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JW Insider

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  1. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in 1989 Watchtower   
    Hi JR. 
    I am liking @JW Insider 's anecdote re the "Millenium bug" as it relates to my own experience. I was handsomely paid to be on call for Yr 2K problems in my workplace although I had demonstrated months earlier that the relevant systems were unaffected.
    I provide no support whatsover to those who make false claims about the Watchtower of any year. I am quite happy to observe errors, ommissions, and anything else that the muck-rakers care to dredge up. Apart from historical interest, it provides for me evidence of the  active involvement of the Head of the congregation.
    Oh, and while we are on false claims, neither do I claim to be a computer genius with a degree. I, (thankfully), am one of those under-educated, college dropout JWs highlighted in another thread. Funny, it made no difference to me financially on comparison with siblings and peers who availed themselves of "the king's shilling". On reflection, maybe it meant I didn't reach the top 1% income bracket.....but then, neither did they. 
  2. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Melinda Mills in 1989 Watchtower   
    You can look at it in conjunction with these scriptures.
    (Matthew 24:21) for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.
    All systems  might be breaking down in the future, for that scripture to be fulfilled. (I did not say 2038)  
    About the problem of fixing something that is destined to occur in the future we might apply this scripture as well.
    (Matt:6:34) "  So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles." 
    It is not wrong to do what you can to solve foreseen problems, but we have much to do already.  Anxiety will not  add anything to our lives.  Seek first the Kingdom and do Jehovah's will.  Jehovah has a way of working everything out.

     
  3. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Peter Kutzer-Salm in Matthew 19:12 - What does it mean?   
    @Queen Esther I think Jesus was just making the same point that Paul made in 1 Corinthians. Jesus made the point in a dramatic way that would catch everyone's attention. Paul, I think, is providing a commentary for the same point, showing that it was not literal, of course, but by personal choice. It's about the choice to marry or not to marry.
    I merely pulled the three cross-referenced scriptures that the NWT uses for the verse in Matthew:
    (1 Corinthians 7:32) Indeed, I want you to be free from anxiety. The unmarried man is anxious for the things of the Lord, how he may gain the Lord’s approval. (1 Corinthians 7:38) So also, whoever marries does well, but whoever does not marry will do better. (1 Corinthians 9:5) We have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as the rest of the apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Ceʹphas, do we not?  
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in 1989 Watchtower   
    This is strange. Everything else you said in the paragraph that this quote came from is very true. But this particular sentence quoted here is false. It would also be completely irrelevant to a printed document or an electronic version of a printed document. The Y2K problem (which the Society cared nothing about in 1989) would not have made a 2017 CD-ROM a 1917 CD-ROM any more than it would have made it a pre-Gutenberg 1317 CD-ROM. Your claim is meaningless. The CD-ROM programs from the Watchtower that came out in 1993 can still be made to work today. I think 1993 was the first one. 
    There never was an impending disaster coming from Y2K. And there will not be one arising from the 2038 Unix Millennium Bug either. (An upgrade to the operating system can make over 99% of the 2038 bug go away immediately without changing software.) The original Y2K bug could cause problems in a whole range of areas, and most of us in IT had to waste several years of our careers becoming our own QA departments, certifying that all our programs were going to work without a glitch. My own department's programs were mostly in C during those years (and a little bit of dBase+Clipper, Turbo Pascal, Excel Macros) but relied on mainframe feeds mostly through SQL+DB2. But I was also surprised that so many of the COBOL programs we checked had already worked around the Y2K problem even without storing 4-character years. That even goes for solving financial range problems that crossed January 1, 2000 and/or February 29, 2000.
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Srecko Sostar in Russian JW's Begin to Remove Kingdom Halls Signs   
    I'm sorry, but I think that the view JW members has on these and similar events is under the influence of GB leadership and their interpretation of events to the public with help of JWTV and publications.
    JW members are very much constrained by their own lives in the WT Corporation and do not see how other people suffer because of religious beliefs too, whether they are Christians or "Gentiles". Bible stating - "God is impartial!!" - what does it mean for those who are not JW ??? Does JHVH are insensitive for suffering of those people, but only give, pay attention for JW prayers and their letters to Russia? If your Father is impartial, so you as JW member need to pray and for suffers that have Baptists, Catholics, Adventists, Hinduists ....because with such heart and mind and attitude you will imitate Father and Son, as in story of Samaritan. So please start to write letters also for people of other confessions as proof of impartiality :))))   
    When I was in jail for "neutrality" as JW, there was also two Adventist boys and two Nazarene boys, for the same issue . Two Adventist boy has been beaten by jail guards because they refused, for the reason of faith of course,  to clean the floors at Saturday, because Saturday is day not for working but for spiritual matters, things. Can they be "wise in front of unbelievers" or those suffer was God's will for them? Or God just allowed their suffer? Because, they were convinced, suffer  is for Jesus name?!  How you as JW member would "judge" their faith and their persistent to not obey secular authorities? Do you think of them as fanatics, as  misdirected zeal?? I am quite sure that JW would say how their faith and believes are not worthy and how Jesus not asking them that and how they wrongly interpret Bible, how their doctrine are err.
    Please look in the own mirror, and you will see how "their" face  and "your" face look the same at the end of the day .....or in the morning.:))))))  
  6. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Arauna in Russian JW's Begin to Remove Kingdom Halls Signs   
    Jehovah allows many testing situations to happen.  He will only intervene in this wicked world when the time is ready.  Satan is in control of this world and many bad things may still come to pass before Jehovah steps in. We can pray for our brothers and sisters to remain faithful and be wise so as to avoid problems which it is possible to sidestep.  If they are discreet (which we know they are), they will survive this oppressive regime.
