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JW Insider

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    JW Insider reacted to bruceq in Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to ‘total control’   
    Well said. The same happened in the Fist Century when Jesus said to eat his blood and flesh which his hearers knew was wrong yet many left following him anyway without a hint of respect for the signs that indicated he was the true one that was to come. If they just waited they would have been blessed. Many other examples like Korah and so on...You would think some would learn such principles if they only read the Bible instead of being complainers. Jehovah does not like ANY complainers or murmurers for obvious reasons such as in Numbers chp. 16 where Korah's arguments sound EXACTLY like JTR's with the tryanny "Now do you also want to make yourself an absolute ruler over us? as well as "Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah? Num 16. Jehovah says showing such disrespect to his human reps was showing disrespect to Him. And we know what happened.
       Of course as the end nears the world is becoming more secular and athiest and agnostics are the fastest growing religion for that reason. However here is an interesting article:
    https://priceonomics.com/jehovahs-witnesses-a-case-study-in-viral-marketing/
    Note this quote below :" But Jehovah’s Witnesses are actually net-positive. Despite their heavy leakage, Jehovah’s Witnesses are the largest Christian group gaining American membership. They’re winners!"
     
    Jehovah's Witnesses: A Case Study in Viral Marketing
    · 46,623 views · More stats
       Share Do you still hold your parents’ faith? If they raised you a Jehovah’s Witness, it’s likely your answer is, “No.” There’s over a 6 in 10 chance, in fact.
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses have their origins in a 1870’s religious movement, called the “Bible Student Movement”. Charles Taze Russell’s independent bible study lead him and his cohort to novel interpretations of the bible, which they codified and disseminated through publications like Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ Magazine. The church’s Governing Body -- which is responsible for refining the church’s interpretation of the bible -- is a group of seven men, and is based in Brooklyn. They still oversee the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society corporation, which was formed in 1884 to distribute the movement’s tracts and bibles.
    Like many organized religions Jehovah’s Witnesses have their fair share of rituals, prophesy, and dogma. They refuse blood transfusions, believe that Armageddon will happen within in our lifetimes, and they abstain from holidays with “pagan origins” -- including Easter, Christmas, and birthdays.
    But what tends to set Jehovah’s Witnesses apart in American society is their commitment to evangelism. All baptized members of the church are considered ‘ordained ministers’ and termed “publishers.” This authority comes with a mandate: publishers are required to go out and preach to the best of their ability. Hence the armies friendly young Jehovah’s Witnesses in their suits, spending their Saturday going door to door with bibles and armfuls of colorfully-illustrated Watch Tower pamphlets.

    On the point of house-to-house ministry, the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization quotes the bible: “Jesus told his followers to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” (Matthew 28:19, 20)” But unlike many of the more common Christian denominations, Jehovah’s Witnesses are required to report back on their evangelical efforts to a central organization.
    If a baptized Jehovah’s Witness fails to submit reports monthly, they’re termed “irregular” and investigated by the community elders. If he or she fails to submit a report for six consecutive months, the publisher is termed “inactive”. Extreme breaches of conduct can result in disfellowshipping -- i.e. banning from the community. The church tracks “active” publishers as its main membership statistic.

    When you consider the fact that 39% of self-identifying Catholics attend religious services in the range of “A few times a year” and “Never” -- or the 46% of Mainline Protestants, 45% of Jews, 68% of Buddhists -- Jehovah’s Witnesses have a comparatively steep requirement for membership. The cultures of these faiths allow for individuals to affiliate informally, with minimal external, measurable engagement. Jehovah’s Witnesses, on the other hand, keep track of who is in and who is out and keep track of their participation. They don’t practice infant baptism for this same reason: “Instead of specifying an age to get baptized, God’s Word describes the spiritual condition of those qualified to take that step [...] baptism is for those who are already disciples of Christ.” To be in, you really have to be in.
    It’s to be expected that this opt-in system and paperwork-heavy user experience would cause a terrible churn rate. This is not a seamless religion by any stretch.
    A Highly Competitive Marketplace

    When Pew Research Center surveyed Americans on their religious affiliations, they reported that the United States has a “very competitive marketplace”: “every major religious group is simultaneously gaining and losing adherents.”
    A lot of this dynamism is lost in top-line statistics. For example, about a third of all Americans raised Catholic no longer identify as Catholic, but the percentage of the population made up of Catholics has remained relatively stable for the past several decades because these multitudes have been offset by new immigrants to the U.S. identifying as Catholic.
    These attrition rates start to look pretty good, however, next to some other numbers. Jehovah’s Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of all the groups -- that’s them all the way on the right. 63% of Americans who were raised Jehovah’s Witness say they aren’t Jehovah’s Witness anymore.
    Still “Winning”
    But as our bar chart shows, the large religious groups that allow for more informal membership are losing members too -- every major religious group is. According to Pew, 44% of all adult Americans have changed their religious affiliation, and the group that has grown the most by a long shot is the sector of Americans who claim no religious affiliation.
    By Pew’s analysis, Protestantism, Catholicism, and Mormonism are all net-negative: there are more people raised in the religious groups who have left, than there are people who have converted into the religious groups. Even Hinduism -- which has the lowest attrition rate -- is just breaking even. But Jehovah’s Witnesses are actually net-positive. Despite their heavy leakage, Jehovah’s Witnesses are the largest Christian group gaining American membership. They’re winners!

