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JW Insider

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  1. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from SuziQ1513 in San Antonio, Texas Never Give Up Convention!   
    @Bible Speaks , 
    I hate to say it but you've fallen for another one. The sign is so obviously fake. The original actually says:
    Tires / LES SCHWAB -- Doing the right thing since 1952
     

  2. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    You must be new here. Most things JTR says has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and definitely not personally. And this is how those who reacted probably took it too, just JTR black humour. 
  3. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in San Antonio, Texas Never Give Up Convention!   
    @Bible Speaks , 
    I hate to say it but you've fallen for another one. The sign is so obviously fake. The original actually says:
    Tires / LES SCHWAB -- Doing the right thing since 1952
     

  4. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Not all of these recommendations were in the publications; some came from the talks during the circuit overseer's visit, and district overseers were encouraged to arrange special talks on the subject of 1975.  The May 1974 Kingdom Ministry was one of the publications that spoke to this issue directly. I'm quoting almost the entire article to give a better sense:
    *** km 5/74 p. 3-4 How Are You Using Your Life? ***
    . . . Are we not thankful that Jehovah God has purchased us and that we now belong to Him? . . . The apostle Peter noted that if we have the proper mental disposition we will be moved to “live the remainder of [our] time in the flesh, no more for the desires of men, but for God’s will.”—1 Pet. 4:2.
    Is that what you are doing? Are you living no longer simply to satisfy personal ambitions or desires, but to do God’s will? Are there ways in which you could share more fully in doing the will of God?
    God’s Will for Us
    Jehovah makes clear in his Word that his will for us today includes accomplishing a great work of Kingdom-preaching before the end of this system comes. (Matt. 24:14) . . . Jesus did not hold back, but was whole-souled in his service to God. . . . Jesus knew that he had only a short time, and he did not spare himself in finishing his assignment. Should we not today be imitating his example, especially since we have such a short time left now in which to complete the Kingdom-preaching?
    Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity? In this regard we can learn something from a runner who puts on a final burst of speed near the finish of a race. Look at Jesus, who apparently stepped up his activity during his final days on earth. In fact, over 27 percent of the material in the Gospels is devoted to just the last week of Jesus’ earthly ministry!—Matt. 21:1–27:50; Mark 11:1–15:37; Luke 19:29–23:46; John 11:55–19:30.
    By carefully and prayerfully examining our own circumstances, we also may find that we can spend more time and energy in preaching during this final period before the present system ends. Many of our brothers and sisters are doing just that. This is evident from the rapidly increasing number of pioneers.
    Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.—1 John 2:17.
    Circumstances such as poor health or responsibilities in connection with your family may limit what you can do in the field ministry. And yet, the pioneer ranks include many who have health limitations, as well as some persons with families. But these brothers and sisters are able to regulate their lives so that they can care for their responsibilities and still put in the 1,200 hours a year, an average of 100 hours a month in the field ministry, required of pioneers.
    Therefore, do not be too quick to dismiss the possibility that you, too, may be able to pioneer. Give it careful and prayerful consideration. Perhaps an analysis will reveal that your life is encumbered with needless weights that can be put off so that you can pioneer. Particularly may this be the case if you are single, or are married but have no children.—Heb. 12:1.
    So, then, ask yourself: How am I using my life? Can I make adjustments that will enable me to pioneer? If I can, will failure to do so indicate to Jehovah that I am living to satisfy personal desires, rather than to do His will? Every one of us wants to be able to say, as did the apostle Paul, “Indeed, the life that I now live in flesh I live by the faith that is toward the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me. I do not shove aside the undeserved kindness of God.” Gal. 2:20, 21. . . .
    So do not delay in giving serious consideration to this matter of how you are using your life. See if you can arrange your affairs to pioneer. Why not discuss the matter with persons already pioneering or with elders in your congregation?
    I was part of that 34% increase, one of the 20,394 who had started regular pioneering in the summer of 1973. It included a lot of persons just quitting high school at 16, 17, or having just graduated at 18. I was still 15 when I quit school, and got my diploma through a test when I was 16, which was the only way my father would let me pioneer -- if I already had a diploma and I met with the circuit overseer to talk about it first. The encouragement not to pursue further education came from the circuit overseer and from discussions of talks and of articles such as one below. The core point of the article is found in the two predictions. I added the years [in brackets] that would have gone through your head if you read this in 1969, which helped me decide to quit school in 1973.
    If you are a young person you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years.  . . .  Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, [1973] perhaps even six [1975] or eight more years [1977] to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone!"  -- Awake! May 22, 1969, page 14-15.
    At Bethel, the Awake! magazine was put into "MEPS" format back to 1950 at the same time as the Watchtower. This is what allowed the publications go into the first Watchtower Library CD's. In fact, if you call the Watchtower Society and ask them to look up something in the Awake! they actually use a Watchower Library CD that takes the Awake! back to 1946. I can't think of any reason they decided to take it only as far back as 1970 on the public CD except perhaps this article from 1969. The Watchtower goes back to 1950 on the public CD.
    I think it brings some reproach even to bring it up again without honestly explaining why people thought that they wouldn't grow old. They would have never just "thought" that on their own. They were specifically "told" that they would not grow old in this system. Bringing up these old issues at an assembly as a way to claim that it has now been addressed and to show a certain lesson that was learned from it is not helpful unless it's done openly and honestly. The lesson should probably be quite different than the lesson we are now told to learn from that time period. The lessons should probably be that we always let our reasonableness be known to all, and obey God as ruler rather than men, and never allow ourselves to think of any of our elders as if they were in the seat of Moses. Without those lessons, even though all the brothers mean well, it's easy to drift back into an attitude where we can forget our own personal responsibility towards Jehovah and the congregation.
    *** w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today ***
    (2) When “the Assyrian” attacks, the elders must be absolutely convinced that Jehovah will deliver us. (3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.
    *** w13 11/15 p. 24 par. 14 Obey Jehovah’s Shepherds ***
    To survive the tenth plague, the Israelites had to obey the instructions to have a special meal and to splash some of the blood of a slaughtered sheep on the doorposts and lintels of their houses. That direction did not come to them by means of a voice out of heaven. No, they had to listen to the older men of Israel, who in turn received specific instructions from Moses. (Ex. 12:1-7, 21-23, 29) In those circumstances, Moses and the older men acted as bearers of Jehovah’s instructions to his people. Christian elders fulfill a comparably vital function today.
    (Matthew 23:2) 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses.
    Even in a recent article with good information in it warning us against apostates, note how easy it is to slip into the idea that instructions are coming from our leaders instead of from our Leader.
    *** w17 July pp. 29-30 Winning the Battle for Your Mind ***
    A soldier whose loyalty to his leader is weakened will not fight well. So propagandists attempt to break bonds of confidence and trust between a soldier and his commander. They may use such propaganda as: “You cannot trust your leaders!” and “Do not let them lead you into disaster!” To add weight to these attacks, they may cleverly exploit any mistakes those leaders might make. Satan does this. He never gives up trying to undermine your confidence in the leadership that Jehovah has provided.
    Your defense? Be determined to stick to Jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface. (1 Thess. 5:12, 13) Do not be “quickly shaken from your reason” . . .
     
