JW Insider

Well....it's true. But bits and bytes are cheap.
I do apologize to you, though. You are engaging with a slightly different aim and approach, and I allow myself to be distracted sometimes. I appreciate your bringing all of your talents to bear.
Sometimes I must limit my participation in this or that thread (not this one) rather than 'shooting from the hip.' If I am not prepared to follow comments reasonably closely, which I often am not - sometimes because I regard them as blowhards,  sometimes because I simply do not have the time, sometimes because I don't want to go the way of Jehosaphat, sometimes because I really ought be doing other things - I ought not intrude with flippant remarks of which I am not prepared to follow through. 
Though sometimes I throw in remarks just to see where it goes. Sometimes it goes places. Other times it dies an instant death.

Now you're thinking. (I couldn't upvote as the JTR thing is wasting time and space). 

How good is the evidence that the Christian Scriptures contained YHWH or some variation of that Divine Name?
There are probably some non-JWs who believe that there is absolutely no reason at all to even entertain the possibility, and there are probably some JWs who believe manuscripts have already been found with YHWH in the NT.  For most of us, the real answer lies somewhere in between. There is a lot of good research on the issue, and this research might be interesting to some of us, whether or not it is compelling enough for anyone to change their mind.
A previous discussion on the topic became very long and veered off into other topics, too. Hopefully, this attempt will not result in multiple topics or judgmental attitudes about people, and we can focus on the validity of the research itself.
If anyone wishes to participate, they should feel free to copy anything they wrote in a previous thread. A topic about YHWH in the NT will likely also include topics about the pronunciation of YHWH, YHWH in the OT (LXX, Masoretic, DSS, and other manuscripts), the earliest NT and OT meanings of "name," historical linguistic trends, Greek abbreviations, NT translations, usage by early "Ante-Nicene Fathers," and the various alternatives to YHWH, and comments made by anyone else that might seem partly relevant or interesting (Philo, Josephus, Ebionites, Talmud, Gnostics, etc.). It's still a big topic.
The arguments that many find relevant are found in Gerard Gertoux, which can be seen here: http://areopage.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Gertoux_UseNameEarlyChristians.pdf
He references G. Howard, of course, which might even be a better place to start. (HOWARD, Biblical Archaeology Review Vol IV, No. 1). His ideas can be found online here: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3265328?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 

Starting with the basics, we have a quote like the following from the source: "The Divine Name Yahweh" already mentioned above. For ease of reading I'll transliterate instead of merely trying to reproduce Hebrew and Greek characters.
THE proper name for God as the covenant God of Israel is represented by the tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH). The original pronunciation is uncertain. By inference from its contracted forms in compound names -- יו (YW) or יהו (YHW) at the beginning, or יה (YH) or יהו (YHW) at the end1 -- it appears to have been pronounced Yahweh, and this is confirmed by independent testimony to its transliteration as 'Iabe2 or 'Iaoue.3 The tetragrammaton occurs some 5321 times in the OT and a separate short form of the divine name  יה (YH), 25 times.4
We count 6,823 instances of YHWH rather than 5,321. But in general we agree with the ideas mentioned. The Foreword in the1950 NWT says that Yahweh is preferred as more accurate, although Jehovah is kept for recognizability and consistency.
The footnotes included in this quote might be good for future reference:
1For the philological reasons for connecting these forms with יהוה, see J. Olshausen, Lehrb. d. hebr. Sprache, p. 611; B. Stade, Hebrew Grammar, par. 113; S. R. Driver, Studia Biblica, 1, pp. 4-6.
2Pronounced so by the Samaritans according to Theodoret of Cyros. See Quaestio 15 in Exod 7: kalousi de auto Samareitei IABE, 'Ioudaioi de AIA
3So Clement of Alexandria. See Strom. 5, 6, 34: to tetragrammon onoma to musticon ho periekeinto hois monois to aduton basimon en legetai de 'Iaoue.
4The forms יהו and יהה (probably erroneous) are found in the Elephantine Papyri.
I should mention that it's likely that in a discussion of this type, that either form, "Yahweh" or "Jehovah," will be used interchangeably. I prefer Jehovah as a common usage pronunciation, but as stated in another recent thread even the Watch Tower publications have said that Yah-weh' is likely more accurate:
*** New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, 1950, Foreword, p.25 ***
While inclining to view the pronunciation "Yah-weh'"
as the more correct way, we have retained the form
"Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it since
the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves, equally with
other forms, the four letters of the tetragrammaton
JHVH.
 
 

How good is the evidence that the Christian Scriptures contained YHWH or some variation of that Divine Name?
There are probably some non-JWs who believe that there is absolutely no reason at all to even entertain the possibility, and there are probably some JWs who believe manuscripts have already been found with YHWH in the NT.  For most of us, the real answer lies somewhere in between. There is a lot of good research on the issue, and this research might be interesting to some of us, whether or not it is compelling enough for anyone to change their mind.
A previous discussion on the topic became very long and veered off into other topics, too. Hopefully, this attempt will not result in multiple topics or judgmental attitudes about people, and we can focus on the validity of the research itself.
If anyone wishes to participate, they should feel free to copy anything they wrote in a previous thread. A topic about YHWH in the NT will likely also include topics about the pronunciation of YHWH, YHWH in the OT (LXX, Masoretic, DSS, and other manuscripts), the earliest NT and OT meanings of "name," historical linguistic trends, Greek abbreviations, NT translations, usage by early "Ante-Nicene Fathers," and the various alternatives to YHWH, and comments made by anyone else that might seem partly relevant or interesting (Philo, Josephus, Ebionites, Talmud, Gnostics, etc.). It's still a big topic.
The arguments that many find relevant are found in Gerard Gertoux, which can be seen here: http://areopage.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Gertoux_UseNameEarlyChristians.pdf
He references G. Howard, of course, which might even be a better place to start. (HOWARD, Biblical Archaeology Review Vol IV, No. 1). His ideas can be found online here: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3265328?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 