    In a shrinking market, it pays to invest in some viral-marketing. Which is where the 1-million-plus Jehovah’s Witness ministers in America come in. They’re all active recruiters. If Jehovah’s Witnesses were a SaaS company, every ‘customer’ would have to spend several hours a week reaching out to prospective customers, or they’d get their subscription cancelled.
    Jehovah’s Witnesses gain about 30,000 members a year through baptism -- some of those are children of Jehovah’s witness families, and others are converts. If they didn’t lose so many members to conversion they’d be growing at an even faster rate.
    We can actually model how much faster, with a simplified formula for viral growth. Viral marketing depends on existing customers recruiting new customers -- like how you can get more free storage capacity on dropbox if you refer your friends. If you know how many users you have (current_pop), on average, how many new customers each existing customer can recruit in a year (baptisms_per_publisher), and if you know what percentage of your customers drop out of the service per year (annual_churn_rate), then you can calculate future populations based on your current population: 
    According to JWFacts.com (whose statistics seem to match up with the annual Watch Tower reports), there were about 982,5233 active publishers in 2002. The conversion rate is tiny, at around 3 baptisms a year for every 100 publishers. But according to this model, the steady stream of converts means Jehovah’s Witnesses can still grow -- even if their recruitment strategies are responsible for some of their attrition.
    The average churn rate over the past decade has sat at around 1.5% of the total population. If they were retaining members at the rate the Catholic church used to -- .4% in the early 1980s -- they’d hit 2 million publishers in the United States by 2032.


    There are a lot of assumptions that go into viral marketing. Companies tend to like these projections because investors tend to like the look of exponential growth, but like many attempts to predict the future they’re imperfect. Some things that could disrupt this model are changes in church policy and prophesy, and major world events. Apparently membership ballooned right before 1975 because church leaders had “built up hope” that the world would end that year. Membership declined in the years following, when it didn’t. The actual Armageddon would also probably halt the church’s viral growth.
    Which brings us to another factoid that might disrupt this model: being a Jehovah’s Witness is not for everyone. This market is not infinite. It has a ceiling, and in fact, given the American trend towards secularism in the past few decades, that ceiling is getting lower. But for the time being, Jehovah’s Witnesses make up about 1% of the U.S. population. This means they have a lot of room left to grow, and -- unlike the other major Christian denominations -- they’re making headway, modest though their growth factor may be.
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in Do Jehovahs Witnesses shun Child Victims of Sexual Abuse   
    Sorry you have feelings of resentment. "Amen" expresses my complete agreement with a view that Anna (not you) has posted. However, feeling resentment is an unpleasant experience for you, and not the intention of my comment. I can appreciate your own experiences as described above make this a sensitive area for you.
    However, I feel there is absolutely no comparison possible between Joseph's experience of imprisonment in Egypt and the unthinkable horror a child must go through when subject to molestation by someone who, in some cases, they may well have looked to for protection and love. That is before we start to consider the inexcusable reproach that is heaped upon Jehovah's name and the reputation of all Jehovah's Witnesses, when someone claiming to be one of us perpetrates such a despicable crime.
    Even a cursory examination of the factors involved in Joseph's case reveal that, despite the indisputable injustice he experienced over the course of many years, he was well aware of Jehovah sustaining him and intervening in his circumstance to enable him to enjoy privileged conditions, albeit a prisoner. Additionally he was also well aware that, overall, Jehovah had a specific purpose in allowing him to serve instrumentally for the salvation of the line of the promised seed. Gen.45:5-7.
    This has no resemblance to the experience of abused children and quite frankly, I resent the association of Jehovah in anything which would contribute to some imagined purpose in Him allowing such depraved behaviour. This is the same Jehovah who referred to child abuse in His condemnation of the Israelites when speaking through Jeremiah the prophet:
    "Furthermore, they built the high places of Baʹal in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through the fire to Moʹlech, something that I had not commanded them and that had never come into my heart to do such a detestable thing" Jer.32:35.
    I know that an awareness of the bigger picture regarding the universal issues of Jehovah's sovereignty and the slur on the integrity of Jehovah's servants are factors in why Jehovah has allowed wickedness for a time. But we must remember that, even in the case of Job, limits were set by Jehovah as to how far Satan could go in his vain attempts to prove his lying claims (Job 1:12). Satan has far exceeded those limits in connection with imperfect humans. Child abuse is one example of this.
     