  7. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Space Merchant in 'Peace and Security'   
    One thing to know this video was posted by the Interfaith Division among the United Nations on their site, it can be found on Youtube. The reason Interfaith is in full force is because of Pope Francis.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/worlds-top-religious-leaders-issue-rare-joint-appeal_us_5942c11ee4b06bb7d2719e8e
    http://elijah-interfaith.org/
     
    Another thing is before the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, the Pope's historic meeting with Patriarch Cyril was important. After France got involved afterwards, since a lot of money was made by the Russians, they moved to stop JWs in Russia, they can't stop them 100% tho. Most of the persecution comes from the Pro-Kremlin Russians who are literally idolizing Putin.
    The laws in Russia has also been abused and it is not only used against Jehovah's Witnesses, but among the Russian people. Examples, A guy called an extremist for playing Pokemon in a Church, a Ukrainian Liberian arrested for being accused of an Extremist, just for making a minor joke about the RoC, a child was arrested for poetry.
    On the other side you have the countrywide protesting whereas the FSB is using software even Sowden made comment on not to just attack protesters, but anyone who oppose the Russian Kremlin. They are using software, bribery and lies, selling sex, and the like to shut protesters down and it is very sickening.
    The thing is Russia is preparing for something, the major thing being the Russian election coming soon, hence why they are "eliminating" people whether they are in the way or not.
     
    That being said, there is religious movement going on in the background, especially with the moves Pope Francis is making on his conquest for "peace".
     
    Sorry if I kinda got off topic, I tend to go in rumbles sometimes.
  8. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Noble Berean in 'Peace and Security'   
    Nice phrase. This sums up nearly the entire story of the world since nearly the beginning of the world.
  9. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in 1989 Watchtower   
    Can't tell if you are trying to solve the Society's "generation" crisis, or trying to sell books, or just don't want to throw out your obsolete neckties.
  10. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in 1989 Watchtower   
    That's even worse! You think that the real reason the correction was made was because they understood the potential that a software glitch would have made us revert back to the end of the 19th century, doomed to repeat the last 100 years like a "Groundhog Day" for centuries instead of days. All I can say is what you said . . .
     
  11. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Bible Speaks in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    Hah! I noticed this little blast from the past (and present for many of us, too). Hard to believe that so many of us fell for this little mix-up between which word was the better one to use and which was not so good. Turns out that "LUCK" was more than likely just a term for success or loss that came into English from middle German where a lot of gaming and gambling terms came from in the 1500s. So we all replaced it with a word based on FORTUNE, which had been personified as a false Roman goddess during Bible times. Even when it came into English the earliest known instance is in the phrase "Dame Fortune."
    Even in the Bible, the word translated "fortune" was associated with bad things:
    (Leviticus 20:27) 27 “‘Any man or woman who acts as a spirit medium or is a fortune-teller should be put to death without fail. . . . of course, it was based on the translation of
    (Isaiah 65:11) 11 “But YOU men are those leaving Jehovah, those forgetting my holy mountain, those setting in order a table for the god of Good Luck. . . But the foot-note for that verse says
    *** Rbi8 Isaiah 65:11 ***
    “For the god of Good Luck.” Heb., lag·gadhʹ; LXX, “the demon”; Lat., For·tuʹnae. Compare Ge 30:11 ftns. Of course if you follow the footnotes for Genesis 30:11 you see that the same word for "Luck" here is translated "Fortune" in Genesis:
    (Genesis 30:10, 11) . . .. 11 Then Leʹah said: “With good fortune!” So she called his name Gad. The name of the tribe was "Luck" just as "laggadh' basically means "to Luck" if the footnote for Isaiah 65:11 is correct. Or Isaiah was referring to the god of Fortune, if the footnote to Genesis 30:11 is correct.
    It was about as silly as saying that we shouldn't say something was "destined" to occur, because this somehow invokes the god of Destiny.
    (Luke 9:44) . . .for the Son of man is destined to be delivered into the hands of men.” (Mark 13:4) 4 “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are destined to come to a conclusion?”
    (Isaiah 65:11) . . .And those filling up cups of mixed wine for the god of Destiny.
  12. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in 1989 Watchtower   
    That's even worse! You think that the real reason the correction was made was because they understood the potential that a software glitch would have made us revert back to the end of the 19th century, doomed to repeat the last 100 years like a "Groundhog Day" for centuries instead of days. All I can say is what you said . . .
     
  13. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Bible Speaks in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    The 1936 Year Book said:
    HAWAIIAN ISLANDS
    The Society's branch office established in Honolulu,
    Hawaiian Islands, is making progress. Only a small
    number of workers are there, the publishers numbering
    12 in all. During the year property was purchased
    and a suitable hall and living quarters were erected.
    This building fronts on a boulevard and also abuts on
    a side street. Signs are placed on the building, advertising
    the hall and the books. These are illuminated
    by electricity, so that everyone passing must see the
    signs. The work has progressed there during the year,
    and the total number of books and booklets placed is,
    to wit, 19,170. From the local director's report the
    following is taken :
    The real high point of the year's witness, Brother Rutherford,
    was the public address delivered by you here in Honolulu at
    McKinley auditorium last April, and which was carried by
    radio to the other islands. . . .  In Jehovah's providence it
    arrived in time for use on June 2, for the world-wide broadcast.