Let's hope that no one here even inadvertently gives that impression.
How about completely abolishing unscriptural celibacy requirements for starters?
with
This is interesting. It is indeed a worldwide plague. So anyone, institution or individual, denying this fact is really deluded. Reminds me of Chechnya’s leader, Ramzan Kadyrov, who denies that persecution of gay men is taking place in Chechnya, saying there are no gay men living in the republic to be persecuted.
Noticeable too is the institutional pride that serves as an obstacle to combatting the plague even if recognised, exemplified in such responses as "other institutions have a worse record than ours" or "our awareness is higher, or policy is better, than theirs". Meanwhile the problem remains, still affecting all, regardless.
So is the crime the plague? Or is it the criminal?, or are these just symptoms of something deeper?
To be continued.....(I'm sure)

I used my immense powers, based on "fearsomeness," and yes, even my newfound "Glory" to get the title of this thread changed. Actually, it really was based on the good counsel of AllenSmith a.k.a. JWTheologian.

How about:
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never buy things from Goodwill [Salvation Army, etc]?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never say the word "lucky" ["fortunate", etc.]?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never feed live food to their pets?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses still think that 1918 had to be the year that the apostle Paul (for example) was resurrected?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never step into a church as a tourist even it houses a museum or interesting art and architecture?
Etc.
You lose the point about "classic" JWs from the 1970's. But you can always try to make that point separately, if it's really true.
If that fourth one up there "throws" anybody, some Witnesses evidently read less dogmatic statements in recent Watchtowers as if they are only "toned down" for the newcomers, when the old ideas about 1918 (or, Russia as King of the North, etc.) are still "accurate knowledge."
 

At about 4:50 pm, yesterday, WNYC introduced a story with a lead that included something like: 'Next, we'll discuss the purchase of the Watchtower buildings and Jared Kushner.'
At the time it was on the radio, Kushner had not yet been made a part of the FBI story that gained traction to be a bigger part of the political news just a couple hours later.
This story does not reflect negatively on the Watchtower, of course.
But there is no doubt that if this particularly venture fails as one of Kushner's bad deals (he's made other bad deals along with good ones) the Watchtower will continue to be mentioned. (A comedian, John Oliver, spoke of these bad deals while making fun of the Watchtower deal just a couple weeks ago. He used Kushner's quotes about what he wanted to do with the Watchtower buildings, but Oliver never mentioned the "Watchtower" itself.) What makes some people worry about Kushner's deal, is that Kushner buys the Watchtower's multi-block complex down by the Brooklyn Bridge for more than a third of a BILLION dollars. Then he gives the Watchtower Society even MORE, another third of a BILLION, for a single parking lot!
 

Moved once and then removed. Thought they might put it on the Watchtower's real estate site, but it's not there either. I think this whole real estate site gets removed soon,  so it's the last time to play with function that lets you fly all over Brooklyn Heights and look at the 360-degree views.
https://watchtowerbrooklynrealestate.com/
You can even imagine what that parking lot will look like with a rust-colored translucent glass building on the lot.
 
 
 
 

At about 4:50 pm, yesterday, WNYC introduced a story with a lead that included something like: 'Next, we'll discuss the purchase of the Watchtower buildings and Jared Kushner.'
At the time it was on the radio, Kushner had not yet been made a part of the FBI story that gained traction to be a bigger part of the political news just a couple hours later.
This story does not reflect negatively on the Watchtower, of course.
But there is no doubt that if this particularly venture fails as one of Kushner's bad deals (he's made other bad deals along with good ones) the Watchtower will continue to be mentioned. (A comedian, John Oliver, spoke of these bad deals while making fun of the Watchtower deal just a couple weeks ago. He used Kushner's quotes about what he wanted to do with the Watchtower buildings, but Oliver never mentioned the "Watchtower" itself.) What makes some people worry about Kushner's deal, is that Kushner buys the Watchtower's multi-block complex down by the Brooklyn Bridge for more than a third of a BILLION dollars. Then he gives the Watchtower Society even MORE, another third of a BILLION, for a single parking lot!
 

