. In my opinion it will be because they probably anticipated that association with fellow Witnesses would continue to enhance their love for Jehovah God and Jesus Christ in an overwhelmingly positive, uplifting, encouraging and heartwarming way.
    In this case, perhaps the brothers in the lead feel that they need to cover all the bases, and prepare us for unknown possibilities. The problem, in my opinion, is that this emphasis on the importance of obedience to men has now been associated (e.g., summer conventions) with a kind of future "fear-mongering" about the conditions we can expect during the great tribulation. It creates an even heavier load by making us overly concerned about the next day, when we would prefer to think that seeking first the Kingdom would have freed us from such anxiety, throwing our burden upon Jehovah, knowing that Christ's load is light, and his yoke is kind.
    (Matthew 6:33, 34) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. 34 So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles. But this makes it appear to serve the exact same purpose as 1975. This time, by associating these unspecified ways in which we will need to show obedience to men with a certain level of fear-mongering about the great tribulation, we will pay more than the usual attention to men. It should have the effect of ratcheting up the activity and anticipation by making the end seem even more imminent.
    It reminds me of an experience at Bethel when I once had an opportunity to question Brother Franz about his plan to have us study a 1973 book a second time in 1981.
    *** km 11/80 pp. 1-3 par. 5 Part I—Congregation Meetings ***
    CONGREGATION BOOK STUDY: In January we will start studying the book God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached. This 416-page book, published in 1973, contains vital information that is even more apropos now than when it was first released. Think of the hundreds of thousands of new ones who have been baptized since it was first published. My question was about whether we needed a new edition to change some inaccuracies, or whether it would go into print using the old press plates. His response was basically that we needed no update to it because "this is what the publishers need right now." [The book was basically a history of the Watchtower Society wedged into what are now half-obsolete explanations of Matthew 25.] But his idea was that it would somehow make people appreciate the Society, its place in our time, and therefore raise the level of activity.
    So ultimately I think that the pendulum will swing the other way again, and there will be a kind of retraction of this method of making the end seem so imminent as a way to raise activity levels. The Bible indicates that this method can backfire.
    (Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,. . . Langston Hughes agreed:
    *** g94 5/22 p. 27 Put Humor Into Your Life ***
    Poet Langston Hughes once wrote: “Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you.” Oh wait, not that one, but his famous one: "What happens to a dream deferred?"
    Of course, those who become disheartened (over the current emphasis) will likely be "chalked up to" the fact that this served as a test to get rid of those who were not worthy. For most, including myself, the overall context of these "changes" is not as bad as I just represented it, since the overall point is not to fear men, but to expect Jehovah to come to our aid when the trouble seems completely overwhelming. But unfortunately, I fear that even the perceived combination of emphasis on "obedience to men" and "fear-mongering" will combine to create a new kind of burden that will not appear to reflect the true spirit of Christianity. 
  4. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Luke is also the one who gives extra attention to women and women's concerns. The ability to empathize with women has made some think that the author of Luke actually was a woman.
    That said, it's not quite true what you said. I include things like "It's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, the 2-by-4 in your own eye, etc. (See  Mark/Matt and Matt) The exaggerated imagery gets attention. 
  5. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    True. And in spite of the seriousness of the overall message, several of Jesus illustrations reach a level we might even call "comedy."
  6. Upvote
  7. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Wanted / McLean was a Jehovah's Witness and found his sexual assault victims through people he met in at the Kingdom Hall / Armed and extremely dangerous.   
    Yes. But I'll tell you the real problem I have with manipulating information. And I'm not saying you are the source of the manipulation. First of all, it's no longer "truth" in the most appropriate sense. If something purports to be from a specific source, then anyone who changes that source is putting words in the mouth of someone else. It's therefore the same as a misquote. Since it has very similar meaning, it's more of a paraphrase, but even a paraphrase should identify itself as such.