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in Jehovah's Witnesses member receives 5-year prison term in Kazakhstan for inciting religious hatred   
    Who is bringing the case against this extremist?
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    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to ‘total control’   
    As I've also stated before, there is no "total" control. There is a measure of control, and many feel it strongly, and many don't feel it at all. Some who feel it strongly, appreciate it. Some don't. Some who don't feel controlled in the least, may actually be the most "controlled." I think, too, whether we are uncomfortable with it, is probably a matter of who we feel to be in control. If we have trust that Jehovah is in overall control, no matter what the current situation in our congregation is, then we are likely to feel good about that kind of control. If we give too much credit (aka, blame) to the human leadership, then we are likely to feel less appreciative of certain kinds of control. Where control is discipline, most of us realize that 'whom Jehovah loves he disciplines' and  11  True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but it is painful;* yet afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Hebrews 12:11)
    Some measure of control can therefore be a good thing. This assumes that we have humbly accepted human leadership, and are willing to be obedient to those who take the lead. It's not a good example, but I know a regular pioneer who believes in evolution. She has admitted it to my daughter and another JW friend, who are her best friends. (It was also obvious from schoolwork they did in high school together.) ...[edited to remove second example]...
    I also think that the organization has changed significantly (for the better) since the time, about 35 years ago, when persons on the Governing Body even recommended that beliefs we keep to ourselves should also be grounds for disfellowshipping. One member of the Governing Body recommended that Bethelites stop doing "deep Bible study," and a cleaned-up version of his words make it into the Watchtower around the same time. At a meeting of Bethel elders, the same GB member even suggested that everyone take a "loyalty oath."
    This was a time when some people might remember "total control" but it doesn't exist anymore. This doesn't mean there won't be a controlling elder here and there who always pushes a judicial committee to agree with him, and who always gets his way. There are many cases of injustice, and some never get appealed because they basically just create an atmosphere of toxicity that an offended person might not want to go back to. I'm pretty sure we all know of Witnesses who have moved from one congregation to another due to feeling an atmosphere of toxicity or they say "there was no love" in their previous congregation. I think it usually refers to a bad experience that colors their entire view of a congregation, even if others in the same congregation feel plenty of love. For some, an experience can clearly color their entire view of the entire organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. 
    But I think that plenty of the complaints are actually carry-overs from ex-JWs who lived through the experience of a few decades ago, or just happened to be treated in this way more recently. I think that they hold onto their anger against the Witnesses due to the shunning practice, which they are sure they do not deserve. The basic issue is the loss of the love of family and relatives when a person feels that they can't associate any more. This is a much different experience than those who are disfellowshipped for a breach of conduct and know that it is only to help them get back into the congregation with a clean slate. 
  8. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to ‘total control’   
    "obeservations" -- reservations at a restaurant for gluttons?
  9. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from bruceq in TRUMP WARNS RUSSIA OVER JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES This is fake news BEWARE   
    I don't think anyone can say who it came from originally. The seed of these ideas often comes from persons looking at a respected news source. They then think about what might attract attention. I listened to an actual interview on NPR with the person who created the news story that the Pope endorsed Trump. He at first denied that it was him, but then realized that he had truly been caught, and decided that it would be better to explain what he and his "company" does. It was simply for the purpose of making money. The more interesting the hook, the more people will share it, and more eyeballs mean more money. It turns out he has created hundreds of such stories. Not all of them pan out, and sometimes he uses test stories, and tries some out on platforms where no money is to be made, just as a test of how much interest they might pull in. 
    This story strikes me as one of those like the Pope and Trump. It didn't have quite the potential for pulling interest from at least half the United States, but it had a chance to pull in quite a few. They are almost always built on partially true stories, ones in which someone could easily say, "Oh yeah, I heard something about that a week or so ago. And isn't it interesting that Trump did say that he wouldn't take in Muslims, but that he would be quick to accept Christian refugees. That fits. People should know this. I have to share it."
    After I retired, about 4 years ago, I was talked into joining the new product marketing team for a major ISP, and I took it because I didn't have to go into the office more than once a month (and the office was out of state). But they paid for some seminars, and one of them was about how the most successful people sell product on the Internet. A set of "survivalist" sites were compared, and a very rich marketer gave a speech about how to sell to this group. He said, the first thing you have to remember is the motivation. Survivalists for example, are easy to scare. Just say, BOO! and they start running. But "BOO!" to them is a threat about the impending "end of the system." By this he meant the threat of a New World Order, Government Overreach, diminishing of "white rights" etc. He said that the biggest way to tap into all that right now (2013/2014) is to claim that "Obama is going to take away your guns." He showed the visiting stats and the sales stats for all the different marketing methods and slogans and key words, and he showed how much more successful this particular phrase worked with survivalists. It was really amazing. And he showed how fake news on the sites and Facebook pages that these persons are known to visit would enhance it. Fake news, he said, is always built on partially, or even almost totally true news, but with just enough "fear" factor in the spin to catch the interest, or to make your products more meaningful in the world you created with fake news. There did not have to be a direct link between the fake news and the product, but there was an indirect one. (Ironically, the man says that he and most of the people on his team were Obama supporters, despite the pro-NRA anti-Obama rhetoric in their fake news and advertisements.
    But there is also the use of niche audiences that a lot of fake news is intended to capture attention from. There have been persons who have worked for organizations that spoke out against cults in the past (Scientology, Moonies, etc) who realized that they could change their tune and find a new audience of millions if they spoke out in support of these same groups. Speaking out in defense of cults turned them into legal consultants and authors with a new guaranteed group of buyers. This is not so different from those consultants who spoke out in favor of cigarettes, arctic drilling, fracking, etc. There was even a man who made himself famous for a while with videos about how paper garbage didn't break down in landfills, but showed how plastic containers crushed down to take up a lot less space. It's not directly related but I heard that even the author Christine King, changed a version of her book to remove the line referring to Rutherford early support of Hitler. This was after working with the Watch Tower Society during a time of peak publicity efforts by the Organization. I can only suppose this was because she now had a new audience of potential buyers. 
    So sometimes, it's a matter of "follow the money." But sometimes it could just as easily be a JW who thinks it would bring attention to Witnesses by making up a story, or turning a story about someone else into a story about Witnesses. This happened in a recent circuit overseer's talk mentioned on this forum (about a spider and a cave). It probably happened when someone put a jw.org logo on J ackie C han, etc, etc. 
     
     
     
     
     
    For what it's worth, I think you did absolutely the right thing. If you hadn't brought up the story, someone else would have. And it was great that it ended up getting exposed for what it was. 
  10. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Alzasior Lutor in RUSSIA’S BAN: TRUMP, PENCE ATTEND MEETING OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESS IN US   
    President Donald Trump Attends Inauguration National Prayer Service ...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQGUYlB1aUs   Traduire cette page 168 × 94 - 21 janv. 2017 - January 21, 2017 C-SPAN News http://MOXNews.com President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence and their families attended the ...   FNN: President Donald Trump Attends National Prayer Service at ...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCnYchWoIEY   Traduire cette page 1280 × 720 - 21 janv. 2017 - President Donald Trump opened his first full day as president Saturday at a national prayer service, the final piece of transition business for the ...   President Donald Trump attends National Prayer Service. Jan 21 ...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_o4vxBqHKo   Traduire cette page 168 × 94 - 21 janv. 2017 - President Donald Trump. National Prayer Service. Jan 21. 2017. Washington National Cathedral. President Donald Trump speech. President ...   January 21, 2009: National Prayer Service in Celebration of the Fifty ...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6wNARsXkj8   Traduire cette page 168 × 94 - 13 mars 2016 - SERVICE LEAFLET: http://cathedral.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/20090121InauguralPrayerServiceBarackObama.pdf National Prayer ...   LIVE Stream: President Trump Attends National Prayer Service - ALiPAC
      -------------------------------------------
    It is not a Kingdom Hall....
     