From http://www.wnyc.org/story/trump-kushner-little-known-business-partner

Donald Trump and Jared Kushner Meet With Business Leaders, January22 2017
(Pablo Martinez Monsivais/Associated Press / Associated Press)     May 25, 2017 · by Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Marritz The Watchtower in Brooklyn Heights is one of the most noticeable edifices in New York. It’s a complex of buildings on a bluff above the East River, with a sign on top that flashes the time and temperature. It used to be the world headquarters of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
But today, workers are preparing to give it a makeover. Like so much else in Brooklyn, the Watchtower has been sold to developers. It changed hands last August, shortly after Donald Trump accepted the Republican nomination for President.
The timing is relevant, because the buyer was Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. At $340 million, Kushner’s purchase of the Watchtower was one of the biggest real estate transactions in Brooklyn history.
Kushner didn’t buy the Watchtower alone. He had help from a company called CIM Group, a private equity firm based in Los Angeles. Over the years, documents show, CIM has done at least seven real estate deals that have benefited Trump and the people around him, including Kushner. Those deals included stabilizing the scandal-plagued Trump SoHo hotel, a key Manhattan holding for Trump and his children Ivanka, Eric, and Donald Jr.
At the same time, records show, CIM Group, with approximately $19.7 billion under management, has pursued an array of lucrative government contracts, pension investments, lobbying interests, and a global infrastructure fund, all of whose fortunes could benefit from a Trump presidency.
While both Kushner and Trump have distanced themselves from their businesses, neither man has divested. Ethics experts including Kathleen Clark of the Washington University School of Law say that because of the two men’s ongoing business interests, the web of connections with CIM is troubling, even if no laws are broken.
“Trump gives new meaning to the idea what’s good for Donald Trump is apparently good for America,” Clark said. “He doesn’t actually seem to have a conception of the public interest outside of himself or his company or his family. That’s astounding.”
The White House declined to comment for this story, but in the past has defended Trump and Kushner’s business ties, saying they’ve been vetted and are in compliance with laws and regulations. CIM declined to comment on potential conflicts.
What is CIM?
CIM Group is certainly known at the top echelons of New York real estate. But the company itself — its character, its founders — seem to leave few traces beyond the properties in which it invests.
“CIM stands out as being very secretive,” said Konrad Putzier, a reporter for the Real Deal magazine and website who has covered the company for several years. “The fact that we don’t even know what CIM stands for says it all.”
A spokesman said in an email "CIM stands for CIM…that is all."
CIM was founded in Los Angeles in 1994 by Shaul Kuba and Avi Shemesh, two Israelis, and Richard Ressler, a former New Yorker with private equity in his family — his brother Tony Ressler co-founded industry giant Apollo Global Management with his brother-in-law, Leon Black.
CIM’s strategy is to get good returns for investors by investing in undervalued urban real estate. The firm quickly became known in California for courting influential politicians and donating tens of thousands of dollars to a series of statewide political action committees.
In 2004, the firm acquired a package of properties that included the Kodak Theatre (now the Dolby Theatre) in Hollywood, where the Academy Awards are held. They purchased the real estate at a deep discount, after the previous owner ran into financial difficulties.
A few years later, CIM persuaded the city of Los Angeles to arrange a $30 million HUD loan to reconfigure the theater to stage shows from Cirque du Soleil. The arrangement was supposed to last a decade and generate hundreds of millions of dollars in new economic activity. Cirque’s show, however, fizzled after little more than a year.
CIM has plenty of friends in Los Angeles, but it also has plenty of critics. Dennis Zine, a retired police officer and former city councilman, helped the company win the right to develop the derelict Reseda Cinema, which appeared in the opening sequence of Boogie Nights. Zine said CIM promised big things, but then neglected the project, embarrassing him in the process.
“They burned their bridge with me,” Zine said.
CIM Moves into New York
Throughout the early 2000’s, CIM kept rolling up cash, in part by drawing investments from public pension funds like those in New York State  and California. In 2010, when CIM made its first foray into New York, the two states had more than a billion dollars with CIM. Neither pension fund would discuss the reasons for their investments.
It was a great time for investors with an appetite for risk and the potential big payouts. The financial crisis had wiped out big banks like Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers. Those that were still around were barely lending, and many New York developers were struggling to pay their bills.
One of those was Harry Macklowe, who had acquired the site of the old Drake Hotel in Midtown Manhattan but lacked the money to build. Court records show Macklowe had tried to work out a deal to finance the project with Paul Manafort, who would later become Trump’s campaign manager, and a Ukrainian oligarch named Dmitry Firtash who had friendly relations with the Russian leader Vladimir Putin. But those negotiations went nowhere.
Then, in January 2010, CIM partnered with Macklowe to erect what is now known as 432 Park Avenue, the tallest residential tower in the Western Hemisphere.  One unit later sold for $95 million.
Later that year, CIM saw another opportunity: the Trump SoHo.
Though the condo-hotel project had been announced on “The Apprentice” finale in 2006, it was troubled from the start. Neighbors were immediately alarmed and upset with the idea of an outsized tower in the low-rise, chic district.
Andrew Berman, executive director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, recalled that the project was plagued with problems. He said there were “deadly construction accidents, bodies being exhumed on the site from a 19th century abolitionist church, falling objects from the building.”
Just after a gala ribbon-cutting for the Trump SoHo in the fall of 2007, the New York Times reported that one of principals in the building partnership, Felix Sater, had been convicted of assault for cutting a man with a broken margarita glass in a bar fight. He’d pled guilty to a stock fraud scheme. Another principal, Kazakh-born Tevfik Arif,was arrested on child-prostitution charges in Turkey. He was later acquitted.
It was, as Berman described it, “just an endless array of scandals and connections between the financiers and Russian and Central Asian mobs.”
Condo buyers sued Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump, Eric Trump, and Donald Trump Jr., saying they lied about how many units had been sold. The Manhattan District Attorney began investigating whether there had been criminal fraud. The lawsuit was eventually settled, with the plaintiffs required to sign non-disclosure agreements. With few witnesses, the D.A. dropped its probe.
By 2010, the partners behind Trump SoHo, were falling behind on their construction loans, and the lenders were threatening foreclosure.
That’s when CIM stepped in with a reported $85 million lifeline.
Important Partners
The same month CIM saved Trump SoHo, December 2010, CIM bailed out the project’s  co-developer, Tamir Sapir, on two other properties he owned: 11 Madison Avenue and the William Beaver House in Lower Manhattan. In all, CIM spent more than a half-billion dollars and gained a stake in some prime New York City properties.
“There was a short window of opportunity that they just seized,” said the Real Deal’s Putzier.
CIM also soon embarked on its first venture with Kushner, an office building at 200 Lafayette Street. The New York Post reported that when they sold the building in 2013 — after $30 million in renovations — the new buyer paid three times as much as Kushner and CIM had initially invested. CIM and Kushner also appeared to turn a quick profit on another jointly-purchased office building, 2 Rector Street.
“The connection with Kushner, it’s very fitting,” Putzier said. He noted that the Kushner Companies own 20,000 apartments and 13 million square feet of office and industrial space, “but...they’re a family company, so when they do a lot of deals they usually need a partner with a lot of equity to help them, and that has often been CIM Group.”
Kushner Companies agrees. In a statement, President Laurent Morali — who replaced Jared Kushner as the firm’s top executive after Kushner went to work in the White House — said “CIM is a strong longstanding partner with a developer’s DNA. They can work through complicated situations, are thorough and strategic, yet also make quick decisions.”  The feeling is mutual: CIM said in a statement that it has “strong, collaborative relationship with the team at Kushner, which has proven to be a valuable local partner.”
CIM also said it “has only one business relationship with a Trump-related company” — the Trump SoHo. The Trump Organization declined to comment for this story; it manages the property under the terms of a licensing agreement.
"The headline attraction of being somehow even tacitly aligned with the President of the United States could provide an incredible fundraising opportunity if they play it right, if they spin it the right way," said Serge Reda an adjunct professor at Fordham Business School. While the specifics of CIM's pitch to investors are unknown, Reda said it would be expected that a private equity firm would discuss its record.
When CIM started making deals with the Trumps and the Kushners, its executives had no idea their business partners would one day occupy the Oval Office. But now they do, and ethics experts say that puts CIM’s connections to the First Family and its significant government business dealings in a new light.
The full extent of CIM’s government ties is not known; much of its business is private, though some investments are publicly traded. In public disclosures, CIM said it received annualized rent of $37.7 million from the General Services Administration and other federal agencies. The company said that losing business from a downsized government "could have a material adverse effect."
CIM also depends on the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program, which provides a path for foreign investors in American real estate to obtain U.S. green cards. According to the non-partisan research group Opensecrets.org, CIM spent $430,000 on federal lobbying in 2015, putting it among the top ten real estate firms lobbying on that issue. CIM listed preserving the EB-5 program as a major lobbying priority.
This is the same program that Jared Kushner’s sister Nicole Meyer, one of his siblings who now runs the family business, was recently promoting in China.
There’s one more program CIM might benefit from, which could dwarf its profits from EB-5, rents or pensions. According to SEC disclosures, CIM has an infrastructure investment fund which it acknowledges is sensitive to “regulation” and “political events.”  If Trump gets an infrastructure bill passed, funds like this could earn many millions from projects like roads and tunnels.
Kushner is at the center of the administration’s building plans. In March, the White House announced that he would head an “Office of American Innovation” whose mandates include “creating transformational infrastructure projects.”
"Whether the parties are doing something untoward or not, the situation creates doubt, and it will follow the President throughout his term as long as he owns his business," said Jordan Libowitz, a spokesperson for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington or CREW. "It’s a question we shouldn’t be having to ask.” His group is suing the president for violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
Last December, as the president-elect was preparing to move to the White House, the firm did one more deal with Trump-world: CIM helped Kushner Companies buy 85 Jay Street, a parking lot in Brooklyn, for an eye-popping $345 million.  
Watch that space.
http://www.wnyc.org/story/trump-kushner-little-known-business-partner