    In the long run, it often weakens the impact of information even when people think it strengthens the impact. Imagine what would happen if a person has excellent information about some mistakes the Watch Tower Society was making. Imagine that some of these, if taken seriously by the WTS, could result in fairness and justice for thousands of people who are now being treated inconsistently and unjustly. There were persons who publicly pointed out the inconsistency between the WTS political stance in Malawi vs. Mexico, for example. But by pointing it out, the WTS may have taken quicker steps to fix the problem they had created in Mexico. And in many other countries around the world, thousands were being unjustly imprisoned for the specific choices they were told that they could and could not conscientiously take with respect to alternative civil service. They, the GB, had already decided that it wasn't that important or even Biblical to hold onto the old traditional practice, and that a change could happen as soon as they found the time to vote on it again. But it was put off for a couple of more years, until a very public reminder was published in an infamous book by an ex-JW. In the meantime, during the delay, hundreds more JWs were unjustly imprisoned, but as soon as the GB voted again, the problem was taken care of just as the ex-JW had said. So what would have happened if that particular ex-JW had a reputation for manipulating information. Obviously, it would have been easy to ignore what he said, and just say that it was more lies from ex-JW apostates. Information can have value no matter where it comes from. Why weaken the value with manipulation?
    Also, in the specific case above where some JW-focused information was added, it came across as both pejorative and smart-aleck. Even flippant in the sense of borrowing slightly from the advertising slogan: "Coming to a theater near you!" This gives the impression that whoever wrote it wanted to "stick it" to JWs in particular. This can "back-fire" having a devaluing effect on the value of the information. It is useful to know that there may now be up to SEVENTEEN different victims and that one of them was abused perhaps 100 times. This is important information. But a lot of JWs might look at this poster and say:
    "Look how we are being picked on talking about "Kingdom Halls" like that. Look how they are going after us unfairly. Look how they focus on Kingdom Halls. I wonder if they would say the same about using churches as a hiding place to find sanctuary." Maybe they would; I don't know. But I do know that everyone has a certain amount of defensiveness that is natural for people of the same "tribe." Our tribe is our worldwide organization, and many Witnesses are quick to defend and grasp at straws to do so. Don't make up evidence. The real evidence is all people need.
    (See updated news release on this same criminal here: https://www.usmarshals.gov/news/chron/2009/122909.htm )
  8. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Alzasior Lutor in Ben Franklin Gets Jilted and Flip-Flopping on the Resurection   
    Some good points:
    *** w61 11/15 p. 704 Questions From Readers ***
    In the resurrection of the “other sheep” on earth, no former married person will have occasion to envy another former married person, as would be the case if this latter one got back his former marriage mate who had remained single, whereas the envious marriage mate does not get back his former partner because this partner remarried and survived Armageddon with his new marriage mate. What the resurrection promises men is, not remarriage, but reliving, and this under God’s kingdom by Christ. Is that not something satisfying? Has anyone a right to demand more through Christ’s sacrifice? Christ died for you, not to marry, but to live! Let us not be swayed or overcome by sentimentalism or emotionalism. Of course, some of these types of questions ended up pushing the idea that the Greek Scriptures were written only to the anointed. This is not a point of emphasis any more. More reasonable answers and non-dogmatism are always welcome, especially when we are willing to humbly admit that we just don't have all the answers.
  9. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from DespicableME in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    I never said it was for a misguided purpose. I can't say I really agree with the purpose, but that was not a concern of mine at the time. My question was more about whether the book would be re-set (in new molten lead linotype) or whether it would be redone for offset printing, and perhaps even an upgrade to the artwork. Also, we had a set of proofreading changes that were not exactly the kind that that the proofreading department could just fix without permission. (And this has an expensive trickle-down effect on the other language editions.) They would be tied in with editorial decisions.
    A few month later, for the updated "Truth" book (1968 edition vs the new 1981 edition), several references to 1975 and the probable imminent end in the 1970's, had to be removed and replaced with new content, but this was a more obvious editorial decision, not a proofreading decision.)
  10. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Many sincere brothers now are quick to defend the mistakes of the past by saying that the number of little ones who were stumbled was actually a good thing. We've seem multiple comments on this forum that make that claim. As the misguided logic goes, with 1975, for example, it was a kind of test that only stumbled those who were serving Jehovah with a date in mind.
    To be fair, I think all this talk about the importance of obedience to men is a mistake. It is not hooked to anything so tangible as a calendar date so fewer people will be stumbled outright. But more people will be disheartened over time without being able to put their finger on exactly why. In my opinion it will be because they probably anticipated that association with fellow Witnesses would continue to enhance their love for Jehovah God and Jesus Christ in an overwhelmingly positive, uplifting, encouraging and heartwarming way.