    And Jehovah's blessing has been very manifestly upon
    its use ever since.
    And then came to us Kingdom Hall, for use in honoring his
    name at transcription lectures and study meetings, also as a
    headquarters for Jehovah's literature and publishers at this
    place. In addition to the meetings held in it, Kingdom Hall,
    with its signs and books on display, brings the name and word
    of Jehovah prominently before the people. . . . The Lord
    has done so much for his work that the publishers here feel
    an additional weight of responsibility to faithfully carry out
    the work the Lord has given them. Meetings in Kingdom Hall
    are held in English, Spanish and Japanese.
    During the construction of Kingdom Hall many things occurred
    which demonstrated clearly the providences of Jehovah.
    It has been the means of greater co-operation amongst Jehovah's
    witnesses at this place.
    ----end of excerpt quoted from 1936 Year Book, p.145-146.
  14. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Bible Speaks in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    I don't have a better answer, but I can give a longer one.  I've haven't heard what you heard, although it's quite possibly a truer version, of course. Looking at all the probabilities from my perspective, fwiw, I'd say it could go either way, but makes a little bit more sense that the Hawaiian brothers had already been using the term Kingdom Hall, but it still needed the stamp of approval from Rutherford if it were to remain, or catch on for other places. Rutherford probably gave it his approval either during or shortly after his visit to Honolulu in April 1935. I think it was more than just "tacit" approval based on the earliest mention.
    It's typical in Watchtower publications that the wording of any specific experience gets tweaked so often before it reaches print that even an "exact quote" might not look anything like the original "exact quote." You can see this if you compare the first version of MacMillan's "Faith on the March" to the one that was finally published and distributed to Kingdom Halls. You can see that the announcement that Russell supposedly made on October 1st, 1914 (later changed to October 4th, then later changed to October 2nd) was never mentioned anywhere until the 1920's. I've witnessed the changing of exact quotes in experiences given to the Bethel family, changing PR lines that I was to give in answer to questions when giving special tours at Betherl to non-JWs who might question recent news items. On a more local level, I know that it's not just me, but several of us who have been involved in giving our experiences at conventions have probably been surprised to hear our own "exact quotes" changed for public consumption.
    For the reasons just mentioned, I would have some doubt about the exact quote that Rutherford was supposed to have said. Early versions of the story never included anything like an exact quote from Rutherford which is included in the official story in the "Proclaimers" Book:
    *** jv chap. 20 p. 319 Building Together on a Global Scale ***
    Before World War II, there were a few congregations that built meeting places specially designed for their use. Even as early as 1890, a group of Bible Students in the United States at Mount Lookout, West Virginia, built their own meeting place.* [*footnote: It was known as the “New Light” Church because those who associated there felt that as a result of reading Watch Tower publications, they had new light on the Bible.]
    Widespread building of Kingdom Halls, however, did not get under way until the 1950’s. The name Kingdom Hall was suggested in 1935 by J. F. Rutherford, who was then president of the Watch Tower Society. In connection with the Society’s branch facilities in Honolulu, Hawaii, he arranged for the brothers to construct a hall where meetings could be held. When James Harrub asked what Brother Rutherford was going to call the building, he replied: “Don’t you think we should call it ‘Kingdom Hall,’ since that is what we are doing, preaching the good news of the Kingdom?” Thereafter, where possible, halls regularly being used by the Witnesses gradually began to be identified by signs that said “Kingdom Hall.” Thus, when the London Tabernacle was renovated in 1937-38, it was renamed Kingdom Hall. In time, the principal local meeting place of congregations worldwide came to be known as the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    That was in 1993, and it might have been the first time, I think, that anyone came up with a quote for Rutherford to have said in this context.
    Almost 10 years earlier, September 1983, research was being recompiled for the celebration of the 100 YEAR anniversary of the birth of of Watch Tower's corporate charter. (I know this for a fact because I had a small research project for this pamphlet, which I called the "Birthday Brochure" because its code was "br") I'll quote a longer excerpt from it here because it helps answer the question about what "Kingdom Halls" were called prior to 1935.