If one were to start with a blank slate on this subject, we might start with all the different "names" by which God is called in the Bible. One might also look at all the names that start with "Jeh..." or "El..." or "Adon.." or "Baal..." all those that end with those same letters ("...jah" "...el" "...baal"). Of course, you'll also come across some special cases, too, like Adonijah, Elijah. One might also compare all the variations of similar language (and quotations) across several books of the Bible to get a sense of the historical trends with divine names and secular names containing divine names.
Of course, that might take some time, which is why it's nice to find research where other people have already done things like that. And since even the "best" of research is not always accurate, it's nice to find multiple sources and critical reviews, and feedback from others when something we might have overlooked just doesn't quite ring true to someone else.
For the first step, I thought it might be good to go to a couple of well respected Jewish sources to help understand the thinking behind most Jewish scholars when they develop teachings about "YHWH" in their own language. I found several, but wanted to start with what can be learned from these two sources, because they both reference several Jewish and Hebrew-based sources:
THE NAME OF GOD, A STUDY IN RABBINIC THEOLOGY
Author(s): SAMUEL S. COHON
Source: Hebrew Union College Annual, Vol. 23, No. 1, Hebrew Union College Seventy-fifthAnniversary Publication 1875-1950 (1950-1951), pp. 579-604
Published by: Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion
THE DIVINE NAME YAHWEH
Author(s): Raymond Abba
Source: Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 80, No. 4 (Dec., 1961), pp. 320-328
Published by: The Society of Biblical Literature

How good is the evidence that the Christian Scriptures contained YHWH or some variation of that Divine Name?
There are probably some non-JWs who believe that there is absolutely no reason at all to even entertain the possibility, and there are probably some JWs who believe manuscripts have already been found with YHWH in the NT.  For most of us, the real answer lies somewhere in between. There is a lot of good research on the issue, and this research might be interesting to some of us, whether or not it is compelling enough for anyone to change their mind.
A previous discussion on the topic became very long and veered off into other topics, too. Hopefully, this attempt will not result in multiple topics or judgmental attitudes about people, and we can focus on the validity of the research itself.
If anyone wishes to participate, they should feel free to copy anything they wrote in a previous thread. A topic about YHWH in the NT will likely also include topics about the pronunciation of YHWH, YHWH in the OT (LXX, Masoretic, DSS, and other manuscripts), the earliest NT and OT meanings of "name," historical linguistic trends, Greek abbreviations, NT translations, usage by early "Ante-Nicene Fathers," and the various alternatives to YHWH, and comments made by anyone else that might seem partly relevant or interesting (Philo, Josephus, Ebionites, Talmud, Gnostics, etc.). It's still a big topic.
The arguments that many find relevant are found in Gerard Gertoux, which can be seen here: http://areopage.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Gertoux_UseNameEarlyChristians.pdf
He references G. Howard, of course, which might even be a better place to start. (HOWARD, Biblical Archaeology Review Vol IV, No. 1). His ideas can be found online here: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3265328?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 