  11. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Lussier Denis in RUSSIA’S BAN: TRUMP, PENCE ATTEND MEETING OF JEHOVAH’S WITNESS IN US   
    On:
    https://www.alipac.us/f9/live-stream-president-trump-attends-national-prayer-service-342430/
    Trump Invited Billy Graham's Granddaughter to Pray at National Service 
    January 21, 2017
    Donald Trump continues to signal his support for evangelicals by inviting a record number to participate in the National Prayer Service Saturday morning, including the granddaughter of famed evangelist Billy Graham.

    Held at the National Cathedral, the prayer service is a tradition that dates back to George Washington and calls upon the prayers of faith leaders across this nation.

    Just one day after President Trump's inauguration, members of the faith community sang "Great is Thy Faithfulness" and prayed for peace.

    The interfaith service included representatives from the Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Mormon, Jewish, and Muslim faith, among others, but the majority were evangelicals.

    Southern Baptists Jack Graham, Ronnie Floyd, and David Jeremiah are members of the president’s evangelical advisory board and they were among a total of 26 faith leaders who attended the service.

    "As a Baptist, I'm compelled by my faith to pray for the leaders of our nation and to ask God's blessing on them, for they cannot succeed outside his providence and without his guiding hand," said Jack Graham, pastor of Prestonwood Baptist and former chairman for the National Day of Prayer.

    Alveda King, the niece of Martin Luther King Jr., Cleveland Pastor Darrell Scott, who led the National Diversity Coalition for Trump's campaign, and Bishop Harry Jackson of the High Impact Leadership Coalition also spoke.

    Foregoing a sermon altogether, Trump requested that leaders pray or read from scripture.

    As it was at the inauguration, the name of Jesus was invoked several times during the service as evangelical leaders followed the biblical practice of praying in His name.

    California pastor and evangelist Greg Laurie prayed for the men and women of the military, as well as governors, mayors and all civil servants throughout the nation.

    Graham prayed, “O God and Savior, the One who is the way, the truth and the life, enlighten by your Holy Spirit all teachers and educators.” He closed, “In Jesus dear name, give us grace to do Your will in all that we undertake.”

    Floyd, a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, read Psalm 23.

    "May the power of God's word be our source and be our shield everywhere we walk today," he said. "May the Lord add his blessing to the reading of his Holy Word."

    Dr. David Swanson of First Presbyterian Church in Orlando read The Beatitudes from the Gospel of Matthew and David Jeremiah read Romans 5:1-5.

    Cissie Graham Lynch of Samaritan’s Purse is the daughter of Franklin Graham and granddaughter of America’s best-known and most beloved religious figure, Billy Graham.

    She delivered her prayer with a passion befitting her family, asking God to grant wisdom and peace “through your Son Jesus Christ our Lord, the Prince of Peace, the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords…in Jesus Name we pray, amen.”

    It is no surprise that Trump surrounds himself with Christians. During the length of his campaign, Trump has spoken about his faith in Jesus Christ.

    During his inauguration, Trump placed his hand on two Bibles, one used by President Abraham Lincoln, the other a childhood Bible given to him by his mother.

    During his speech, Trump spoke of unity and referenced Psalms 133:1, which states" how good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity!"

    instead of the customary one or two Trump also opted to have a half-dozen leaders with him during his inauguration ceremony held on the capitol.

    Pastor Paula White and Rev. Samuel Rodriguez were among some of the leaders who prayed during the inauguration. 
    "There's a lot of guidance and even prophetic truth in simply gathering and setting your sights to sacred texts in how we're to live as a society," Mariann Budde, bishop of the Episcopal diocese of Washington, told The Washington Post.

    http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/january/trump-invited-billy-graham-rsquo-s-granddaughter-to-pray-at-national-service
    -----------------
    Not in a Kingdom Hall.  
  12. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Queen Esther in TRUMP WARNS RUSSIA OVER JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES This is fake news BEWARE   
    I don't think anyone can say who it came from originally. The seed of these ideas often comes from persons looking at a respected news source. They then think about what might attract attention. I listened to an actual interview on NPR with the person who created the news story that the Pope endorsed Trump. He at first denied that it was him, but then realized that he had truly been caught, and decided that it would be better to explain what he and his "company" does. It was simply for the purpose of making money. The more interesting the hook, the more people will share it, and more eyeballs mean more money. It turns out he has created hundreds of such stories. Not all of them pan out, and sometimes he uses test stories, and tries some out on platforms where no money is to be made, just as a test of how much interest they might pull in. 
    This story strikes me as one of those like the Pope and Trump. It didn't have quite the potential for pulling interest from at least half the United States, but it had a chance to pull in quite a few. They are almost always built on partially true stories, ones in which someone could easily say, "Oh yeah, I heard something about that a week or so ago. And isn't it interesting that Trump did say that he wouldn't take in Muslims, but that he would be quick to accept Christian refugees. That fits. People should know this. I have to share it."
    After I retired, about 4 years ago, I was talked into joining the new product marketing team for a major ISP, and I took it because I didn't have to go into the office more than once a month (and the office was out of state). But they paid for some seminars, and one of them was about how the most successful people sell product on the Internet. A set of "survivalist" sites were compared, and a very rich marketer gave a speech about how to sell to this group. He said, the first thing you have to remember is the motivation. Survivalists for example, are easy to scare. Just say, BOO! and they start running. But "BOO!" to them is a threat about the impending "end of the system." By this he meant the threat of a New World Order, Government Overreach, diminishing of "white rights" etc. He said that the biggest way to tap into all that right now (2013/2014) is to claim that "Obama is going to take away your guns." He showed the visiting stats and the sales stats for all the different marketing methods and slogans and key words, and he showed how much more successful this particular phrase worked with survivalists. It was really amazing. And he showed how fake news on the sites and Facebook pages that these persons are known to visit would enhance it. Fake news, he said, is always built on partially, or even almost totally true news, but with just enough "fear" factor in the spin to catch the interest, or to make your products more meaningful in the world you created with fake news. There did not have to be a direct link between the fake news and the product, but there was an indirect one. (Ironically, the man says that he and most of the people on his team were Obama supporters, despite the pro-NRA anti-Obama rhetoric in their fake news and advertisements.
    But there is also the use of niche audiences that a lot of fake news is intended to capture attention from. There have been persons who have worked for organizations that spoke out against cults in the past (Scientology, Moonies, etc) who realized that they could change their tune and find a new audience of millions if they spoke out in support of these same groups. Speaking out in defense of cults turned them into legal consultants and authors with a new guaranteed group of buyers. This is not so different from those consultants who spoke out in favor of cigarettes, arctic drilling, fracking, etc. There was even a man who made himself famous for a while with videos about how paper garbage didn't break down in landfills, but showed how plastic containers crushed down to take up a lot less space. It's not directly related but I heard that even the author Christine King, changed a version of her book to remove the line referring to Rutherford early support of Hitler. This was after working with the Watch Tower Society during a time of peak publicity efforts by the Organization. I can only suppose this was because she now had a new audience of potential buyers. 
    So sometimes, it's a matter of "follow the money." But sometimes it could just as easily be a JW who thinks it would bring attention to Witnesses by making up a story, or turning a story about someone else into a story about Witnesses. This happened in a recent circuit overseer's talk mentioned on this forum (about a spider and a cave). It probably happened when someone put a jw.org logo on J ackie C han, etc, etc. 
     