    *** br84 pp. 14-15 Watch Tower Society and Congregation Meetings ***
    The Bible Students in Pittsburgh established the pattern of meeting together two and eventually three times a week. Meetings on Sunday were public lectures held in a rented hall, such as the Curry Institute Hall on the corner of Penn Avenue and 6th Street in Pittsburgh. Apart from the lectures on Sundays, meetings were held in private homes—in the beginning at the home of the father of Charles Russell, J. L. Russell, 80 Cedar Avenue, Allegheny City. These came to be called cottage meetings. Group meetings in private homes on Wednesdays consisted of Prayer, Praise and Testimony Meetings, which have developed into our Service Meetings of today. Later they also arranged “Dawn Circles” on Friday evenings where they studied from the early books of the Society called Millennial Dawn series. . . . As groups increased in size various meeting halls were rented, sometimes even available church buildings being used. . . . Sometimes suitable buildings were purchased by the Bible Students locally. . . . Various names were given to these, such as a local designation followed by the word “Tabernacle,” for example “Brooklyn Tabernacle,” “London Tabernacle.”    However, the Watch Tower Society introduced a unifying feature with regard to meeting halls of Jehovah’s people. In 1935 arrangements were made to construct a meeting hall in connection with the new branch building being erected in Honolulu, Hawaii. The president of the Watch Tower Society, J. F. Rutherford, was visiting there, and it had been decided to call the meeting hall “Kingdom Hall” so as to keep God’s Kingdom to the fore. From that time on Jehovah’s Witnesses the world over have called their congregational meeting centers Kingdom Halls. Saying "it had been decided" didn't give the credit to specifically to Rutherford. This was slightly reworded for the February 1, 1984 Watchtower where Rutherford was given the credit, although still without a "story" that showed he was only "suggesting" it:
    *** w84 2/1 p. 25 par. 14 ‘Oneness of Spirit’ in a Rapidly Growing Flock ***
    In the same year that the “great crowd” was properly identified as an earthly class, J. F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, gave the name Kingdom Hall to a meeting place of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Hawaii. From that time on, this name has regularly been used by Jehovah’s Witnesses for their meeting halls. *** w55 8/15 p. 491 Part 16—Publishing Under a New Name, Theocratically ***
    Among other developments to note was that resulting from the visit of the Society’s president to the Hawaiian Islands in 1935. Then a branch office was established in Honolulu and arrangements were made for construction of an assembly hall in connection with the new branch building there being erected. At the dedication this hall was appropriately designated “Kingdom Hall,” thus commencing the practice of Jehovah’s witnesses the world over of calling their congregational meeting centers Kingdom Halls. In the fall of 1937 what had formerly been known as the “London Tabernacle” was now redecorated and renamed “Kingdom Hall.” U.S. Newspapers, as far as I can tell never included the term Kingdom Hall with reference to Witnesses until 1938, and even then mostly in Michigan.
    Even in the 1937 Yearbook, p. 170 the only mention of a Kingdom Hall is still in regard to the building in Hawaii:
    By means of shortwave, however, and the sound car, the lecture was heard well in Kingdom hall to a good-size audience there assembled. The story of Hawaii first appeared in the 1936 Yearbook, p. 145. It's interesting to note that the title Kingdom Hall was used in a different way than it is today in English. This post is long so I'll post it right below.
     
  15. Haha
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    And to think ... I used to think a "conundrum" was a wide belt  worn with a tuxedo ....

  16. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to See it yet? in 'Peace and Security'   
    I find it interesting the very ones making the calls for peace and security are the very ones making things 'shakey'... It's all a ruse that will backfire on them. I don't think many who believe the Bible realize just how this is orchestrated. Basically what I am saying is it is not the results of organic natural behaviors. It is about Elitists arranging chaos so they can present the 'solution' to something that just does not exist. They will be the aggressors against God's people as well. They will try to maneuver God's people and force them to react. These fake events involving JW's will be what will make witnesses make a public stand to deny the untruthfulness of the reality spoken about them. Otherwise the option is to stay silent which would make them complicit. The acts of deceptions in the name of the witnesses is what I believe the thing that will force the 'truth' to take a stand. Ultimately it will spur on Christs 'standing up'.. The nations will be the initiating force.  But they will be surprised when Jehovah disturbs them by 'reports'.
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    All these explanations are wrong. It becomes tiresome. 
    Luckily Fortunately for everyone here, I will elucidate. The answer is found in our family folklore.
    I invited my profane great uncle to a meeting long ago. He attended only one. He sputtered and groused throughout the talk and Watchtower study, just like some on this forum. Afterwards in the parking lot he grumbled to a brother, who turned out to be hard of hearing: "What is this nonsense about a Kingdom? Hell, I don't believe a word of it!"
    The brother mistook his remark as appreciation. He thought it would make a really cool name for something that had, up to that time, been called a "place."
    The term caught on. Brother Rutherford heard about it one day and said: 'Yeah. I can live with that."
  18. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in Matthew 19:12 - What does it mean?   
    @Queen Esther I think Jesus was just making the same point that Paul made in 1 Corinthians. Jesus made the point in a dramatic way that would catch everyone's attention. Paul, I think, is providing a commentary for the same point, showing that it was not literal, of course, but by personal choice. It's about the choice to marry or not to marry.
    I merely pulled the three cross-referenced scriptures that the NWT uses for the verse in Matthew:
    (1 Corinthians 7:32) Indeed, I want you to be free from anxiety. The unmarried man is anxious for the things of the Lord, how he may gain the Lord’s approval. (1 Corinthians 7:38) So also, whoever marries does well, but whoever does not marry will do better. (1 Corinthians 9:5) We have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, as the rest of the apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Ceʹphas, do we not?  
  19. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    The 1936 Year Book said:
    HAWAIIAN ISLANDS
    The Society's branch office established in Honolulu,
    Hawaiian Islands, is making progress. Only a small
    number of workers are there, the publishers numbering
    12 in all. During the year property was purchased
    and a suitable hall and living quarters were erected.
    This building fronts on a boulevard and also abuts on
    a side street. Signs are placed on the building, advertising
    the hall and the books. These are illuminated
    by electricity, so that everyone passing must see the
    signs. The work has progressed there during the year,
    and the total number of books and booklets placed is,
    to wit, 19,170. From the local director's report the
    following is taken :
    The real high point of the year's witness, Brother Rutherford,
    was the public address delivered by you here in Honolulu at
    McKinley auditorium last April, and which was carried by
    radio to the other islands. . . .  In Jehovah's providence it
    arrived in time for use on June 2, for the world-wide broadcast.