    In this case, perhaps the brothers in the lead feel that they need to cover all the bases, and prepare us for unknown possibilities. The problem, in my opinion, is that this emphasis on the importance of obedience to men has now been associated (e.g., summer conventions) with a kind of future "fear-mongering" about the conditions we can expect during the great tribulation. It creates an even heavier load by making us overly concerned about the next day, when we would prefer to think that seeking first the Kingdom would have freed us from such anxiety, throwing our burden upon Jehovah, knowing that Christ's load is light, and his yoke is kind.
    (Matthew 6:33, 34) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. 34 So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles. But this makes it appear to serve the exact same purpose as 1975. This time, by associating these unspecified ways in which we will need to show obedience to men with a certain level of fear-mongering about the great tribulation, we will pay more than the usual attention to men. It should have the effect of ratcheting up the activity and anticipation by making the end seem even more imminent.
    It reminds me of an experience at Bethel when I once had an opportunity to question Brother Franz about his plan to have us study a 1973 book a second time in 1981.
    *** km 11/80 pp. 1-3 par. 5 Part I—Congregation Meetings ***
    CONGREGATION BOOK STUDY: In January we will start studying the book God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached. This 416-page book, published in 1973, contains vital information that is even more apropos now than when it was first released. Think of the hundreds of thousands of new ones who have been baptized since it was first published. My question was about whether we needed a new edition to change some inaccuracies, or whether it would go into print using the old press plates. His response was basically that we needed no update to it because "this is what the publishers need right now." [The book was basically a history of the Watchtower Society wedged into what are now half-obsolete explanations of Matthew 25.] But his idea was that it would somehow make people appreciate the Society, its place in our time, and therefore raise the level of activity.
    So ultimately I think that the pendulum will swing the other way again, and there will be a kind of retraction of this method of making the end seem so imminent as a way to raise activity levels. The Bible indicates that this method can backfire.
    (Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,. . . Langston Hughes agreed:
    *** g94 5/22 p. 27 Put Humor Into Your Life ***
    Poet Langston Hughes once wrote: “Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you.” Oh wait, not that one, but his famous one: "What happens to a dream deferred?"
    Of course, those who become disheartened (over the current emphasis) will likely be "chalked up to" the fact that this served as a test to get rid of those who were not worthy. For most, including myself, the overall context of these "changes" is not as bad as I just represented it, since the overall point is not to fear men, but to expect Jehovah to come to our aid when the trouble seems completely overwhelming. But unfortunately, I fear that even the perceived combination of emphasis on "obedience to men" and "fear-mongering" will combine to create a new kind of burden that will not appear to reflect the true spirit of Christianity. 
  11. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from AllenSmith34 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    I never said it was for a misguided purpose. I can't say I really agree with the purpose, but that was not a concern of mine at the time. My question was more about whether the book would be re-set (in new molten lead linotype) or whether it would be redone for offset printing, and perhaps even an upgrade to the artwork. Also, we had a set of proofreading changes that were not exactly the kind that that the proofreading department could just fix without permission. (And this has an expensive trickle-down effect on the other language editions.) They would be tied in with editorial decisions.
    A few month later, for the updated "Truth" book (1968 edition vs the new 1981 edition), several references to 1975 and the probable imminent end in the 1970's, had to be removed and replaced with new content, but this was a more obvious editorial decision, not a proofreading decision.)
  12. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from DespicableME in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Many sincere brothers now are quick to defend the mistakes of the past by saying that the number of little ones who were stumbled was actually a good thing. We've seem multiple comments on this forum that make that claim. As the misguided logic goes, with 1975, for example, it was a kind of test that only stumbled those who were serving Jehovah with a date in mind.
    To be fair, I think all this talk about the importance of obedience to men is a mistake. It is not hooked to anything so tangible as a calendar date so fewer people will be stumbled outright. But more people will be disheartened over time without being able to put their finger on exactly why. In my opinion it will be because they probably anticipated that association with fellow Witnesses would continue to enhance their love for Jehovah God and Jesus Christ in an overwhelmingly positive, uplifting, encouraging and heartwarming way.