How about:
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never buy things from Goodwill [Salvation Army, etc]?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never say the word "lucky" ["fortunate", etc.]?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never feed live food to their pets?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses still think that 1918 had to be the year that the apostle Paul (for example) was resurrected?
Why do some Jehovah's Witnesses never step into a church as a tourist even it houses a museum or interesting art and architecture?
Etc.
You lose the point about "classic" JWs from the 1970's. But you can always try to make that point separately, if it's really true.
If that fourth one up there "throws" anybody, some Witnesses evidently read less dogmatic statements in recent Watchtowers as if they are only "toned down" for the newcomers, when the old ideas about 1918 (or, Russia as King of the North, etc.) are still "accurate knowledge."
 

At about 4:50 pm, yesterday, WNYC introduced a story with a lead that included something like: 'Next, we'll discuss the purchase of the Watchtower buildings and Jared Kushner.'
At the time it was on the radio, Kushner had not yet been made a part of the FBI story that gained traction to be a bigger part of the political news just a couple hours later.
This story does not reflect negatively on the Watchtower, of course.
But there is no doubt that if this particularly venture fails as one of Kushner's bad deals (he's made other bad deals along with good ones) the Watchtower will continue to be mentioned. (A comedian, John Oliver, spoke of these bad deals while making fun of the Watchtower deal just a couple weeks ago. He used Kushner's quotes about what he wanted to do with the Watchtower buildings, but Oliver never mentioned the "Watchtower" itself.) What makes some people worry about Kushner's deal, is that Kushner buys the Watchtower's multi-block complex down by the Brooklyn Bridge for more than a third of a BILLION dollars. Then he gives the Watchtower Society even MORE, another third of a BILLION, for a single parking lot!
 