    And Jehovah's blessing has been very manifestly upon
    its use ever since.
    And then came to us Kingdom Hall, for use in honoring his
    name at transcription lectures and study meetings, also as a
    headquarters for Jehovah's literature and publishers at this
    place. In addition to the meetings held in it, Kingdom Hall,
    with its signs and books on display, brings the name and word
    of Jehovah prominently before the people. . . . The Lord
    has done so much for his work that the publishers here feel
    an additional weight of responsibility to faithfully carry out
    the work the Lord has given them. Meetings in Kingdom Hall
    are held in English, Spanish and Japanese.
    During the construction of Kingdom Hall many things occurred
    which demonstrated clearly the providences of Jehovah.
    It has been the means of greater co-operation amongst Jehovah's
    witnesses at this place.
    ----end of excerpt quoted from 1936 Year Book, p.145-146.
  20. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED... WHY DO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL THEIR MEETING PLACE A KINGDOM HALL RATHER THAN A CHURCH? ?⛪️?   
    I don't have a better answer, but I can give a longer one.  I've haven't heard what you heard, although it's quite possibly a truer version, of course. Looking at all the probabilities from my perspective, fwiw, I'd say it could go either way, but makes a little bit more sense that the Hawaiian brothers had already been using the term Kingdom Hall, but it still needed the stamp of approval from Rutherford if it were to remain, or catch on for other places. Rutherford probably gave it his approval either during or shortly after his visit to Honolulu in April 1935. I think it was more than just "tacit" approval based on the earliest mention.
    It's typical in Watchtower publications that the wording of any specific experience gets tweaked so often before it reaches print that even an "exact quote" might not look anything like the original "exact quote." You can see this if you compare the first version of MacMillan's "Faith on the March" to the one that was finally published and distributed to Kingdom Halls. You can see that the announcement that Russell supposedly made on October 1st, 1914 (later changed to October 4th, then later changed to October 2nd) was never mentioned anywhere until the 1920's. I've witnessed the changing of exact quotes in experiences given to the Bethel family, changing PR lines that I was to give in answer to questions when giving special tours at Betherl to non-JWs who might question recent news items. On a more local level, I know that it's not just me, but several of us who have been involved in giving our experiences at conventions have probably been surprised to hear our own "exact quotes" changed for public consumption.
    For the reasons just mentioned, I would have some doubt about the exact quote that Rutherford was supposed to have said. Early versions of the story never included anything like an exact quote from Rutherford which is included in the official story in the "Proclaimers" Book:
    *** jv chap. 20 p. 319 Building Together on a Global Scale ***
    Before World War II, there were a few congregations that built meeting places specially designed for their use. Even as early as 1890, a group of Bible Students in the United States at Mount Lookout, West Virginia, built their own meeting place.* [*footnote: It was known as the “New Light” Church because those who associated there felt that as a result of reading Watch Tower publications, they had new light on the Bible.]
    Widespread building of Kingdom Halls, however, did not get under way until the 1950’s. The name Kingdom Hall was suggested in 1935 by J. F. Rutherford, who was then president of the Watch Tower Society. In connection with the Society’s branch facilities in Honolulu, Hawaii, he arranged for the brothers to construct a hall where meetings could be held. When James Harrub asked what Brother Rutherford was going to call the building, he replied: “Don’t you think we should call it ‘Kingdom Hall,’ since that is what we are doing, preaching the good news of the Kingdom?” Thereafter, where possible, halls regularly being used by the Witnesses gradually began to be identified by signs that said “Kingdom Hall.” Thus, when the London Tabernacle was renovated in 1937-38, it was renamed Kingdom Hall. In time, the principal local meeting place of congregations worldwide came to be known as the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    That was in 1993, and it might have been the first time, I think, that anyone came up with a quote for Rutherford to have said in this context.
    Almost 10 years earlier, September 1983, research was being recompiled for the celebration of the 100 YEAR anniversary of the birth of of Watch Tower's corporate charter. (I know this for a fact because I had a small research project for this pamphlet, which I called the "Birthday Brochure" because its code was "br") I'll quote a longer excerpt from it here because it helps answer the question about what "Kingdom Halls" were called prior to 1935.