    In this case, perhaps the brothers in the lead feel that they need to cover all the bases, and prepare us for unknown possibilities. The problem, in my opinion, is that this emphasis on the importance of obedience to men has now been associated (e.g., summer conventions) with a kind of future "fear-mongering" about the conditions we can expect during the great tribulation. It creates an even heavier load by making us overly concerned about the next day, when we would prefer to think that seeking first the Kingdom would have freed us from such anxiety, throwing our burden upon Jehovah, knowing that Christ's load is light, and his yoke is kind.
    (Matthew 6:33, 34) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. 34 So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles. But this makes it appear to serve the exact same purpose as 1975. This time, by associating these unspecified ways in which we will need to show obedience to men with a certain level of fear-mongering about the great tribulation, we will pay more than the usual attention to men. It should have the effect of ratcheting up the activity and anticipation by making the end seem even more imminent.
    It reminds me of an experience at Bethel when I once had an opportunity to question Brother Franz about his plan to have us study a 1973 book a second time in 1981.
    *** km 11/80 pp. 1-3 par. 5 Part I—Congregation Meetings ***
    CONGREGATION BOOK STUDY: In January we will start studying the book God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached. This 416-page book, published in 1973, contains vital information that is even more apropos now than when it was first released. Think of the hundreds of thousands of new ones who have been baptized since it was first published. My question was about whether we needed a new edition to change some inaccuracies, or whether it would go into print using the old press plates. His response was basically that we needed no update to it because "this is what the publishers need right now." [The book was basically a history of the Watchtower Society wedged into what are now half-obsolete explanations of Matthew 25.] But his idea was that it would somehow make people appreciate the Society, its place in our time, and therefore raise the level of activity.
    So ultimately I think that the pendulum will swing the other way again, and there will be a kind of retraction of this method of making the end seem so imminent as a way to raise activity levels. The Bible indicates that this method can backfire.
    (Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,. . . Langston Hughes agreed:
    *** g94 5/22 p. 27 Put Humor Into Your Life ***
    Poet Langston Hughes once wrote: “Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you.” Oh wait, not that one, but his famous one: "What happens to a dream deferred?"
    Of course, those who become disheartened (over the current emphasis) will likely be "chalked up to" the fact that this served as a test to get rid of those who were not worthy. For most, including myself, the overall context of these "changes" is not as bad as I just represented it, since the overall point is not to fear men, but to expect Jehovah to come to our aid when the trouble seems completely overwhelming. But unfortunately, I fear that even the perceived combination of emphasis on "obedience to men" and "fear-mongering" will combine to create a new kind of burden that will not appear to reflect the true spirit of Christianity. 
  13. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from SuziQ1513 in Ben Franklin Gets Jilted and Flip-Flopping on the Resurection   
    I'll stick my neck out and offer some last words on the topic.
    You are right that the common expression uses new rope. But it's a dumber, and more ambiguous perspective, in my opinion. As you know I don't always side with JTR, but when I do, it's usually because I think his humor is working. In this case, I think it's a bit funnier with old rope. But I can swing either way with this one.
    Editing to add that JTR's version reminds me somehow of the 3 men in the process of being beheaded by a guillotine. The first, a farmer, puts his head in the slot and the blade gets stuck, stops short, so the executioner says it must be fate, and they let him go. Same thing happens to the next man, a salesman. The third man, an engineer, puts his head in the slot, looks up and says, "Oh wait! I see the problem."
  14. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Ben Franklin Gets Jilted and Flip-Flopping on the Resurection   
    Yeah, my take on it was they would want a NEW rope.
    Like Hugh Hefner had in Latin, on a brass plaque outside the Chicago Playboy Mansion, above his doorbell:
    " Si Non Oscillas Noli Tintinnare."
    ... roughly translated: "If you don't swing .. don't ring."
    He always had a bunch of sycophants "hanging around".
     
  15. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in Ben Franklin Gets Jilted and Flip-Flopping on the Resurection   
    I'll stick my neck out and offer some last words on the topic.