From http://www.wnyc.org/story/trump-kushner-little-known-business-partner

Donald Trump and Jared Kushner Meet With Business Leaders, January22 2017
(Pablo Martinez Monsivais/Associated Press / Associated Press)     May 25, 2017 · by Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Marritz The Watchtower in Brooklyn Heights is one of the most noticeable edifices in New York. It’s a complex of buildings on a bluff above the East River, with a sign on top that flashes the time and temperature. It used to be the world headquarters of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
But today, workers are preparing to give it a makeover. Like so much else in Brooklyn, the Watchtower has been sold to developers. It changed hands last August, shortly after Donald Trump accepted the Republican nomination for President.
The timing is relevant, because the buyer was Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. At $340 million, Kushner’s purchase of the Watchtower was one of the biggest real estate transactions in Brooklyn history.
Kushner didn’t buy the Watchtower alone. He had help from a company called CIM Group, a private equity firm based in Los Angeles. Over the years, documents show, CIM has done at least seven real estate deals that have benefited Trump and the people around him, including Kushner. Those deals included stabilizing the scandal-plagued Trump SoHo hotel, a key Manhattan holding for Trump and his children Ivanka, Eric, and Donald Jr.
At the same time, records show, CIM Group, with approximately $19.7 billion under management, has pursued an array of lucrative government contracts, pension investments, lobbying interests, and a global infrastructure fund, all of whose fortunes could benefit from a Trump presidency.
While both Kushner and Trump have distanced themselves from their businesses, neither man has divested. Ethics experts including Kathleen Clark of the Washington University School of Law say that because of the two men’s ongoing business interests, the web of connections with CIM is troubling, even if no laws are broken.
“Trump gives new meaning to the idea what’s good for Donald Trump is apparently good for America,” Clark said. “He doesn’t actually seem to have a conception of the public interest outside of himself or his company or his family. That’s astounding.”
The White House declined to comment for this story, but in the past has defended Trump and Kushner’s business ties, saying they’ve been vetted and are in compliance with laws and regulations. CIM declined to comment on potential conflicts.
What is CIM?
CIM Group is certainly known at the top echelons of New York real estate. But the company itself — its character, its founders — seem to leave few traces beyond the properties in which it invests.
“CIM stands out as being very secretive,” said Konrad Putzier, a reporter for the Real Deal magazine and website who has covered the company for several years. “The fact that we don’t even know what CIM stands for says it all.”
A spokesman said in an email "CIM stands for CIM…that is all."
CIM was founded in Los Angeles in 1994 by Shaul Kuba and Avi Shemesh, two Israelis, and Richard Ressler, a former New Yorker with private equity in his family — his brother Tony Ressler co-founded industry giant Apollo Global Management with his brother-in-law, Leon Black.
CIM’s strategy is to get good returns for investors by investing in undervalued urban real estate. The firm quickly became known in California for courting influential politicians and donating tens of thousands of dollars to a series of statewide political action committees.
In 2004, the firm acquired a package of properties that included the Kodak Theatre (now the Dolby Theatre) in Hollywood, where the Academy Awards are held. They purchased the real estate at a deep discount, after the previous owner ran into financial difficulties.
A few years later, CIM persuaded the city of Los Angeles to arrange a $30 million HUD loan to reconfigure the theater to stage shows from Cirque du Soleil. The arrangement was supposed to last a decade and generate hundreds of millions of dollars in new economic activity. Cirque’s show, however, fizzled after little more than a year.
CIM has plenty of friends in Los Angeles, but it also has plenty of critics. Dennis Zine, a retired police officer and former city councilman, helped the company win the right to develop the derelict Reseda Cinema, which appeared in the opening sequence of Boogie Nights. Zine said CIM promised big things, but then neglected the project, embarrassing him in the process.
“They burned their bridge with me,” Zine said.
CIM Moves into New York
Throughout the early 2000’s, CIM kept rolling up cash, in part by drawing investments from public pension funds like those in New York State  and California. In 2010, when CIM made its first foray into New York, the two states had more than a billion dollars with CIM. Neither pension fund would discuss the reasons for their investments.
It was a great time for investors with an appetite for risk and the potential big payouts. The financial crisis had wiped out big banks like Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers. Those that were still around were barely lending, and many New York developers were struggling to pay their bills.
One of those was Harry Macklowe, who had acquired the site of the old Drake Hotel in Midtown Manhattan but lacked the money to build. Court records show Macklowe had tried to work out a deal to finance the project with Paul Manafort, who would later become Trump’s campaign manager, and a Ukrainian oligarch named Dmitry Firtash who had friendly relations with the Russian leader Vladimir Putin. But those negotiations went nowhere.
Then, in January 2010, CIM partnered with Macklowe to erect what is now known as 432 Park Avenue, the tallest residential tower in the Western Hemisphere.  One unit later sold for $95 million.
Later that year, CIM saw another opportunity: the Trump SoHo.
Though the condo-hotel project had been announced on “The Apprentice” finale in 2006, it was troubled from the start. Neighbors were immediately alarmed and upset with the idea of an outsized tower in the low-rise, chic district.
Andrew Berman, executive director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, recalled that the project was plagued with problems. He said there were “deadly construction accidents, bodies being exhumed on the site from a 19th century abolitionist church, falling objects from the building.”
Just after a gala ribbon-cutting for the Trump SoHo in the fall of 2007, the New York Times reported that one of principals in the building partnership, Felix Sater, had been convicted of assault for cutting a man with a broken margarita glass in a bar fight. He’d pled guilty to a stock fraud scheme. Another principal, Kazakh-born Tevfik Arif,was arrested on child-prostitution charges in Turkey. He was later acquitted.
It was, as Berman described it, “just an endless array of scandals and connections between the financiers and Russian and Central Asian mobs.”
Condo buyers sued Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump, Eric Trump, and Donald Trump Jr., saying they lied about how many units had been sold. The Manhattan District Attorney began investigating whether there had been criminal fraud. The lawsuit was eventually settled, with the plaintiffs required to sign non-disclosure agreements. With few witnesses, the D.A. dropped its probe.
By 2010, the partners behind Trump SoHo, were falling behind on their construction loans, and the lenders were threatening foreclosure.
That’s when CIM stepped in with a reported $85 million lifeline.
Important Partners
The same month CIM saved Trump SoHo, December 2010, CIM bailed out the project’s  co-developer, Tamir Sapir, on two other properties he owned: 11 Madison Avenue and the William Beaver House in Lower Manhattan. In all, CIM spent more than a half-billion dollars and gained a stake in some prime New York City properties.
“There was a short window of opportunity that they just seized,” said the Real Deal’s Putzier.
CIM also soon embarked on its first venture with Kushner, an office building at 200 Lafayette Street. The New York Post reported that when they sold the building in 2013 — after $30 million in renovations — the new buyer paid three times as much as Kushner and CIM had initially invested. CIM and Kushner also appeared to turn a quick profit on another jointly-purchased office building, 2 Rector Street.
“The connection with Kushner, it’s very fitting,” Putzier said. He noted that the Kushner Companies own 20,000 apartments and 13 million square feet of office and industrial space, “but...they’re a family company, so when they do a lot of deals they usually need a partner with a lot of equity to help them, and that has often been CIM Group.”
Kushner Companies agrees. In a statement, President Laurent Morali — who replaced Jared Kushner as the firm’s top executive after Kushner went to work in the White House — said “CIM is a strong longstanding partner with a developer’s DNA. They can work through complicated situations, are thorough and strategic, yet also make quick decisions.”  The feeling is mutual: CIM said in a statement that it has “strong, collaborative relationship with the team at Kushner, which has proven to be a valuable local partner.”
CIM also said it “has only one business relationship with a Trump-related company” — the Trump SoHo. The Trump Organization declined to comment for this story; it manages the property under the terms of a licensing agreement.
"The headline attraction of being somehow even tacitly aligned with the President of the United States could provide an incredible fundraising opportunity if they play it right, if they spin it the right way," said Serge Reda an adjunct professor at Fordham Business School. While the specifics of CIM's pitch to investors are unknown, Reda said it would be expected that a private equity firm would discuss its record.
When CIM started making deals with the Trumps and the Kushners, its executives had no idea their business partners would one day occupy the Oval Office. But now they do, and ethics experts say that puts CIM’s connections to the First Family and its significant government business dealings in a new light.
The full extent of CIM’s government ties is not known; much of its business is private, though some investments are publicly traded. In public disclosures, CIM said it received annualized rent of $37.7 million from the General Services Administration and other federal agencies. The company said that losing business from a downsized government "could have a material adverse effect."
CIM also depends on the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program, which provides a path for foreign investors in American real estate to obtain U.S. green cards. According to the non-partisan research group Opensecrets.org, CIM spent $430,000 on federal lobbying in 2015, putting it among the top ten real estate firms lobbying on that issue. CIM listed preserving the EB-5 program as a major lobbying priority.
This is the same program that Jared Kushner’s sister Nicole Meyer, one of his siblings who now runs the family business, was recently promoting in China.
There’s one more program CIM might benefit from, which could dwarf its profits from EB-5, rents or pensions. According to SEC disclosures, CIM has an infrastructure investment fund which it acknowledges is sensitive to “regulation” and “political events.”  If Trump gets an infrastructure bill passed, funds like this could earn many millions from projects like roads and tunnels.
Kushner is at the center of the administration’s building plans. In March, the White House announced that he would head an “Office of American Innovation” whose mandates include “creating transformational infrastructure projects.”
"Whether the parties are doing something untoward or not, the situation creates doubt, and it will follow the President throughout his term as long as he owns his business," said Jordan Libowitz, a spokesperson for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington or CREW. "It’s a question we shouldn’t be having to ask.” His group is suing the president for violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
Last December, as the president-elect was preparing to move to the White House, the firm did one more deal with Trump-world: CIM helped Kushner Companies buy 85 Jay Street, a parking lot in Brooklyn, for an eye-popping $345 million.  
Watch that space.
http://www.wnyc.org/story/trump-kushner-little-known-business-partner