    *** br84 pp. 14-15 Watch Tower Society and Congregation Meetings ***
    The Bible Students in Pittsburgh established the pattern of meeting together two and eventually three times a week. Meetings on Sunday were public lectures held in a rented hall, such as the Curry Institute Hall on the corner of Penn Avenue and 6th Street in Pittsburgh. Apart from the lectures on Sundays, meetings were held in private homes—in the beginning at the home of the father of Charles Russell, J. L. Russell, 80 Cedar Avenue, Allegheny City. These came to be called cottage meetings. Group meetings in private homes on Wednesdays consisted of Prayer, Praise and Testimony Meetings, which have developed into our Service Meetings of today. Later they also arranged “Dawn Circles” on Friday evenings where they studied from the early books of the Society called Millennial Dawn series. . . . As groups increased in size various meeting halls were rented, sometimes even available church buildings being used. . . . Sometimes suitable buildings were purchased by the Bible Students locally. . . . Various names were given to these, such as a local designation followed by the word “Tabernacle,” for example “Brooklyn Tabernacle,” “London Tabernacle.”    However, the Watch Tower Society introduced a unifying feature with regard to meeting halls of Jehovah’s people. In 1935 arrangements were made to construct a meeting hall in connection with the new branch building being erected in Honolulu, Hawaii. The president of the Watch Tower Society, J. F. Rutherford, was visiting there, and it had been decided to call the meeting hall “Kingdom Hall” so as to keep God’s Kingdom to the fore. From that time on Jehovah’s Witnesses the world over have called their congregational meeting centers Kingdom Halls. Saying "it had been decided" didn't give the credit to specifically to Rutherford. This was slightly reworded for the February 1, 1984 Watchtower where Rutherford was given the credit, although still without a "story" that showed he was only "suggesting" it:
    *** w84 2/1 p. 25 par. 14 ‘Oneness of Spirit’ in a Rapidly Growing Flock ***
    In the same year that the “great crowd” was properly identified as an earthly class, J. F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, gave the name Kingdom Hall to a meeting place of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Hawaii. From that time on, this name has regularly been used by Jehovah’s Witnesses for their meeting halls. *** w55 8/15 p. 491 Part 16—Publishing Under a New Name, Theocratically ***
    Among other developments to note was that resulting from the visit of the Society’s president to the Hawaiian Islands in 1935. Then a branch office was established in Honolulu and arrangements were made for construction of an assembly hall in connection with the new branch building there being erected. At the dedication this hall was appropriately designated “Kingdom Hall,” thus commencing the practice of Jehovah’s witnesses the world over of calling their congregational meeting centers Kingdom Halls. In the fall of 1937 what had formerly been known as the “London Tabernacle” was now redecorated and renamed “Kingdom Hall.” U.S. Newspapers, as far as I can tell never included the term Kingdom Hall with reference to Witnesses until 1938, and even then mostly in Michigan.
    Even in the 1937 Yearbook, p. 170 the only mention of a Kingdom Hall is still in regard to the building in Hawaii:
    By means of shortwave, however, and the sound car, the lecture was heard well in Kingdom hall to a good-size audience there assembled. The story of Hawaii first appeared in the 1936 Yearbook, p. 145. It's interesting to note that the title Kingdom Hall was used in a different way than it is today in English. This post is long so I'll post it right below.
     
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in I'm spending this whole week at the British Museum. Any Questions?   
    I have been in contact with a couple research coordinators at the British Museum and one has already met with me twice in person this week. I meet another one tomorrow. I have been working from a list of questions, some of which are common questions from religious circles, and some of which are a little more specific to the interest of JWs. It's not that any one person can answer the questions but I can get good leads on recent, ongoing and upcoming research projects. I have found that when I want to contact someone who is working on a project that being able to say I spoke to so-and-so at the BM (or similar place) is an excellent way to start out.
    My list of questions have included the following topics and research areas. In some of the topics I have dozens of specific questions already on my list. The general topics below might remind anyone of their own questions they might have always wanted to ask someone.
    The earliest evidence of the use of a cross among Christians. Any Christian and Christian-related iconography prior to 200 C.E. Assyrian, Neo-Babylonian, Persian, Greek research on chronology from about 750 to 400-ish B.C.E. Habitation/Population evidence of Israel/Judea/Palestine from 740 to 605 to 589 to 539 to 518 B.C.E. etc. Questions related to identities of rulers mentioned in Daniel Questions about the date of the death of Herod the Great Questions about the identification of the Pharaohs who interacted with Israelites Linguistic "crossover" from Egyptian, Phoenician, Hebrew in religious subjects (priesthood, circumcision, temple-related artifacts) Religion of the Canaanite-related people before and during the Israelite conquest Dead Sea Scrolls as they relate to Second Temple period, and Essene, early Pharisee, and early Christian traditions  
    (I am here for more than a week, staying across from Kensington Gardens, Hyde Park -- also here for a wedding.)
     
  22. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in I'm spending this whole week at the British Museum. Any Questions?   
    I met a group of Witnesses from Paris in a tour group - tagged along for a bit and enjoyed their company. Also a Japanese group of Witnesses, but without enough language in common to communicate. I'm sure there were other Witness tours that I missed. This was my fourth time here in 40 years, and I have been on a Witness-sponsored tour here before, too.
    This was the first time I ever got to meet with some staff and get a little bit of a behind-the-scenes look. This was not because of anything I had done or researched, I was just taking advantage of an opportunity. (A BM project leader was meeting with the non-Witness roommate of a relative of mine at his college in 2015 and I got to meet the same person at the university at that time.) The roommate's project was not religious: it was related to restoring pigmentation and original color to old statues and paintings. But I found that this project leader had been in archaeological digs in Sudan and had studied the Kushites. I asked him what he knew of the claim that the Bible's mention of Tirhakah of "Cush/Ethiopia" had been doubted by authorities until the discovery of statues of him (or rather, the correct translation of inscriptions on previously discovered statues.) It had supposedly been doubted because the Sennacherib Prism (and Taylor's Prism) along with the mural pictorials at Nineveh had mentioned many of the same points from 2 Kings 19, but it never mentioned the diversion from Tirhakah's intended attack on Sennacherib when he was threatening Hezekiah. The prisms mention Hezekiah and some of his actions.
    The British Museum houses the Taylor Prism mentioning his first and second incursion to Hezekiah without success, a mural from Nineveh that includes the battle of Lachish, a statue of Tirhakah and, of course, the Rosetta Stone that held the key to the correct translation of the inscriptions. So this particular instance of Bible corroboration is often pointed out in tours.