    You are right that the common expression uses new rope. But it's a dumber, and more ambiguous perspective, in my opinion. As you know I don't always side with JTR, but when I do, it's usually because I think his humor is working. In this case, I think it's a bit funnier with old rope. But I can swing either way with this one.
    Editing to add that JTR's version reminds me somehow of the 3 men in the process of being beheaded by a guillotine. The first, a farmer, puts his head in the slot and the blade gets stuck, stops short, so the executioner says it must be fate, and they let him go. Same thing happens to the next man, a salesman. The third man, an engineer, puts his head in the slot, looks up and says, "Oh wait! I see the problem."
  16. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from AllenSmith34 in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Many sincere brothers now are quick to defend the mistakes of the past by saying that the number of little ones who were stumbled was actually a good thing. We've seem multiple comments on this forum that make that claim. As the misguided logic goes, with 1975, for example, it was a kind of test that only stumbled those who were serving Jehovah with a date in mind.
    To be fair, I think all this talk about the importance of obedience to men is a mistake. It is not hooked to anything so tangible as a calendar date so fewer people will be stumbled outright. But more people will be disheartened over time without being able to put their finger on exactly why. In my opinion it will be because they probably anticipated that association with fellow Witnesses would continue to enhance their love for Jehovah God and Jesus Christ in an overwhelmingly positive, uplifting, encouraging and heartwarming way.
    In this case, perhaps the brothers in the lead feel that they need to cover all the bases, and prepare us for unknown possibilities. The problem, in my opinion, is that this emphasis on the importance of obedience to men has now been associated (e.g., summer conventions) with a kind of future "fear-mongering" about the conditions we can expect during the great tribulation. It creates an even heavier load by making us overly concerned about the next day, when we would prefer to think that seeking first the Kingdom would have freed us from such anxiety, throwing our burden upon Jehovah, knowing that Christ's load is light, and his yoke is kind.
    (Matthew 6:33, 34) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. 34 So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles. But this makes it appear to serve the exact same purpose as 1975. This time, by associating these unspecified ways in which we will need to show obedience to men with a certain level of fear-mongering about the great tribulation, we will pay more than the usual attention to men. It should have the effect of ratcheting up the activity and anticipation by making the end seem even more imminent.
    It reminds me of an experience at Bethel when I once had an opportunity to question Brother Franz about his plan to have us study a 1973 book a second time in 1981.
    *** km 11/80 pp. 1-3 par. 5 Part I—Congregation Meetings ***
    CONGREGATION BOOK STUDY: In January we will start studying the book God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached. This 416-page book, published in 1973, contains vital information that is even more apropos now than when it was first released. Think of the hundreds of thousands of new ones who have been baptized since it was first published. My question was about whether we needed a new edition to change some inaccuracies, or whether it would go into print using the old press plates. His response was basically that we needed no update to it because "this is what the publishers need right now." [The book was basically a history of the Watchtower Society wedged into what are now half-obsolete explanations of Matthew 25.] But his idea was that it would somehow make people appreciate the Society, its place in our time, and therefore raise the level of activity.
    So ultimately I think that the pendulum will swing the other way again, and there will be a kind of retraction of this method of making the end seem so imminent as a way to raise activity levels. The Bible indicates that this method can backfire.
    (Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,. . . Langston Hughes agreed:
    *** g94 5/22 p. 27 Put Humor Into Your Life ***
    Poet Langston Hughes once wrote: “Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you.” Oh wait, not that one, but his famous one: "What happens to a dream deferred?"
    Of course, those who become disheartened (over the current emphasis) will likely be "chalked up to" the fact that this served as a test to get rid of those who were not worthy. For most, including myself, the overall context of these "changes" is not as bad as I just represented it, since the overall point is not to fear men, but to expect Jehovah to come to our aid when the trouble seems completely overwhelming. But unfortunately, I fear that even the perceived combination of emphasis on "obedience to men" and "fear-mongering" will combine to create a new kind of burden that will not appear to reflect the true spirit of Christianity. 
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Resurrection complications   
    That was very interesting. Of course, the real idea behind not believing in an immortal soul is that we don't believe there is a part of the person that goes on living as a separate entity (or life force) of some kind that can have its own memories of itself, and which can obtain and maintain new memories of things like suffering in eternal torment or heavenly bliss (or anything at all).