     
     
     
     
    For what it's worth, I think you did absolutely the right thing. If you hadn't brought up the story, someone else would have. And it was great that it ended up getting exposed for what it was. 
  13. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from OtherSheep in Trump consoles Jehovah’s Witnesses on Russia ban as he worships with them   
    Nigeria has a very high ratio of Witnesses in the population. The site currently has only three articles mentioning Jehovah's Witnesses, two of them from 2016, but one of them is list of the most popular religions in Nigeria, and JWs are listed 4th in a listing of 10.
    10 Popular Churches In Nigeria And Their Origin
    The other article is called:
    See What Jehovah Witnesses Go Through When Spreading The Message (photos)
    This is exactly the kind of fake news that could be seized upon by Witnesses from other countries who are not as familiar with Trump's style. I'd say that it was not designed to create confusion and uncertainty, but designed to create excitement and attention, even if short-lived (and short-sighted).
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Evacuated in TRUMP WARNS RUSSIA OVER JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES This is fake news BEWARE   
    I don't think anyone can say who it came from originally. The seed of these ideas often comes from persons looking at a respected news source. They then think about what might attract attention. I listened to an actual interview on NPR with the person who created the news story that the Pope endorsed Trump. He at first denied that it was him, but then realized that he had truly been caught, and decided that it would be better to explain what he and his "company" does. It was simply for the purpose of making money. The more interesting the hook, the more people will share it, and more eyeballs mean more money. It turns out he has created hundreds of such stories. Not all of them pan out, and sometimes he uses test stories, and tries some out on platforms where no money is to be made, just as a test of how much interest they might pull in. 
    This story strikes me as one of those like the Pope and Trump. It didn't have quite the potential for pulling interest from at least half the United States, but it had a chance to pull in quite a few. They are almost always built on partially true stories, ones in which someone could easily say, "Oh yeah, I heard something about that a week or so ago. And isn't it interesting that Trump did say that he wouldn't take in Muslims, but that he would be quick to accept Christian refugees. That fits. People should know this. I have to share it."
    After I retired, about 4 years ago, I was talked into joining the new product marketing team for a major ISP, and I took it because I didn't have to go into the office more than once a month (and the office was out of state). But they paid for some seminars, and one of them was about how the most successful people sell product on the Internet. A set of "survivalist" sites were compared, and a very rich marketer gave a speech about how to sell to this group. He said, the first thing you have to remember is the motivation. Survivalists for example, are easy to scare. Just say, BOO! and they start running. But "BOO!" to them is a threat about the impending "end of the system." By this he meant the threat of a New World Order, Government Overreach, diminishing of "white rights" etc. He said that the biggest way to tap into all that right now (2013/2014) is to claim that "Obama is going to take away your guns." He showed the visiting stats and the sales stats for all the different marketing methods and slogans and key words, and he showed how much more successful this particular phrase worked with survivalists. It was really amazing. And he showed how fake news on the sites and Facebook pages that these persons are known to visit would enhance it. Fake news, he said, is always built on partially, or even almost totally true news, but with just enough "fear" factor in the spin to catch the interest, or to make your products more meaningful in the world you created with fake news. There did not have to be a direct link between the fake news and the product, but there was an indirect one. (Ironically, the man says that he and most of the people on his team were Obama supporters, despite the pro-NRA anti-Obama rhetoric in their fake news and advertisements.
    But there is also the use of niche audiences that a lot of fake news is intended to capture attention from. There have been persons who have worked for organizations that spoke out against cults in the past (Scientology, Moonies, etc) who realized that they could change their tune and find a new audience of millions if they spoke out in support of these same groups. Speaking out in defense of cults turned them into legal consultants and authors with a new guaranteed group of buyers. This is not so different from those consultants who spoke out in favor of cigarettes, arctic drilling, fracking, etc. There was even a man who made himself famous for a while with videos about how paper garbage didn't break down in landfills, but showed how plastic containers crushed down to take up a lot less space. It's not directly related but I heard that even the author Christine King, changed a version of her book to remove the line referring to Rutherford early support of Hitler. This was after working with the Watch Tower Society during a time of peak publicity efforts by the Organization. I can only suppose this was because she now had a new audience of potential buyers. 
    So sometimes, it's a matter of "follow the money." But sometimes it could just as easily be a JW who thinks it would bring attention to Witnesses by making up a story, or turning a story about someone else into a story about Witnesses. This happened in a recent circuit overseer's talk mentioned on this forum (about a spider and a cave). It probably happened when someone put a jw.org logo on J ackie C han, etc, etc. 
     