    At any rate, many Bible tours are given by many different religious groups, as the British Museum was set up in such a way that it encourages (and intrigues) persons with Biblical interest. Various items are still labeled with Bible stories in mind:
    Gilgamesh and the Flood. Abraham's home of Ur and Ur's "Ram in a Thicket" motif. What did the Tower of Babel look like? What Pharaoh was the Pharaoh of the Exodus? If Jehu, or Hezekiah, or another Bible personage is mentioned or alluded to, it's often mentioned in the descriptions of items. The British Museum is one of the best places to give a tour of Bible related items.
    Several of the museum staff are very happy to accommodate well-meaning researchers whose only goal is to provide more accurate information when giving tours, for example. Apparently, a few people take advantage. And of course, there are those who go through and give outlandishly wrong information in their tours, just to push an agenda about UFO's or racial issues. I am uncomfortable with the way a lot of the tour guides claim that this or that artifact "proves" that the Bible is right. They often support the Bible's historical narratives perfectly, but no material item "proves" the Bible is right, just as the Bible doesn't "prove" that the artifact is right.
    Still, there is a lot of wonderment and even a kind of thrill at finding corroborating evidences carved in stone, almost contemporaneous with Biblical events. I am always amazed and appreciative of the experience that such a museum can provide to a Bible believer.
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Queen Esther in I'm spending this whole week at the British Museum. Any Questions?   
    Enjoy  your  wonderful  tour...  @JW Insider
  24. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Is it ok to boast?   
    @TrueTomHarley and @Matthew9969. I got a little off topic and forgot that my original point was going to be about the once-common claim that we are the only religion that gives TRUE charity.
    I know very personally that individuals have been counseled about giving to various charities, especially when they didn't realize the religious or political nature of some charities. If you suspect that your car might be on the verge of having more troubles than it's worth, but it still is worth several thousand in the "blue book" you might hear about a charity that gives "sight to the blind" or something like that and give it to the charity for a $5,000 receipt that you can use on your taxes. But one such charity has taken in millions of dollars by putting these cars up for auction and creating large-print "Old Testament" Bibles to send to people in Israel with poor eyesight. This is not a bad thing in itself, but one such charity apparently made millions for the family members in Brooklyn, NY who were involved, and they had not been able to provide proof that they ever sent more than ONE of these large-print Bibles. And charity scams became much more common again, especially bursting onto the scene again in 2008/9 with the great recession. But they have always been a part of the charity scene.
    I don't think we are wrong to point this out, although we don't go out of our way to denigrate charities. There was a time when we did. For years, the Watchtower could not mention charities without highlighting bad examples. The farther back you go toward the 1940's the more common this theme was. For example, here are some excerpts from an older Watchtower:
    *** w50 12/15 pp. 505-507 Religious Charity versus Good Works ***
    EVERY year hundreds of millions of dollars are contributed by the public to what are termed reputable, legitimate and worthy charities, many of which are sponsored by religious organizations. The question is, Should true Christians, who are under the godly commandments to do good, contribute to these supposedly humanitarian money-raising schemes? . . . But the question was, What was he going to do with what he had? How was he to use his wealth? Said Jesus: ‘If you give to the poor you will have treasure in heaven, provided you come and follow me.’ Thus it becomes clear that donating to charitable causes as a philanthropist is of no value in God’s sight unless one goes farther and becomes a true footstep follower of Jesus. It also appears that the possession of wealth is in itself of no particular harm. The question is, How is that wealth used? If you are rich in this world’s goods will you do what Jesus said? Are you willing to give up your material wealth and follow the course Jesus did, work in the interests of the poor and with the Kingdom message comfort those who mourn? . . . A blind beggar, sitting beside the road, cried out as Jesus passed by, “Have mercy on me.” Now, what did Jesus do, reach down and give the poor fellow a couple of Roman coins for a crust of bread? No, not at all. He gave him a far more valuable gift in restoring his eyesight! (Mark 10:46-52; Matt. 20:30-34; Luke 18:35-43) Jesus’ “charity” was not measured out in money to religious organizations for questionable distribution. . . . To the poor and downtrodden he untiringly preached the good news about God’s kingdom.—Matt. 11:5; Luke 7:22; 4:18. The apostles Peter and John followed a similar course when they came upon a poor cripple who requested a donation. “Peter said: ‘Silver and gold I do not possess, but what I do have is what I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!’ With that he took hold of him by the right hand and raised him up. Instantly the soles of his feet and his ankle bones were made firm, and, leaping up, he stood up and began walking, and he entered with them into the temple, walking and leaping and praising God.”—Acts 3:1-8, NW. GOOD WORKS, NOT ADVERTISED CHARITY The gaudy practice today of bestowing honor and praise on heavy contributors to charity drives is directly opposed to Jesus’ counsel. “But take care not to do your good deeds in public for people to see, for, if you do, you will get no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you are going to give to charity, do not blow a trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do, in the synagogues and the streets, to make people praise them. I tell you, that is all the reward they will get! But when you give to charity, your own left hand must not know what your right hand is doing, so that your charity may be secret, and your Father who sees what is secret will reward you.”—Matt. 6:1-4, AT. Judas Iscariot, one of those hypocrites that liked to make a show of his generosity, well represented those today that criticize Jehovah’s witnesses for not building hospitals, setting up food kitchens in slum areas. Such Judaslike ones announce with a blare of horns their personal gifts of mercy to the poor. The people have been robbed and beaten and left half-dead by the ruling elements of this world, just like the “certain man” that Jesus told about who fell among robbers on his way down to Jericho. The Catholic, Protestant and Jewish religionists have observed the spiritual condition of these poor people but have steered clear of them, held aloof and passed them by on the opposite side of the road. Jehovah’s witnesses, on the other hand, like good Samaritans, have searched out these spiritually sick, maimed and half-starved people and, when they were found, have bound up their wounds, have fed them and cared for their needs.