    None of those ideas fit your idea that Witnesses believe in an immortal soul. But we do believe that something "like" what some people call "soul" is encompassed in the set of memories/personality/qualities/traits that make up a person and which can be remembered by Jehovah and recreated in a new body for either a heavenly or earthly environment. This can be summed up in the idea of "spirit" or "soul" but there is still quite a difference between the Witness belief and what most people think of when they hear those words.
  18. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in Let us Appreciate Brother Lett   
    Definitely bad, oppressive, a tool of the insecure. There is a tendency for some to try to lever on this basis. Seems to be a kind of convoluted version of what Peter said at Matthew 26:33.
    However, I do not think Paul and Barnabas were fear-mongering when they said “We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations." Acts 14:22, or Paul when he said to the Hebrews, "In your struggle against that sin, you have never yet resisted to the point of having your blood shed." Heb.12:4.
    Certainly, Peter counseled vigorously against abject "obedience to men" at Acts 5:29: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.", all the more notable as coming from one who displayed the opposite behaviour at times.
    However there is a balance in this matter too, as the same Scriptures counsel children to be "obedient to your parents" (Eph.6:1), slaves to "be obedient in everything to those who are your human masters" (Col.3:22) all faithful Christians to mark those who are "not obedient to our word through this letter" (2Thess.3:14), "to be obedient to governments and authorities" (Titus 3:1); and, finally, to "be obedient to those taking the lead among you" (Heb.13:17).
    So when a b(B)rother says obeying instructions in what is of little consequence now is good practice for obeying instructions regarding what might be big consequences later, I don't feel blackmailed by some sort of bogey-man tactic really. I just feel that this is someone giving me a bit of good advice on how to turn a bumpy ride into something a little smoother. But then, that's just me. Everybody has their own way of dealing with and reacting to these things it seems. 
    I agree entirely with avoiding the creation of a fear-mongered, man-pleasing attitude.
    I endorse fully the need to engage in reflecting Jesus' manner in refreshing our fellow worshippers, working to lighten their "burdens" wherever we can.
    But at the same time we need to balance the fact that it was Jesus who instructed a heightened level of alertness in "keeping on  the watch", an avoidance of everyday distractions in maintaining a personally calibrated "whole soul" level of activity, and a full appreciation of the "torture stake" element involved in our acceptance of discipleship. ?
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in Ben Franklin Gets Jilted and Flip-Flopping on the Resurection   
    Some good points:
    *** w61 11/15 p. 704 Questions From Readers ***
    In the resurrection of the “other sheep” on earth, no former married person will have occasion to envy another former married person, as would be the case if this latter one got back his former marriage mate who had remained single, whereas the envious marriage mate does not get back his former partner because this partner remarried and survived Armageddon with his new marriage mate. What the resurrection promises men is, not remarriage, but reliving, and this under God’s kingdom by Christ. Is that not something satisfying? Has anyone a right to demand more through Christ’s sacrifice? Christ died for you, not to marry, but to live! Let us not be swayed or overcome by sentimentalism or emotionalism. Of course, some of these types of questions ended up pushing the idea that the Greek Scriptures were written only to the anointed. This is not a point of emphasis any more. More reasonable answers and non-dogmatism are always welcome, especially when we are willing to humbly admit that we just don't have all the answers.
  20. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Ben Franklin Gets Jilted and Flip-Flopping on the Resurection   
    Ben Franklin courted the widow of his good friend, but the woman turned him down flat: ‘I could never be untrue to my husband.Â’ Then, in a dream, he went to heaven and met his good friend. They exchanged pleasantries until the friend presently said: “You must meet my new wife. SheÂ’ll be along soon.” Ben Franklin couldnÂ’t believe it. ‘Your earthly wife is more loyal than you!Â’ he said. She turned me down cold on your account!Â’ ‘ThatÂ’s too bad for you,Â’ the friend said. ‘She is an excellent woman and I missed her terribly at first, but now it is time to move on.Â’
    As Ben Franklin grumbled, the ‘new’ wife showed up and it was Ben’s own deceased wife! Ben Franklin turned his rebuke on her, but she said: ‘I was a good and loyal wife to you for 50 years. Let that be enough for you!’