     
     
     
     
    For what it's worth, I think you did absolutely the right thing. If you hadn't brought up the story, someone else would have. And it was great that it ended up getting exposed for what it was. 
  15. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from OtherSheep in BREAKING NEWS - The Bethel Central will be closed and the 395 local religious organizations will be dissolved ;-(   
    185,000 in both cases.
    -----
    The thought occurred to me that it might have been tempting for some in the Org to pray that the letter-writing campaign would backfire. Having foreigners attempt to influence judges and courts will inevitably lead to a showdown of strength and there are several countries where the outcome of such a showdown could be predictable. I believe, for example, that some persons in the Org knew in advance the most likely outcome of an old letter-writing campaign to the president of Malawi. In some cases, instead of trying to create an 'international incident' the Org chose to compromise doctrine, such as in Bulgaria and Mexico. Sometimes I do believe it's a matter choosing the battles.
    But in any case, our prayers should always be for the support and encouragement of our brothers in Russia. We can pray for the ban to be lifted and pray for their freedom of movement and freedom of speech. But we should also remember, as Jesus did, that we pray not for our will, but Jehovah's will to be done. (Luke 22:42) 
  16. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Queen Esther in BREAKING NEWS - The Bethel Central will be closed and the 395 local religious organizations will be dissolved ;-(   
    A  little  bit  I  can  understand  you,  yes    but  -  its  our  human - thinking !!   In  the  past  I  was  similar  like  you  -  but  now  I   wait,  pray  and  trust  of  Jehovah....   HIS  ways  sooooo  different,  we  can't  feeling,  thinking  like  our  GOD,  NOOO !!
    Our  World - events  are  so  difficult  now,  we  have  to  wait...  otherwise  Fake - News  again  -  thats  not  what  I  want.  You  like  to  have  more...  but  our  Brothers  in  the  far  past  also  have  to  wait.  We  get  alot  more  informations  in  our  modern  time.  But  not  underrate  Satan,  he  of  sure  will  give  us  misinformation,  similar  the  stupid  Fake-News. I  keep  away  of  that  all  -   Our  GB  will  give  the  best  informations  to  the  right  time.
    And  thats   N O T   Fake - News.....    Patience  is  a  fruit  of  the  spirit  you  know....  WE  HAVE  TO  WORK  AT  THAT  -  The  Bible  said  it  -   Lets  more  obey  my  Brother,  the  Bible  is  telling  us  the  TRUTH  ;-)
    Agape  from  Germany ❤        Good  night  for  today,  its  night time  here,  sorry....
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to bruceq in HOW DID THIS ALL BEGIN : 1997 ANTI-CULT GROUP IN RUSSIA TARGETS: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES   
    I have now traced all of this to 1992 when Kirill met with the Pope to eliminate Jehovah's Witnesses with Watchtower and another newspaper. as source:
    The Archbishop Cannot Cope!
       LAST year, a consistory (solemn council of cardinals) was organized to discuss certain matters that are of great concern to the Catholic Church. One of these, according to the newspaper Il Sabato, is “the aggressiveness of the sects.” However, the newspaper said: “It should be no problem for the cardinals to reach agreement on this point. All are in accord that there is a need for a more in-depth study of the phenomenon of new religious movements and also a need to prevent, as far as possible, their expansion.”
    Evidently, though, “the aggressiveness of the sects” is not just a problem in Italy. Il Sabato reports: “While visiting the Vatican recently, Archbishop Kirill of Smolensk [one of Russia’s oldest cities] . . . asked the pope for ecumenical aid in coping with the overwhelming growth of Jehovah’s Witnesses and similar groups in the Soviet Union.”

       In the first century, leaders of established religion had similar complaints when Christianity was spread aggressively by its adherents. On one occasion indignant Jews complained to the city rulers: “These men that have overturned the inhabited earth are present here also”! (Acts 17:6) Back then, religious leaders tried hard to stop the spread of Christianity, but they failed. Today also, any effort to stop the spread of true Christian doctrine is doomed to failure. God himself promises: “Any weapon whatever that will be formed against you will have no success, and any tongue at all that will rise up against you in the judgment you will condemn. This is the hereditary possession of the servants of Jehovah, and their righteousness is from me.”—Isaiah 54:17. SOURCE : 8/15/1992 WATCHTOWER
    SEE UPDATED BEGINNING TO THIS THREAD
  18. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Wayne Peacock in Russian JW's Begin to Remove Kingdom Halls Signs   
    (Acts 5:33-40)  34 But a certain man rose in the Sanʹhe·drin, a Pharisee named Ga·maʹli·el, a Law teacher esteemed by all the people, and gave the command to put the men outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them: “Men of Israel, pay attention to yourselves as to what YOU intend to do respecting these men. 36 For instance, before these days Theuʹdas rose, saying he himself was somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined his party. But he was done away with, and all those who were obeying him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37 After him Judas the Gal·i·leʹan rose in the days of the registration, and he drew off people after him. And yet that man perished, and all those who were obeying him were scattered abroad. 38 And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone; (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them;) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters actually against God.” 
    Therefore, no problem. Leave it to Jehovah. The Russian authorities don't know who they are dealing with.
     
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in RUSSIA: Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia   
    While the Watch Tower Society was still publishing the "Divine Plan of the Ages" a few brothers and sisters started using the word "purpose." But it fell out of favor again, possibly because it was Maria Russell (who evidently co-wrote "Divine Plan of the Ages") who preferred the term God's "Eternal Purpose." In fact, after divorcing Charles Taze Russell, she wrote an entire book called "The Eternal Purpose."
    More recently our 1959 history of Jehovah's Witnesses was called "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" and we even had a "Divine Purpose District Assembly" in 1974, where the problem with the words "Divine Plan" was discussed further. As Melinda pointed out, this was a "flash of light" per the 1995 Watchtower. Based on its history within the organization, however, I think it was merely deflected light, that took about 50 light years to get back to us.
  20. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to bruceq in TRUMP WARNS RUSSIA OVER JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES This is fake news BEWARE   
    Why are you bashing me? The heading says "fake news" which I changed a few minutes after I posted it to inform people of the truth. Are we not all brothers and sisters here. Well most of us. Anyway please show love for it is the perfect bond of union.
    Fine I will go elsewhere since there are many apostates here anyway and we are not suppose to associate with them. Goodbye
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in TRUMP WARNS RUSSIA OVER JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES This is fake news BEWARE   
    @bruceq  "Has this been flagged as fake news?" Remember my comment soon after the original post was made? You acted very quickly to affirm this and well done to you.
    I for one found all your press postings re background on the Russian trial of our brothers very useful and informative, especially those about Alexander Dvorkin's activity.
    Such an emotive and contraversial a subject as that regarding the treatment of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia is bound to draw all sorts of attention from friend and foe alike. This will of course include that of the fake news mongers, who exploit the heightened interest in a sort of duping excercise that ranges in level from that of schoolboy prank to downright slanderous lies.
    Here's an example of a photo used in fake news that duped many to believe it was a picture of our 2017 Russian mail campaign letters, when in fact it pictures a completely unrelated and much earlier mail out as the context reveals!
    Don't let a few misunderstood remarks cause you to take offence and withdraw your contribution to the Forum!