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Ezekiel Arrives Home After a Hard Day's Work in Israel   
    After Colombine, newspeople said that grief counselors had been dispatched, with the same air as they might use reporting that fire fighters had been dispatched to the house fire. “I’d love to hear what they have to say,” I told one woman in service. Her eyes got big. “You have an interesting job!” she exclaimed.
    But it’s not as interesting as Ezekiel’s.
    “Honey, I’m hooomme!”
    “Oh, Ezekiel. How was your day?”
    “Great! Today I bored a hole through the wall and carried out some luggage.”
    “Oh daddy, daddy,” the children come running to embrace him. “That sounds like fun. Can we do that?”
    “Ha, ha, you’ll have to ask your mother first. Remember, she didn’t like it much when you crayoned on that wall.”
    “How did you get that bump on your head, Ezekiel?”
    “My boss had me cover my face so that I couldn’t see where I was going. Some of the guys at the assignment – it really is a rebellious place – said that I should report him to OSHA! Some of the other guys asked me what it meant that I was doing.”
    “And what did you tell them?”
    “I told them it meant they were toast.”
    “Oh, honey, I’m so proud of you!”
    “Thank you, dear. It was almost as fun as my gig last week, lying on my side naked staring at a brick.”
    “It’s a wonder you didn’t catch your death of cold.”   
    I have a lot of comments I can make at the spiritual gems portion of the meeting this week. The trouble is, will any of them be 30 seconds or less? (Highlights from Ezekiel 12)
  6. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in A Fire Tornado in Australia - NEVER SEEN IN REAL !!   
    I know who started it . . . and he's also from Australia or thereabouts:

  7. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from bruceq in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    You'd think so, right?
    Sometimes I think that even if the Bible had already called Jesus "the king of kings" and "ruler of the kings of the earth" that it still wouldn't be enough.
  8. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Nana Fofana in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    You'd think so, right?
    Sometimes I think that even if the Bible had already called Jesus "the king of kings" and "ruler of the kings of the earth" that it still wouldn't be enough.
  9. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Juan Rivera in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Even before C.T.Russell was born, commentaries on Bible prophecy included  dozens of potential dates. Nearly 200 years ago, a couple of them even included 1914 as potentially significant time period. The "1914 presence" doctrine, however, is only about 75 years old.
    All the ideas behind the Watch Tower's version of the 1914 doctrine have already been discussed for decades now, and all of them, so far, have been shown to be problematic from a Scriptural point of view. Since the time that the doctrine generally took its current shape in 1943, the meanings and applications of various portions of Matthew 24 and 25 have already been changed, and the timing of various prophesied events and illustrations have changed. Most recently, the meaning and identification of the "faithful and discreet slave" has changed. And the definition of "generation" has changed about half-a-dozen times. This doesn't mean that the current understandings are impossible, of course, only that it has become less likely from the point of view of reason and reasonableness.
    Besides, for most of the years of teaching this doctrine, we have had the flexibility of extending the "1914 generation" from a possible 40 years, up to 70, then 75, then 80 years. And this has been applied to teenagers who saw 1914, 10-year-olds who saw 1914, then even newborns who saw 1914. With every one of these options already tried and stretched to their limits, we finally were forced to convert the meaning of generation from its most common meanings and give it a new "strained" meaning that has no other Biblical parallel. (See Exodus 1:6; Matthew 1:17; 16:4; 23:36; Luke 11:50)
    But that flexibility is still seen as the last reason for hope that the Watch Tower Society might have still been correct in hanging on to 1914. Since the Bible says that a lifespan is 70 or 80 years and 1914 + 80 = 1994, the "generation" doctrine in its original form (1943) could remain stable until about 1994. Of course, a lifespan could technically reach to 120 years or more, and Gen 6:3 even gives vague support to the idea that the "1914 generation" could last 120 years, until 2034.
    The current alternative solution is to make the generation out of the length of two lifespans, which technically could be double 120 years, or nearly 240 years from 1914. That would have had the potential to reach to the year 2154 (1914+240) except for the caveat that it can, by its new definition, only refer to anointed persons who discerned the sign in 1914 and whose lives overlapped (technically, by as little as one second) with the lifespan of another anointed person representing the second group. If persons from each group don't really discern their own "anointing" until age 20, for example, this would effectively remove 40 years from the overall maximum. 1914+120-20+120-20 = 2114. We could also assume a possible lifespan of more than 120 years, but otherwise, the new two-lifespan generation could potentially make the generation last 200 years. This "technical maximum" is not promoted currently, because for now we look at examples like Fred Franz who was part of that original generation already anointed and who saw the sign, and the typical example of an anointed brother who was apparently "anointed" prior to Franz' death in 1992 would be someone like Governing Body member, Brother Sanderson, who was born in 1965, baptized in 1975, and was already a "special pioneer" in 1991. His is currently 52.
    However, the generation problem is just one more problem now which we can add onto the list of all the other points that make up the 1914 doctrine. Here are several points related to 1914 that appear problematic from a Scriptural point of view:
    All evidence shows the 1914 date is wrong when trying to base it on the destruction of Jerusalem. (Daniel 1:1; 2 Chron 36:1-22; Jer 25:8-12; Zech 1:12, 7:4; Ezra 3:10-13) Paul said that Jesus sat at God's right hand in the first century and that he already began ruling as king at that time. (1 Cor 15:25) Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5) Jesus said that the "parousia" would be as visible as lightning (Matt 24:27). He spoke against people who might say he had returned but was currently not visible. (Matt 24:23-26) Jesus said that his "parousia" would come as a surprise to the faithful, not that they would discern the time of the parousia decades in advance. (Matt 24:36-42) Jesus said that the kingdom would not be indicated by "signs" (Luke 17:20, almost any translation except NWT in this case) The "synteleia" (end of all things together) refers to a concluding event, not an extended period of time (Matt 28:20) Jesus was already called ruler, King and even "King of Kings" in the first century. (1 Tim 6:15, Heb 7:2,17; Rev 1:5; 17:14) Wicked, beastly King Nebuchadnezzar's insanity and humiliation does not represent Jesus as the "lowliest one of mankind." (Heb 1:5,6; 2:10,11; Daniel 4:23-25; cf. Heb 2:7; 1 Pet 3:17,18) The demise of a Gentile kingdom cannot rightly represent the time of the rise of the Gentile kingdoms (Daniel 4:26,27) The Gentile kings did not meet their demise in 1914. (Rev 2:25,26) The time assigned to the Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24 is already given as 3.5 times, not 7 times (Revelation 11:2,3) The Devil was already brought down from "heaven" in the first century. (1 John 2:14,15; 1 Pet 5:8; Luke 10:18; Heb 2:14) The Bible says that the "last days" began in the first century. (Acts 2:14-20; 2 Tim 3:1-17; 1 Peter 3:3-5; Heb 1:2, almost any translation except NWT in this case.)
  10. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from The Librarian in A Fire Tornado in Australia - NEVER SEEN IN REAL !!   
    I know who started it . . . and he's also from Australia or thereabouts:

  11. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    Lending support to what you have said, one of the situations in that symposium to be endured was "humbling experiences," discussing Galatians 2:11-14. That certainly must have humbled Peter, who was among those taking the lead at the time. Still, he endured it, and continued to take the lead.
    I recall thinking then that the year would likely be the end of this system. However, as it wore on and nothing happened, it provoked no crisis. I dismissed it as 'one of those things.' I'm not sure why. Nor does it necessarily speak well for me. I simply was not tripped up in this instance.
     
  12. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Beautiful and spot on reasoning. Thanks for sharing. He sounds like a lovely brother, will have to go and read his story!
    Reminds me a little of another quote, by an equally astute and wise brother, which I have quoted before " Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"
  13. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    You sure sound like Allen Smith, he suggested something similar. However, no matter how you wish to turn it, the responsibility rested with the GB, who themselves admitted that the way they conveyed the idea became more a probability rather than a possibility at convention talks. Some still have tapes, or remember these talks where GB members spoke about 1975 as a probability.  Not only that, but as others on this forum have pointed out, WT publications assured its readers that we would not see the end of the 20th century before Armaggedon came. That is a fact because you can check these publications yourself.
  14. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in A Fire Tornado in Australia - NEVER SEEN IN REAL !!   
    One of the Looney Tunes, Warner Brothers cartoon characters called the Tasmanian Devil, or just "TAZ" for short, as in Charles "Taz" Russell. Since Tasmania is an Australian state, and Taz is not only a volatile, fiery personality, but he is often seen in "tornado" form, I just knew it had to be him.

  15. Confused
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in A Fire Tornado in Australia - NEVER SEEN IN REAL !!   
    I know who started it . . . and he's also from Australia or thereabouts:

  16. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from SuziQ1513 in San Antonio, Texas Never Give Up Convention!   
    Found a better image... sorry it's so big.

  17. Confused
    JW Insider got a reaction from Carol Ann Torres in San Antonio, Texas Never Give Up Convention!   
    @Bible Speaks , 
    I hate to say it but you've fallen for another one. The sign is so obviously fake. The original actually says:
    Tires / LES SCHWAB -- Doing the right thing since 1952
     

  18. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in San Antonio, Texas Never Give Up Convention!   
    I give up!
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Melinda Mills in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    Quite a memorable exchange. In the US/English, this was the 1977 yb p.81-83. Also mentioned in the 1979 yb, p.35.
    Nice post! Thanks for taking a break from your break.
  20. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    Quite a memorable exchange. In the US/English, this was the 1977 yb p.81-83. Also mentioned in the 1979 yb, p.35.
    Nice post! Thanks for taking a break from your break.
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from The Librarian in Jehovahs witnesses and higher education   
    Going to college and hoping to survive it is like putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger to commit suicide and inadvertently surviving and blowing away the part of your brain that was making you think you should commit suicide in the first place.
    Or is he saying?
    Choosing to go to college is like choosing to commit suicide by shooting yourself in the head and then excusing your suicidal actions by pointing out that at least one person you know survived a bullet to the brain and even lived a better life after the suicide attempt.
    The first option sounds like college has the uncanny ability to solve even the most serious problems with surgical precision. Of course, he actually means the second option.
     