    It is a mangling of Luke 20: 34-36, most likely, botched, but nonetheless used as a starting point. No need to say what is wrong with it. Suffice that it addresses the changed nature of relationships after death:
    “Jesus said to them: ‘The children of this system of things marry and are given in marriage, but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection.’”
    For the longest time JehovahÂ’s Witnesses took those verses to mean that those who lost a spouse in death would not reunite in the earthly resurrection. After a certain public talk years ago that had mentioned the verse, a sister raised her had during the chairmanÂ’s remarks, something I had never seen before and have not seen again. She was new in the faith, widowed, and she looked forward to reuniting with her husband in the resurrection. She quizzed the chairman until the speaker himself raised his hand and said he would clarify the verse for her afterwards.
    About 30-40 years ago, the Witness organization looked at the verses anew and said maybe she could reunite. They didn’t want to be dogmatic. Maybe the verses just applied to those having the heavenly hope, as they were the ones in abundance back then. It can’t even be said of earthly ones “neither can they die anymore.” They can, and surely will, if they show a rebellious spirit. I mean, if you were raised up to life on a paradise earth, would you grumble about the ground rules?
    Grousers who say that Jehovah’s Witnesses flip-flop on doctrine miss the point. They’ve never said they didn’t. They do it all the time, re-examining verses in the face of accumulating knowledge. It has been called ‘the light getting brighter.’ (Proverbs 4:18) It has also been called tacking. The only ones who say they can’t do it are the grousers themselves.
    That said, the major teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding the nature of God (no Trinity), the nature of the soul (not immortal), who goes to heaven (not everybody good, but only a minority), have been firmly in place for over a century. Ridding the false doctrines that make knowledge and a close relationship with God all but impossible is part of the job of ‘the messenger preparing the way.’ The first thing you do in preparing the way for a building project is to take out the trash.
    (the Ben Franklin writing is called 'A Proposal to Madame Helvetius')

  21. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in Resurrection complications   
    Interesting and quirky line of reasoning.
    Probably stretches it a bit too far to be accurate. What people generally believe about soul and/or spirit is that it/they are an entity with a life of their own...somewhere. We do not believe this at all. That would seem to me to present too fundamental a difference to advocate similarity in concept.
    Perhaps the nearest we could get is to liken the dead to be in a digital media archive with as much detail as possible to characterise the individual, and then the resurrection would be like printing them out again in a 3D printer. Although that might put a rather different slant on the greeting mentioned elsewhere: "Hello Dolly!" (Let the reader provide a link).
  22. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Reaching Hearts in the Digital Age   
    " ....... and thank you Almighty God, for the two Meetings today,  and the congregation picnic this afternoon after the meeting and field service, at the Glomer Municipal Building at 2615  Williams Street at 4PM to 8PM, and please help us to remember to keep the potato salad on ice so it does not spoil, it's really hot out there, and please help us stay afterwards to help clean up the mess, and put away the folding chairs, and, oh yeah ... we need someone who can bring two cold, medium sized seedless watermelons, and a knife ( and there is more ...)    .... Amen"
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Darlene in Reference for new pioneer book does anyone has this or maybe know someone who does   
    Dear librarian
    i just went to pioneer school and you get the book a month in advance plus all the references and all the scriptural references you can download all of the a month ahead of the time you will attend the school 
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Refusing to Buy a Party Card Meant Death ~ Could You Stand Up To The Truth?   
    @Gone Away, Thanks for pointing to that thread from last year. I just skimmed it and I think it included just about all I personally would ever want to say about the topic again. I am always tempted to just rewrite from scratch, but not this time. Thanks again.
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in FOXNEWS FLASH! PENNSYLVANIA ACCUSES HUNDREDS OF PRIESTS !   
    After noting those two wrong or at least misleading facts, I decided to do a quick check on the implication above that "they removed it from the list of disorders." The first link that came up actually showed that in 2014 the idea (American Psychiatric Association: DSM-5) was never to remove it from the list of disorders, but to remove the label "Pedophilic Sexual Orientation." This is nearly the opposite of the general point you made.
    http://jaapl.org/content/42/4/404
    Perhaps you are referring to something that came up after 2014. If so, I didn't see that, and didn't look any further into it.
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