  22. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from TheWorldNewsOrg in Interesting Paradox   
    Noticed that Amazon wasn't there because they have inventory, not just of books now, but many items, and are getting their hooks into more brick-and-mortar initiatives -- and even perishable produce!
    Netflix wants to turn to wholly-owned content and is not only buying studio content to brand as "Netflix" but is already effectively hiring studios.
    Facebook has been looking into media creation and ownership as a supposed barrier against fake news.
    Skype and WeChat are NOT the world's largest phone companies, yet.
    Apple and Google are extremely successful App vendors.
    Uber and AirBnB will continue to gain market share by breaking the law.
    Still, I agree with the concept of the chart, and I think it's great!
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from OtherSheep in BREAKING NEWS - The Bethel Central will be closed and the 395 local religious organizations will be dissolved ;-(   
    Rough translation, based partly on Google:
     
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Jehovah and the Spider   
    Is this a "composite story", made up from fragments of real life experiences, or a "teaching story" made up completely from someone's imagination?
    If it is real, it should have a date, a place, details of the person, a name, and other details to corroborate it's authenticity.
    Where did this story come from?
    Years ago (circa 1969) there was a notice on Kingdom Hall bulletin boards, and I saw them in both Richmond, Virginia, and a year later in Hollywood, California, that astronomers had via "calculations" determined that the Sun had actually stood still for a day during the times of ancient Israel ... and Brothers picked up on it, and gave talks citing this reference ... everyone (but me) that I met in the Truth KNEW this to be true.
    It wasn't.
    Fairie Tales told by the easily deluded or fanciful need to be disregarded ..
    Fairie Tales told by genuine Fairies can be given more credence..
    In the 7th Grade I learned that "stories" need to have "Who, What, When, Where, How Much, and sometimes Why?" to be credible, otherwise we make ourselves into complete fools .... where the credibility gap is equaled by the gullibility fill.
    Choose !!!
    I know Bro. Elumbaugh who used to be in our Circuit, and his homespun humor often includes stories like this, which I enjoyed, as homespun stories .... but the average person does not understand this .. and it is NECESSARY .. IF ... Is this a "composite story", made up from fragments of real life experiences, or a "teaching story" made up completely from someone's imagination .. IT IS CLEARLY IDENTIFIED AS TO BEING A PARABLE.
    In practice, this is almost NEVER done.
    That is why it is presented here as fact ... and without backup .. that is extremely embarrassing to have to see.
     
    NOTE:  Eight days ago JW Insider responded to my posting on the Archive calendar board as follows:
    " There will be Witnesses who think it's true, and that it's about a JW.
    It's not, of course. It was once supposed to be about a soldier ("Robert the Bruce") in Scotland back in the 1300's. http://www.wrensworld.com/s... and that story ended: "Where God is, a spider's web is as a stone wall. Where God is not, a stone wall is as a spider's web."
    It was also attributed to a Midrash about King David a couple thousand years prior to that: http://www.azamra.org/Bible...
    "One Midrash tells that David was actually saved by a . . . web-spinning spider. . . . He discovered the benefits of spiders' webs when once forced to hide in a cave, over the entrance to which a spider spun a web, making those searching for David assume he could not have entered the cave."
    It's called a traditional Jewish tale here, too: http://www.beliefnet.com/lo...
    In 18th and 19th century book collecting expeditions I've picked up old books called "Ideas for Sermons" and have learned that a lot of Circuit Overseers have likely seen such books before I did.
    I remember the "Joshua" astronomy discovery, too. And it also made it onto our bulletin board. You weren't the only one to question it. But it stayed up long after it was questioned."