Tempting though it may be to say such things, in the light of what has happened, Russia would regard this statement itself as being 'political.' Seen through their eyes (which we should always try to do with anyone....okay, almost anyone) their intransigence is not totally baseless. 
Emily Baran's book details how all the typical religious reasons accounted for atheistic Soviet Russia persecuting Jehovah's Witnesses. But there were additional ones. The Communists regarded us also as a political movement disguised as a religion. If that seems paranoid, consider that such views were held during the cold war, the most paranoid of times, when anything from the West (like Brooklyn) was held in deep suspicion by the East, and vice versa. 
Early JW works occasionally picked up on Western terminology, such as 'iron curtain,' which the Soviets themselves would never use. Too, the Soviets got stuck being 'the king of the north,' who puts trust in 'the god of fortresses.' The book of the 1930's, 'Government,' lambasted Soviet communism as 'doomed to fail.' Of course, it said the same about democracy, for its point was the inferiority of all human government, not one in particular, but atheistic Russia could hardly be expected to pick up on the nuances, and they didn't.
These days the antagonism against us is mostly stirred up by the Church, as it always is. But the latent distrust of Witnesses from the political days has never vanished. Indeed, even during the 25 years of Jehovah's Witnesses operating as a 'legal' religion there, the government has never acknowledged the mass deportations of our brothers to Siberia in the 40's and 50's.
So while there are some here who 'spill' more than I would, even assuming I had stuff to spill, they are not the ones who will get us into hot water with Russia.

.... for pedophilia, substitute the phrase "FIRST DEGREE MURDER",  and see if your argument still makes sense.
If it does, you are OK.
If it does NOT .. there are flaws in the moral high ground attempted ... by requiring a HIGHER moral high ground of others.
Go ahead, be a sport.... try it out!
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Who doesn't?
Besides, you know full well that beheading is no more than an auxiliary point, nowhere presented as the main reason. These days (thankfully) it recedes even more as a factor when the subject is discussed.
(just in case you are on to something, though, I haven't taken a nap since I read your words)

You can always start another thread if one gets enormous.
I doubt you caused any real angst for anyone. Anyone who shares an internet forum or even responds to a youtube video will be well prepared for just about anything. I had hoped you would share what caused you to make such a big decision about religion recently.
I've seen several who decide to leave the Witnesses and not to come back. They take various paths, often immersing themselves in a lot of study and research to be sure they made the right decision. Sometimes, depending on their motives, they are able to offer something valuable in a kind of "exit interview." I think people would be surprised at all the things that were changed for the better, specifically because an "infamous GB apostate" once decided to write a book about his experiences.
So if you have any constructive criticism, I think it would be welcomed. From what I could gather from these last several posts, it was a lot of different things that piled up at once and crowded out the ability to see light at the end of the tunnel, as it were.
The reason I put it this way to you is not because I think my way of looking at doctrines is so much better, but because I think you showed exactly the right motive when your frustration with doctrinal discussion led you to see Christianity more in terms of 'what sort of persons we ought to be.'
As you might have gathered from other posts, I believe we have the Trinity right, hell/soul/torment right, new heavens and new paradise earth right, neutrality/war right, preaching activity, etc., etc., etc. And I've seen many dozens of positive adjustments in my lifetime. But I also think we have several things wrong, and probably need more adjustments even on the things we have right.
I could list all the things I think we might have wrong in one single place, and this might seem overwhelming, but I prefer to deal with the evidence for one thing at a time. And this is easier on others, too.
I hope you feel welcome if you continue to contribute here, or wherever else you decide.

The time period in which I worked for this particular GB member lasted 5 years, although it was rarely full-time. But it was a very topsy-turvy time at Bethel, and even for this GB member himself. One of the persons who worked on the Aid Book appeared somewhat effeminate in some of his mannerisms and this was sometimes used as a threat against him, not because he was homosexual --I'm sure he was not-- but because the Aid Book itself had stirred up some issues, resulting in elder arrangements, and therefore would cause a re-defined GB arrangement, and the questioning of most of our interpretations of chronology, prophecy, and so-called prophetic dramas, among many other things.
Since I considered both of these men to be nearly best friends at the time, the subject of "questionable sexuality" came up. He didn't want me associating too closely with the Aid Book researcher, who was also very good friends with Ray Franz, having both worked on the Aid Book together.
I say this because, it wasn't a matter of completely forgetting about Proverbs 11:13, because it wasn't like anyone actually revealed a confidential secret. I lived next door to Greenlees and was one of many who understood why there were rumors of his lapses. Chitty was already known from a long history of his friendship with Percy Chapman, who had been the Branch Servant for many years in Canada, and who was more openly homosexual. Rutherford didn't have a problem with him, but Knorr did. There were hushed rumors about Chitty and a "lover" that had therefore made the gossip rounds for many years. But I would agree with your sentiment about this not being a cause for accusation in Chitty's case. It was my guess, and this particular GB brother's claim, that nothing should be done unless someone acts on his proclivities, or unless the rumors themselves become damaging. He put both Chitty and the Aid Book researcher/writer in the same category (although I would disagree that they belonged in the same category). And, finally, it was only the rumors that finally got Chitty removed from Bethel and removed from the GB, according to this same GB source. Also, in the case of Fred Franz being held in high "a-steam," I went there myself once, against the advice of my roommate who said he had gone twice but it was very, very weird. I went once and I agreed with my roommate. I also agree with you, however, that times have changed. In my high school, we all took our showers together after gym, and in the Bethel factories, they did the same thing. This had a completely different "vibe" to it, however.
By the way, I also put child abuse and homosexuality in completely different categories, although I realize that there is a small area of potential overlap, just as there often is with heterosexuality.
My own reason for naming persons in such cases I can detail later. I will only name dead people, and only name names when other persons are already aware of it and have also already revealed these same things. The main point, as you can tell, is that even a little exposure can keep us from becoming too self-righteous as an organization, or keep us from thinking that hiding something for a while will keep things hidden forever. I've seen plenty of evidence that exposure actually helps in the long run, while trying to keep all dirty laundry under wraps just makes it worse for all of us, and for potential converts, too.  