    If you are already in college, we won't tell you to drop out, but we commend you if you do.
  22. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Yes I remember such talks, but they were not the only talks I heard.
    I suppose I was spoilt early on for this sort of pressure.  I learnt two things (which may or may not be orthodox), but they have stood me in good stead and, I believe, have served to prevent me from being quickly shaken from my reason or to be alarmed. (2Thess.2:2)
    1. I shared lodgings with for a while with Hendry Carmichael, (Yearbook 1977 p81-83). I learned many things from this zealous, Glaswegian brother. He once said to me, with his twinkling blue eyes a-sparkle, "You know laddie, your Armageddon came the day you heard the good news, because what you do with it will make an everlasting difference to your future!".
    2. Over the years, I have been blessed with many, wonderful bible studies who have progressed to dedication and baptism, including a woman who is now my wife and pioneer partner. She said to me recently that it sadddens her sometimes to hear that the end is as imminent as many brothers emphasize. I know what she means. If the end had come in 1975, she would not have found the truth. (And nor me, her). And when it does come, there will be no others to save out of this wicked world. I know the resurrection will afford unimaginable opportunities to help people learn the truth of God's puposes, but we are meeting new ones all the time now, and starting new studies, in a part of the world I was told is "unproductive"!
    So what am I saying? Well, my Armageddon (figurative of course), has long come and gone, and I am making every effort to ensure that when the real one does, I am rightly disposed for everlasting life.(Acts 13:48). And as far as the time left is concerned? Well, every day in this system of things, lives are being saved in evidence of Jehovah's patience. (Ex.18:23) And we can have as much a share in this as our volunteer sprit impels. (2Cor.9:6-7) There is no organisation on earth that facilitates this work in the way that Jehovah's Witnesses do. (Mich.4:1-2)
    And that I think, for me anyway, captures the essence of 1Tim.4:16: "Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you."
  23. Like
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Thanks for the response. I tagged your name there in case I had it wrong. You might have been enlightened through a yoga epiphany or something you read, after all.
    Yes, it was "merely" the end of 6,000 years but with an important catch that every circuit overseer repeated at each visit for a while there. Whenever Eve was created, that's when the 6th day ended. The great tribulation would start exactly 6,000 years from Eve's creation. So we'd get talks about how Adam had ONLY ONE JOB! To name the animals. And he didn't have to go to them, they came to him. After seeing all the animals he recognized he needed a mate, too. It could have been a matter of months, or even weeks, NOT YEARS!
    *** w68 8/15 p. 499 par. 30 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
    And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
    If it was not years then, in standard English, it could be one year, possibly 1.1 to 1.9 years, but must be less than two years. This was why the Awake! article indirectly mentioned 1977 as a time when this system would be well on its way out, if not actually gone. This is saying that it probably must happen before October 1977. Whether you put the emphasis on the "probably" or the "must" was a kind of a test of how mature you were, or how much you trusted the Governing Body. (In those days the Governing Body was still just another name for the  "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society."
    So everything fit so well, because the generation of 1914 should have been at least 10 to 15 years old by 1914 to "discern" the significance of the sign. That meant they were born around 1900. That meant they were going to be about 75 years old by 1975. A Biblical lifespan is 70 or 80; so that's also about 75. So, not just the end of the 6,000 years, but the year 1975 itself, became the "appropriate time for God to act." At the very worst, in the mind of Fred Franz and those willing to echo him, it meant no more than 5 years past 1975. This is why we got articles that said "What will the 1970's bring?" And that article talking about it being a matter of a few "months" at the most "not years" after 1975. Even with a few "age" adjustments for the 1914 generation, several of the publications and assembly talks continued to mention that this system of things could not go on past the end of the twentieth century. That type of talk lasted until 1989.
    For all I know, I did much better than I might have otherwise. At any rate, I have enjoyed all aspects of service, an my only complaint in life right now is stiff knees, and I never get enough sleep. But I still feel badly for those who made decisions without proper guidance, context, support, and who were left without a back-up plan. We have to at least participate in the responsibility of our decisions anyway.
    *** w14 4/15 pp. 25-26 par. 17 Be of Good Courage—Jehovah Is Your Helper! ***
    17 Seek Jehovah’s direction before you make decisions and commitments, not after making them. Pray for his holy spirit, wisdom, and guidance. (2 Tim. 1:7) Ask yourself: ‘Under what circumstances am I willing to obey Jehovah? Even under persecution?’ If so, are you willing to obey him when it may mean having to lower your standard of living? (Luke 14:33) Ask the elders for Scriptural advice, and show your faith and trust in Jehovah’s promise to help you by following his counsel. The elders cannot make decisions for you, but they can help you make choices that will lead to happiness in the long run.—2 Cor. 1:24.
     