    .
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from OtherSheep in Russian ban on JW in the light of prophecy   
    As a Witness, I am happy that our accepted understanding of Scripture has been made so relevant for our day from the perspective of morality and lifestyle, and in so many other practical ways. The worldwide brotherhood creates the moral support we need to remain encouraged and faithful in a world that is so full of stress. We avoid unnecessary involvement in the world's affairs, refuse to take sides in divisive politics and wars. We shun the idolatry of national symbols and worldly ideologies. We shun the materialistic viewpoint of the world, and related philosophies, and the "showy display of one's possessions."
    (1 John 2:15-17) 15 Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life* [NWT footnote: "the bragging about one's possessions"] —does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.
    The organization we are associated with has laid the foundation for one of the most effective and widespread preaching and teaching programs in the entire world, and we also are privileged to participate in it. The spirit of active giving and self-sacrifice creates a climate of happiness and closeness with one another. We learn to get along with a varied cross-section of brothers and sisters from anywhere in the world, and from many walks of life.
    I believe we embody a twenty-first century version of that first-century movement in a way that makes the same issues we find in the Greek Scriptures come alive in our own congregations. Yes, some of those issues are about imperfections and flaws, one of them being the constant misunderstandings about the "last days" and the "time of the end." Finally, Paul, said that 'we don't need anything to be written to us about the times and seasons because it's coming without warning; therefore we need to be ready at all times.'
    (1 Thessalonians 5:1-11) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. . . . 6 So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses. . . . 11 Therefore, keep encouraging one another and building one another up, just as you are in fact doing.
    I take that quite literally. We need NOTHING to be written to us about chronology, about the times and seasons, because Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. There is no advance warning of any kind.
    I think this is why it's actually very true that we've never gotten anything correct (yet) when trying to make a prediction based on prophecy. There are a couple of apparent exceptions to the rule, similar to the ones you mentioned, and I'd like to try to address them in the next post. But the rule remains true, even when you get one or two things right out of nearly 100 attempts to put a time limit on events, or predict that events will happen within a certain time frame, or even try to tie a Biblical event to a particular entity in our current time frame.
    Our track record on prophecy does indicate that we really know nothing about prophecy before a fulfillment takes place. In fact, even when the "fulfillment" has taken place, we are also still guessing, because almost all the "fulfillments" we claim to have known about have also been changed over time, in our publications' explanations. All we have, therefore, are the latest guesses ("private interpretations" to borrow a phrase from 2 Peter 1:20) of what prophecies in our day might mean, or might have meant. The vast majority of these predictions have already been dropped, and the vast majority of applications we have made from prophecy and prophetic drama have also been dropped or changed significantly. This goes for EVERYTHING, even things as simple as the wheat and the weeds, the faithful and discreet slave, the sheep and the goats, the prodigal son, and the meaning of various parables about the Kingdom of God.
    Based on all the evidence so far, we would have to admit that we have never had a clue about the application of specific future events. And that's the way it should be. We need nothing to be written to us about events related to the times and seasons.
    We should concern ourselves with being witnesses for the good news about Jesus, encouraging others and being the kind of persons we ought to be. We do this rather than join the stress and/or excitement of worrying about:
    whether "World War III" is imminent, or worldwide persecution is imminent, or concerns about who is the "king of the north," or who and where is "Gog of the land of Magog," or whether the UN is getting ready to make a move against religion. None of those things need concern us. We trust in Jehovah and throw our burden on him.
    I believe it is true, then, that Jesus already told us what we need to know about the time of the end. To that point, I will also respond to something that Eoin said about Amos 3:7.
    If Paul says there is nothing more to reveal about this matter, I think we should believe him. It appears, from our experience so far at least, that the gift of "prophecy" may have already been done away with.
    (1 Corinthians 13:8) . . .But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with. . .
    The prophecy that Jesus gave about the time of the end, and various other references to the end for which we are still awaiting fulfillment, should be sufficient for us. Anything more that Jehovah would reveal of "his confidential matter to his servants the prophets" would be the equivalent of giving prior knowledge. It would become, in effect, an additional sign of the imminence of the end. How would one square that with the words of Jesus?
    (Matthew 24:36-42) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. . . . 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. . . . 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.
    (Acts 1:7) 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.
    Also of possible interest:
    (Daniel 8:23-25) 23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. 24 His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. 25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security* [NWT footnote adds: or possibly, "and without warning"] he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.
    The effectiveness of the "fierce-looking king" and his ability to bring even many mighty and holy ones to ruin, is through cunning and deception, during a time of peace and security. This does not imply any advance warning, but something that can go on over a potentially long period of time, up until a stand is taken against the Prince of princes. It's our responsibility not to be deceived by 'the ruler of this world' or any of the powers of this system of things, but to remain no part of the world, on the lookout not to get bogged down in the things of this world. But it may also mean that our watchfulness should be all the greater when things seem to be going well for us, without hindrance, because that's the easiest time become like the unfaithful slave who says 'my master is delaying.' Yet most of us seem to raise the alert levels only when those portions of the world that we pay attention to are the most stressed.
    (Galatians 6:9, 10) 9 So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due season we shall reap if we do not tire out. 10 Really, then, as long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith.
    (2 Timothy 4:1-5) . . .I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is destined to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his kingdom, 2 preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, suffer evil, do [the] work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.
    During times of stress and fear, we are quick to wonder what end-time prophecy is being fulfilled. Yet during a "favorable season," a time when people are enjoying relative peace and security, that's when another very important prophecy is being fulfilled: the prophecy of 2 Tim 4:3, for example, about when people will want to have their ears tickled with false stories. The Watch Tower publications say that this type of thing began to happen especially after the apostles died out around the year 100 C.E. During all these years, people were susceptible to false stories because during times of relative peace and security, it appeared the master was delaying and the temptation therefore presents itself to take advantage. People would ridicule the prophecy about Jesus' parousia, manifestation and kingdom and say that all things are continuing as they always were.
    (2 Peter 3:1-18) . . . Beloved ones, this is now the second letter I am writing you in which, as in my first one, I am stirring up your clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, 2 that you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles. 3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” . . . 10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, . . .11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah,. . . 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell. 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, . . . 17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness.
    So, from verse  17, we already have "this advance knowledge," the knowledge that Jehovah's day will come as a thief. We need nothing more to written to us about it. People are therefore saying that all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation's beginning. This is apparently what Jesus was saying, too, when the apostles asked him for a sign and, instead of giving them a sign, he said:
    (Matthew 24:4-8, 23, 27) . . .“Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. . . . 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. . . . signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned you. 26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be.
    Instead of a sign or signs to watch out for, we know that the presence comes suddenly, like lightning. if anyone tells us there are signs, or that Jesus is already present somewhere, we are not to believe it. We have been forewarned.
    I know this isn't the way we usually read Matthew 24, but it's the way that seems to make the most sense with all the rest of the scriptures that comment on it. It's one of the most important prophecies we use when referring to this particular part of the last days we find ourselves in. Yet, it tells us not to get concerned about things we might have thought were signs of the end, because the end could happen at any time, with or without the things we tend to think of as "signs." Wars and reports of wars and persecution and preaching would continue to happen during the last days, but the end is not yet. Since the end could still happen at any time, this must mean only that these are not "signs" of the end.
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