—Luke 10:29-37. It is no secret, many so-called “charity” organizations operate a fraud and racket. For example, the New York Times, September 6, 1950, carried an account of how certain “religious charitable organizations” operating in Brooklyn, New York, are giving the poor only 15 per cent of the money they beg from the public. The other 85 per cent goes for what they call “overhead” expense. God’s faithful people cannot afford to donate to such organizations. They must use what they have to preach this gospel of the established Kingdom for the benefit of the poor everywhere, as commanded.—Matt. 24:14. It takes much time, energy and money to carry out this divine command, but Jehovah’s witnesses are happy to use their substance to do it. Investing their money in Bibles and other life-giving literature, they take these to the people at great personal expense. But this is really a sound investment on behalf of the poor, for by so doing Jehovah’s witnesses are storing up treasures in heaven and helping others to do the same thing. And just as the ancient brethren of Macedonia and Achaia contributed material things for their needy brethren at Jerusalem, so also do Jehovah’s witnesses. (Rom. 15:25, 26; Gal. 2:10) All of these things are good works done out of love for and to the honor of Jehovah God. I can't say that the above article says anything that is specifically wrong, but it does focus on how giving to charities is not TRUE charity in the way that our "good works" are true charity. Yet, there were many Bible verses that emphasized that good works actually referred to charitable giving alone, and NOT preaching the good news, which is a different, but necessary, type of giving. Even the parable of the good Samaritan had been re-explained (in separate Watchtower articles) so that it only applied to spiritual giving, not physical giving.
    I know this wasn't the theme of this particular topic, but it's a chance to make a scriptural point. Too often, we feel that our "good works" or "fine works" refer to the "public declaration of our hope," (Heb 10:23) the preaching of the "good news of the kingdom." (Mt 24:14) But these are separate from one of the primary reasons that we should be meeting together:
    (Hebrews 10:24, 25) 24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near. The "fine works" that we meet together to incite and encourage one another to do is the same phrase as "good works" elsewhere in the scriptures, and it refers to charitable actions and charitable activities. It's easy to lose sight of this if we think it means "preaching the good news."
     
  25. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Is it ok to boast?   
    @Matthew9969 We rarely talk about charity except for those related to us in the faith. But if we have limited resources for charity, then surely this is not unreasonable:
    (Galatians 6:10) 10 So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith. When we have spoken about charity, we don't claim to be the only ones who provide charity, although I know we have been quick to demean charitable organizations and religions who think that by their great works alone they will make it through the narrow gate. But this too may be based on some scriptural reasoning:
    (Matthew 7:22) 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not . . . perform many powerful works in your name?’ I recall counsel against giving to charitable organizations, especially religious charitable organizations. Whenever I asked my parents about it they would say that we were the only religion that provides TRUE charity.
    I don't recall much counsel against giving to charity after about 1990, and it seems to be about that time that we began more regularly announcing our own charitable works after disasters, and always regularly adding the fact that we not only gave to support our brothers in need and the rebuilding of local Kingdom Halls, but that there was more than enough left over to help non-JWs. I never lived in Oklahoma, but we had friends in OKC, and I was baptized at an assembly in Tulsa. Back in the 60's and early 70's, from our congregation in Missouri we sometimes helped out when Oklahoma had a bad tornado, and would take a pickup truck loaded with some old clothes, canned goods, 2x4s and a few squares of shingles. But I remember that the brother driving (who owned a small construction company) would just dump any bags of clothes that no one wanted and would even bring back any of the 2x4's or squares of shingles, which we could have given to those non-JWs who needed them much more. But except for some out-of-style neckties, and my old plaid suits that my mother wanted to give away anyway, I had no personal stake in the charity. And as I think about it, the brother who drove his truck had every right to hold back what the brothers didn't need. It was never his purpose to give to non-JWs. I questioned it at the time, but as I look back now, I have no problem with what he did.
    But I do remember that even then, the experiences of such events retold at the Circuit Assemblies almost always "bragged" that the brothers had given so much that we had plenty left over to give to other needy persons. I recall one such CA announcement about a tornado site that we were personally involved with, and the announcer never made the claim that we had plenty of leftovers to give to non-JWs, which was correct (sort-of). But the same announcement had at least a minute devoted to the fact that others had seen how well we looked after each other and how these onlookers had even come up to us and praised us for our cooperation and diligence putting God's love into action. It didn't occur to me then, but, over the years, having seen how these experiences are developed for assemblies especially, I now wonder whether onlookers had actually used any of those words.
    I would have to agree that bragging of an unnecessary nature has undoubtedly been behind several of such experiences. But there is also an element of wanting to build one another up, and show the positive side of every experience. Pointing out the numbers of hours and placements and number of pioneers can seem unnecessary too, but these are also encouragements. A brother at Bethel (D.Songer) actually used all these numbers adjusted seasonally and compared them with the timing of various literature campaigns to decide how many of any particular book, booklet or magazine to print. It therefore helped maximize the efficiencies of scale in production, but also avoided unnecessary waste.  This can be considered to be a part of being a good steward.
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