I suspect that it really is much worse in other religions. I have already seen people who take the data that comes out of the Australian studies to try to show that it must be about 10 to 50 times worse, as a ratio, among Jehovah's Witnesses as it is among Catholics. I think this interpretation of the numbers is ludicrous. I found it to be a useful point when you pointed out that the numbers among JWs may refer to both "higher ups" AND the "rank and file," while the numbers from the Catholic Church refer mostly to "higher ups."
I was trying to find a way of saying that it was not all four "higher ups" at the London Branch who had been accused. You might have already been aware of the news when three of the persons with the highest responsibilities at the Branch were dismissed at the same time, and I did not want to cast aspersions against all of them. But you have put me in the awkward position of thinking I should defend the truthfulness of what I said. In Australia not only does the list include circuit overseers, and a former district overseer, but the accused included a person who had been a former Australian Branch overseer himself. One of the very cases that we listened to testimony about in the ARC was a case where the accused was one of these at the top of the Australian Branch organization.
So I mention the parallels as a way of showing the seriousness, even though all of us have the desire to protect the reputation of the Organization. I think it's just as dangerous to minimize the cases as it is to exaggerate them.
With respect to the Interview you mentioned, it's hard to imagine this in any institution, but there really are parallels even if we are not trying to equate our problems with Catholic problems. Although I am not speaking of child abuse, exactly, there have been cases of collusion among some accused of wife-swapping, two or more elders who all committed fornication with the same young sister, and in at least one of these cases, more than one of the accused Witnesses ended up being friends with each other, and supposedly had used this friendship to cover for each other. Something related to this has been claimed for a couple of Australian congregations and three California congregations.
I can't claim direct knowledge of those things that I just mentioned in the last paragraph, but I can claim almost direct knowledge, or at least knowledge that came to me from a member of the GB, whom I worked for. At the time there were about 16 active members of the Governing Body, and one had been accused of homosexual tendencies (Chitty), while two others had been accused of multiple child abuse instances (Greenlees and Jaracz). Another was a 80+-year GB member (Fred Franz) who had made it a longstanding practice to meet with more than a dozen naked and semi-naked 19-year olds in the sauna (steam room), who came there to listen to his Bible discussions for up to two hours every Wednesday night. Two of those GB members were dismissed from Bethel, the other two remained at Bethel until they died. I mention all of these because it reflects on 25% of the highest organizational leadership at the time. We know that it's often those with a measure of authority who use their position to manipulate the situation allowing for the crimes and the cover-up of their crimes.
So, unfortunately, I cannot accept some of the excuses about needing to slap down those who see problematic parallels. Finding the parallels with other institutions might even be a way to find more solutions that have seemed to work in some of these other institutions. I don't think it matters who is better or worse, it matters that we find more ways to help the situation, help the victims, and keep the organization clean. Making the organization appear cleaner is not the same as truly working to make it clean. I'm a firm believer in facing the issue head on as the fastest way to clean it up.

This was a separate incident to the 12 hours earlier bomb attack, about 1/2 mile away.  A number of Carts are always at the Arndale Centre (very busy shopping area) for daytime witnessing.
I will be at the Arena next month hopefully.

In the aftermath of Manchester, if words can be called refreshing, surely "evil losers" fits the bill. As Trump says, you don't call them monsters; they will like that designation. These are not people who look at themselves in the mirror and gasp: "what have I become?"
Nor do you call them 'cowards.' To give your life in support of a cause, any cause, is the very opposite of cowardly.
Nor do you carry on about ‘senseless violence.’ If your goal is to kill people, it makes perfect sense.
Nor do you carry on ineffectually about how "we will not change our way of life because that is what they terrorists want." I suspect they do not want that at all; what they want is for people to continually prance around openly like bowling pins, easy to knock down. Surely if you say such inane things about not changing your way of life, you should acknowledge that it is at the cost of funding 100 cops in riot gear, whereas one with a baton used to suffice.
In their quest to undermine the President, I half expect journalists to turn critical of his label, describing it as 'judgmental', 'knee-jerk,' or juvenile. There's only so much you can do with rhetoric. But I'll take it over what we've had to hear in the past any day.
I like "evil losers" also because it doesn't pretend to have a handle on the problem, as some other responses have. Banal remarks about not succeeding in the fight to change a way of life implies that terrorists are merely a nuisance we all must bear, like mosquitoes.
Of course, what can never be addressed is how easy it is today to transform people into evil losers. And how, if you succeed in taking one out, there are ten in the wings waiting to take his place. Or, when mighty nations are bombing the snot out of weaker ones, how easy it is to turn on the citizens of that nation, thinking them not so innocent after all, since they vote into office the ones who order the bombing.