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Thanks JWInsider. I am familiar with the publications you quoted and the article in the KM. I asked that question purposefully because I was not aware that there had been any publications that actually "recommended that we sell our belongings". I thought maybe I had missed one. However, as you pointed out, the insinuations were definitely there, if only because of the praise for those who had done so. This is why I find the video from the convention so curious. I listened to it again and here is the transcript from it (video part of the talk "How you can by no means ever fail") :
    The setting, the father is relating his story of how when his wife died and thereafter
    “With Jehovah’s help, and with the support of the brothers and sisters we got through it (the death of his wife). We learned to rely on Jehovah in ways we never had before. And that helped when years later another test came our way. You see, back then, some were looking to a certain date (1975) as signifying the end of this old system. A few went even so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs. I admit, I was ready to see this old system go away too, but something just didn’t seem right. Both at meetings, and in my personal study, I was reminded of what Jesus said: Nobody knows the day or the hour. I was dedicated to Jehovah, not a date. After that year came and went, most of those who had wrong expectations made the needed adjustments and they stayed.  We didn’t run away and we didn’t give up. We trusted in Jehovah”.
    So, what is the moral of the story? Since at that time those who had sold their homes and gave up their job were held up as a good example, as per the aforementioned KM,  my thoughts are that the GB is reminding us that they make mistakes, and that ultimately, when it comes to the crunch, if something doesn’t seem right, then the scriptures take precedent, (as attested to also by Geoffrey Jackson in his response to a question at the ARC hearing: "So our primary allegiance is to Jehovah God.  Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction") and a reminder that our dedication is to Jehovah and not to them, and that ultimately we can trust no man, only Jehovah.  Including remembering the key scriptures associated with the talk, 2 Peter 1:5-10, Isaiah 40:31, 2 Corinthians 4:7, 9,16 THAT in a nutshell is how we can “By No Means Ever Fail”  @bruceq
    Otherwise you and  @TrueTomHarley I think have pretty much covered most of the points to do with indirect suggestions and "guilting" at that time.  "You have health problems? Family responsibilities? No excuse! Let's listen to this experience from [someplace] where a hearing and sight-impaired mother of 10 with no arms and legs got her kids ready for school every day and then put in 8 hours of service"  Just about cracked me up!
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I feel bound to respond in that I have been quoted.
    The orientation that I received way back then in 1972 was definitely "the right thing" in that it expressed a view, already in circulation, that I was not aware of at the time,  namely, that the date of 1975 was merely the (currently understood) end of 6000 years of man's existence. Nothing more. It had just been rather eclipsed by the more sensational (to some) 1975 speculation about "the great tribulation".
    I note that you have not expressed regret at having entered full-time service at a young age, in spite of the rather biased considerations:
    I haven't personally met any faithful servants of Jehovah that have expressed regrets about engaging in the pioneer ministry, regardless of their having been possibly prompted at first by chronological expectations that may have been a product of wishful thinking rather than God's spirit. I have, however,  met a few who no longer serve Jehovah and who have voiced regrets both regarding pioneering and early end time speculations.
    It occurs to me that, apart from the clear warnings of obvious deviancy in the Christian congregation in the words of Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude, and Jesus; we don't really know much about the eccentric side of the 1st Century Christians. The terse record of inspired Scripture fulfils the requirement of 2Tim 3:16 to completly equip, and I am sure the presence of the apostles and the operation of God's Spirit minimised the uncoventional. But, in view of James's observation that only perfect men can avoid verbal stumbling, I am sure a few "kooky" ideas circulated in those 66 or so years in the 1st century before the apostasy took off.
    And considering the literaly 1000s and 1000s of pages of information that have been produced in the last 140 years by only a comparatively few minds in our movement, without the safeguards of the 1st Century, surely among those many, many words, trangression cannot be avoided? (Pro10:19).
    I think though, before we get overly righteous about dates and their effect on motivation, we need to remember the general principles found in Paul's words at Rom 9:17 regarding our preaching: "If I do this willingly, I have a reward; but even if I do it against my will, I still have a stewardship entrusted to me". and correct motivation: "Therefore, let those of us who are mature be of this mental attitude, and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you". Ph.3:15. (This, notwithstanding the immediate, contextual application).
     
     
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